Dear All,

We're currently looking at potential changes of the forum structure, with the aims to both modernise how we work and increase participation in the discussion we have across the site. The structure has remained pretty constant since day one, and now is perhaps the time to look at how we are doing things.

Present Setup

• Our three main bus operators in the region have their own parent forum, which then have three sub forums each. 
  
• The three sub forums for each operator are 'Latest News & Discussion', 'Rare & Odd Workings' and 'Other Discussion'. 
  
• With exception of the 'Other Discussion' forum, each sub forum has a monthly thread for discussion, with no other threads being permitted.
  

Proposed Setup

• Our three main bus operators in the region would continue to have their own parent forum, BUT;
  
• The three sub forums will be REMOVED, and the present system of monthly discussion threads will CEASE to exist.
  
• Members will be entitled to create their own threads in the operator's parent forum, based on the topic of discussion, e.g. "New Sapphire livery" or "Gas bus repaints"
  

Other parts of the forum would remain unchanged for now, with a view of us reviewing how this proposed setup would work.

Could you please indicate whether you're for or against this idea, using the poll above, and also let us have any feedback by midnight on Saturday 25th November? 

Regards,
Adrian

Started to write out a response and the battery ran out of juice...

Whilst the current format may not help flowing conversations and contributors feel as though they are going off topic, I think it helps the forum remain in 'good nick', uniform and ensures a consistency that other forums don't have.

I feel like a move back to user generated threads may see a lot more bitching occur.
Comments such as 'why have you posted that here, when there is already conversation there?'; 'What is the point of you posting that, when it's already posted' etc etc.
Appreciate we may see it now and again in the current style, but those types of comments appeared quite a bit in the past and I feel they would make a return, if the forum was to return to the user generated threads again.

I predict duplication (more than now) and repeated questions (more than now).

Wouldnt this end up with ever ending sub forums starting up?, most of the rare and odd sub forums messages are pointless and waste of time, for the latest news forum it's what it says on the tin, same as service changes forum, all am saying is that it's going to be out of control with sub forums starting up and making a mess, didn't the sub forums for latest, odd etc... started up in the first place due to sub forums getting out of control in the first place?


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(22 Nov 2017, 9:09 pm)cbma06 wrote Wouldnt this end up with ever ending sub forums starting up?, most of the rare and odd sub forums messages are pointless and waste of time, for the latest news forum it's what it says on the tin, same as service changes forum, all am saying is that it's going to be out of control with sub forums starting up and making a mess, didn't the sub forums for latest, odd etc... started up in the first place due to sub forums getting out of control in the first place?


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My own opinion, and other have raised it too with me, is that they're exactly that - a pointless waste of time. We want threads created on the forum that generate discussion, and having an endless list of "X is on Y today" serves no purpose to anyone. But perhaps someone creating a thread about reliability of Stagecoach's Omnilinks, for example, would be?

Nobody can create sub forums but admins, and our view would be one forum for each Go North East, Arriva NE, and Stagecoach NE - no sub forums to that, and the rest of the forum would remain as is.

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(22 Nov 2017, 8:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote Started to write out a response and the battery ran out of juice...

Whilst the current format may not help flowing conversations and contributors feel as though they are going off topic, I think it helps the forum remain in 'good nick', uniform and ensures a consistency that other forums don't have.

I feel like a move back to user generated threads may see a lot more bitching occur.
Comments such as 'why have you posted that here, when there is already conversation there?'; 'What is the point of you posting that, when it's already posted' etc etc.
Appreciate we may see it now and again in the current style, but those types of comments appeared quite a bit in the past and I feel they would make a return, if the forum was to return to the user generated threads again.

I predict duplication (more than now) and repeated questions (more than now).

On the other hand, it does create a problem in searching for something specific, and it is not very friendly for search engines.

I think bitching will happen with online communities regardless, but we'd have to be prepared for that and nip it in the bud, when it does occur. The forum guidelines are quite clear that moderation should be left to the moderators.

Got my words mixed up between "sub forums" and "threads" .
As long as the new threads are not a mile long.


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http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...379&page=2

http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=576

I've been having a scoot about to see what was said in previous thread discussions.

Will edit the post as I find more. Interesting to see comments from a few years back relating to the subject.

(22 Nov 2017, 9:19 pm)Adrian wrote My own opinion, and other have raised it too with me, is that they're exactly that - a pointless waste of time. We want threads created on the forum that generate discussion, and having an endless list of "X is on Y today" serves no purpose to anyone. But perhaps someone creating a thread about reliability of Stagecoach's Omnilinks, for example, would be?

