3868 departed Chester le Street fully loaded (on both decks) on the X21 for Newcastle at 10.28. The following Pronto at 10.58 came into to Chester le Street with a good loading.
I hope GNE are taking these loadings in to account when they allocate the newer buses to the X21.

(23 Nov 2013, 11:47 am)GuyParkRoyal wrote I hope GNE are taking these loadings in to account when they allocate the newer buses to the X21.

What would you allocate B9s if you had a choice?

While I do think that the "Pronto" X21 can fill up a double decker quite easily, this tends to be between Newcastle and Durham, and I doubt many of these passengers are fare paying customers. There are also times of day when I think all the X21 can justify is a single decker.

I admit that Go North East do need to consider the total number of passengers when deciding to 'upgrade' a service, but I think it was a pretty big push to give the X21 Citaros, nevermind being able to justify B9s.

(23 Nov 2013, 11:53 am)Dan wrote What would you allocate B9s if you had a choice?

While I do think that the "Pronto" X21 can fill up a double decker quite easily, this tends to be between Newcastle and Durham, and I doubt many of these passengers are fare paying customers. There are also times of day when I think all the X21 can justify is a single decker.

I admit that Go North East do need to consider the total number of passengers when deciding to 'upgrade' a service, but I think it was a pretty big push to give the X21 Citaros, nevermind being able to justify B9s.

I think Citaro's are a pretty good fit. Every service is busy at peak (especially the 9.30am rush Monday - Friday) but those with DD and those upgraded tend to stay busy all day throughout the route. From experience I've not seen that with the X21. Its similar to the X22 and you'd wonder why that has a DD operation (obviously interworking helps) but if you see that service early morning or weekend, its generally rammed especially at Christmas

You are never going to get the perfect vehicle allocation. Despite it being every 7 minutes, you go to Eldon Square at rush hour and you'll see huge queues for the Angel and deckers getting filled up run after run and people complaining. But there's little GNE can do about it

(23 Nov 2013, 12:56 pm)gtomlinson wrote I think Citaro's are a pretty good fit. Every service is busy at peak (especially the 9.30am rush Monday - Friday) but those with DD and those upgraded tend to stay busy all day throughout the route. From experience I've not seen that with the X21. Its similar to the X22 and you'd wonder why that has a DD operation (obviously interworking helps) but if you see that service early morning or weekend, its generally rammed especially at Christmas

You are never going to get the perfect vehicle allocation. Despite it being every 7 minutes, you go to Eldon Square at rush hour and you'll see huge queues for the Angel and deckers getting filled up run after run and people complaining. But there's little GNE can do about it

That's the thing every service can be quiet/busy it just all depends, I've seen angel's arrive/depart its little standing room and I've also seen the, practically empty! It's the same with every service really.

(23 Nov 2013, 11:53 am)Dan wrote What would you allocate B9s if you had a choice?

While I do think that the "Pronto" X21 can fill up a double decker quite easily, this tends to be between Newcastle and Durham, and I doubt many of these passengers are fare paying customers. There are also times of day when I think all the X21 can justify is a single decker.

I admit that Go North East do need to consider the total number of passengers when deciding to 'upgrade' a service, but I think it was a pretty big push to give the X21 Citaros, nevermind being able to justify B9s.

I agree that it is the Durham to Newcastle sector that is busy on the X21. Citaros are a good fit for this route and will be capable of the average weekday loadings. From what I have seen in Chester le Street today with X21 deckers running full a solution might be a Saturday short run (Durham to Newcastle) X21 shoppers service from say 1000 to 1700. I will think about that one and come back on the service suggestions thread.

(23 Nov 2013, 1:07 pm)CatsFast101 wrote That's the thing every service can be quiet/busy it just all depends, I've seen angel's arrive/depart its little standing room and I've also seen the, practically empty! It's the same with every service really.

They need a bus that copes with demand when it gets busy and doesn't cost the earth in fuel when running around with lots of spare seats.

Or, find out where everyone getting on the 21's start their journey from initially/end it on a night (cos 99.99% of them don't live on Chester, Birtley or Low Fell High Streets) and see if there is a demand to run the service elsewhere or another one in addition to the 21.

It is all well and good having a 21 every few minutes, but if an alternative is looked at - even at peaks, then it may benefit everyone.

It is the same with the x1.
With the numbers getting on/off at the Galleries, I wonder if there would be justification to find out where in Washington they come from and if viable, stick another Newcastle service on - but run it via the villages showing the highest trends in travelling into Newcastle.

