The pots of money it makes over the summer must compensate for the winter months but then, looking at things on a positive front, Arriva could do more to promote the service; a dedicated fleet would help. Who wants to travel from Middlesbrough to Scarborough on a Temsa or worse will a Solo? This is what happens and then, thinking about it 7424 et al aren't exactly what you might call a "quality" ride.

(18 Feb 2020, 10:26 am)scanialover wrote The pots of money it makes over the summer must compensate for the winter months but then, looking  at things on a positive front, Arriva could do more to promote the service; a dedicated fleet would help. Who wants to travel from Middlesbrough to Scarborough on a Temsa or worse will a Solo? This is what happens and then, thinking about it 7424 et al aren't exactly what you might call a "quality" ride.

There is no doubt the service probably makes a loss in the winter but it is cut back to absolute minimum with 5 PVR running hourly end to end. I am sure the summer Moreno than makes up for it though! Talking of summer... this summer looks set to be the biggest timetable yet with the X94 variation into Scarborough. I am told there are later buses between Scarborough & Whitby too, as a trial that could lead to further services being added.
It will be interesting to see where they go next with it fleet wise as the B9s whilst still strong now are coming up 6 years old. The peak summer surge fleet is past its best let's be honest, though I've heard rumours of newer vehicles this summer so we'll have to wait and see what happens.
Interestingly the X4 gets later buses as far as Easington from Middlesbrough from April too so that's another one that has huge potential, running via the X3 route in Redcar which has been an area crying out for fast buses to Middlesbrough for a while in my opinion.

I feel like if anyone were to compete with Arriva it would have to be GNE as they have GNE to the north and EY to the south, plus it would be quite nice to have a service connecting the two!

Arriva as I've said many times before needs a shakeup from top to bottom.

The only new purchase that has been made in the last three years has been the X21 / X22 E400MMCs and even then they only replaced 12 of them.

(18 Feb 2020, 1:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote Arriva as I've said many times before needs a shakeup from top to bottom.

The only new purchase that has been made in the last three years has been the X21 / X22 E400MMCs and even then they only replaced 12 of them.

All related to the ongoing saga of the sale by DB, now cancelled and being processed as an IPO instead. This has meant there was no money to invest in new fleet, although other regions have had some limited vehicles delivered where they're required for CAZ's etc.

Excuse my ignorance here but just what is an IPO?

(18 Feb 2020, 3:40 pm)scanialover wrote Excuse my ignorance here but just what is an IPO?

Initial Public Offering. Basically they're wanting to list it on the stock market

(16 Feb 2020, 7:28 am)Stephen James Peter Johns wrote Yes it has as it's been seen operating out of Waterloo depot on 262

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Photo: https://flic.kr/p/2iuQQDr

Suggests "on loan" rather than it being a permanent transfer?

It's embarrassing though. Jesmond can barely manage to get the right buses out on the right services and anything goes at Blyth.

If GNE or Stagecoach turned up and competed on Arriva's patch, Arriva wouldn't bat an eyelid and they wouldn't have the capacity (unless in the form of sub standard ex-London cast offs) to fend them off and retaliate.

I hope whoever buys Arriva in whole or part gives the business a much needed shake up from top to botton.

(18 Feb 2020, 5:03 pm)Dan wrote Photo: https://flic.kr/p/2iuQQDr

Suggests "on loan" rather than it being a permanent transfer?

Arriva North Yorkshire?!

Dormastown 7516 Volvo alx300 has transferred to yorkshire tiger huddersfield

Thanks for the heads up on the IPO. Who though could/might be interested in buying Arriva? Would we see it fragmented. Could we see a better operation than we have at present? Questions, questions.

(18 Feb 2020, 5:48 pm)scanialover wrote Thanks for the heads up on the IPO. Who though could/might be interested in buying Arriva? Would we see it fragmented. Could we see a better operation than we have at present? Questions, questions.

If Arriva was to be fragmented (and before anyone mentions, yes I know Arriva will most likely be sold as a whole) but this is what I'd think would happen to keep the Competition Commission happy.

