(02 May 2018, 12:27 pm)Andreos1 Just been reading that. Studying the changes to the 4. Reduced in frequency.
(02 May 2018, 12:27 pm)Andreos1 Just been reading that. Studying the changes to the 4. Reduced in frequency.
(02 May 2018, 9:00 pm)Malarkey Every 12 Minutes like the 56, can't see 2 Minutes extra on the timetable and one bus less an hour making much difference with the 4 to be honest.
Easily lose that 2 Minutes with those who do a sprint off the Metro wanting to get on as the driver tries to pull away and the ongoing road works at Heworth.
(02 May 2018, 9:00 pm)Malarkey Every 12 Minutes like the 56, can't see 2 Minutes extra on the timetable and one bus less an hour making much difference with the 4 to be honest.
Easily lose that 2 Minutes with those who do a sprint off the Metro wanting to get on as the driver tries to pull away and the ongoing road works at Heworth.
(02 May 2018, 9:00 pm)Malarkey Every 12 Minutes like the 56, can't see 2 Minutes extra on the timetable and one bus less an hour making much difference with the 4 to be honest.
Easily lose that 2 Minutes with those who do a sprint off the Metro wanting to get on as the driver tries to pull away and the ongoing road works at Heworth.
(02 May 2018, 9:00 pm)Malarkey Every 12 Minutes like the 56, can't see 2 Minutes extra on the timetable and one bus less an hour making much difference with the 4 to be honest.
Easily lose that 2 Minutes with those who do a sprint off the Metro wanting to get on as the driver tries to pull away and the ongoing road works at Heworth.
(02 May 2018, 12:27 pm)Andreos1 Just been reading that. Studying the changes to the 4. Reduced in frequency.
(02 May 2018, 12:27 pm)Andreos1 Just been reading that. Studying the changes to the 4. Reduced in frequency.
(04 May 2018, 12:05 pm)Greg in Weardale What a ridiculous timetable, intervals mainly 11 min then one 10 min, different minutes past each hour. Another total cock up!
(04 May 2018, 12:05 pm)Greg in Weardale What a ridiculous timetable, intervals mainly 11 min then one 10 min, different minutes past each hour. Another total cock up!
(04 May 2018, 1:20 pm)Andreos1 It's painful. Really is.
Part of the 'joy' in going for a 4 under its current timetable, is not having a clue what time it will turn up or if the one you board is the one you went for or an earlier one running late.
Part of the 'joy' of the upcoming timetable will be trying to work out whether or not it's due at 20past, 24past, 17past or 21past - it being all dependent on which number on the clock the little hand is pointing to.
10:20, 11:24, 12:17 or 13:21
Currently, those runs are due at: 10:21, 11:21; 12:21 and 13:21.
Assuming passengers are after a connection to another service, plans may need to be made to accommodate the difference in the range of times. Possibly aiming for the 11:13 rather than the 11:24 (or 11:21 as it is currently).
(04 May 2018, 1:20 pm)Andreos1 It's painful. Really is.
Part of the 'joy' in going for a 4 under its current timetable, is not having a clue what time it will turn up or if the one you board is the one you went for or an earlier one running late.
Part of the 'joy' of the upcoming timetable will be trying to work out whether or not it's due at 20past, 24past, 17past or 21past - it being all dependent on which number on the clock the little hand is pointing to.
10:20, 11:24, 12:17 or 13:21
Currently, those runs are due at: 10:21, 11:21; 12:21 and 13:21.
Assuming passengers are after a connection to another service, plans may need to be made to accommodate the difference in the range of times. Possibly aiming for the 11:13 rather than the 11:24 (or 11:21 as it is currently).
(04 May 2018, 11:15 pm)deanmachine The 60 does the same thing. Busy routes such as these are hard to keep to time, so adding time in where it's needed I don't think is a bad thing. It's not hard for a passenger to look at the times on a bus stop and look at their watch/phone, hopefully now it might arrive closer to the time it says at the stop, so I don't see the problem.
(04 May 2018, 11:15 pm)deanmachine The 60 does the same thing. Busy routes such as these are hard to keep to time, so adding time in where it's needed I don't think is a bad thing. It's not hard for a passenger to look at the times on a bus stop and look at their watch/phone, hopefully now it might arrive closer to the time it says at the stop, so I don't see the problem.
(04 May 2018, 11:15 pm)deanmachine The 60 does the same thing. Busy routes such as these are hard to keep to time, so adding time in where it's needed I don't think is a bad thing. It's not hard for a passenger to look at the times on a bus stop and look at their watch/phone, hopefully now it might arrive closer to the time it says at the stop, so I don't see the problem.
(05 May 2018, 8:45 am)missedbus Surely a clock-face timetable is still better, though? Why not run it every 12 minutes instead of that absolute mess of a timetable? OK, it's a frequency reduction, but if it improves reliability with the same resources it's probably the best solution. There aren't the passengers around to justify putting more resources in.
