New service X11
New service X11
(02 Apr 2021, 10:30 pm)Andreos1 One thing I struggle to get my head around, is the lack of integration with the X9/10.
I'd certainly not want to be the driver of an X11 having to break the news to a queue of passengers in Middlesbrough or Peterlee - that their ticket isn't valid, they need to pay a premium or hang-around until the next X10 rocks up.
Even more so, if I then drive off with a half-empty bus, which has struggled to break even on that particular day.
"yes, I do go to Newcastle. Yes, I was driving the X9 just the other day. Yes, it does have the same brand name on the side as the X10. But no, you can't get on the bus unless you pay a premium, even though I'm half empty and there's plenty of seats left'.
*gets back to the depot and chats to colleagues in the canteen*
"mixed bag today, didn't carry many back. Could have boosted numbers with a few Buzzfare pass holders and then taken a handful of cash fares at Boro and Peterlee, but I wasn't allowed. There was a few punters at Washington that had just missed the 4 to Heworth and the X1 to the town. The next buses weren't for another 30mins, but I didn't let them on".
Bonkers.
(03 Apr 2021, 9:41 am)Dan What would be bonkers, is if this service is so popular, that passengers intending to travel towards Whitby and Scarborough are turned away because X9/X10 passengers are using it as a 'local' service and taking up a valuable seat. The trouble is that it's a huge unknown, and it's important not to forget that buses are currently restricted in capacity.
If the service was an all-day service, providing a combined 20-minute frequency headway with the existing X9 and X10 services, I would agree with you that there should be integration of tickets between the three services. That isn't the case, and in the same vein as the Explorer ticket not being valid, why should passengers with an existing bus service be prioritised over those wanting to use the new link?
(02 Apr 2021, 10:30 pm)Andreos1 One thing I struggle to get my head around, is the lack of integration with the X9/10.
I'd certainly not want to be the driver of an X11 having to break the news to a queue of passengers in Middlesbrough or Peterlee - that their ticket isn't valid, they need to pay a premium or hang-around until the next X10 rocks up.
Even more so, if I then drive off with a half-empty bus, which has struggled to break even on that particular day.
"yes, I do go to Newcastle. Yes, I was driving the X9 just the other day. Yes, it does have the same brand name on the side as the X10. But no, you can't get on the bus unless you pay a premium, even though I'm half empty and there's plenty of seats left'.
*gets back to the depot and chats to colleagues in the canteen*
"mixed bag today, didn't carry many back. Could have boosted numbers with a few Buzzfare pass holders and then taken a handful of cash fares at Boro and Peterlee, but I wasn't allowed. There was a few punters at Washington that had just missed the 4 to Heworth and the X1 to the town. The next buses weren't for another 30mins, but I didn't let them on".
Bonkers.
(03 Apr 2021, 9:41 am)Dan What would be bonkers, is if this service is so popular, that passengers intending to travel towards Whitby and Scarborough are turned away because X9/X10 passengers are using it as a 'local' service and taking up a valuable seat. The trouble is that it's a huge unknown, and it's important not to forget that buses are currently restricted in capacity.
If the service was an all-day service, providing a combined 20-minute frequency headway with the existing X9 and X10 services, I would agree with you that there should be integration of tickets between the three services. That isn't the case, and in the same vein as the Explorer ticket not being valid, why should passengers with an existing bus service be prioritised over those wanting to use the new link?
(03 Apr 2021, 10:44 am)peter I think the problem with this argument is that each point of view can be attributed to each journey. On the journey towards Whitby/Scarborough, like Dan says there would be no point letting on a load of passengers at Newcastle who are only travelling to Washington, Peterlee or Middlesbrough when there are other services available to them, if it meant passengers who were wanting to use the service through to Whitby or Scarborough were being turned away. Because in that case, you might as well just add some extra journeys on the X1 and X9/10.
However on the return journey all the passengers from Whitby/Scarborough board first and so like Andreos says, there would be no harm in picking up some X1 or X9/10 passengers on the way back to Newcastle - your issue there I suppose is that it's of no real benefit for GNE to allow them to board the X11 cause it would, in theory, reduce passenger numbers on the journeys on those services running after the X11. I suppose one might argue that from Middlesbrough onwards the X11 should be to drop passengers off only - but then you're in the realms of a coach service rather than a bus route. In the case of the X9/10 - there is an X10 10 minutes before the X11 and half an hour after - not long to wait really.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:44 am)peter I think the problem with this argument is that each point of view can be attributed to each journey. On the journey towards Whitby/Scarborough, like Dan says there would be no point letting on a load of passengers at Newcastle who are only travelling to Washington, Peterlee or Middlesbrough when there are other services available to them, if it meant passengers who were wanting to use the service through to Whitby or Scarborough were being turned away. Because in that case, you might as well just add some extra journeys on the X1 and X9/10.