Just heard the new GNE ad on real radio. Quote that interested me - "Over 95% of passengers love traveling with us". Really? Love is a strong word...

(23 Nov 2013, 3:00 pm)andreos1 wrote They need a bus that copes with demand when it gets busy and doesn't cost the earth in fuel when running around with lots of spare seats.

Or, find out where everyone getting on the 21's start their journey from initially/end it on a night (cos 99.99% of them don't live on Chester, Birtley or Low Fell High Streets) and see if there is a demand to run the service elsewhere or another one in addition to the 21.

It is all well and good having a 21 every few minutes, but if an alternative is looked at - even at peaks, then it may benefit everyone.

It is the same with the x1.
With the numbers getting on/off at the Galleries, I wonder if there would be justification to find out where in Washington they come from and if viable, stick another Newcastle service on - but run it via the villages showing the highest trends in travelling into Newcastle.

GNE already can track customers who uses the keycard, GNE can track the person when there board the bus and also when the passenger boards then next bus on their journey etc....

(23 Nov 2013, 3:27 pm)cbma06 wrote GNE already can track customers who uses the keycard, GNE can track the person when there board the bus and also when the passenger boards then next bus on their journey etc....

Yeah they do, but do all customers have a Key Card?
Do all drivers record paper tickets on the machine?

Even if every single passenger had a key card, there is a difference between collecting the data and also analysing it to ensure passengers are adequetly catered for.

Tesco identify trends well with their clubcard - bus operators need to up their game though.

Having 10 buses an hour through the Galleries from Newcastle doesn't help the people having to change buses, pay extra or walk the final few miles home.
Just as an example, but if 60 people an hour (10 per bus and probably a realistic figure) transfer between an x1 and 4 at the Galleries with 90% of them getting on/off between Glebe and Fatfield, is there an argument to say there should be a bus between Fatfield and Newcastle?
Going off those figures, the demand is there for that extra bus and (getting back to the main point raised earlier) it would ease pressure on the x1 too.

I would love to know why GNE decided to reduce the services along Durham Road between Low Fell and Newcastle.
25 years ago, there was a more frequent service, ultimately serving a range of places - yet they cancelled them all, pushing everyone onto a 21 and now they struggle to cope with loads during peak times.

(23 Nov 2013, 3:46 pm)andreos1 wrote Yeah they do, but do all customers have a Key Card?
Tesco identify trends well with their clubcard - bus operators need to up their game though.

How do you know that bus operators do not identify trends with smartcard usage - not everyone who shops in Tesco has a clubcard either.

(23 Nov 2013, 4:04 pm)citaro5284 wrote How do you know that bus operators do not identify trends with smartcard usage - not everyone who shops in Tesco has a clubcard either.

You are right, not everyone has a clubcard.
I would put a bet that the uptake of clubcards compared to key cards is greater though (based on a sample percentage).

Even if key card holders do have their travel patterns analysed, I am guessing the uptake compared to actual passenger numbers carried, that any analysis would be distorted, vague or at the very least not suitable for purpose.

(23 Nov 2013, 3:46 pm)andreos1 wrote Yeah they do, but do all customers have a Key Card?
Do all drivers record paper tickets on the machine?

Even if every single passenger had a key card, there is a difference between collecting the data and also analysing it to ensure passengers are adequetly catered for.

Tesco identify trends well with their clubcard - bus operators need to up their game though.

Having 10 buses an hour through the Galleries from Newcastle doesn't help the people having to change buses, pay extra or walk the final few miles home.
Just as an example, but if 60 people an hour (10 per bus and probably a realistic figure) transfer between an x1 and 4 at the Galleries with 90% of them getting on/off between Glebe and Fatfield, is there an argument to say there should be a bus between Fatfield and Newcastle?
Going off those figures, the demand is there for that extra bus and (getting back to the main point raised earlier) it would ease pressure on the x1 too.

I don't have a keycard, as I dont believe GNE should be using the data for their own needs for profit and also charging their customers for a £5 replacing fee.

GNE wants passengers to use their connecting bus services to get to your destination, (example: GNE will not put on a Fatfield to Newcastle direct service as theres an 10 minute service 4 to Galleries then a 10 minute X1 from Galleries to Newcastle) should be glad that these to connecting bus services runs on a 10 minute frequency, theres a lot of passengers that don't have these sort of 10 minute frequencies and have to relay on an hour service or half hourly service.

GNE have streamlined there bus services as all the bus companies have to maximise their profits. These days if you use the bus then you have to go to your destination when the bus company says so by the timetable, its not like 30 years ago when you be able to board a bus service when you like and go where you like.