(04 May 2018, 11:15 pm)deanmachine The 60 does the same thing. Busy routes such as these are hard to keep to time, so adding time in where it's needed I don't think is a bad thing. It's not hard for a passenger to look at the times on a bus stop and look at their watch/phone, hopefully now it might arrive closer to the time it says at the stop, so I don't see the problem.
(05 May 2018, 8:45 am)missedbus Surely a clock-face timetable is still better, though? Why not run it every 12 minutes instead of that absolute mess of a timetable? OK, it's a frequency reduction, but if it improves reliability with the same resources it's probably the best solution. There aren't the passengers around to justify putting more resources in.
(05 May 2018, 9:19 am)Andreos1 I was just about to comment about a clock face timetable. You beat me to it
7
I would argue a clock face timetable is not only attractive, but easy to understand, for effectively what is a turn up and go service.
Passengers are seeing a difference of up to 4 minutes with some of these changes. A 12 min frequency, would see a difference of two.
Assuming that the run which comes 4 mins later than scheduled now, is running a few minutes late, having been caught in works at Boundary Houses and Bournmoor or the queues at Fencehouses lights.
By the time it gets to the stop, it's now 6/7mins+ behind where it should be on the current time table.
It might as well be a PVR reduction.
I touched on connections before. The 60 doesn't market itself as that sort of service and didnt come about as a replacement (in part or not) for a direct bus to Newcastle.
Most of us know that 4/M1 not only replaced the 194, but the 21A and X3. Punters rely on the 4 to connect to the X1 for trips to work, school, college, shopping and hospital. The timetables were supposedly planned to connect with each other. It will be interesting to see how this shambles of a timetable and the X1 now work.
(05 May 2018, 9:19 am)Andreos1 I was just about to comment about a clock face timetable. You beat me to it
7
I would argue a clock face timetable is not only attractive, but easy to understand, for effectively what is a turn up and go service.
Passengers are seeing a difference of up to 4 minutes with some of these changes. A 12 min frequency, would see a difference of two.
Assuming that the run which comes 4 mins later than scheduled now, is running a few minutes late, having been caught in works at Boundary Houses and Bournmoor or the queues at Fencehouses lights.
By the time it gets to the stop, it's now 6/7mins+ behind where it should be on the current time table.
It might as well be a PVR reduction.
I touched on connections before. The 60 doesn't market itself as that sort of service and didnt come about as a replacement (in part or not) for a direct bus to Newcastle.
Most of us know that 4/M1 not only replaced the 194, but the 21A and X3. Punters rely on the 4 to connect to the X1 for trips to work, school, college, shopping and hospital. The timetables were supposedly planned to connect with each other. It will be interesting to see how this shambles of a timetable and the X1 now work.
5401, 5231, 6141, 6146, 3963, 3965 are currently all on "Castles Express" X21 service.
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(08 May 2018, 8:36 am)JamesDunkley 5401, 5231, 6141, 6146, 3963, 3965 are currently all on "Castles Express" X21 service.
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(08 May 2018, 8:36 am)JamesDunkley 5401, 5231, 6141, 6146, 3963, 3965 are currently all on "Castles Express" X21 service.
Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk
(08 May 2018, 8:36 am)JamesDunkley 5401, 5231, 6141, 6146, 3963, 3965 are currently all on "Castles Express" X21 service.
Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk
(08 May 2018, 8:56 pm)L469 YVK Why were most of the Streetdecks not on the Castles Express?Why swap?
Unless there has been a genuine traffic / timetable issue or they could only get inspected today (or a couple were in for inspection, 6 out of 7 2yo buses off the road is shocking.
On a serious note, if GNE decide to split the majority of 309/310 boards (not saying that they will), swapping 7x StreetDecks for 7x B9TLs would be a very wise move if the opportunity came about.
(08 May 2018, 8:56 pm)L469 YVK Why were most of the Streetdecks not on the Castles Express?Why swap?
Unless there has been a genuine traffic / timetable issue or they could only get inspected today (or a couple were in for inspection, 6 out of 7 2yo buses off the road is shocking.
On a serious note, if GNE decide to split the majority of 309/310 boards (not saying that they will), swapping 7x StreetDecks for 7x B9TLs would be a very wise move if the opportunity came about.
(09 May 2018, 7:15 am)Jamie M Why swap?
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(09 May 2018, 7:15 am)Jamie M Why swap?
