(04 Jan 2020, 11:06 pm)Adrian wrote Isn't it crazy that we're even talking about reducing services into Newcastle, because of the introduction of a clean air zone? 

We should be talking about increasing services., and asking questions why buses are being used as a scapegoat, whilst private cars are getting away without being held to account.

I can't understand these posts either, can say we can provide shuttles or use Metro all we want but many people absolutely hate making changes in their journeys, I know people who would sooner get train journeys that have a longer journey time just to avoid having to change train at a station, tbh half the time when I connect from X12/X21 from Durham and intend to catch a X66 I want to cut across the road where the X10 stand is as the thought of walking right round Gateshead Interchange is unappealing to me.

It's interesting that apparently numbers of bus journeys being made around Newcastle over the last few months have seen a fair drop purely from Blackett Street being blocked off over the festive period which was just a total inconvenience especially if you wanted to say connect with services to/from Eldon Square, Haymarket Bus Station's, you end up having to walk all the way from the Gate and then there's the increased traffic round by the Gate as a result, walked round there one day and so many buses were trying to get round at one point that it just caused a blockade for about 10-15 minutes.

Realistically with a clean air zone you want to get more people using public transport not put them off more so, if anything we need more buses, not less I'd say.

(04 Jan 2020, 11:06 pm)Adrian wrote Isn't it crazy that we're even talking about reducing services into Newcastle, because of the introduction of a clean air zone? 

We should be talking about increasing services., and asking questions why buses are being used as a scapegoat, whilst private cars are getting away without being held to account.

I totally agree, curtailing services at gateshead would be ludicrous and lead to higher volume of cars entering the city. This would also annoy bus travellers having to change at gateshead just to go half a mile up the road.
I think cars should be banned from city centres and have a park and ride system at existing metro stations.
The is nothing wrong with buses entering the city, it's the cars and other traffic that causes delays to the buses increasing pollution.
The high level bridge is also a dedicated bus and taxi bridge, why not use this since it's one of the major routes to gateshead?
Buses need more priority which in turn will speed up journeys and help get more people using public transport. The bus gate at Sunderland is just one step in quickening journeys for passengers. They also need to add filter coming into gateshead from newcastle. Why stop buses entering the interchange when there be no impact on traffic?

(04 Jan 2020, 10:38 pm)Andreos1 wrote To be honest, it was more do-able when there were direct services between home and Newcastle. 

Relying on an X1 during rush hour (with or without bags) is a gamble and can be very tedious.
Interesting you mention the bags. 
Having 2 changes or 3 isn't so much the issue when lugging about bags. 
The luggage space (or lack of), influences my decision to drive in/out over the bus.

I'm often a double seat hogger on the X21. Yeah, you can sit with me, I'm sure you'll be quite comfortable huddled up here with me and my 4 bags. Park a cheek, why don't you.

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(04 Jan 2020, 11:06 pm)Adrian wrote Isn't it crazy that we're even talking about reducing services into Newcastle, because of the introduction of a clean air zone? 

We should be talking about increasing services., and asking questions why buses are being used as a scapegoat, whilst private cars are getting away without being held to account.

Exactly. Even a 10 year old bus can't be as polluting as 40 cars.

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(04 Jan 2020, 11:01 pm)S830OFT wrote With the Clean Air Zone in place from 2021 here is my suggestion for services...

Services at Gateshead operating to Newcastle will only Set Down at Stand N in Gateshead Interchange, passengers from Gateshead will be able to use an affordable £1.00 shuttle service which will operate every 5 to 10 minutes via the Sage & Swing Bridge to Newcastle Market Street & Central Station offering frequent links to the Quayside. The service will return via the Redheugh Bridge, although the services will operate both clockwise & anti-clockwise.

To enforce the Set Down rule a staff member will be present to instruct potential passengers to use the Shuttle service from Stand H. Services 1/1A/1B will also offer the £1.00 deal for any passengers travelling to Newcastle only.

Exceptions will apply to Coaster services 1/1A/1B which will continue to allow passengers to travel to and beyond Newcastle.

Service Q1/Q2 will be replaced by the shuttle services, this will offer an increased amount of buses to the Quayside from Gateshead and Newcastle.

