(24 Jan 2021, 11:29 pm)S813 FVK wrote While I agree with a number of the points being made, I do think it's perhaps a bit unfair to be using brands that were designed before any geographical colouring strategy was dreamt up as means to criticise it.

This scheme is going to take some time to roll out fully - there are going to be exceptions to the rules running around the region for a while yet.

Sorry maybe I wasn’t clear, I understand that that Prince Bishops and Coast & Country pre-date this ‘coloured zone’ approach to branding. The point I was trying to make was what do you do with those two routes mentioned which have been purple and green respectively for 10-15 years now? Give them a new colour scheme completely just to fit in with this new idea? Even though, people in Consett, Stanley, Chester-le-Street and Sunderland would (hopefully) identify that the green bus is the 78. Likewise with the 20. And take the Coast & Country service 8. Does it go Red to fit Sunderland’s colour or pink to match Washington? And what colour is Stanley? Never mind the fact the 8 interworks (or used to) with the 78 so you’d need some yellow to represent Consett too. I can’t wait for the new red/green/yellow Coast & Country brand!

(24 Jan 2021, 7:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote If it's not a new thing, why hasn't anyone noticed it before? Too subtle perhaps? Or just flawed?
Why the random mixture of colours that don't correlate to any of the strategy at all and an apparent inconsistency across the fleet? 

The 26/27 branded Geminis are red at the back - so that apparently allows them to qualify for the strategy for the red area (wherever the red area is), yet the 4 branded Mercs are pink at the front - allowing them to qualify for the strategy. But not the back, cos that's blue and despite the back end of some buses being included in some areas - with other parts of the fleet, its the front end.

Some strategy! 

As I've said before, I'd rather (and I'm sure many other passengers across the region would too) to have a network of services that works for me. That takes me to where I need to be, without the need to faff on changing buses and hoping there's some sort of connection within a relatively short period of time.
I'd rather that, than see the operator prioritising repaints and faffing on with the blind displays - swapping formats and ignoring best practice.

A network that works for passengers may get more likes on social media too and not just likes from enthusiasts or even colleagues in other parts of the country - intent on carrying on the apparent industry habit of slapping each other on the back at any given opportunity.

I'm sorry if honest and constructive feedback from a customer perspective shocks.

I completely agree with you. Seems like a dodgy move to make, associating all of the brands to colours of areas that some of them don't even cover. What's even more confusing is why the colour schemes don't match up to the GoZones. You'd think they would do that...

Personally, I used to have so much admiration for Go North East's diverse range of liveries, but that's gradually going out of the window as more of them are discontinued. If they decide to do a massive overhaul to the likes of "Coast & Country", "Black Cats" and "Prince Bishops" — by which I mean they alter the colour schemes or they remove them completely — I'll be well and truly done, which makes me really sad because I’ve been so passionate about GNE for years. "X-lines" and the recent addition of coaches on the X9/X10 were bad enough in my eyes. Genuinely praying that the coaches fail like the others did in the past. Not sorry.

As a design enthusiast, I'm also absolutely sick of seeing the Axiforma typeface plastered all over every bus as well, now; the exact reason I hate Best Impressions, because ironically they give off the worst impression by duplicating the same designs for every company they are commissioned for. Would love to know what happened to the arrangement with Beacon, whose work was actually worthy to look at and promoted some differentiation — and they were a local business.

The last decade or so has seen regular Go North East users become accustomed to associating the routes they use with the livery and brand name that the bus is emblazoned with. They want to know where the bus is going to take them, which route branding plays a key part in. Taking those brands and their route information away from the sides of the bus — which has now either already been done to, or proposed to, 24 brands and counting since the 2016 rebrand took place — and giving every vehicle the same look, has the effect of pushing customers away. Why would anyone want to do that? I mean, what the hell happened to the likes of "Loop", "The Waggonway" and "The Blaydon Racer" (black version)?? Do not tell me they were irrelevant for the routes they covered. Now they're all red, yellow and blue. Boring man. I could go on, and on, and on. Literally.

Also totally agree with you on the way in which the individual areas are being represented. "Crusader"/"CityRider" red colour at the back yet "Connections 4" pink at the front? Makes no sense.

