(06 Sep 2020, 11:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I do personally find it rather amusing that they go on about drivers being protected behind the screen so they don't have to wear a mask, but they still have the 2m 'safety bubble' for them.
I see absolutely no reason why the seats are still cordoned off. On the Streetlites/Versas, I can understand because they're sideways, but on the E200s, E400s, Citaros and Omnicitys I just think it's a bit over the top

As a passenger You have a choice to move seats or even get off the bus if someone sits close to you, especially if they are not wearing a mask (legitimately or not) or are coughing, sneezing or picking their nose.   As a driver you do not have this option.  Is the safety bubble that over the top?

(07 Sep 2020, 1:18 am)Bazza wrote As a passenger You have a choice to move seats or even get off the bus if someone sits close to you, especially if they are not wearing a mask (legitimately or not) or are coughing, sneezing or picking their nose.   As a driver you do not have this option.  Is the safety bubble that over the top?

There's no reason for it to still be 2m, it should be 1m+ like it is with everyone else. They have the mitigation of being behind a screen.
To paraphrase Adrian, why do drivers get 2m plus mitigations, when passengers are expected to be crammed together without even being 1m apart.

(07 Sep 2020, 8:33 am)streetdeckfan wrote There's no reason for it to still be 2m, it should be 1m+ like it is with everyone else. They have the mitigation of being behind a screen.
To paraphrase Adrian, why do drivers get 2m plus mitigations, when passengers are expected to be crammed together without even being 1m apart.

Drivers are also on a bus for the majority of their working day.  

Your argument is basically one that encourages a race to the bottom.  I’m sure the drivers welcome the increased protection.  What is wrong with their employers allowing this increased protection?  

Passengers have that choice of moving on the bus if room allows, if not they can get off.  Again a driver does not have that opportunity if he wants to keep his job.

Routemaster on the 21 today to assist with social distancing 
https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/13...00000?s=19

(06 Sep 2020, 9:45 pm)Andreos1 wrote To add with what has been said already, I wonder if local events, have any impact?
South Tyneside is on the watch list, Fencehouses has seen a huge upsurge according to the Sunderland Echo.

Assuming S Tyneside locks down and 300 people are self-isolating in Fencehouses, then it could have a major impact on services.
Do you stick a smaller Solo on the 4 to cope with any drop in numbers and allow greater distancing on the 81 etc across Washington by using Mercs?

It was a charity football match at Burnside Club, it's looking quite bleak as it's much more than just Fencehouses. Houghton has been badly affected aswell as I believe someone went on a pub crawl there. Sunderland as a whole is looking poor, much worse than South Tyneside now and I wouldn't be surprised to see a local lockdown there soon.

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/su...05/page-68 - if your interested in Sunderland developments or
https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/bo...446/page-5 - for Boro and S. Tyneside.

Also about the driver stuff, if 1 bus driver catches Covid and he goes into the break room with 10 other drivers, who 1 in there ends up positive who went into another break room with another 10 drivers there won't be a bus service at all very quickly since your 21 drivers short for a week at least. But we can't lose that 1 seat...

(07 Sep 2020, 9:26 am)Storx wrote It was a charity football match at Burnside Club, it's looking quite bleak as it's much more than just Fencehouses. Houghton has been badly affected aswell as I believe someone went on a pub crawl there. Sunderland as a whole is looking poor, much worse than South Tyneside now and I wouldn't be surprised to see a local lockdown there soon.  

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/su...05/page-68 - if your interested in Sunderland developments or
https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/bo...446/page-5 - for Boro and S. Tyneside.

Also about the driver stuff, if 1 bus driver catches Covid and he goes into the break room with 10 other drivers, who 1 in there ends up positive who went into another break room with another 10 drivers there won't be a bus service at all very quickly since your 21 drivers short for a week at least. But we can't lose that 1 seat...

I actually drove past the beer garden of said club on the Sunday evening and both myself and MrsC commented on the crowding at the time. There was no way social distancing or capacity control measures were being adhered to within the period of time it took to drive past. 
Based on that small snapshot, it didn't surprise me at all to see the story emerge over the last few days.
A few schools and local businesses in the area have had to adapt quickly. One local cafe were saying just last night that sit in meals are no more - for the time being anyway.