The Gateshead | Wrekenton | Heworth section will revert back to services 51/52, these services will be similar to how the 93/94 operate...

The Shuttle service will operate using Electric Euro 6 vehicles...

Currently it's not confirmed what services are not going to operate to Newcastle when the CAZ is put in place, although the shuttle service should assist with transporting passengers just wanting to cross to Newcastle from Gateshead, this should take the load off long distance services which are usually already busy before reaching Gateshead.

Additionaly, if Nexus were agree to this proposal they could use their Interchange Staff & Security Members to enforce the Set Down rule. Although this may have problems for Arriva if they are still operating the X12 to Newcastle in 2021...

Hmmm. Hundreds of passengers per hour, walking from stand N to stand H. What could possibly go wrong? (Not saying that this is how Saturday's incident happened, but what are the odds?)

Someone mention the bus gate at the swing bridge.... didn't GNE want to run more service to newcastle via this route but gateshead and newcastle council refused them?

If you've already inconvenienced your passengers by making them change at Gateshead onto a shuttle, why would you want to then inconvenience them further by making that shuttle go via everywhere rather than the direct run to Eldon Square that they've been used to?

And why would you also want to charge them more for the privilege of a longer, more annoying journey?

(04 Jan 2020, 11:01 pm)S830OFT wrote With the Clean Air Zone in place from 2021 here is my suggestion for services...

Services at Gateshead operating to Newcastle will only Set Down at Stand N in Gateshead Interchange, passengers from Gateshead will be able to use an affordable £1.00 shuttle service which will operate every 5 to 10 minutes via the Sage & Swing Bridge to Newcastle Market Street & Central Station offering frequent links to the Quayside. The service will return via the Redheugh Bridge, although the services will operate both clockwise & anti-clockwise.

To enforce the Set Down rule a staff member will be present to instruct potential passengers to use the Shuttle service from Stand H. Services 1/1A/1B will also offer the £1.00 deal for any passengers travelling to Newcastle only.

Exceptions will apply to Coaster services 1/1A/1B which will continue to allow passengers to travel to and beyond Newcastle.

Service Q1/Q2 will be replaced by the shuttle services, this will offer an increased amount of buses to the Quayside from Gateshead and Newcastle.

The Gateshead | Wrekenton | Heworth section will revert back to services 51/52, these services will be similar to how the 93/94 operate...

The Shuttle service will operate using Electric Euro 6 vehicles...

Currently it's not confirmed what services are not going to operate to Newcastle when the CAZ is put in place, although the shuttle service should assist with transporting passengers just wanting to cross to Newcastle from Gateshead, this should take the load off long distance services which are usually already busy before reaching Gateshead.

Additionaly, if Nexus were agree to this proposal they could use their Interchange Staff & Security Members to enforce the Set Down rule. Although this may have problems for Arriva if they are still operating the X12 to Newcastle in 2021...

A £1 shuttle would put me off travelling to Newcastle. If I'm paying £95 a month (or even £110 a month), I expect to be able to travel to Newcastle. Nobody wants to go to Gateshead

(05 Jan 2020, 12:48 am)BusLoverMum wrote I'm often a double seat hogger on the X21. Yeah, you can sit with me, I'm sure you'll be quite comfortable huddled up here with me and my 4 bags. Park a cheek, why don't you.

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Exactly. Even a 10 year old bus can't be as polluting as 40 cars.

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Hmmm. Hundreds of passengers per hour, walking from stand N to stand H. What could possibly go wrong? (Not saying that this is how Saturday's incident happened, but what are the odds?)

I usually take up the full table on the X21, there's nothing worse than having someone sit opposite you! I also usually take up 2 seats on a bus without tables, that's mostly because leg room is absolutely atrocious so I have no choice but to sit sideways unless I want my knees shattered!

The issue with Newcastle isn't the amount of buses, it's the amount of time they spent sitting at traffic lights! The X21 has to go through 8 lots of traffic lights to get to Eldon Square, and from my experience it stops at all of them, the X30 has to go through 15!

(04 Jan 2020, 11:06 pm)Adrian wrote Isn't it crazy that we're even talking about reducing services into Newcastle, because of the introduction of a clean air zone? 

We should be talking about increasing services., and asking questions why buses are being used as a scapegoat, whilst private cars are getting away without being held to account.