Don't even get me started on the blind displays; they’re my biggest pet peeve right now. As far as I see it, what they're now doing — by swapping the number onto the offside AND introducing different sizes to vehicles, i.e. the Yutongs — is ridiculous. Why, after years of the sizes being roughly the same and the numbers being on the nearside face, are they being changed? To copy Transdev? Wow. Because their format is really attractive. Not. Not to mention how all of this has now upset the fleet as loads of the buses have the white section and require the number where it was. Just change it back, or cut the black glazing to allow more of the blinds to be seen at the side. The Citaros and Solos certainly don’t need them on the other side.

Go North East have become this operator that is either copying everyone else through using “Best” Impressions, or trying way too hard to stand out from other local operators with their inverted destination display format. It really is nonsense. Sorry Dan, if you’re reading this, but my enthusiasm for GNE's future is teetering, and I mean it: that was a lot of enthusiasm.

(25 Jan 2021, 2:05 am)BeachBoy99 wrote (snipped) 

I totally agree. There's a few things which Best Impressions gets right, such as the smaller details which are often overlooked by other studios (stickers, interiors, timetables and in a lot of cases they're a bit tidier too).

But their 'ideas' are repetitive and boring, this isn't a new thing. I spotted designs from 1998 which had the same format or background image for three different operators serving Heathrow! Beacon, although didn't have the best 'finish' did bring a lot of ideas and seemed to know the area a lot better. There wasn't an anti-car agenda or a focus on promoting green credentials from them either. Slogans like "go the greener way" or "it's posher than your car" isn't going to wash with car drivers, people marketing public transport needs to see the benefits from both sides as well as the perception of current and future customers, not the silly clichés which are going around...

I think Best Impressions relies on naivety and a lack of expertise from their clients to survive, people who care and work in design see straight through their c**p.

(25 Jan 2021, 2:05 am)BeachBoy99 wrote I completely agree with you. Seems like a dodgy move to make, associating all of the brands to colours of areas that some of them don't even cover. What's even more confusing is why the colour schemes don't match up to the GoZones. You'd think they would do that...

Personally, I used to have so much admiration for Go North East's diverse range of liveries, but that's gradually going out of the window as more of them are discontinued. If they decide to do a massive overhaul to the likes of "Coast & Country", "Black Cats" and "Prince Bishops" — by which I mean they alter the colour schemes or they remove them completely — I'll be well and truly done, which makes me really sad because I’ve been so passionate about GNE for years. "X-lines" and the recent addition of coaches on the X9/X10 were bad enough in my eyes. Genuinely praying that the coaches fail like the others did in the past. Not sorry.

As a design enthusiast, I'm also absolutely sick of seeing the Axiforma typeface plastered all over every bus as well, now; the exact reason I hate Best Impressions, because ironically they give off the worst impression by duplicating the same designs for every company they are commissioned for. Would love to know what happened to the arrangement with Beacon, whose work was actually worthy to look at and promoted some differentiation — and they were a local business.

The last decade or so has seen regular Go North East users become accustomed to associating the routes they use with the livery and brand name that the bus is emblazoned with. They want to know where the bus is going to take them, which route branding plays a key part in. Taking those brands and their route information away from the sides of the bus — which has now either already been done to, or proposed to, 24 brands and counting since the 2016 rebrand took place — and giving every vehicle the same look, has the effect of pushing customers away. Why would anyone want to do that? I mean, what the hell happened to the likes of "Loop", "The Waggonway" and "The Blaydon Racer" (black version)?? Do not tell me they were irrelevant for the routes they covered. Now they're all red, yellow and blue. Boring man. I could go on, and on, and on. Literally.

Also totally agree with you on the way in which the individual areas are being represented. "Crusader"/"CityRider" red colour at the back yet "Connections 4" pink at the front? Makes no sense.

Don't even get me started on the blind displays; they’re my biggest pet peeve right now. As far as I see it, what they're now doing — by swapping the number onto the offside AND introducing different sizes to vehicles, i.e. the Yutongs — is ridiculous. Why, after years of the sizes being roughly the same and the numbers being on the nearside face, are they being changed? To copy Transdev? Wow. Because their format is really attractive. Not. Not to mention how all of this has now upset the fleet as loads of the buses have the white section and require the number where it was. Just change it back, or cut the black glazing to allow more of the blinds to be seen at the side. The Citaros and Solos certainly don’t need them on the other side.

Go North East have become this operator that is either copying everyone else through using “Best” Impressions, or trying way too hard to stand out from other local operators with their inverted destination display format. It really is nonsense. Sorry Dan, if you’re reading this, but my enthusiasm for GNE's future is teetering, and I mean it: that was a lot of enthusiasm.