(07 Sep 2020, 9:08 am)Bazza wrote Drivers are also on a bus for the majority of their working day.  

Your argument is basically one that encourages a race to the bottom.  I’m sure the drivers welcome the increased protection.  What is wrong with their employers allowing this increased protection?  

Passengers have that choice of moving on the bus if room allows, if not they can get off.  Again a driver does not have that opportunity if he wants to keep his job.

I don't begrudge anyone having 2m distance, but my point is that if its deemed a necessary control measure after risk assessment, why isn't that same control measure applied elsewhere?

I don't buy the argument that passengers can just move seats or get off. There are a number of issues with that: a) we're talking about capacity here and specifically every row of seats being taken, b) people cannot exactly play musical buses (in the absence of operators taking customer safety seriously) on the way to work - they'd never get there, and c) I don't believe drivers have the facility to issue part refunds, if you decide to get off the bus early on safety grounds.

Like I say, I don't begrudge drivers (or anyone else) having 2m for safety, but I really dislike hypocrisy.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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(07 Sep 2020, 9:35 am)Andreos1 wrote I actually drove past the beer garden of said club on the Sunday evening and both myself and MrsC commented on the crowding at the time. There was no way social distancing or capacity control measures were being adhered to within the period of time it took to drive past.

Local councillors were quoting 300 in attendance... anyone who knows the club may ask 'how??!'

But this comes back to businesses doing the bare minimum. Very few are looking beyond the £££ signs.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(07 Sep 2020, 9:36 am)Adrian wrote I don't begrudge anyone having 2m distance, but my point is that if its deemed a necessary control measure after risk assessment, why isn't that same control measure applied elsewhere?

I don't buy the argument that passengers can just move seats or get off. There are a number of issues with that: a) we're talking about capacity here and specifically every row of seats being taken, b) people cannot exactly play musical buses (in the absence of operators taking customer safety seriously) on the way to work - they'd never get there, and c) I don't believe drivers have the facility to issue part refunds, if you decide to get off the bus early on safety grounds.

Like I say, I don't begrudge drivers (or anyone else) having 2m for safety, but I really dislike hypocrisy.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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Local councillors were quoting 300 in attendance... anyone who knows the club may ask 'how??!'

But this comes back to businesses doing the bare minimum. Very few are looking beyond the £££ signs. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

As storx said, it was a charity match. I believe between Burnside Club and another. 
Stick it on a warm bank holiday weekend and there's no surprise to see so many people there. 
I certainly couldn't see 300 people rocking up to watch the match though and was genuinely surprised to see so many kicking around in the beer garden. No idea what it was like inside.

Loads of rumours flying around, so not sure what it true and what isn't.

(07 Sep 2020, 9:35 am)Andreos1 wrote I actually drove past the beer garden of said club on the Sunday evening and both myself and MrsC commented on the crowding at the time. There was no way social distancing or capacity control measures were being adhered to within the period of time it took to drive past. 
Based on that small snapshot, it didn't surprise me at all to see the story emerge over the last few days.
A few schools and local businesses in the area have had to adapt quickly. One local cafe were saying just last night that sit in meals are no more - for the time being anyway.

Supposedly it wasn't, there's someone posting on RTG, who's the mate of the person who caused it, and it's supposed to be worse than what's been said so far but he doesn't want to say more as the usual internet trolls are out with pitchforks against the poor kid. I know it's 28 directly from it so far but it's going to be more.

No doubt be another club closed down soon and deservably so.

Supposedly:

Plains farm academy
Pennywell youth project
Mama Mia Italians
Ttonic
Burnside social club
Salt house kitchen
St Roberts School (6th Form yr12/13)
Hastings hill
Red Hairdressers
The Scullery (Pier Point)
Easington Lane Primary School
Shiney primary
Grill n chill (Seaham)
Dubmire nursery

All of those have had cases in the past few days in Sunderland alone aswell and all have been shut and there's more being added all the time.

(07 Sep 2020, 9:36 am)Adrian wrote I don't begrudge anyone having 2m distance, but my point is that if its deemed a necessary control measure after risk assessment, why isn't that same control measure applied elsewhere?