(23 Nov 2013, 4:10 pm)cbma06 wrote I don't have a keycard, as I dont believe GNE should be using the data for their own needs for profit and also charging their customers for a £5 replacing fee.

GNE wants passengers to use their connecting bus services to get to your destination, (example: GNE will not put on a Fatfield to Newcastle direct service as theres an 10 minute service 4 to Galleries then a 10 minute X1 from Galleries to Newcastle) should be glad that these to connecting bus services runs on a 10 minute frequency, theres a lot of passengers that don't have these sort of 10 minute frequencies and have to relay on an hour service or half hourly service.

GNE have streamlined there bus services as all the bus companies have to maximise their profits. These days if you use the bus then you have to go to your destination when the bus company says so by the timetable, its not like 30 years ago when you be able to board a bus service when you like and go where you like.

I agree with you on each and every one of those points and it is because of the streamlining you mention, that passengers are crowded onto buses and are forced to hang around waiting for connections.

There was always a frequent service between the Galleries and Newcastle.
By doing quick sums, there is 1 bus an hour extra now, than there was 25 years ago.
Except 25 years ago, passengers had a choice - get the first bus and change, or wait 15mins and get a bus directly to the end of their street.

(23 Nov 2013, 3:46 pm)andreos1 wrote Yeah they do, but do all customers have a Key Card?
Do all drivers record paper tickets on the machine?

Even if every single passenger had a key card, there is a difference between collecting the data and also analysing it to ensure passengers are adequetly catered for.

Tesco identify trends well with their clubcard - bus operators need to up their game though.

Having 10 buses an hour through the Galleries from Newcastle doesn't help the people having to change buses, pay extra or walk the final few miles home.
Just as an example, but if 60 people an hour (10 per bus and probably a realistic figure) transfer between an x1 and 4 at the Galleries with 90% of them getting on/off between Glebe and Fatfield, is there an argument to say there should be a bus between Fatfield and Newcastle?
Going off those figures, the demand is there for that extra bus and (getting back to the main point raised earlier) it would ease pressure on the x1 too.

I would love to know why GNE decided to reduce the services along Durham Road between Low Fell and Newcastle.
25 years ago, there was a more frequent service, ultimately serving a range of places - yet they cancelled them all, pushing everyone onto a 21 and now they struggle to cope with loads during peak times.

Because GNE wanted to streamline there bus services as their did in other areas of the north east, putting profits before passengers again.

off genda but revelant on this message:

If the QCS doesn't go ahead then the bus services would be getting worse years to come as more and more commercial bus services are not making enough profits for the bus companies and their shareholders, and the councils cant keep securing bus services because the bus company decided its not commercial for them and its the passengers that are being left out without a bus service on evenings etc...

(23 Nov 2013, 4:16 pm)cbma06 wrote Because GNE wanted to streamline there bus services as their did in other areas of the north east, putting profits before passengers again.

off genda but revelant on this message:

If the QCS doesn't go ahead then the bus services would be getting worse years to come as more and more commercial bus services are not making enough profits for the bus companies and their shareholders, and the councils cant keep securing bus services because the bus company decided its not commercial for them and its the passengers that are being left out without a bus service on evenings etc...

No matter how much wi-fi is thrown at us or how frequent services are in some areas - people want a bus that goes from a-b cheaply.
Not a-c and then to b and costing a fortune for the privalege.

Operators analysing journey patterns by looking at data on the small percentage of key cards in use, AFTER services were streamlined whilst chasing profits and appeasing shareholders, is not the best way to run a business.
Customers will become more unhappy than they already are, even if they apparently 'love' GNE.

(23 Nov 2013, 2:13 pm)Liam wrote The three latest Solo SRs for the "Venture" network to arrive are:

NL63 XZP
(No photo)

NL63 XZR

NL63 XZS


This means that six have now arrived.

I wouldn't mind seeing these for Peterlee depot in OK WAY livery, be more comfortable on the 202,259,260 rotation.

Venture doesn't have any competion with other bus companies, should of been for Peterlee then there would draw passengers from Arriva in the East Durham area.

(23 Nov 2013, 4:35 pm)andreos1 wrote No matter how much wi-fi is thrown at us or how frequent services are in some areas - people want a bus that goes from a-b cheaply.
Not a-c and then to b and costing a fortune for the privalege.

Operators analysing journey patterns by looking at data on the small percentage of key cards in use, AFTER services were streamlined whilst chasing profits and appeasing shareholders, is not the best way to run a business.
Customers will become more unhappy than they already are, even if they apparently 'love' GNE.