I don't disagree with anything you said there.
And to be honest, I'm going the same way my enthusiasm for GNE, they used to be 'fun', now they're just like Arriva and Stagecoach.

(25 Jan 2021, 12:21 am)Drifter60 wrote Sorry maybe I wasn’t clear, I understand that that Prince Bishops and Coast & Country pre-date this ‘coloured zone’ approach to branding. The point I was trying to make was what do you do with those two routes mentioned which have been purple and green respectively for 10-15 years now? Give them a new colour scheme completely just to fit in with this new idea? Even though, people in Consett, Stanley, Chester-le-Street and Sunderland would (hopefully) identify that the green bus is the 78. Likewise with the 20. And take the Coast & Country service 8. Does it go Red to fit Sunderland’s colour or pink to match Washington? And what colour is Stanley? Never mind the fact the 8 interworks (or used to) with the 78 so you’d need some yellow to represent Consett too. I can’t wait for the new red/green/yellow Coast & Country brand!

I get you now. I think I might have just inferred the wrong thing from the original post.

On another note and I know the essence of it belongs in another thread, but where has the like button gone? Quite a few posts being made here worthy of acknowledgement but not necessarily a reply.

(25 Jan 2021, 12:21 am)Drifter60 wrote Sorry maybe I wasn’t clear, I understand that that Prince Bishops and Coast & Country pre-date this ‘coloured zone’ approach to branding. The point I was trying to make was what do you do with those two routes mentioned which have been purple and green respectively for 10-15 years now? Give them a new colour scheme completely just to fit in with this new idea? Even though, people in Consett, Stanley, Chester-le-Street and Sunderland would (hopefully) identify that the green bus is the 78. Likewise with the 20. And take the Coast & Country service 8. Does it go Red to fit Sunderland’s colour or pink to match Washington? And what colour is Stanley? Never mind the fact the 8 interworks (or used to) with the 78 so you’d need some yellow to represent Consett too. I can’t wait for the new red/green/yellow Coast & Country brand!

Nah, they wouldn't do that. Just see the comments from last week regarding the 56 and the reason it apparently stayed orange.
People associate an orange bus as the stopping bus on Old Durham Road apparently. 

So using the same logic, people associate the green bus as the 78 and the purple one as the 20 (like you say) and as a result, they will continue to stay those colours.
Totally negating the whole point of the 'strategy'.

---

(24 Jan 2021, 11:28 pm)mb134 wrote Surely this should be the job of a corporate livery? 

Majority of the non-enthusiast bus users would be able to know the difference between Arriva (blue) and Stagecoach (beachball/new corporate) if they were the two operators in their area, for example. It baffles me that GNE would go "nah, we've got a decent corporate livery, but what will really work is to paint everything into the rainbow again", it seems a tad confusing given how they seemed to very much be on the path of cutting unneccessary brands and bringing everything into a few defined styles (X-Lines, corporate/Crusader etc stripes, Voltra/Quayity swoop).

It also begs the question of what happens to corporate liveried vehicles operating in, for example, the green or orange zone? Do GNE not want that bus to be associated with them?

I wonder if Mr. Stenning was struggling for income over the pandemic, he can't be now!  

That or someone was extremely bored! 

Taking a step aside, I am genuinely surprised at the flack Stenning gets. 
I've never met the bloke, but assume he's a decent fella who has his opinions like everyone else. 
I do get the points about the designs being very similar - whichever operator a design picks. 

However, I'm struggling to get my head around the amount of work his studio gets from across the industry. It can't just be a serious case of nepotism? Surely?

---

(25 Jan 2021, 2:05 am)BeachBoy99 wrote I completely agree with you. Seems like a dodgy move to make, associating all of the brands to colours of areas that some of them don't even cover. What's even more confusing is why the colour schemes don't match up to the GoZones. You'd think they would do that... 

Personally, I used to have so much admiration for Go North East's diverse range of liveries, but that's gradually going out of the window as more of them are discontinued. If they decide to do a massive overhaul to the likes of "Coast & Country", "Black Cats" and "Prince Bishops" — by which I mean they alter the colour schemes or they remove them completely — I'll be well and truly done, which makes me really sad because I’ve been so passionate about GNE for years. "X-lines" and the recent addition of coaches on the X9/X10 were bad enough in my eyes. Genuinely praying that the coaches fail like the others did in the past. Not sorry.