However on the return journey all the passengers from Whitby/Scarborough board first and so like Andreos says, there would be no harm in picking up some X1 or X9/10 passengers on the way back to Newcastle - your issue there I suppose is that it's of no real benefit for GNE to allow them to board the X11 cause it would, in theory, reduce passenger numbers on the journeys on those services running after the X11. I suppose one might argue that from Middlesbrough onwards the X11 should be to drop passengers off only - but then you're in the realms of a coach service rather than a bus route. In the case of the X9/10 - there is an X10 10 minutes before the X11 and half an hour after - not long to wait really.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:44 am)peter I think the problem with this argument is that each point of view can be attributed to each journey. On the journey towards Whitby/Scarborough, like Dan says there would be no point letting on a load of passengers at Newcastle who are only travelling to Washington, Peterlee or Middlesbrough when there are other services available to them, if it meant passengers who were wanting to use the service through to Whitby or Scarborough were being turned away. Because in that case, you might as well just add some extra journeys on the X1 and X9/10.
However on the return journey all the passengers from Whitby/Scarborough board first and so like Andreos says, there would be no harm in picking up some X1 or X9/10 passengers on the way back to Newcastle - your issue there I suppose is that it's of no real benefit for GNE to allow them to board the X11 cause it would, in theory, reduce passenger numbers on the journeys on those services running after the X11. I suppose one might argue that from Middlesbrough onwards the X11 should be to drop passengers off only - but then you're in the realms of a coach service rather than a bus route. In the case of the X9/10 - there is an X10 10 minutes before the X11 and half an hour after - not long to wait really.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:44 am)peter I think the problem with this argument is that each point of view can be attributed to each journey. On the journey towards Whitby/Scarborough, like Dan says there would be no point letting on a load of passengers at Newcastle who are only travelling to Washington, Peterlee or Middlesbrough when there are other services available to them, if it meant passengers who were wanting to use the service through to Whitby or Scarborough were being turned away. Because in that case, you might as well just add some extra journeys on the X1 and X9/10.
However on the return journey all the passengers from Whitby/Scarborough board first and so like Andreos says, there would be no harm in picking up some X1 or X9/10 passengers on the way back to Newcastle - your issue there I suppose is that it's of no real benefit for GNE to allow them to board the X11 cause it would, in theory, reduce passenger numbers on the journeys on those services running after the X11. I suppose one might argue that from Middlesbrough onwards the X11 should be to drop passengers off only - but then you're in the realms of a coach service rather than a bus route. In the case of the X9/10 - there is an X10 10 minutes before the X11 and half an hour after - not long to wait really.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:49 am)Dan The only 'harm' is that it would become needlessly complicated - you can't travel southbound on the X11 with your X9/X10 ticket, but you can travel northbound?Surely driver discretion should be allowed. Advertise the X11 as a completely separate service with completely separate ticket prices (as now), but if the average punter is waiting at Middlesbrough or Washington on the return journey and the X11 turns up, there's no harm in the driver letting them on if the capacity is available. Especially if they've just missed an X1 or the previous X10 was cancelled.
This is another example of a barrier which would cause confusion (exactly what Andreos1 is against), so with that in mind, I think we're in agreement that it's better to have the X11 treated completely separately to the X9/X10 for simplicity... Unless, of course, Andreos1 has an argument for leaving Whitby/Scarborough passengers behind, in favour of allowing those with alternative options to travel on the X11 instead.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:49 am)Dan The only 'harm' is that it would become needlessly complicated - you can't travel southbound on the X11 with your X9/X10 ticket, but you can travel northbound?Surely driver discretion should be allowed. Advertise the X11 as a completely separate service with completely separate ticket prices (as now), but if the average punter is waiting at Middlesbrough or Washington on the return journey and the X11 turns up, there's no harm in the driver letting them on if the capacity is available. Especially if they've just missed an X1 or the previous X10 was cancelled.
This is another example of a barrier which would cause confusion (exactly what Andreos1 is against), so with that in mind, I think we're in agreement that it's better to have the X11 treated completely separately to the X9/X10 for simplicity... Unless, of course, Andreos1 has an argument for leaving Whitby/Scarborough passengers behind, in favour of allowing those with alternative options to travel on the X11 instead.
(03 Apr 2021, 11:10 am)Adtrainsam Surely driver discretion should be allowed. Advertise the X11 as a completely separate service with completely separate ticket prices (as now), but if the average punter is waiting at Middlesbrough or Washington on the return journey and the X11 turns up, there's no harm in the driver letting them on if the capacity is available. Especially if they've just missed an X1 or the previous X10 was cancelled.