I don't buy the argument that passengers can just move seats or get off. There are a number of issues with that: a) we're talking about capacity here and specifically every row of seats being taken, b) people cannot exactly play musical buses (in the absence of operators taking customer safety seriously) on the way to work - they'd never get there, and c) I don't believe drivers have the facility to issue part refunds, if you decide to get off the bus early on safety grounds.

Like I say, I don't begrudge drivers (or anyone else) having 2m for safety, but I really dislike hypocrisy.

So do you want to increase the risk for the driver because you don’t like hypocrisy?

(07 Sep 2020, 10:05 am)Bazza wrote So do you want to increase the risk for the driver because you don’t like hypocrisy?

No - try reading what I've written?

Especially -

(07 Sep 2020, 9:36 am)Adrian wrote I don't begrudge anyone having 2m distance, but my point is that if its deemed a necessary control measure after risk assessment, why isn't that same control measure applied elsewhere?

and

(07 Sep 2020, 9:36 am)Adrian wrote Like I say, I don't begrudge drivers (or anyone else) having 2m for safety, but I really dislike hypocrisy.

I want customers to have the same levels of protection afforded to them. That doesn't have to be achieved by harmonising downwards elsewhere.

(07 Sep 2020, 10:44 am)Adrian wrote No - try reading what I've written?

Especially -

and


I want customers to have the same levels of protection afforded to them. That doesn't have to be achieved by harmonising downwards elsewhere.

I think the issue is that MG has basically said their main priority is protecting their drivers. It's up to the passengers to sort out amongst themselves what they do social distancing wise, if they all want to sit together, then that's their problem.

(07 Sep 2020, 10:44 am)Adrian wrote No - try reading what I've written?

Especially -

and


I want customers to have the same levels of protection afforded to them. That doesn't have to be achieved by harmonising downwards elsewhere.

I’m pleased you clarified that because it wasn’t clear and other posters seem to suggest that the main problem is the condoning off certain seats.

We certainly agree that ‘harmonising down’ is not necessarily the answer.

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(07 Sep 2020, 10:58 am)streetdeckfan wrote I think the issue is that MG has basically said their main priority is protecting their drivers. It's up to the passengers to sort out amongst themselves what they do social distancing wise, if they all want to sit together, then that's their problem.

Is that a direct quote?   Have you got the original source of that?

(07 Sep 2020, 11:04 am)Bazza wrote Is that a direct quote?   Have you got the original source of that?

He said it a few times in his Facebook Live updates he was doing at the beginning of the lockdown. I'll see if I can dig the exact quote out, but it was something to that effect

(07 Sep 2020, 10:58 am)streetdeckfan wrote I think the issue is that MG has basically said their main priority is protecting their drivers. It's up to the passengers to sort out amongst themselves what they do social distancing wise, if they all want to sit together, then that's their problem.

I’m not sure if that’s a direct quote or not but I’m not planning on using buses any time soon for this precise reason. The impression I get from the managing directors Facebook Lives, passenger comments on social media and reports on here don’t instil me with any confidence that it’s safe. 
People not wearing masks because drivers don’t challenge and social distancing hard to enforce. It’s the same reason I’m doing click and collect and not going into supermarkets or if I do need the shops I go off peak. I’m not particularly vulnerable but I don’t want to pass it on to family or older relatives. 
I also don’t buy this “it’s not shop staff or bus drivers to police masks or social distancing ”. That’s like saying it’s not a barman/barmaid’s job to challenge 25 on alcohol sales, it’s a part of the job!

(07 Sep 2020, 10:58 am)streetdeckfan wrote I think the issue is that MG has basically said their main priority is protecting their drivers. It's up to the passengers to sort out amongst themselves what they do social distancing wise, if they all want to sit together, then that's their problem.

From a customer care point of view that is a very powerful statement.  Not one that should be paraphrased or misquoted.