As a design enthusiast, I'm also absolutely sick of seeing the Axiforma typeface plastered all over every bus as well, now; the exact reason I hate Best Impressions, because ironically they give off the worst impression by duplicating the same designs for every company they are commissioned for. Would love to know what happened to the arrangement with Beacon, whose work was actually worthy to look at and promoted some differentiation — and they were a local business.

The last decade or so has seen regular Go North East users become accustomed to associating the routes they use with the livery and brand name that the bus is emblazoned with. They want to know where the bus is going to take them, which route branding plays a key part in. Taking those brands and their route information away from the sides of the bus — which has now either already been done to, or proposed to, 24 brands and counting since the 2016 rebrand took place — and giving every vehicle the same look, has the effect of pushing customers away. Why would anyone want to do that? I mean, what the hell happened to the likes of "Loop", "The Waggonway" and "The Blaydon Racer" (black version)?? Do not tell me they were irrelevant for the routes they covered. Now they're all red, yellow and blue. Boring man. I could go on, and on, and on. Literally.

Also totally agree with you on the way in which the individual areas are being represented. "Crusader"/"CityRider" red colour at the back yet "Connections 4" pink at the front? Makes no sense.

Don't even get me started on the blind displays; they’re my biggest pet peeve right now. As far as I see it, what they're now doing — by swapping the number onto the offside AND introducing different sizes to vehicles, i.e. the Yutongs — is ridiculous. Why, after years of the sizes being roughly the same and the numbers being on the nearside face, are they being changed? To copy Transdev? Wow. Because their format is really attractive. Not. Not to mention how all of this has now upset the fleet as loads of the buses have the white section and require the number where it was. Just change it back, or cut the black glazing to allow more of the blinds to be seen at the side. The Citaros and Solos certainly don’t need them on the other side.

Go North East have become this operator that is either copying everyone else through using “Best” Impressions, or trying way too hard to stand out from other local operators with their inverted destination display format. It really is nonsense. Sorry Dan, if you’re reading this, but my enthusiasm for GNE's future is teetering, and I mean it: that was a lot of enthusiasm.

Yeah, someone else mentioned that the other day. The more I've thought about it - the more it seems to make sense.

A missed opportunity perhaps? Or just another flaw in the strategy?

I agree that little buses that serve one area would be good as one colour, for example little pinks. The pinks would only be in one area and not cross boundaries.

So basically it would suit indigo services I think.

(25 Jan 2021, 9:35 am)idiot wrote I agree that little buses that serve one area would be good as one colour, for example little pinks. The pinks would only be in one area and not cross boundaries.

So basically it would suit indigo services I think.

...which is largely what the strategy is, but sadly the perception seems to be that it's either black or white and no in between!

There may be a subtle nod to one of the colours on cross-boundary services; such as how Cityrider and Crusader includes red at the rear, Cobalt & Coast includes blue at the rear, and Connections4 includes pink at the front, but it's not the be all and end all, 'farce' and 'flawed strategy' that it's being made out to be, due to a very small reference included within an internal team briefing.

(25 Jan 2021, 10:35 am)Dan wrote ...which is largely what the strategy is, but sadly the perception seems to be that it's either black or white and no in between!

There may be a subtle nod to one of the colours on cross-boundary services; such as how Cityrider and Crusader includes red at the rear, Cobalt & Coast includes blue at the rear, and Connections4 includes pink at the front, but it's not the be all and end all, 'farce' and 'flawed strategy' that it's being made out to be, due to a very small reference included within an internal team briefing.

I actually like the idea of colour coordinating areas, the fact that people can't see the middle ground you're trying to do with like you say Cobalt&Coast, Crusader,CityRider and Connections 4 is beyond me. 

However I do not understand why on all those routes above (except Connections 4), are the area colours at the back with the colour branding prior to new format at the front, whereas on connections 4 the pink is at Front and blue at the back. I mean don't get me wrong I like the new connections 4 better than the current one it just confuses me why the colours are opposite.

(25 Jan 2021, 10:35 am)Dan wrote ...which is largely what the strategy is, but sadly the perception seems to be that it's either black or white and no in between!

There may be a subtle nod to one of the colours on cross-boundary services; such as how Cityrider and Crusader includes red at the rear, Cobalt & Coast includes blue at the rear, and Connections4 includes pink at the front, but it's not the be all and end all, 'farce' and 'flawed strategy' that it's being made out to be, due to a very small reference included within an internal team briefing.