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(09 May 2018, 12:00 pm)L469 YVK B9TLs on X21:
- More power
- Better performance & reliability
- Can do 55MPH or more on A1
- Same or slightly better fuel econony at higher speeds
- Better comfort
Streetdecks on 310:
- Improved fuel econony
- BSOG funding
- Above allowing extra bus to be added to PVR, extra driver and vans
- Could be used during evenings to save fuel and maybe lead to an increase in evening frequency
(09 May 2018, 12:00 pm)L469 YVK B9TLs on X21:
- More power
- Better performance & reliability
- Can do 55MPH or more on A1
- Same or slightly better fuel econony at higher speeds
- Better comfort
Streetdecks on 310:
- Improved fuel econony
- BSOG funding
- Above allowing extra bus to be added to PVR, extra driver and vans
- Could be used during evenings to save fuel and maybe lead to an increase in evening frequency
(09 May 2018, 3:18 pm)JM03 Why cobalt clippers when remember there also some on Fab fifty six, Tyne valley ten etc
(09 May 2018, 3:18 pm)JM03 Why cobalt clippers when remember there also some on Fab fifty six, Tyne valley ten etc
(09 May 2018, 5:50 pm)L469 YVK If 6301-07 ended up on either the Fab 56 or Tyne Valley Ten, that would result in a mixed allocation. But if most of the Cobalt Clipper boards were changed to become standalone (i.e not interworking), then technically there wouldn't be a mixed fleet allocation as most of the 309 journeys would be allocated B9TLs (6101-10 @ PVR 10) and most of the 310 & X39 journeys would be allocated StreetDecks (6301-07 @ PVR x7).
The only exception to the above would be during the evenings with some StreetDecks naturally changing into a 309 between 6-8pm if the timetable allowed (with some B9TLs finishing as a 310 then returning to the depot after the early evening in North Shields). This would then mean that most of the evening journeys on both services 309 and 310 would be operated by StreetDecks saving fuel as well as the extra BSOG claims.
On Sundays, the 4x last boards to return to the depot across both services (regardless if they continued to interwork on Sunday daytimes or remain standalone) would subsequently be allocated StreetDecks for the above reason.
In terms of spares, if any ex-London B9TLs become available, GNE could also do this:
Deptford:
- 1x corporate spare B9TL (6099)
- 1x 62 reg ex-London B9TL
Percy Main
- 1x corporate spare B9TL (6100)
- 1x 62 reg ex-London B9TL
(09 May 2018, 5:50 pm)L469 YVK If 6301-07 ended up on either the Fab 56 or Tyne Valley Ten, that would result in a mixed allocation. But if most of the Cobalt Clipper boards were changed to become standalone (i.e not interworking), then technically there wouldn't be a mixed fleet allocation as most of the 309 journeys would be allocated B9TLs (6101-10 @ PVR 10) and most of the 310 & X39 journeys would be allocated StreetDecks (6301-07 @ PVR x7).
The only exception to the above would be during the evenings with some StreetDecks naturally changing into a 309 between 6-8pm if the timetable allowed (with some B9TLs finishing as a 310 then returning to the depot after the early evening in North Shields). This would then mean that most of the evening journeys on both services 309 and 310 would be operated by StreetDecks saving fuel as well as the extra BSOG claims.
On Sundays, the 4x last boards to return to the depot across both services (regardless if they continued to interwork on Sunday daytimes or remain standalone) would subsequently be allocated StreetDecks for the above reason.
In terms of spares, if any ex-London B9TLs become available, GNE could also do this:
Deptford:
- 1x corporate spare B9TL (6099)
- 1x 62 reg ex-London B9TL
Percy Main
- 1x corporate spare B9TL (6100)
- 1x 62 reg ex-London B9TL
(09 May 2018, 6:49 pm)Jamie M You're missing an important detail that the X21 route is about 10 miles longer than the 309. That's a lot of extra BSOG payment over a day since it's done by Kilometre. It wouldn't change reliability since you're just shifting vehicles around similar work. The spare bus situation wouldn't also work in reality, since you would have to replace the current spare deckers with other spare deckers.
(09 May 2018, 6:49 pm)Jamie M You're missing an important detail that the X21 route is about 10 miles longer than the 309. That's a lot of extra BSOG payment over a day since it's done by Kilometre. It wouldn't change reliability since you're just shifting vehicles around similar work. The spare bus situation wouldn't also work in reality, since you would have to replace the current spare deckers with other spare deckers.
(09 May 2018, 6:49 pm)Jamie M You're missing an important detail that the X21 route is about 10 miles longer than the 309. That's a lot of extra BSOG payment over a day since it's done by Kilometre. It wouldn't change reliability since you're just shifting vehicles around similar work. The spare bus situation wouldn't also work in reality, since you would have to replace the current spare deckers with other spare deckers.
(09 May 2018, 6:49 pm)Jamie M You're missing an important detail that the X21 route is about 10 miles longer than the 309. That's a lot of extra BSOG payment over a day since it's done by Kilometre. It wouldn't change reliability since you're just shifting vehicles around similar work. The spare bus situation wouldn't also work in reality, since you would have to replace the current spare deckers with other spare deckers.