Northumbria:
- Ashington > GNE
- Blyth > Stagecoach
- Jesmond > GNE with routes later split between Percy Main & Riverside (306 goes to Stagecoach, I don't see why GNE would want it)

Durham & Tees:
- Belmont > Stagecoach (Stagecoach also gets whole of X12)
- Darlington > GNE * In return for Stagecoach getting the 306, GNE completely get the 7
- Stockton > GNE
- Redcar > GNE
- Whitby > Transdev

Arriva is not up for sale no more


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Has either/any of the operators mentioned got the capital to buy the company? If so, why hasn't it happened? I like the idea for my area - Stockton/Middlesbrough, Redcar and Whitby. Got a lot of admiration for GNE and as for Transdev moving into Whitby? Wouldn't that be better to become a GNE operation as well seeing as they operate down the coast?

(18 Feb 2020, 6:13 pm)scanialover wrote Has either/any of the operators mentioned got the capital to buy the company? If so, why hasn't it happened? I like the idea for my area - Stockton/Middlesbrough, Redcar and Whitby. Got a lot of admiration for GNE and as for Transdev moving into Whitby? Wouldn't that be better to become a GNE operation as well seeing as they operate down the coast?

That’s a lot of ifs and buts, arriva wanted to sell the bus division as a whole and not in dribs and drabs


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Yes I'd got that. I think your post that the company is no longer for sale crossed mine talking about possibly splitting up the company.

(18 Feb 2020, 6:01 pm)L469 YVK wrote If Arriva was to be fragmented (and before anyone mentions, yes I know Arriva will most likely be sold as a whole) but this is what I'd think would happen to keep the Competition Commission happy.

Northumbria:
- Ashington > GNE
- Blyth > Stagecoach
- Jesmond > GNE with routes later split between Percy Main & Riverside (306 goes to Stagecoach, I don't see why GNE would want it)

Durham & Tees:
- Belmont > Stagecoach (Stagecoach also gets whole of X12)
- Darlington > GNE * In return for Stagecoach getting the 306, GNE completely get the 7
- Stockton > GNE
- Redcar > GNE
- Whitby > Transdev

If anyone was going to buy anything it would be per area. No way can you just drip and drop depots here and there. Don't know how you've come to these neither. You're creating less competition in most area.

GNE dominate Darlington / Bishop / North Tyneside / Peterlee it just makes no sense.

Also Whitby is an outstation of Redcar so you can't have one going to one and the other another.

If Stagecoach bought it (which your hinting) what likely would happen is they'd get everything bar Stockton which they'd be forced to sell off. All the other areas don't really cause any issues even known it's not for sale and they wouldn't buy it anyway.

The big 4 have much bigger issues with there finances due to cock ups with trains than to bother with buying more buses:
GoAhead (GNE) - Thameslink / Southern
Stagecoach - Virgin East Coast
Arriva - Northern
First - Avanti / Transpennine

(18 Feb 2020, 9:29 pm)Storx wrote If anyone was going to buy anything it would be per area. No way can you just drip and drop depots here and there. Don't know how you've come to these neither. You're creating less competition in most area.

GNE dominate Darlington / Bishop / North Tyneside / Peterlee it just makes no sense.

Also Whitby is an outstation of Redcar so you can't have one going to one and the other another.

If Stagecoach bought it (which your hinting) what likely would happen is they'd get everything bar Stockton which they'd be forced to sell off. All the other areas don't really cause any issues even known it's not for sale and they wouldn't buy it anyway.

The big 4 have much bigger issues with there finances due to cock ups with trains than to bother with buying more buses:
GoAhead (GNE) - Thameslink / Southern
Stagecoach - Virgin East Coast
Arriva - Northern
First - Avanti / Transpennine

Yeah, for the southern half of the region Stagecoach getting everything bar Stockton would make sense. Stockton would work perfect for GNE too if they got that as they'd be able to enhance the X9 / X10 by reducing dead mileage as well as offering later journeys back from Newcastle.

For Northumbria however, I think Jesmond would most likely need to go to GNE as although GNE would end up with a monopoly in parts of North Tyneside, Stagecoach would end up with a monopoly too (i.e Killingworth to Newcastle).

Ashington would be better under GNE too and I could see them running it as a 'hub and spoke' model similar to their Stanley and Washington services.

(19 Feb 2020, 12:45 am)L469 YVK wrote Yeah, for the southern half of the region Stagecoach getting everything bar Stockton would make sense. Stockton would work perfect for GNE too if they got that as they'd be able to enhance the X9 / X10 by reducing dead mileage as well as offering later journeys back from Newcastle.