I realise we are getting in to eezypeazy levels of splitting hairs here, but there's either a scheme with a uniform identity for local areas or not at all.
If there's some sort of middle bit or 'in-between', then isn't it flawed? It's either one or the other, not a bit of everything. 

Some buses in the 2 year old strategy are going to all one colour, some have hints at the rear and some have their entire front end coloured.
Then you have other brands, such as those seen on the express network (which sometimes ties in with the operating area - more often not), specific route branding as seen on the 21 or 78 (which in the case of the 21 works for a small portion of its route - tying in with Gateshead colours) and unique branding as seen on the 53/54 or on the Q3.
Or, you have the corporate id which has no links to specific operating areas whatsoever.

Diluting brands or corporate identity was discussed at length in the past. Which brand or identity is being diluted here? Cos as far as I'm concerned, if there is any diluting of brand or corporate identity - then the strategy is flawed.

I'm looking at this from the outside in and I'm struggling to see anything other than a farce.

I've seen mention elsewhere on the forum that perfectly usable, functional tables are being replaced - but yet people can't get to hospitals or important appointments without having to faff on with changing buses.
I'm seeing DDA best practice ignored with regard to the blinds - but yet people can't get home from work using public transport cos the buses head off to the depot early in the evening.
I'm seeing complaining from senior stakeholders that the public purse needs to spend more on bus priority measures - but there's a chain of different numbered buses following each other for miles, carrying nowt but fresh air.

Howay man. Priorities and all that.

(25 Jan 2021, 10:35 am)Dan wrote ...which is largely what the strategy is, but sadly the perception seems to be that it's either black or white and no in between!

There may be a subtle nod to one of the colours on cross-boundary services; such as how Cityrider and Crusader includes red at the rear, Cobalt & Coast includes blue at the rear, and Connections4 includes pink at the front, but it's not the be all and end all, 'farce' and 'flawed strategy' that it's being made out to be, due to a very small reference included within an internal team briefing.

It's about how obvious this strategy is, yes us enthusiast may notice it's all meant to be colour coded but the average person won't. Looking at Sunderland, many of the services are already red, but the buses that stand out are the different coloured ones; the Purple, Orange & Blue ones. I've seen plenty a time when people refer to the 20 as "the purple bus". Are you going to slap a bit of red at the back of some of those? I'd hope not. The colour combination would be horrible. 

This is also completely different to the corporate identity that was talked about for a long time with the Roadstripes making it clear what a GNE bus was - yet the Q3 has received a special swoop even though it's just an ordinary bus route with ordinary buses that coincidentally go to a new housing area (despite how much you try to make it special). It just doesn't look like a GNE bus unless they spot the little GNE logo on the side. X lines is fine, you've still got the roadstripes (just in the opposite direction) and VOLTRA  I can make an exception as a "special electric bus".

EDIT: I've just seen Andreos1's post, which is very similar to what I've said!"

(25 Jan 2021, 10:35 am)Dan wrote ...which is largely what the strategy is, but sadly the perception seems to be that it's either black or white and no in between!

There may be a subtle nod to one of the colours on cross-boundary services; such as how Cityrider and Crusader includes red at the rear, Cobalt & Coast includes blue at the rear, and Connections4 includes pink at the front, but it's not the be all and end all, 'farce' and 'flawed strategy' that it's being made out to be, due to a very small reference included within an internal team briefing.

But having a local livery/core colour scheme for the minibus routes isn’t anything new, certainly much longer than the two years mentioned. East Durham/North Tyne Links/Venture did that going back (approx) ten years ago. No criticism from me on that policy. But it’s impossible to do it any further that that, realistically, that’s the point. How on earth you try to tie that in with every other bus in a town/area is flawed. 

Connections 4 going blue/pink might having very subtle references in very limited sections to the soon to be Little Pinks 84 route (Concord Bus Station & Lingey Lane being the only two common sections) but that’s it. I’m not sure anyone in Washington is going to think the Connection 4 having a bit of pink means it’s anymore a Go North East bus than the currently red Black Cats 2/2A buses or the gold/red X-lines X1. 