Playing devil's advocate here. But why would you increase the number of buses following each other in and out of the city centre? 
Beyond the peaks, they can often carry fresh air and seeing an X1 follow a 28, 56 and 57 all the way down Old Durham Road, in and out of Gateshead and then over the Tyne Bridge isn't a sight a financial planner would want to see happen. 

I shared this link previously and (https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-15893433) you can see where each and every hot spot is. Is it coincidence that the hot spots are where there's usually queues of buses at?

I can see the benefits of stopping some services at Gateshead - but certainly not all.
I can also see the benefits of offering some sort of variation to routes in and out of Newcastle. Avoiding the hot spots identified too perhaps.

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(05 Jan 2020, 12:48 am)BusLoverMum wrote I'm often a double seat hogger on the X21. Yeah, you can sit with me, I'm sure you'll be quite comfortable huddled up here with me and my 4 bags. Park a cheek, why don't you. 

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Exactly. Even a 10 year old bus can't be as polluting as 40 cars.

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Hmmm. Hundreds of passengers per hour, walking from stand N to stand H. What could possibly go wrong? (Not saying that this is how Saturday's incident happened, but what are the odds?)

As appealing as it may be, I need somewhere to park my 4 bags too.

(05 Jan 2020, 11:59 am)Andreos1 wrote Playing devil's advocate here. But why would you increase the number of buses following each other in and out of the city centre? 
Beyond the peaks, they can often carry fresh air and seeing an X1 follow a 28, 56 and 57 all the way down Old Durham Road, in and out of Gateshead and then over the Tyne Bridge isn't a sight a financial planner would want to see happen. 

I shared this link previously and (https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-15893433) you can see where each and every hot spot is. Is it coincidence that the hot spots are where there's usually queues of buses at?

I can see the benefits of stopping some services at Gateshead - but certainly not all.
I can also see the benefits of offering some sort of variation to routes in and out of Newcastle. Avoiding the hot spots identified too perhaps.

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As appealing as it may be, I need somewhere to park my 4 bags too.

During the non-peak times, I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to only send every other bus to Newcastle. With the X21 for example, only have the ones from Bishop go to Newcastle, with the Durham ones stopping at Gateshead.

From my experience, between Durham and Newcastle, you're lucky to get 50% of the seats filled during the day, so why not half the amount of buses

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I really don't see the big deal about alighting at gateshead to catch another form of transport ( be it another bus or metro) GNE don't have any qualms about stopping a service at Gateshead and kicking the passengers off cause the bus is running late. In the last year i'd say this has happened to me several times and I wouldn't say i'm a regular bus traveller!

(05 Jan 2020, 12:47 pm)Rob44 wrote I really don't see the big deal about alighting at gateshead to catch another form of transport ( be it another bus or metro) GNE don't have any qualms about stopping a service at Gateshead and kicking the passengers off  cause the bus is running late. In the last year i'd say this has happened to me several times and I wouldn't say i'm a regular bus traveller!

This is exactly what gave me the idea to have SOME buses terminate at Gateshead, PLANNED, rather than kicked off because the bus is running late, that is poor service from GNE. I have few complaints about GNE, but that is one complaint I do have.

But then we'll only get moaning by people on here, that they have to change buses for Newcastle, but then the buses heading to Newcastle might be delayed due to the traffic, because the traffic won't go away by terminating buses at Gateshead!

They wanted to do that with the 56 years ago, miss out Gateshead interchange and a high number of passengers said no, so they didn't bother changing it.

(05 Jan 2020, 12:47 pm)Rob44 wrote I really don't see the big deal about alighting at gateshead to catch another form of transport ( be it another bus or metro) GNE don't have any qualms about stopping a service at Gateshead and kicking the passengers off  cause the bus is running late. In the last year i'd say this has happened to me several times and I wouldn't say i'm a regular bus traveller!

I have no issues changing at Gateshead if I wanted to travel to Newcastle, as long as I don't have to pay any extra to get there. If there was a shuttle bus that I could use my All Zone ticket on, then that's fine.

If this were to happen, I would say extend the X66 so it runs Eldon Square - Gateshead - Metrocentre - ASDA/IKEA - Metrocentre - Eldon Square, then again in reverse.

