I can see a good argument for not having every service go into Newcastle, but it would be commercial suicide to terminate everything at Gateshead. You're then forcing people to go for Network One tickets, where GNE only gets part revenue from. The rest is split (although not evenly) between the other partners of Network Ticketing.

(03 Jan 2020, 7:58 pm)Adrian wrote I can see a good argument for not having every service go into Newcastle, but it would be commercial suicide to terminate everything at Gateshead. You're then forcing people to go for Network One tickets, where GNE only gets part revenue from. The rest is split (although not evenly) between the other partners of Network Ticketing.

As well as the fact people don't want to have to change to go an extra stop or so into Newcastle on an already crowded Metro, I know I wouldn't. Don't think the Metro could actually cope with taking all of the Gateshead bus passengers into Newcastle.

Make the X9/X10 a coach service, going from Central Station instead of Eldon Square.

NEW service X82 on Sundays only, following X84 route but terminating at Throckley. Could the X84 ever realistically operate additionally via Silver Lonnen and Slatyford Lane to Denton Burn to incorporate Slatyford and possibly remove the need for the Nexus 84A, which could operate between Fenham and Newcastle only?

(03 Jan 2020, 9:04 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Make the X9/X10 a coach service, going from Central Station instead of Eldon Square.

NEW service X82 on Sundays only, following X84 route but terminating at Throckley. Could the X84 ever realistically operate additionally via Silver Lonnen and Slatyford Lane to Denton Burn to incorporate Slatyford and possibly remove the need for the Nexus 84A, which could operate between Fenham and Newcastle only?


Wouldn't make much sense plus would need a renumber because of SNE X82, 84A is relatively unpopular but there for those who need it hence NEXUS secured it so wouldn't make much sense in a stagecoach dominated area, they have links to Hexham and beyond with 685 once a hour and the amount of stagecoach services going through wouldn't make passengers switch for a rather infrequent GNE service with stagecoach having a frequent service in most areas.

GNE X82 would only run on Sundays, and terminate at Throckley as passengers can get to Hexham on the 685 and GNE 10. GNE provides the service Monday-Saturday, infrequently, competing against numerous operators towards Newcastle, Denton Burn, Throckley, Hexham etc, so why not on a Sunday? I travel on various GNE buses on Sundays and it costs more because I require a Stagecoach bus in to Newcastle. GNE are handing passengers to Stagecoach and to Arriva on Sundays on the route. 

I wonder if the 84A is continuing from March...apparently Stanley Travel won't be awarded the service as the contracts have been awarded to Arriva, GCT and GNE. The 84A seems unnecessary.

Couple of things from the replies to mine and Orange posts

1) I never said it would be easy. You'd obviously have to have more frequent metros running but now would be the time to decided seen as they are purchasing a new fleet ( you'd need more drivers too )
2)Someone said it would be bad for GNE?  I don't Agree. If, say, the  21 only went as far as Gateshead do you think the 1000's of passengers who use this service to go to town will suddenly stop?  They would get off and get the more frequent ( see above) metro.  And this would obviously also include the 2 stagecoch services and the arriva x12 service so no buses from the south/east would enter Newcastle.
3) You wouldn't want to penalise customers so haw about a 3 months of free metro travel to and from newcastle with customers who have a GNE/Arriva?STagecoah ticket alighting from certain services. You could also stagger the service stopped from going into town. After the trail you'd have to decide if it was a success in both number of people using it and if the air quality has improved enough in town to continue.
4) if the bus companies really want to run service to Newcastle how about utilising current space and re opening worsick street bus station?

Obviously this is pie in the sky but like i said, new years day in Newcastle without buses, to pardon the pun, was like a" breath of fresh air"!

That system has trialled in the 80s when the bus services went private they started going back into Newcastle becasue passengers were annoyed having to get off walk to the metro most people would rather stay on the bus a couple of extra minutes. And your system the X9/X10 would turn around at Heworth because that's where it meets the metro, I'm not having a go just most of GNE buses comply with LEZ

No problem Ds1197.

Everyone has an option TBH.

I'm just saying Newcastle city Centre was "fresh" place on new years day. Wether the buses meet X,Y or Z doesn't matter, unless they are pure electric they cause pollution. When I was young i used to go from my house with my mum to winlaton. Go off bus at haymarket. Got 1 from Northumberland street to marlbough crestent then 631 to winlaton. I would have loved to have stayed on 1 bus to get me to my destination so i'm sure passengers could alight at heworth, gateshead, regent centre. It might take a bit of getting use to but there are many positives to this to.