Also ‘Little Pinks’. As someone who isn’t massively fan of ‘Little Coasters’ as a concept you can guess my opinion on that one. One question where is the Big Pink? ‘Little Coasters’ works (although personally not a fan of that naming strategy) because of the ‘main’ or ‘Big’ Coaster 1 service which goes further afield. There is no big pink in Washington. And if Connections 4 is meant to do that, well it’s not even prominently pink? The new livery looks 70% blue. And also doesn’t reference ‘pink’ in its brand name. It’s almost as if indiGo had to go at all costs, for whatever reason, and no one had any other ideas. *EDIT: I’ve got mixed up with the buses! All this talk of colours 

But if we’re taking it too literally, and routes such as Prince Bishops, Coast & Country, Drifter won’t necessarily have a forced colour change, then I don’t know how else to take it, that’s in any way different to how branding worked previously?

What happened to sticking a bus number and destination on the front, sides and back of the bus? All this orange for this green for that. Get them all back in corporate colours and running a decent service. You cant tell me people have dumped there car cos the 56 six became fab and looked like a bigger version of a ford focus st? or that the purple prince bishops got people onto the buses in Durham??/ and i dread to think of the cost of painting re painting this costs. Put them all in red and bulk buy the paint!

and just to add there is nothing worse than seeing a green angle bus coming towards you only for wen it gets closer the DESTINATION screen say hexham and its the 10! well except a NIS sign just so the buses can catch up but sod those waiting in the rain.

(25 Jan 2021, 2:29 pm)Drifter60 wrote Also ‘Little Pinks’. As someone who isn’t massively fan of ‘Little Coasters’ as a concept you can guess my opinion on that one. One question where is the Big Pink? ‘Little Coasters’ works (although personally not a fan of that naming strategy) because of the ‘main’ or ‘Big’ Coaster 1 service which goes further afield. There is no big pink in Washington. And if Connections 4 is meant to do that, well it’s not even prominently pink? The new livery looks 70% blue. And also doesn’t reference ‘pink’ in its brand name. It’s almost as if indiGo had to go at all costs, for whatever reason, and no one had any other ideas.

70% blue? More like 70% pink! (..which, might I add, has just been the subject of criticism, as the pink colour for Washington is on the front instead of the back?!?!)

Dear me.

(25 Jan 2021, 3:15 pm)Dan wrote 70% blue? More like 70% pink! (..which, might I add, has just been the subject of criticism, as the pink colour for Washington is on the front instead of the back?!?!)

Dear me.

Some people are never happy...hopefully Prince Bishop wont change too much when the time comes. Always been one of the best

(25 Jan 2021, 3:15 pm)Dan wrote 70% blue? More like 70% pink! (..which, might I add, has just been the subject of criticism, as the pink colour for Washington is on the front instead of the back?!?!)

Dear me.

Dan.

Just a quick question. Not complaining about the colours or livery however how will this work when depots operate services outside of their areas . I'm thinking the 5/50 operated by Washington which is pink but the 5 solely operates in South Tyneside which is red.   Or because this interworks with the 50 which operates into Washington is this then deemed as acceptable?.

(25 Jan 2021, 3:50 pm)ifm001 wrote Dan.

Just a quick question. Not complaining about the colours or livery however how will this work when depots operate services outside of their areas . I'm thinking the 5/50 operated by Washington which is pink but the 5 solely operates in South Tyneside which is red.   Or because this interworks with the 50 which operates into Washington is this then deemed as acceptable?.

The 5 and 50 aren't branded services, and no immediate plans for them to be re-branded. As I say, this isn't a new strategy, and the Scania OmniCitys on this service lost their dedicated route branding in favour of fleet livery in the two years of this strategy being in place.

As I said before, it was a bit of an off-the-cuff remark in an internal team briefing, so staff were aware of one of the reasons behind buses being repainted and refurbished. Clearly it was always going to 'get out' into enthusiast circles (even more so after Martijn posted a screenshot of the memo on social media), but I don't think the comment was ever meant to be taken quite so literally, and dissected and analysed to the extent it has been.

(25 Jan 2021, 3:50 pm)ifm001 wrote Dan.

Just a quick question. Not complaining about the colours or livery however how will this work when depots operate services outside of their areas . I'm thinking the 5/50 operated by Washington which is pink but the 5 solely operates in South Tyneside which is red.   Or because this interworks with the 50 which operates into Washington is this then deemed as acceptable?.

This is where I was accused of thinking too literally. 

Or, (as I think) you've raised a valid question which shows just one of the many flaws in the strategy. 
Maybe they're gonna paint it rainbow colour as it obviously goes in to Chester too and continues in to Durham.