Nobody can create sub forums but admins, and our view would be one forum for each Go North East, Arriva NE, and Stagecoach NE - no sub forums to that, and the rest of the forum would remain as is.

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On the other hand, it does create a problem in searching for something specific, and it is not very friendly for search engines.

I think bitching will happen with online communities regardless, but we'd have to be prepared for that and nip it in the bud, when it does occur. The forum guidelines are quite clear that moderation should be left to the moderators.

I can't see what these proposals would change in the future though.

In the 'Anything and Everything' thread, we see threads created and sometimes discussion follows, sometimes it doesn't.
Just like when the main three operators had user generated threads and to be honest, just like we see in the current format. Sometimes discussion happens, sometimes it doesn't.

I enjoyed some of the recent discussion on the 21 allocations and enjoyed the comments that spun off in the pricing thread.
The comment from some insiders (similar to the tone and style when discussing purple Solars or other ongoing comment like the X3, X93, covered windows etc), seemed to shut down those discussions.
If there wasn't that, then we saw the 'oh, I'm sick of discussion about x, y or z'.
Coincidently, I was reading an old thread today (April 13 maybe) and there was comment from yourself about being fed up about discussion on the X93 - even though it had its own thread).
So discussion stops...

Surely it is up to members to generate discussion and debate?
The ANE R&OW thread is painful to read at times. However the user generated content in there doesn't really lend itself to form a discussion. Is that down to the way the forum is designed or the abilities of certain members to engage or instigate meaningful discussion?

Unless we see Gtoms N Korea theory come true and mods extensively monitor content, those ANE R&OW posts will continue.

I think one positive with the proposed format is definitely that it will be far easier to find past discussions about one topic in particular.

Keep the current for me

The current format keeps it tidy, I think. Bigun, like some others, here, is fond of his lists (which is the only reason I post in rare and odd workings, though I know that some enthusiasts keep an eye open there for photo ops). Some discussions are going to go round and round in circles, regardless of the format and some people will always be annoyed with the mere allusion to certain topics. I cba with the fantasy bus allocations or service suggestions, on the whole, for example, do appreciate them having a set topic. The current monthly format for operator based discussion and annual format for order predictions makes it simpler to go back and find out, for example, what was being said about the Castles Express, around the time of its launch.

Happy with it the way it is. I just look at Unusual workings, Latest News, and Upcoming Service Changes for mainly Arriva and Stagecoach, plus minor operators news, and can easily ignore things I'm not interested in, such as service suggestions and order predictions.

It's not ideal having new threads each month but I'd sooner keep it as it is than have wholesale changes. Changing it will also make it difficult to search for historical items.

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(22 Nov 2017, 9:19 pm)Adrian wrote My own opinion, and other have raised it too with me, is that they're exactly that - a pointless waste of time. We want threads created on the forum that generate discussion, and having an endless list of "X is on Y today" serves no purpose to anyone. But perhaps someone creating a thread about reliability of Stagecoach's Omnilinks, for example, would be?

Nobody can create sub forums but admins, and our view would be one forum for each Go North East, Arriva NE, and Stagecoach NE - no sub forums to that, and the rest of the forum would remain as is.

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On the other hand, it does create a problem in searching for something specific, and it is not very friendly for search engines.

I think bitching will happen with online communities regardless, but we'd have to be prepared for that and nip it in the bud, when it does occur. The forum guidelines are quite clear that moderation should be left to the moderators.

I disagree that lists of 'x is on y' serve no purpose. I know the UEC newsletter news editor looks through for unusual workings to include.

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(23 Nov 2017, 9:02 am)BusLoverMum wrote The current format keeps it tidy, I think. Bigun, like some others, here, is fond of his lists (which is the only reason I post in rare and odd workings, though I know that some enthusiasts keep an eye open there for photo ops). Some discussions are going to go round and round in circles, regardless of the format and some people will always be annoyed with the mere allusion to certain topics. I cba with the fantasy bus allocations or service suggestions, on the whole, for example, do appreciate them having a set topic. The current monthly format for operator based discussion and annual format for order predictions makes it simpler to go back and find out, for example, what was being said about the Castles Express, around the time of its launch.

Yes I agree. I just come on for facts, not endless ramblings!

I say keep it the way it is. That way I can avoid some of the fantasy stuff in some of the threads.

Happy with the current format.
For me the most interesting and useful information is the rare and odd workings section, especially when posted in "real time". I have acted on posted info and dashed out after a particular bus.

Bring back the 'like' feature though that was removed ages ago! Saves having to send a reply just to say you agree with something.