(07 Sep 2020, 12:42 pm)Drifter60 wrote I’m not sure if that’s a direct quote or not but I’m not planning on using buses any time soon for this precise reason. The impression I get from the managing directors Facebook Lives, passenger comments on social media and reports on here don’t instil me with any confidence that it’s safe. 
People not wearing masks because drivers don’t challenge and social distancing hard to enforce. It’s the same reason I’m doing click and collect and not going into supermarkets or if I do need the shops I go off peak. I’m not particularly vulnerable but I don’t want to pass it on to family or older relatives. 
I also don’t buy this “it’s not shop staff or bus drivers to police masks or social distancing ”. That’s like saying it’s not a barman/barmaid’s job to challenge 25 on alcohol sales, it’s a part of the job!

I was going to have a look and see if i can find the exact quote, but I didn't realise he'd done that many Facebook Lives! I'm sure there was more context to the quote and it's not as bad as I remember it being.

Another way of putting it, one which I've brought up quite a few times is that they'd have no issue enforcing the requirement that passengers pay for their ticket, but asking them to wear a face covering is too much. I get that they can't verify the fact that people are exempt, but they could at least say "Do you have a face covering?" or "You should really be wearing a mask". But from my experience, that just doesn't happen.

I personally don't feel unsafe on the bus, compared to going to places like the MetroCentre or ALDI. Whilst cleanliness standards on board buses has dropped considerably since the beginning of the lockdown, likely due to them carrying more than twice as many passengers, at least they appear to be trying in that regard!

It also probably helps that I'm not petrified of catching COVID like a lot of people are. If I get it I get it, nowt I can really do short of staying in the house for the rest of my life. At some point you have to just 'get over it' and realise it's going to be sticking around for a while and you just have to get on with life!
We need to stop looking at the mortality rate, and start looking at the survival rate.

(07 Sep 2020, 1:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I was going to have a look and see if i can find the exact quote, but I didn't realise he'd done that many Facebook Lives! I'm sure there was more context to the quote and it's not as bad as I remember it being.

Another way of putting it, one which I've brought up quite a few times is that they'd have no issue enforcing the requirement that passengers pay for their ticket, but asking them to wear a face covering is too much. I get that they can't verify the fact that people are exempt, but they could at least say "Do you have a face covering?" or "You should really be wearing a mask". But from my experience, that just doesn't happen.

I personally don't feel unsafe on the bus, compared to going to places like the MetroCentre or ALDI. Whilst cleanliness standards on board buses has dropped considerably since the beginning of the lockdown, likely due to them carrying more than twice as many passengers, at least they appear to be trying in that regard!

It also probably helps that I'm not petrified of catching COVID like a lot of people are. If I get it I get it, nowt I can really do short of staying in the house for the rest of my life. At some point you have to just 'get over it' and realise it's going to be sticking around for a while and you just have to get on with life!
We need to stop looking at the mortality rate, and start looking at the survival rate.

I can't remember the exact wording, but I've noticed the nsa's mention increased or additional cleaning. 
Assuming the vehicle is out from noon until night, I'm unsure when this increased or additional cleaning is actually taking place. 
Does the X1 get a scrub down at Easington Lane? (I've yet to see it happen at Eldon Square).

(07 Sep 2020, 1:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote I can't remember the exact wording, but I've noticed the nsa's mention increased or additional cleaning. 
Assuming the vehicle is out from noon until night, I'm unsure when this increased or additional cleaning is actually taking place. 
Does the X1 get a scrub down at Easington Lane? (I've yet to see it happen at Eldon Square).

There are cleaning staff in place in bus stations - Eldon Square is covered.

(07 Sep 2020, 12:42 pm)Drifter60 wrote I’m not sure if that’s a direct quote or not but I’m not planning on using buses any time soon for this precise reason. The impression I get from the managing directors Facebook Lives, passenger comments on social media and reports on here don’t instil me with any confidence that it’s safe. 
People not wearing masks because drivers don’t challenge and social distancing hard to enforce. It’s the same reason I’m doing click and collect and not going into supermarkets or if I do need the shops I go off peak. I’m not particularly vulnerable but I don’t want to pass it on to family or older relatives. 
I also don’t buy this “it’s not shop staff or bus drivers to police masks or social distancing ”. That’s like saying it’s not a barman/barmaid’s job to challenge 25 on alcohol sales, it’s a part of the job!