Regarding Ray Stenning, I've seen him at Showbus a few years ago and I still have nightmares. He dresses like his bus liveries and was going around showbus with shorts that looked more like Y Fronts.

Also I remember when he was tasked to rebrand Oxford Bus Company, he instructed them that theyshould paint the corridors in the offices of the new depot under construction at the time bright orange.

(25 Jan 2021, 6:10 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Regarding Ray Stenning, I've seen him at Showbus a few years ago and I still have nightmares. He dresses like his bus liveries and was going around showbus with shorts that looked more like Y Fronts.

Also I remember when he was tasked to rebrand Oxford Bus Company, he instructed them that theyshould paint the corridors in the offices of the new depot under construction at the time bright orange.

Why should you concern yourself with how people dress? It's no ines business but their own!

(25 Jan 2021, 3:15 pm)Dan wrote 70% blue? More like 70% pink! (..which, might I add, has just been the subject of criticism, as the pink colour for Washington is on the front instead of the back?!?!)

Dear me.

My apologies Dan, colours round the wrong way, you got me! 

Interesting you didn’t reply to any of the other points raised ?

(25 Jan 2021, 7:40 pm)JP6004 wrote Why should you concern yourself with how people dress? It's no ines business but their own!

Well it's also no concern of yours on how I form opinions of someone.

I'm sure he's a nice person to chat to even though he's rehashing old ideas to sell to other bus companies. I bet in a few years there be something similar to X Lines appearing elsewhere.

(25 Jan 2021, 8:53 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Well it's also no concern of yours on how I form opinions of someone.

I'm sure he's a nice person to chat to even though he's rehashing old ideas to sell to other bus companies. I bet in a few years there be something similar to X Lines appearing elsewhere.

Well actually, judging someone by the way they look would be classed as bullying. I make it my business to stand up for anyone who is bullied and cannot defend themselves.
I'm sure you wouldnt like it if someone made derogatory comments about the way you are

(25 Jan 2021, 9:14 pm)JP6004 wrote Well actually, judging someone by the way they look would be classed as bullying. I make it my business to stand up for anyone who is bullied and cannot defend themselves.
I'm sure you wouldnt like it if someone made derogatory comments about the way you are

Huh, the amount of abuse I've had over the years, it's nowt new. Abuse from customers, former friends, strangers, randoms etc. I don't give a flying feather anymore. I know people talk behind my back, no doubt people be having a good laugh at this little tirade, but let them get on with it. I just don't care, they don't know me.

(25 Jan 2021, 9:38 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Huh, the amount of abuse I've had over the years, it's nowt new. Abuse from customers, former friends, strangers, randoms etc. I don't give a flying feather anymore. I know people talk behind my back, no doubt people be having a good laugh at this little tirade, but let them get on with it. I just don't care, they don't know me.

Just because you have been subject to it, does not give you the right to do the same to others

(25 Jan 2021, 10:05 pm)JP6004 wrote Just because you have been subject to it, does not give you the right to do the same to others

I don't know who you think you are, but I don't give a damn about your sodding opinion or even going to listen to you. I'm going to do what I do to the vast majority of enthusiasts in this area and just ignore you like the rest of them. I live my life how I want to, no one is tells me how I should live it. I'm saying no more on this matter as you're boring me now.

(26 Jan 2021, 12:43 am)Rapidsnap wrote I don't know who you think you are, but I don't give a damn about your sodding opinion or even going to listen to you. I'm going to do what I do to the vast majority of enthusiasts in this area and just ignore you like the rest of them. I live my life how I want to, no one is tells me how I should live it. I'm saying no more on this matter as you're boring me now.

Then I suggest, if you cant treat people with respect, then dont say anything at all

(25 Jan 2021, 7:50 pm)Drifter60 wrote My apologies Dan, colours round the wrong way, you got me! 

Interesting you didn’t reply to any of the other points raised ?

I had nothing to respond to any of the other points that you raised. The section of your response that I quoted inferred further reasoning for your opinion that this branding strategy is flawed (in that there is no 'big pink' bus in Washington, because the one that is big and pink, is only 30% pink). Your reasoning was actually flawed itself.