(25 Nov 2017, 1:46 pm)Cock Robin wrote Bring back the 'like' feature though that was removed ages ago! Saves having to send a reply just to say you agree with something.

We can't - simply for the fact it encouraged people to make snotty remarks at each other in a bid to try and get a few "likes". As soon as it was removed, the amount of little jabs everyone was having at each other reduced.

Clearly this vote has been a landslide victory for keeping the forum as it is - thanks everyone for your feedback. We're always looking at ways to improve, so this has really helped.

A lot of comments have been made about the rare and odd working threads recently. Has anyone got any ideas on how we could improve these threads? The overwhelming majority of negative comments about these threads has been that a lot of what is noted as being rare/odd simply isn't either of those things. Do we overlook all of these posts, or do we look for a way in which we could provide guidance as to what is rare/odd? A lot of it is subject to opinion and what some people may think is unusual, others won't.

(25 Nov 2017, 1:46 pm)Cock Robin wrote Bring back the 'like' feature though that was removed ages ago! Saves having to send a reply just to say you agree with something.

I can understand why that was withdrawn - it wasn't being used in a positive way.

(25 Nov 2017, 1:53 pm)Dan wrote We can't - simply for the fact it encouraged people to make snotty remarks at each other in a bid to try and get a few "likes". As soon as it was removed, the amount of little jabs everyone was having at each other reduced.

Clearly this vote has been a landslide victory for keeping the forum as it is - thanks everyone for your feedback. We're always looking at ways to improve, so this has really helped.

A lot of comments have been made about the rare and odd working threads recently. Has anyone got any ideas on how we could improve these threads? The overwhelming majority of negative comments about these threads has been that a lot of what is noted as being rare/odd simply isn't either of those things. Do we overlook all of these posts, or do we look for a way in which we could provide guidance as to what is rare/odd? A lot of it is subject to opinion and what some people may think is unusual, others won't.

Apart from mods using their judgement or speaking to repeat offenders - could (just used as an example), each ANE region have a R&OW thread? So those who spot/looking for something on the Great North Road, don't have to wade through a stack of posts relating to Darlington?

(25 Nov 2017, 1:54 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I can understand why that was withdrawn - it wasn't being used in a positive way.

Like the R&OW thread, proper use could be encouraged. Improper use in turn discouraged.
Pro-active moderating and those abusing the system, get banned.
Or it could be that the majority of those abusing the function in the past, have been banned already or just don't bother with the forum these days...

North Korea is looking more and more promising these days...

(25 Nov 2017, 1:53 pm)Dan wrote A lot of comments have been made about the rare and odd working threads recently. Has anyone got any ideas on how we could improve these threads? The overwhelming majority of negative comments about these threads has been that a lot of what is noted as being rare/odd simply isn't either of those things. Do we overlook all of these posts, or do we look for a way in which we could provide guidance as to what is rare/odd? A lot of it is subject to opinion and what some people may think is unusual, others won't.

I think there needs to me more of an emphasis on the "rare" as, especially in the ANE thread, it has become a thread with every working that isn't 100% accurate, which I'd suggest is of little interest to the vast majority. 

I pay very little attention to the threads as I really couldn't care less if a standard Pulsar, for example, was covering for a branded example. Which is a shame, as these sort of posts could then make users miss out on genuinely interesting workings.

(25 Nov 2017, 2:26 pm)Andreos1 wrote Apart from mods using their judgement or speaking to repeat offenders - could (just used as an example), each ANE region have a R&OW thread? So those who spot/looking for something on the Great North Road, don't have to wade through a stack of posts relating to Darlington?

Like the R&OW thread, proper use could be encouraged. Improper use in turn discouraged.
Pro-active moderating and those abusing the system, get banned.
Or it could be that the majority of those abusing the function in the past, have been banned already or just don't bother with the forum these days...

Um, yes, the worst offenders do seem to have departed, don't they?

They're probably over on reddit, where they can downvote people they don't like, to their hearts' content.

The problems with the odd workings threads I feel is that we have classified anything that is out of the ordinary to be a 'odd' working, so even something of the slightest difference is considered odd on this forum (plus a few other sites/pages in relation to the North East bus scene).