I think its worth pointing out that this appears to be rife across multiple operators - its not specific to one operator, and I'd actually say GNE have been one of the better operators in terms of signage and such.

What doesn't help is that the guidelines from Government aren't great. There's too much room for interpretation and in my opinion they aren't strict enough. Face coverings are there to protect others - not the wearer. If someone isn't able to wear a mask for whatever reason, that is fine, but they must remain 2m apart from others. People just don't seem to understand this and that the coverings are mitigation for 1m+

I travelled by LNER last week and I thought what they have done, at least on paper, is spot on. All services requiring a mandatory reservation, then only certain seats being available to book. This is of course all good and well, but then you're told that the Guard will spend the entirety of the journey in their own non-public coach, so in reality seat occupation and face coverings aren't enforced.

On the flip-side of that, you have Transpennine Express. Contained in a laughably named page of 'Keeping You Safe', they state: "Due to social distancing guidelines, there will be space for no more than half the usual number of passengers and it may not be possible to socially distance at all points throughout a journey." They are not forcing seat reservations, restricting capacity or anything else.

I completely understand why drivers aren't challenging this. Certainly from GNE, Arriva and Metro's responses I've seen on Social Media, they're suggesting that they *cannot* enforce this. This is incorrect though - operators do have the powers of enforcement under the regulations, but also points out that they're not obliged to use those powers. So this isn't a case of *cannot* - it's a case of *will not*. If the operators have made that operational decision, then we as customers cannot expect their employees to enforce. I posted about this in another thread.

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(07 Sep 2020, 1:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote I can't remember the exact wording, but I've noticed the nsa's mention increased or additional cleaning. 
Assuming the vehicle is out from noon until night, I'm unsure when this increased or additional cleaning is actually taking place. 
Does the X1 get a scrub down at Easington Lane? (I've yet to see it happen at Eldon Square).

I've found GNE buses and the Metro to be notably cleaner, if I'm honest. Certainly at the start of the day. GNE made quite a good video around it: https://youtu.be/dMcL1Iv2fms

Likewise, National Express have done some good work around it: https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/...assessment

(07 Sep 2020, 1:58 pm)Dan wrote There are cleaning staff in place in bus stations - Eldon Square is covered.

At all times or just certain times?
Only asking as I've been the last one off and first one on. Yet to see anyone cleaning on board.

(07 Sep 2020, 1:58 pm)Dan wrote There are cleaning staff in place in bus stations - Eldon Square is covered.

I've personally never seen a bus get cleaned at Eldon Square, it's always been in and out, unless they're cleaning them elsewhere.

(07 Sep 2020, 2:09 pm)Andreos1 wrote At all times or just certain times?
Only asking as I've been the last one off and first one on. Yet to see anyone cleaning on board.

Inter-peak, when fewer people are in the bus stations and there's generally speaking a bit of extra dwell-time in the schedules. These extra people have been in place since March.

There are now even more staff present, with an extra two cleaners at Gateshead during the day, from this week.

(07 Sep 2020, 1:59 pm)Adrian wrote I think its worth pointing out that this appears to be rife across multiple operators - its not specific to one operator, and I'd actually say GNE have been one of the better operators in terms of signage and such.

What doesn't help is that the guidelines from Government aren't great. There's too much room for interpretation and in my opinion they aren't strict enough. Face coverings are there to protect others - not the wearer. If someone isn't able to wear a mask for whatever reason, that is fine, but they must remain 2m apart from others. People just don't seem to understand this and that the coverings are mitigation for 1m+

I travelled by LNER last week and I thought what they have done, at least on paper, is spot on. All services requiring a mandatory reservation, then only certain seats being available to book. This is of course all good and well, but then you're told that the Guard will spend the entirety of the journey in their own non-public coach, so in reality seat occupation and face coverings aren't enforced.

On the flip-side of that, you have Transpennine Express. Contained in a laughably named page of 'Keeping You Safe', they state: "Due to social distancing guidelines, there will be space for no more than half the usual number of passengers and it may not be possible to socially distance at all points throughout a journey." They are not forcing seat reservations, restricting capacity or anything else. 