For Northumbria however, I think Jesmond would most likely need to go to GNE as although GNE would end up with a monopoly in parts of North Tyneside, Stagecoach would end up with a monopoly too (i.e Killingworth to Newcastle).

Ashington would be better under GNE too and I could see them running it as a 'hub and spoke' model similar to their Stanley and Washington services.

Personally I'd say Killingworth is less than the whole of North Tyneside though plus they'd be able to simplify the 52 / 54 into other bus routes which they run anyway. I'm not sure the locals would mind as their much cheaper than both GNE and Arriva anyway.

Weirdly I think Stagecoach would be a better fit for Ashington as they have more experience in long distance bus routes and might actually run the Berwick buses with appropiate buses (coaches like in their Scottish work) rather than Enviro's which aren't really fit for the distance of the journeys. The routes ideally would be better to be like Citylink in Scotland which they have a 35% share of the ownership with a possibly a extension to Edinburgh creating a new link between the two cities and the towns inbetween. Whereas GNE excluding the X9 / X10 don't really have any long distance routes which are mostly non-stop.

(18 Feb 2020, 5:03 pm)Dan wrote Photo: https://flic.kr/p/2iuQQDr

Suggests "on loan" rather than it being a permanent transfer?

It is just a loan.

(19 Feb 2020, 9:41 am)Storx wrote Personally I'd say Killingworth is less than the whole of North Tyneside though plus they'd be able to simplify the 52 / 54 into other bus routes which they run anyway. I'm not sure the locals would mind as their much cheaper than both GNE and Arriva anyway.

Weirdly I think Stagecoach would be a better fit for Ashington as they have more experience in long distance bus routes and might actually run the Berwick buses with appropiate buses (coaches like in their Scottish work) rather than Enviro's which aren't really fit for the distance of the journeys. The routes ideally would be better to be like Citylink in Scotland which they have a 35% share of the ownership with a possibly a extension to Edinburgh creating a new link between the two cities and the towns inbetween. Whereas GNE excluding the X9 / X10 don't really have any long distance routes which are mostly non-stop.

I think going by the Facebook live, GNE would most certainly invest in appropriate vehicles (either Coaches or Scania E400s).

Although GNE don't have any experience with long distance routes, they'd be able to mould Ashington's operations more closely with their own. Something like the below:

- 15 minute Woodhorn /  Newbiggin to Morpeth service with 2x journeys via North Seaton & 2x Journeys via Wansbeck Hospital.

- 15 minute Ashington to Newcastle service (X-Lines). Same route as X21 but all journeys via Hartford Road.

- 15 minute Ashington to Cramlington service via Bedlington. 2x journeys via Nedderton and 2x journeys via Hartford Road.

- 30 minute Ashington to Newcastle 'fast service' (X-Lines) with 1x journey per hour to Newbiggin and 1x journey per hour to Alnwick.

How about instead of giving either stagecoach or GNE a virtual monopoly ( IF ARRIVA WAS SOLD) how about a new company entering the fray?? Lothain venturing into England? National express? Transdev. Im sure on of these taking over services and maybe investing in new route would make it better for the passengers of the north east.

(18 Feb 2020, 5:17 pm)Dyllan7817 wrote Dormastown 7516 Volvo alx300 has transferred to yorkshire tiger huddersfield

7516 isnt an ALX300, do you mean 4516?

Hopefully, with the anticipated PVR reduction, Arriva Dormanstown can manage without its return.

YJ58FHL must be on loan to Blyth now. I've seen it near Corner House going to Blyth.

(19 Feb 2020, 12:43 pm)neilwatson wrote YJ58FHL must be on loan to Blyth now. I've seen it near Corner House going to Blyth.

This is the exact problem with Arriva, they're running on a shoestring. Yes the E400 may be 'Max' standard but these and the other bits of tat are keep popping up on Blyth's 'goldmine' services.

The 308 should've received new vehicles by now considering it's been nearly 7 year since new vehicles were purchased!

Not saying GNE are perfect but they have at least invested over the last few years. Arriva seriously need to step up their game otherwise they'll lose passengers big time. It's a good job GNE's Citaros aren't able to be upgraded to Euro 6 as the way Arriva are now, GNE (and Stagecoach) could quite comfortably walk into Arriva territory and Arriva wouldn't bat an eyelid.