I know if the X21 didn't go to Newcastle, I wouldn't bother going. In fact, since moving to Bishop a few years ago, I've been to Newcastle more times than 10 years I lived in Gateshead!
There's nothing in Newcastle that I can't to at the MetroCentre, so if anything terminating buses at Gateshead would likely cause a lot of issues with Eldon Square. If you're going to change buses, why not go to MetroCentre instead

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One thing to bare in mind with this suggestion is concession bus pass holders can't use the Metro for free (have to buy a Metro Gold Card which is £12 a year if you live in Tyne & Wear or £24 if you live outside of T&W) and let's face it by the time you get off a bus walk to the Metro station wait for the Metro, on it and then get off then walk to Eldon it would take more time and effort than the bus currently does.

Good point Streetdeckfan but for everyone i know who loves the metro centre several hate it. And I would assume the most polluting times of day are early morning and late afternoon???? so worker in Newcastle? I cant see them going to the metro centre when they work or need connecting transport in newcastle?

(04 Jan 2020, 12:40 pm)Rob44 wrote Good point Streetdeckfan but for everyone i know who loves the metro centre several hate it. And I would assume the most polluting times of day are early morning and late afternoon????  so worker in Newcastle? I cant see them going to the metro centre when they work or need connecting transport in newcastle?

The Metrocentre is a place you love or hate, same as Newcastle, personally, i like the Metrocentre, more than Newcastle.

No need for the X21 to extend to the Metrocentre, there's plenty of buses connecting Newcastle and the Metrocentre.

(04 Jan 2020, 12:40 pm)Rob44 wrote Good point Streetdeckfan but for everyone i know who loves the metro centre several hate it. And I would assume the most polluting times of day are early morning and late afternoon????  so worker in Newcastle? I cant see them going to the metro centre when they work or need connecting transport in newcastle?

I was saying it more from a regular passenger perspective rather than commuter perspective. Obviously if you work in in Newcastle it would be pointless going to Metrocentre!

(04 Jan 2020, 12:45 pm)Michael wrote The Metrocentre is a place you love or hate, same as Newcastle, personally, i like the Metrocentre, more than Newcastle.

No need for the X21 to extend to the Metrocentre, there's plenty of buses connecting Newcastle and the Metrocentre.

I wasn't implying that it should go to Metrocentre, only that if the buses terminate at Gateshead, and you have a choice between going in to Newcastle and visiting Metrocentre, I know which one I would pick.
I think without all the services at the bus station, Eldon Square footfall would greatly drop.

(04 Jan 2020, 12:57 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I wasn't implying that it should go to Metrocentre, only that if the buses terminate at Gateshead, and you have a choice between going in to Newcastle and visiting Metrocentre, I know which one I would pick.
I think without all the services at the bus station, Eldon Square footfall would greatly drop.

Ah right sorry, i misread your post!

(03 Jan 2020, 2:27 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Haymarket is dominated by Arriva, whereas Eldon Square is dominated by GNE. How would moving bus station change passenger numbers? Connections are easier if all the services are in one place, the Q3 and Cobalt &. Coast services are odd in Haymarket.

What about curtailing services at Gateshead? Some 27s could still continue to Newcastle.

Hsymsrkrt services tend to go north and east while ES services mostly ho South and west. That is the reason for the disparity.

Although I hate the thought of Newcastle bound buses being truncated at metro stations as opposed to continuing on to the City Centre as I detested this back in the day.
This could be achieved with something similar to the free metroshuttles that operate in Manchester. The 1 and 2.

Example could be free shuttle 1 Heworth, Gateshead. Eldon Square, Haymarket.

Free shuttle 2 Regent Centre, Gosforth High Street, Haymarket. Central Station, Gateshead.

This would give the Gateshead to Haymarket corridor 2 separate free shuttles. Yes buses would still be entering Newcastle City Centre but not at the current amount of vehicles.

It works in Manchester doesn't it? Could it work here?

(04 Jan 2020, 6:13 pm)ifm001 wrote Although I hate the thought of Newcastle bound buses being truncated at metro stations as opposed to continuing on to the City Centre  as I detested this back in the day.
This could be achieved with something similar to the free metroshuttles that operate in Manchester. The 1 and 2.

Example could be  free shuttle 1 Heworth, Gateshead. Eldon Square, Haymarket.

Free shuttle 2 Regent Centre,  Gosforth High Street, Haymarket. Central Station, Gateshead.

This would give the Gateshead to Haymarket corridor 2 separate free shuttles. Yes buses would still be entering Newcastle City Centre but not at the current amount of vehicles. 

It works in Manchester doesn't it?  Could it work here?

I think you have made a good point about the alternative - but as with pre-86, I don't think that it needs to be every service which is truncated at Gateshead.