I completely understand why drivers aren't challenging this. Certainly from GNE, Arriva and Metro's responses I've seen on Social Media, they're suggesting that they *cannot* enforce this. This is incorrect though - operators do have the powers of enforcement under the regulations, but also points out that they're not obliged to use those powers. So this isn't a case of *cannot* - it's a case of *will not*. If the operators have made that operational decision, then we as customers cannot expect their employees to enforce. I posted about this in another thread.

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I've found GNE buses and the Metro to be notably cleaner, if I'm honest. Certainly at the start of the day. GNE made quite a good video around it: https://youtu.be/dMcL1Iv2fms

Likewise, National Express have done some good work around it: https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/...assessment

I've been on and off public transport since March, using it at times and on days I wouldn't normally.
From the early days when barely anyone was out and about, to more recently when people seem to be getting out more frequently.
I've noticed the change too - with the likes of Northern seemingly doing away with their seat coverings, indicating a row being out of use.

I agree that messages have been vague, mixed up and inconsistent since day 1 and I get that operators are often stuck between a rock and a hard place. But when they're saying cleaning is increased (or whatever combination or phrase they're using) and the public aren't always seeing it, I wonder how much is lip-service or PR.
Messaging, videos and PA messages are all well and good, but I can't help feeling that a visible presence would go a long way to not only providing reassurance, but helping with the increase in numbers that operators crave so much.

(07 Sep 2020, 1:59 pm)Adrian wrote I think its worth pointing out that this appears to be rife across multiple operators - its not specific to one operator, and I'd actually say GNE have been one of the better operators in terms of signage and such.

What doesn't help is that the guidelines from Government aren't great. There's too much room for interpretation and in my opinion they aren't strict enough. Face coverings are there to protect others - not the wearer. If someone isn't able to wear a mask for whatever reason, that is fine, but they must remain 2m apart from others. People just don't seem to understand this and that the coverings are mitigation for 1m+

I travelled by LNER last week and I thought what they have done, at least on paper, is spot on. All services requiring a mandatory reservation, then only certain seats being available to book. This is of course all good and well, but then you're told that the Guard will spend the entirety of the journey in their own non-public coach, so in reality seat occupation and face coverings aren't enforced.

On the flip-side of that, you have Transpennine Express. Contained in a laughably named page of 'Keeping You Safe', they state: "Due to social distancing guidelines, there will be space for no more than half the usual number of passengers and it may not be possible to socially distance at all points throughout a journey." They are not forcing seat reservations, restricting capacity or anything else.

I completely understand why drivers aren't challenging this. Certainly from GNE, Arriva and Metro's responses I've seen on Social Media, they're suggesting that they *cannot* enforce this. This is incorrect though - operators do have the powers of enforcement under the regulations, but also points out that they're not obliged to use those powers. So this isn't a case of *cannot* - it's a case of *will not*. If the operators have made that operational decision, then we as customers cannot expect their employees to enforce. I posted about this in another thread.

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Totally agree with the point that mask wearing is to protect others not the mask wearer. 

To compare the enforcement of mask wearing and fare paying is like comparing apple and pears though. 

if you are on the bus you must have some form of ticket or pass.  There are no real exceptions to this (Not leaving vulnerable people at bus stops is the exception that proves the rule!)

As soon as exemptions were made for mask wearing though, with no need to provide any proof except the passengers word, enforcement became impossible.  Yes, drivers can challenge, but people will either lie, or rely on the fact that if they get on the bus, and the driver contacts the police, it is highly unlikely they will attend in a timely manner.  

if none mask wearers had to provide some sort of official ‘pass’ - properly issued by some authority,  I think you could more or less guarantee that the wearing of face masks would be enforced.  

Don’t blame the operators or their drivers for not enforcing flawed guidelines

(07 Sep 2020, 2:20 pm)Dan wrote Inter-peak, when fewer people are in the bus stations and there's generally speaking a bit of extra dwell-time in the schedules. These extra people have been in place since March.

There are now even more staff present, with an extra two cleaners at Gateshead during the day, from this week.

Park Lane, Eldon Square, Heworth and to a lesser extent the Galleries.
All places I've been to (don't you just love hub and spoke) since March on a fairly frequent basis and places I would expect cleaning to take place. I've not seen anyone.
I'm not saying the cleaning doesn't happen, but see my comments in the reply above to Adrian.