(19 Feb 2020, 2:41 pm)L469 YVK wrote This is the exact problem with Arriva, they're running on a shoestring. Yes the E400 may be 'Max' standard but these and the other bits of tat are keep popping up on Blyth's 'goldmine' services.

The 308 should've received new vehicles by now considering it's been nearly 7 year since new vehicles were purchased!

Not saying GNE are perfect but they have at least invested over the last few years. Arriva seriously need to step up their game otherwise they'll lose passengers big time. It's a good job GNE's Citaros aren't able to be upgraded to Euro 6 as the way Arriva are now, GNE (and Stagecoach) could quite comfortably walk into Arriva territory and Arriva wouldn't bat an eyelid.

tbf that piece of 'tat' is the same age as half of Stagecoach's deckers.



The Arriva double decker fleet at Blyth isn't bad imo and still has a few year left in them before they need to replaced. Just because their not brand new doesn't mean their not good. The minibus fleet on the other hand though is a different discussion together and are a much higher priority imo especially the solo's and MPD's based at Ashington which are just knackered.



I'm not sure if your not from the area but the Arriva fleet around here is a hell of an improvement from early last decade when you had the Cityzens around which literally had water pouring in down the side of the bus and if you sat in the wrong seat you got wet. Not to mention the smell of damp. Arriva has always invested in massive batches then done nothing for years it's nothing new.



1995 - 1999 - Loads

2000 - Few

2001 - 2004 - About 5 buses

2005 - 2006 - Operation Overdrive

2007 - Few

2008 - 2014 - Loads

2015 - 2017 - Few

2018 - Now - Nothing



If that pattern continues they it'll be 2021 to 2022 that investment starts again which is 16 year for the DD and Single fleet (2005/6 batch) and just over 13 year for the minibuses (2008/09) which is about right for investment.

(19 Feb 2020, 2:41 pm)L469 YVK wrote This is the exact problem with Arriva, they're running on a shoestring. Yes the E400 may be 'Max' standard but these and the other bits of tat are keep popping up on Blyth's 'goldmine' services.

The 308 should've received new vehicles by now considering it's been nearly 7 year since new vehicles were purchased!

Not saying GNE are perfect but they have at least invested over the last few years. Arriva seriously need to step up their game otherwise they'll lose passengers big time. It's a good job GNE's Citaros aren't able to be upgraded to Euro 6 as the way Arriva are now, GNE (and Stagecoach) could quite comfortably walk into Arriva territory and Arriva wouldn't bat an eyelid.

 

I'd echo what Storx has said below. While Arriva are by no means a shining light of a bus operator, out of all of the Northumbrian express routes the only buses that frequently appear and are in need of replacement soon are 1401-3, 4653/9/64 and 7485/7. The vast majority are between 5 and 11 years old with decent interior spec, so while replacement will likely start soon it's by no means essential. 

Majority of the vehicles being used were bought in the last major round of investment and, barring the remaining ex-London deckers, the vast majority can be converted to Euro 6 spec.

(19 Feb 2020, 7:52 pm)mb134 wrote  I'd echo what Storx has said below. While Arriva are by no means a shining light of a bus operator, out of all of the Northumbrian express routes the only buses that frequently appear and are in need of replacement soon are 1401-3, 4653/9/64 and 7485/7. The vast majority are between 5 and 11 years old with decent interior spec, so while replacement will likely start soon it's by no means essential. 

Majority of the vehicles being used were bought in the last major round of investment and, barring the remaining ex-London deckers, the vast majority can be converted to Euro 6 spec.

Have to agree, apart from those few mentioned that are older, which are supposedly going to be withdrawn in the near future (or possibly transferred) the oldest stuff is only 10 years old, E400s on 43/44/45 are 12 years old but even still compared to some areas, Durham County for example is having to make do with 15 year old London cast offs that have proven to be rather unreliable and an embarrassment especially as they are being subjected to the X93 in the summer months and don't do a particularly good job on it either.

I will agree with other comments about the MPDs, they really should have gone by now or at least been given a bit of TLC at some stage, I will disagree about the Solos though as I don't think they are as bad as they are often made out to be and are actually fairly reliable although I will conceive they could do with a bit of a refresh inside to make them a bit more pleasant to travel on.