(05 Jan 2020, 1:00 pm)Michael wrote But then we'll only get moaning by people on here, that they have to change buses for Newcastle, but then the buses heading to Newcastle might be delayed due to the traffic, because the traffic won't go away by terminating buses at Gateshead!

They wanted to do that with the 56 years ago, miss out Gateshead interchange and a high number of passengers said no, so they didn't bother changing it.

Which is why I suggested having every other service go to Newcastle, that way people who want to travel to Newcastle can. To me, it's less about the traffic, and more about having pretty much empty buses going into Newcastle, the problem with traffic will never go away.

(05 Jan 2020, 1:00 pm)Michael wrote But then we'll only get moaning by people on here, that they have to change buses for Newcastle, but then the buses heading to Newcastle might be delayed due to the traffic, because the traffic won't go away by terminating buses at Gateshead!

They wanted to do that with the 56 years ago, miss out Gateshead interchange and a high number of passengers said no, so they didn't bother changing it.




Oooh, please sir! 56 to Newcastle omitting Gateshead, 56A to terminus Gateshead Interchange

You might aswell have all services to Newcastle with a prefix of an X before the number and normal to Gateshead. Instead of an A.

This will never happen, normal passengers are not going to be prepared to get off in Gateshead to catch another bus or metro to Newcastle, bring back deregulation

How long is this conversation going to go on for it’s like a broken record each day


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(05 Jan 2020, 1:00 pm)Michael wrote But then we'll only get moaning by people on here, that they have to change buses for Newcastle, but then the buses heading to Newcastle might be delayed due to the traffic, because the traffic won't go away by terminating buses at Gateshead!

They wanted to do that with the 56 years ago, miss out Gateshead interchange and a high number of passengers said no, so they didn't bother changing it.

All you need to do is give punters the alternative if turning some at Gateshead. 
I'd suggest having the longer distance stuff continue to Newcastle and then when the corridor is shared with local/shorter services - punters have the option of getting a 57 from the QE to Gateshead or a 56 all the way through. 
Rather than the two follow each other all the way from the QE to Newcastle and then back the same way.

(04 Jan 2020, 9:34 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote I think free shuttles would be a great idea - how does this work in Manchester? Who is going to operate/fund the free shuttles? 

I think reducing the number of vehicles into the City Centre is a good idea, and certainly achievable. Bus operators would lose revenue on services along those corridors, but it could work. Services could terminate at Gateshead, with shuttles linking Gateshead with Newcastle and the West End, like Regent Centre & Gosforth. A number of bus services would still need to exist, such as Stagecoach expresses and services passing through, such as the 12 and 39/40 to Walker/Wallsend and 62/63 to Killingworth. There would still be a number of buses in town, but far less.

Not sure how it works in Manchester. But it does. They have operated for a number of years now. Guessing TfM must be footing the bill. But they serve the main rail stations of Picadilly. Victoria and Oxford Road, The bus stations of Shudehill and Picadilly Gardens, the coach station at Chorlton Street is a short walk from one of the stops and of course they observe the main shopping areas also. 

This works in Manchester, but we would need an awful lot of planning and funding to get the same arrangement in Newcastle.  It would be nice though.

(05 Jan 2020, 1:25 pm)cbma06 wrote You might aswell have all services to Newcastle  with a prefix of an X before the number and normal to Gateshead. Instead of an A.

This will never happen, normal passengers are not going to be prepared to get off in Gateshead to catch another bus or metro to Newcastle, bring back deregulation

How long is this conversation going to go on for it’s like a broken record each day


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Point is, they are now when GNE force people off to change at Gateshead towards Newcastle, and start buses at Gateshead requiring a bus from Newcastle to Gateshead. Make it planned rather than unexpected poor service. No extra cost, minor inconvenience. We could have SOME buses to Newcastle, others not. Make changes optional, improve reliability, reduce traffic congestion. Can't please everyone of course, but a compromise is achievable.

(05 Jan 2020, 12:48 am)BusLoverMum wrote I'm often a double seat hogger on the X21. Yeah, you can sit with me, I'm sure you'll be quite comfortable huddled up here with me and my 4 bags. Park a cheek, why don't you.

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Exactly. Even a 10 year old bus can't be as polluting as 40 cars.