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(07 Sep 2020, 2:15 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I've personally never seen a bus get cleaned at Eldon Square, it's always been in and out, unless they're cleaning them elsewhere.

Glad it's not just me that's not seen it!

(07 Sep 2020, 2:25 pm)Andreos1 wrote Park Lane, Eldon Square, Heworth and to a lesser extent the Galleries.
All places I've been to (don't you just love hub and spoke) since March on a fairly frequent basis and places I would expect cleaning to take place. I've not seen anyone.
I'm not saying the cleaning doesn't happen, but see my comments in the reply above to Adrian.

I don't think anyone is in place at Heworth or The Galleries - most services travel through these bus stations, rather than terminate here. They're definitely in place at Park Lane, Gateshead, Eldon Square and Consett (possibly/probably more, too).

One of the reasons these cleaners are in place are to re-assure passengers, exactly as you state.

I was in Consett Bus Station on 27 August and took 6118 out of service (at approx 1:30pm) with a new bus entering service, and a driver jumped on-board and cleaned the touch-points on the bus... So I have seen it with my own eyes too!

(07 Sep 2020, 2:22 pm)Bazza wrote Totally agree with the point that mask wearing is to protect others not the mask wearer. 

To compare the enforcement of mask wearing and fare paying is like comparing apple and pears though. 

if you are on the bus you must have some form of ticket or pass.  There are no real exceptions to this (Not leaving vulnerable people at bus stops is the exception that proves the rule!)

As soon as exemptions were made for mask wearing though, with no need to provide any proof except the passengers word, enforcement became impossible.  Yes, drivers can challenge, but people will either lie, or rely on the fact that if they get on the bus, and the driver contacts the police, it is highly unlikely they will attend in a timely manner.  

if none mask wearers had to provide some sort of official ‘pass’ - properly issued by some authority,  I think you could more or less guarantee that the wearing of face masks would be enforced.  

Don’t blame the operators or their drivers for not enforcing flawed guidelines

I totally disagree. both are conditions of travel. If you want to travel, you have to pay, and wear a face covering. 
People 'exempt' from paying are those with a concessionary pass, so something similar should be in place for those exempt from wearing a face covering.

I do agree that it's impossible to enforce, but not even having the illusion of enforcement is where the issue lies. If they don't challenge anyone, people are going to continue to avoid wearing them. If they ask you every time you board without wearing one, then soon enough you're going to get sick (hopefully not literally) and just start wearing one.

(07 Sep 2020, 2:28 pm)Dan wrote I don't think anyone is in place at Heworth or The Galleries - most services travel through these bus stations, rather than terminate here. They're definitely in place at Park Lane, Gateshead, Eldon Square and Consett (possibly/probably more, too).

One of the reasons these cleaners are in place are to re-assure passengers, exactly as you state.

I was in Consett Bus Station on 27 August and took 6118 out of service (at approx 1:30pm) with a new bus entering service, and a driver jumped on-board and cleaned the touch-points on the bus... So I have seen it with my own eyes too!

So not at Heworth or the Galleries and presumably not at Concord or Houghton (for the reasons you mentioned above). When do the Mercs on the 4 get their cleaning?

Thinking about the sheer number of vehicles in and out of Eldon Square or Park Lane per hour, the investment in resource to clean these vehicles must be enormous. There must be loads of them scurrying about cleaning. Yet, there's people on here yet to see the work in progress, myself included. Despite that visual reassurance and example you mention.

(06 Sep 2020, 11:19 pm)Adrian wrote It is possible though, but it comes down to an  operators willingness to enforce it. Similar to the facemasks, which I posted about a couple weeks ago, and similar to pubs doing the absolute bare minimum for that matter.

If they can enforce a 2m social distancing at the front of the bus, towards the drivers cab, then its possible to enforce 1m elsewhere on the bus.

Its granted that people walking to and from their seats are going to encroach on others, but this is a lesser risk than someone sitting less than 1m apart from another passenger for a 30 minute journey.

I wonder why the rear half of the bus is deemed to be lower risk than the front half...

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Fewer people passing as they get on and off.