Whilst I still maintain that the original comment has been taken too literally, some of the points Andreos1 in particular has raised are interesting, and are less subjective. Though I haven't responded to them either, on the basis that I had nothing further to contribute to the debate (and gone are the days where we'd have hours upon hours of differing opinions with no 'proper' debate), it would be interesting to see whether he'd be willing to anonymously ask some of these questions to Martijn as part of Go North East's live Q&A session planned for Global Community Engagement Day:
https://newsroom.gonortheast.co.uk/news/...ary-419678

(26 Jan 2021, 10:02 am)Dan wrote I had nothing to respond to any of the other points that you raised. The section of your response that I quoted inferred further reasoning for your opinion that this branding strategy is flawed (in that there is no 'big pink' bus in Washington, because the one that is big and pink, is only 30% pink). Your reasoning was actually flawed itself.

Whilst I still maintain that the original comment has been taken too literally, some of the points Andreos1 in particular has raised are interesting, and are less subjective. Though I haven't responded to them either, on the basis that I had nothing further to contribute to the debate (and gone are the days where we'd have hours upon hours of differing opinions with no 'proper' debate), it would be interesting to see whether he'd be willing to anonymously ask some of these questions to Martijn as part of Go North East's live Q&A session planned for Global Community Engagement Day:
https://newsroom.gonortheast.co.uk/news/...ary-419678

I may do.
But knowing that points are read and some discussed internally is enough for me.
I don't really have the desire to ask the same question or raise the same points in more than one setting at this stage. 

Someone mentioned that my name was mentioned (on one of the live events that you and MG did) in relation to the retro liveries for the Levante's and I'd not submitted a question then either. So maybe this issue will get a mention anyway. 

In summary: There is a strategy which is apparently two years old and involves painting some vehicles in a colour scheme which aligns to a specific area. Some vehicles are painted entirely in that colour, some have a nod to it in their rear and some at the front. 
Some don't have any links to the area and will maintain the corporate identity.
Some will have separate branded liveries.
Some will have the express livery and in the main, it won't tie in with the colour scheme of the area. 
Then there's the 'special' liveries as seen on the likes of the 53/54 or Q3.

There's perfectly usable tables being replaced.
Best practice is being ignored on blind displays. 

My thoughts are that the focus should be on improving the network and the routes on offer, improving links to key destinations and seeing natural growth - rather than spending time, effort and whatever else on painting schemes, table replacement projects, seeking out likes on social media and hunting for a load of back-patting from colleagues with other operators.
A scheme to roll-out links to local areas (could) tie in with the zonal system and to be fully effective, needs to be embedded across the whole fleet. Not just a couple of vehicles from each depot.
Ownership and responsibility seems to be taken with regard to all of the titavating which goes on, but I'm yet to see any actual ownership taken with regard to network and route improvements. I just see finger pointing alongside accusing looks and comments directed in the way of LA's.

I would have thought that all of these online engagement events (which I'm a fan of in principle) would have seen similar sorts of feedback. Unless it's the 'wrong type' of audience and those points aren't being raised.

(26 Jan 2021, 10:02 am)Dan wrote I had nothing to respond to any of the other points that you raised. The section of your response that I quoted inferred further reasoning for your opinion that this branding strategy is flawed (in that there is no 'big pink' bus in Washington, because the one that is big and pink, is only 30% pink). Your reasoning was actually flawed itself.

Whilst I still maintain that the original comment has been taken too literally, some of the points Andreos1 in particular has raised are interesting, and are less subjective. Though I haven't responded to them either, on the basis that I had nothing further to contribute to the debate (and gone are the days where we'd have hours upon hours of differing opinions with no 'proper' debate), it would be interesting to see whether he'd be willing to anonymously ask some of these questions to Martijn as part of Go North East's live Q&A session planned for Global Community Engagement Day:
https://newsroom.gonortheast.co.uk/news/...ary-419678

Well then I think you’ve missed the overall point, taken one mistake on my part to discount the rest of the argument being made. Connections 4 being painted 70% pink doesn’t fix this ‘strategy’. 

Remove the colour of the bus for the second. Little Coaster works because they are a collection of shorter bus services which serve predominantly North Tyneside, the name a clear reference to a bus actually called the “Coaster” which goes further afield to Newcastle City Centre and the MetroCentre. The fact of the matter is there’ll be no route called the “Pink”, despite the fact the company plans on slapping some pink paint on the front of the Connections 4 service, to make it majority pink. So the “Little Pinks” brands doesn’t make sense, yes there’s another pink bus that serves some part of the town but there’s no brand synergy between the two names. Taking the North Tyneside example; Washington’s minibus network should be “Little Connections”. Bring the colour back in, the North Tyneside examples could have been called “Little Blues” then?