I do think something needs to be done about the never ending chain of buses over the Tyne Bridge, some of which are carrying fresh air beyond the peaks.

The radical solution would be to curtail them all. 
An alternative would be to terminate some at Gateshead.
Another alternative would be to switch around the routes (of some or all?) between Gateshead and Newcastle. Coming from west Gateshead - send 'em along Centrelink and over the Tyne or Swing Bridge. Back out over Redheugh. 

Coming from South and East - send' em in over the Redheugh and back out over the Tyne Bridge or Swing Bridge.

Not only could it assist with the traffic and reliability issues, it could assist the pollution issues and could open up new journey opportunities. Ever tried getting to Central Station from south/east Gateshead or beyond, using the bus? Pita! 

The bus gate at the bottom of Dean St and at the end of the Swing Bridge and bus lane  on Hills St are wasted/underused at the moment and the powers that be bleat on endlessly about the lack of bus priority measures, potentially having to pay to enter the city and being stuck in traffic.
Yet it seems there's no radical solutions or alternatives being looked at.

Keeping in mind the LEZ, if buses terminated at Gateshead, people travelling longer distances would be more likely to think, sod it, I'm taking the car, which defeats the whole object, really.

(04 Jan 2020, 6:35 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Keeping in mind the LEZ, if buses terminated at Gateshead, people travelling longer distances would be more likely to think, sod it, I'm taking the car, which defeats the whole object, really.

As an example, I can get on the metro at 2300 in Newcastle, get a 4 to the Galleries and jump on the X1 which left Newcastle at 2300.

Minimal traffic to cause delays or congestion, yet despite any inconvenience caused by having to change... 
Granted I only do that when I'm pi$$Ed, nowhere near one of the two X1 bus stops in Newcastle and my mates are heading back to somewhere in Washington - but it proves it is doable.

(04 Jan 2020, 6:13 pm)ifm001 wrote Although I hate the thought of Newcastle bound buses being truncated at metro stations as opposed to continuing on to the City Centre  as I detested this back in the day.
This could be achieved with something similar to the free metroshuttles that operate in Manchester. The 1 and 2.

Example could be  free shuttle 1 Heworth, Gateshead. Eldon Square, Haymarket.

Free shuttle 2 Regent Centre,  Gosforth High Street, Haymarket. Central Station, Gateshead.

This would give the Gateshead to Haymarket corridor 2 separate free shuttles. Yes buses would still be entering Newcastle City Centre but not at the current amount of vehicles. 

It works in Manchester doesn't it?  Could it work here?

I think free shuttles would be a great idea - how does this work in Manchester? Who is going to operate/fund the free shuttles? 

I think reducing the number of vehicles into the City Centre is a good idea, and certainly achievable. Bus operators would lose revenue on services along those corridors, but it could work. Services could terminate at Gateshead, with shuttles linking Gateshead with Newcastle and the West End, like Regent Centre & Gosforth. A number of bus services would still need to exist, such as Stagecoach expresses and services passing through, such as the 12 and 39/40 to Walker/Wallsend and 62/63 to Killingworth. There would still be a number of buses in town, but far less.

NEW service 84: Hexham - Throckley - Chapel Park - Denton Burn - Fenham - Newcastle, following X84 route but serving additional stops in Chapel Park, operating every 20 minutes with X84/X85 also every 20 minutes. Monday-Saturday only.

(04 Jan 2020, 7:45 pm)Andreos1 wrote As an example, I can get on the metro at 2300 in Newcastle, get a 4 to the Galleries and jump on the X1 which left Newcastle at 2300.

Minimal traffic to cause delays or congestion, yet despite any inconvenience caused by having to change... 
Granted I only do that when I'm pi$$Ed, nowhere near one of the two X1 bus stops in Newcastle and my mates are heading back to somewhere in Washington - but it proves it is doable.

It's doable, but when sober and having to make that journey 5 mornings and 5 afternoons a week, perhaps with heavy bags, perhaps not at your youngest or fittest (I used to barrel down the stairs in Gateshead Interchange but I hobble down them, these days and still can't do the down escalators there because they go too fast and do weird things to my eyes) it's blooming tedious, though.

(04 Jan 2020, 10:20 pm)BusLoverMum wrote It's doable, but when sober and having to make that journey 5 mornings and 5 afternoons a week, perhaps with heavy bags, perhaps not at your youngest or fittest (I used to barrel down the stairs in Gateshead Interchange but I hobble down them, these days and still can't do the down escalators there because they go too fast and do weird things to my eyes) it's blooming tedious, though.

To be honest, it was more do-able when there were direct services between home and Newcastle. 