Does Wi-Fi only work when the interior lights are on?

(22 Nov 2013, 7:20 pm)andreos1 wrote Just jumping in (and jumping straight back out) of this Northern versus GNE vinyls debate - but when the Northern brand was launched, it was GNE in their marketing/pr blurb who explained that Northern was a recognised brand, passengers referred to GNE as 'The Northern' etc.

So if they are doing away with it, and rebranding everything in red as GNE, is this another change of tact/contradiction/back tracking from the powers that be at GNE/Northern towers?

It's just change for change's sake. It's almost universally known as "Northern", although quite often people refer to some of the brands, "Angel", "Red Arrows", "Coaster" and "OK" particularly, but never heard "Fab 56" or "Connections 4". However it's not often called " Go North East" which I've always thought weak and wishy-washy. I think almost all routes should have their own brand, with red "Northern" vehicles used as spares, ideally with the former large, gold, underlined "NORTHERN" on the side. Yes, I know I'm an old fart, but I know several younger people who agree. Combine mainly modern brands, plus a few rejuvenated traditional names like OK and Venture plus the red Northern buses as spares. Then let's have a bit of stability for a year or two without the constant chopping and changing of routes, timetables and brands.

(23 Nov 2013, 4:35 pm)andreos1 wrote people want a bus that goes from a-b cheaply.
Not a-c and then to b and costing a fortune for the privilege.

Passenger Focus says Go Ahead smartcards are better value for money than other tickets.

http://www.go-ahead.com/media/news/2013n...11-11.aspx

(23 Nov 2013, 5:14 pm)cbma06 wrote Does Wi-Fi only work when the interior lights are on?

No idea.
I have unlimited data, so never use it - although when I have tried to get on the wi-fi just out of curiosity more than anything, it has never worked.

Did pick up a connection when travelling in a car behind the x1 once though.

(23 Nov 2013, 5:27 pm)citaro5284 wrote Passenger Focus says Go Ahead smartcards are better value for money than other tickets.

http://www.go-ahead.com/media/news/2013n...11-11.aspx

Have I read it wrong, but is that about prices in Oxford or in the North East?
If it can be used across a wide area on a range of operators - then I could be 'satisfied' like 3 in 4 of passengers in Oxford are.

Remember the Tyne & Wear ticket?
Now that was excellent value for money!

(23 Nov 2013, 5:14 pm)cbma06 wrote Does Wi-Fi only work when the interior lights are on?

Doesn't seem to work on any of the new buses. Two 58s I travelled on yesterday and I had the same problem as the Connections 4.

(23 Nov 2013, 5:30 pm)andreos1 wrote Have I read it wrong, but is that about prices in Oxford or in the North East?
If it can be used across a wide area on a range of operators - then I could be 'satisfied' like 3 in 4 of passengers in Oxford are.

Remember the Tyne & Wear ticket?
Now that was excellent value for money!

Go Ahead in Oxford, Brighton, etc operate in a considerably different environment than Northern do, and what would be seen as a reasonable fare in Oxford isn't appropriate here - unfortunately Northern seem to think it is.

(23 Nov 2013, 6:24 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote Go Ahead in Oxford, Brighton, etc operate in a considerably different environment than Northern do, and what would be seen as a reasonable fare in Oxford isn't appropriate here - unfortunately Northern seem to think it is.

Northern??

But I bet fares wouldn't be any cheaper under the Quality Contract. Whilst I think Northern's single fares are excessive, and especially if you have to do two buses, I don't think Buzzfare day tickets, which I use as I'm not yet an old enough fart to have an OAP pass, are too bad.

(23 Nov 2013, 6:15 pm)aureolin wrote Doesn't seem to work on any of the new buses. Two 58s I travelled on yesterday and I had the same problem as the Connections 4.

There was a Drifter at Saltmeadows this week, so I'm guessing it's being looked at.

(23 Nov 2013, 6:37 pm)Dan wrote There was a Drifter at Saltmeadows this week, so I'm guessing it's being looked at.

I believe it is 5375 which was sent there after being taken out service yesterday morning at Park Lane, as I seen it later in the Afternoon as I passed Saltmeadows on the 94 after taking a few photos at Heworth

Possible delays to the x66 for a period of time along Centrelink due to an enforced reduction in the speed limit www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-25068828

Never seen park lane so quiet... even for a sunday, its normally quite busy

(24 Nov 2013, 9:58 am)andreos1 wrote Possible delays to the x66 for a period of time along Centrelink due to an enforced reduction in the speed limit www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-25068828

This happened last year and the speed limit was entirely ignored.