I will admit, I am starting to tire of some of the odd workings that are getting reported in the R&OW threads, lots of them are buses with similarities to the usual vehicle type, eg same vehicle types or say a Frequenta branded bus but on the wrong Frequenta route and general stand ins for the regular allocations. Some of the things happen so often that I don't see them as rare as anymore, the Sapphire 7 has a Pulsar (either standard or MAX branded) on it just about everyday now, so I don't see the point in posting this anymore. Some enthusiasts like to talk to me about what odd workings they have spotted and photographed and now I'm just like "I don't care!" as very little is rare in my eyes now so I just couldn't care less anymore, about the only two workings I've encountered myself recently that have been rare in my eyes was 4517 on the X20 which is a Jesmond bus on a Ashington route and Sapphire 7 E400 7534 on the X21 the other night which hasn't happened before, think it's quite possibly around 7 years since the last Darlington based double decker appeared on this route (albeit it was the 21/31 the last time this happened, which was Volvo Olympian 7365).

My fear is if action is to start being taken about members posting stuff that may or may not be considered odd is it may lead to arguments, I have seen some of the comments in Facebook groups where someone has posted something like a Whey Aye Five O Omnicity on service 4 and the poster has said its an unusual appearance, then someone will comment and say "it's not rare, happens all the time!" and it leads with a back and forth argument that doesn't get resolved (they just get bored) and the same only ends happening again and again on a frequent basis.

I think for as long as the operators around here continue to allocate different buses to what should necessarily be allocated to the route (for whatever reasons), it's going to be a tricky one to fully resolve the matter I think, there's probably always going to be cases where people have different thoughts to what constitutes a rare or odd working.

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(25 Nov 2017, 9:42 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Um, yes, the worst offenders do seem to have departed, don't they?

They're probably over on reddit, where they can downvote people they don't like, to their hearts' content.

*flies straight over the top of my head*
Reddit?

Thinking out loud - is there a fine line between: Genuine debate, arguing for arguings sake, one upmanship, discussion, trolling, liking/disliking for the sake of it and sychopanchy?

On an online forum, I wonder if those fine lines can always be interpreted correctly.

Can't see the poll and also sorry for being a bit late, but I use the "rare and odd workings" thread daily. I like to know what I can go and take a picture of, and I'd feel a lot less inclined to browse the forums generally if this feature was removed in this format.

I can skip over boring non-news scenarios people post without problem. False workings don't appear often (that is to say people making up news that didn't take place), so I am happy with the format, if it's a little drab.

I agree with Matthew's comments also, but I have to say that if I assume there's a bunch of not very interesting reported workings, I take it as exactly that. Nothing happening. So I check back later.

Is there really an obstructive problem with this format all things considered?

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(22 Nov 2017, 8:21 pm)Adrian Under the current system there are multiple reports of max and sapphire bus on the incorrect boards. This is typical of Arriva where allocation is not a priority.These brands are a recent development which came after this layout began. wrote Dear All,

We're currently looking at potential changes of the forum structure, with the aims to both modernise how we work and increase participation in the discussion we have across the site. The structure has remained pretty constant since day one, and now is perhaps the time to look at how we are doing things.

Present Setup

• Our three main bus operators in the region have their own parent forum, which then have three sub forums each. 
  
• The three sub forums for each operator are 'Latest News & Discussion', 'Rare & Odd Workings' and 'Other Discussion'. 
  
• With exception of the 'Other Discussion' forum, each sub forum has a monthly thread for discussion, with no other threads being permitted.
  

Proposed Setup

• Our three main bus operators in the region would continue to have their own parent forum, BUT;
  
• The three sub forums will be REMOVED, and the present system of monthly discussion threads will CEASE to exist.
  
• Members will be entitled to create their own threads in the operator's parent forum, based on the topic of discussion, e.g. "New Sapphire livery" or "Gas bus repaints"
  

Other parts of the forum would remain unchanged for now, with a view of us reviewing how this proposed setup would work.

Could you please indicate whether you're for or against this idea, using the poll above, and also let us have any feedback by midnight on Saturday 25th November? 

Regards,
Adrian

(25 Nov 2017, 4:18 pm)MurdnunoC wrote North Korea is looking more and more promising these days...

Well I was going to post a laughing face but all I can see today is boxes with 'x's in! And "myadvertisements....." at the top!

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(27 Nov 2017, 10:46 am)Jamie M wrote Can't see the poll and also sorry for being a bit late, but I use the "rare and odd workings" thread daily. I like to know what I can go and take a picture of, and I'd feel a lot less inclined to browse the forums generally if this feature was removed in this format.

I can skip over boring non-news scenarios people post without problem. False workings don't appear often (that is to say people making up news that didn't take place), so I am happy with the format, if it's a little drab.

I agree with Matthew's comments also, but I have to say that if I assume there's a bunch of not very interesting reported workings, I take it as exactly that. Nothing happening. So I check back later.

Is there really an obstructive problem with this format all things considered?

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Sums up my feelings exactly.