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Hmmm. Hundreds of passengers per hour, walking from stand N to stand H. What could possibly go wrong? (Not saying that this is how Saturday's incident happened, but what are the odds?)
Most people will know not go to Stand N once it is advertised...

(05 Jan 2020, 1:41 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Point is, they are now when GNE force people off to change at Gateshead towards Newcastle, and start buses at Gateshead requiring a bus from Newcastle to Gateshead. Make it planned rather than unexpected poor service. No extra cost, minor inconvenience. We could have SOME buses to Newcastle, others not. Make changes optional, improve reliability, reduce traffic congestion. Can't please everyone of course, but a compromise is achievable.

I understand passengers been told to get off at Gateshead because the bus was late, otherwise you have half of the allocated fleet of that particular service stuck in Newcastle, but the bus company can’t predict when and where there will be a hold up in traffic, some companies have already changed a lot of there services to try and combat problems at peak time by changing the timetables of there routes, bus services need more running time but companies don’t want to give a lot of running times as it will cost more money for the bus company, even if you have planned bus services to terminate as Planned at Gateshead then what happens if the Newcastle services are running late anyway then the company have less services going to Newcastle.


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Less buses heading to newcastle from the south = better chance of the services that do go to Newcastle NOT getting held up?

(05 Jan 2020, 1:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote All you need to do is give punters the alternative if turning some at Gateshead. 
I'd suggest having the longer distance stuff continue to Newcastle and then when the corridor is shared with local/shorter services - punters have the option of getting a 57 from the QE to Gateshead or a 56 all the way through. 
Rather than the two follow each other all the way from the QE to Newcastle and then back the same way.

All that would probably happen there is overcrowding on the 56 as people waiting on Old Durham Road would just let the 57 go past to avoid having to change at Gateshead to go to Newcastle.

An extension to my suggestion for the Shuttle service, all Nexus & GNE tickets accepted...

(05 Jan 2020, 3:54 pm)big mac wrote All that would probably happen there is overcrowding on the 56 as people waiting on Old Durham Road would just let the 57 go past to avoid having to change at Gateshead to go to Newcastle.

Over-crowding on the 56, cos the demand between the QE and Newcastle on the 57 is too much? Really?

Even if it was (which I doubt is the case), there's the X1 and even the 25 and 28 to pick up any overspill from the overcrowded 56.
It's not as if the combined 13/14 buses ph from the QE - Newcastle, isn't enough to pick up those percentage of punters letting a 57 go past, cos they want to go to Newcastle.

(05 Jan 2020, 3:54 pm)big mac wrote All that would probably happen there is overcrowding on the 56 as people waiting on Old Durham Road would just let the 57 go past to avoid having to change at Gateshead to go to Newcastle.

A lot of people already let the 57 go when they see a 56 behind for some reason, even though the 56 is normally already quite full when coming down Old Durham Road. I asked someone once why they didn't stop the 57, her response was "I don't like Single Deckers".

I let the 56/x1 go by and get the 57 as its 90p cheaper to town from the same bus stop!!!

(06 Jan 2020, 11:07 am)Rob44 wrote I let the 56/x1 go by and get the 57 as its 90p cheaper to town from the same bus stop!!!

That baffles me too, when they're shocked how much more expensive the 56 is, I make a point of saying the same journey is £1.70 on the 57.

(06 Jan 2020, 11:07 am)Rob44 wrote I let the 56/x1 go by and get the 57 as its 90p cheaper to town from the same bus stop!!!

I'm the opposite if the times align - I'll aim for an X1 non stop down Mount Sheriff.  Day ticket job for me so price not an issue.  Many a time I see people  frantically trying to track an X1 when they see a stopping service approaching.

Service X44: Newcastle - Central Station - Fenham - Denton Burn - Whickham View - Blaydon - Rowlands Gill - Blackhall Mill

X88: Washington Galleries - Gateshead Interchange - Newcastle Central Station

Providing new direct links to Gateshead and Newcastle, whilst maintaining a link to Metrocentre and Newcastle by changing buses at Gateshead Interchange or Newcastle Central Station.

Would take up too much room in a single post, so:

http://asxterranova.home.blog/2020/01/11...bus-ideas/