Relying on an X1 during rush hour (with or without bags) is a gamble and can be very tedious.
Interesting you mention the bags. 
Having 2 changes or 3 isn't so much the issue when lugging about bags. 
The luggage space (or lack of), influences my decision to drive in/out over the bus.

With the Clean Air Zone in place from 2021 here is my suggestion for services...

Services at Gateshead operating to Newcastle will only Set Down at Stand N in Gateshead Interchange, passengers from Gateshead will be able to use an affordable £1.00 shuttle service which will operate every 5 to 10 minutes via the Sage & Swing Bridge to Newcastle Market Street & Central Station offering frequent links to the Quayside. The service will return via the Redheugh Bridge, although the services will operate both clockwise & anti-clockwise.

To enforce the Set Down rule a staff member will be present to instruct potential passengers to use the Shuttle service from Stand H. Services 1/1A/1B will also offer the £1.00 deal for any passengers travelling to Newcastle only.

Exceptions will apply to Coaster services 1/1A/1B which will continue to allow passengers to travel to and beyond Newcastle.

Service Q1/Q2 will be replaced by the shuttle services, this will offer an increased amount of buses to the Quayside from Gateshead and Newcastle.

The Gateshead | Wrekenton | Heworth section will revert back to services 51/52, these services will be similar to how the 93/94 operate...

The Shuttle service will operate using Electric Euro 6 vehicles...

Currently it's not confirmed what services are not going to operate to Newcastle when the CAZ is put in place, although the shuttle service should assist with transporting passengers just wanting to cross to Newcastle from Gateshead, this should take the load off long distance services which are usually already busy before reaching Gateshead.

Additionaly, if Nexus were agree to this proposal they could use their Interchange Staff & Security Members to enforce the Set Down rule. Although this may have problems for Arriva if they are still operating the X12 to Newcastle in 2021...

Isn't it crazy that we're even talking about reducing services into Newcastle, because of the introduction of a clean air zone? 

We should be talking about increasing services., and asking questions why buses are being used as a scapegoat, whilst private cars are getting away without being held to account.

(04 Jan 2020, 11:06 pm)Adrian wrote Isn't it crazy that we're even talking about reducing services into Newcastle, because of the introduction of a clean air zone? 

We should be talking about increasing services., and asking questions why buses are being used as a scapegoat, whilst private cars are getting away without being held to account.

There are too many buses in Newcastle, clean air zone or not. Terminating in Gateshead, Gosforth, Shieldfield etc and shuttles running into Newcastle regularly, with affordable fares, or even free, would reduce the number of buses dramatically and improve traffic flow, safety, air quality etc.

(04 Jan 2020, 11:21 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote There are too many buses in Newcastle, clean air zone or not. Terminating in Gateshead, Gosforth, Shieldfield etc and shuttles running into Newcastle regularly, with affordable fares, or even free, would reduce the number of buses dramatically and improve traffic flow, safety, air quality etc.

What makes you think that there are too many buses in Newcastle?

The suggestion it would improve traffic flow, safety and air quality, I cannot disagree with, but why are we blaming buses for all this? The traffic flow of buses would dramatically increase if a tariff was imposed on private cars, and you'd get away with a permanent closure on Blackett Street for example, which would improve safety. 

The amount of private hire vehicles in Newcastle, particularly on a night, suggests to me that there's either not enough buses or they're not convenient enough to meet customer demands.

Go North East service 40 operated between Chapel House and Wallsend Metro, this could return? How long did this service last, before it was cancelled in 2005?

Did the West Road always have so many services, with Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach all operating that way?

(04 Jan 2020, 11:28 pm)Adrian wrote What makes you think that there are too many buses in Newcastle?

The suggestion it would improve traffic flow, safety and air quality, I cannot disagree with, but why are we blaming buses for all this? The traffic flow of buses would dramatically increase if a tariff was imposed on private cars, and you'd get away with a permanent closure on Blackett Street for example, which would improve safety. 

The amount of private hire vehicles in Newcastle, particularly on a night, suggests to me that there's either not enough buses or they're not convenient enough to meet customer demands.

Shuttles could link services outside the city centre, reducing the number of buses dramatically. There are too many buses passing through and terminating in Newcastle. A regular, convenient, affordable, reliable shuttle could link services terminating in Gosforth, at Gateshead Interchange, Quayside and Shieldfield. Not blaming the buses, just we can reduce the number of buses, and we can't reduce the number of cars because unfortunately cars are more convenient than buses.

My suggestion wasn't to reduce the amount of buses, but to have dedicated Gateshead to Newcastle rather than passengers opting to use say the X10 from Gateshead to Newcastle, which is already busy as it stands...