(03 Apr 2021, 11:10 am)Adtrainsam Surely driver discretion should be allowed. Advertise the X11 as a completely separate service with completely separate ticket prices (as now), but if the average punter is waiting at Middlesbrough or Washington on the return journey and the X11 turns up, there's no harm in the driver letting them on if the capacity is available. Especially if they've just missed an X1 or the previous X10 was cancelled.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:49 am)Dan The only 'harm' is that it would become needlessly complicated - you can't travel southbound on the X11 with your X9/X10 ticket, but you can travel northbound?
This is another example of a barrier which would cause confusion (exactly what Andreos1 is against), so with that in mind, I think we're in agreement that it's better to have the X11 treated completely separately to the X9/X10 for simplicity... Unless, of course, Andreos1 has an argument for leaving Whitby/Scarborough passengers behind, in favour of allowing those with alternative options to travel on the X11 instead.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:49 am)Dan The only 'harm' is that it would become needlessly complicated - you can't travel southbound on the X11 with your X9/X10 ticket, but you can travel northbound?
This is another example of a barrier which would cause confusion (exactly what Andreos1 is against), so with that in mind, I think we're in agreement that it's better to have the X11 treated completely separately to the X9/X10 for simplicity... Unless, of course, Andreos1 has an argument for leaving Whitby/Scarborough passengers behind, in favour of allowing those with alternative options to travel on the X11 instead.
(03 Apr 2021, 11:58 am)Dan And chances are that would be the case (it’s a very small team of drivers operating the service, some of whom have come from the X9/X10 rota) - especially as the X11 will follow ten minutes after an X10, but this would never be advertised in the service’s current form - but Andreos1 wants this to be advertised and fully integrated with the X9/X10.
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(03 Apr 2021, 12:02 pm)streetdeckfan I think a massive point of confusion is just around the branding.
If it's going to be treated completely separately, then why was it called the X11 in the first place?
All it's going to do is make people think it's a regular bus service and their tickets should be valid since it goes the same places as the X1/X9/X10 (ish)
Similarly, as has been pointed out earlier, it'll be allocated the same bus that will be running on the X9/X10 the day before, causing exactly the same confusion with the tickets.
To me, it definitely should have been launched under the Northern Coaching brand rather than with X-Lines branding.
(03 Apr 2021, 11:58 am)Dan And chances are that would be the case (it’s a very small team of drivers operating the service, some of whom have come from the X9/X10 rota) - especially as the X11 will follow ten minutes after an X10, but this would never be advertised in the service’s current form - but Andreos1 wants this to be advertised and fully integrated with the X9/X10.
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(03 Apr 2021, 12:02 pm)streetdeckfan I think a massive point of confusion is just around the branding.
If it's going to be treated completely separately, then why was it called the X11 in the first place?
All it's going to do is make people think it's a regular bus service and their tickets should be valid since it goes the same places as the X1/X9/X10 (ish)
Similarly, as has been pointed out earlier, it'll be allocated the same bus that will be running on the X9/X10 the day before, causing exactly the same confusion with the tickets.
To me, it definitely should have been launched under the Northern Coaching brand rather than with X-Lines branding.
I think people are massively over-thinking this. Its a one-run a day service, clearly designed for a day-trip/tourist market to Whitby and Scarborough.
Not being able to use the X11 as an alternative to the X9/X10 service is not going to piss people off to the point of using the train. There's an X9 that leaves Newcastle 8 minutes earlier, and from a completely different place, and an X10 that leaves 22 minutes later. The walk to Newcastle station, waiting for a once-an-hour train to Middlesbrough (that takes longer! and will cost you £12 return) is hardly worth the tantrum.
It doesn't need to be integrated into an already simple to understand X9/X10 service. There is a frequent enough service between the two destinations and is easy to remember that it departs at xx.02 and xx.32 from Newcastle or xx.15 and xx.45 from Middlesbrough each hour. How do you integrate a one a day service into that? You really can't.
I don't understand the points about branding confusion. The service departs from different places at all the bus stations it serves and the destination will tell you where it's going. If you're suggesting "just because it's Xlines", then what about the X7 Pulsars from Newcastle to Blyth and the X12 Pulsars from Newcastle to Middlesbrough? I'd be surprised if a single customer has ever been confused enough to get those two mixed up.
If you don't want to go to Whitby or Scarborough, then use the existing services and existing ticket range available.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:49 am)Dan The only 'harm' is that it would become needlessly complicated - you can't travel southbound on the X11 with your X9/X10 ticket, but you can travel northbound?
This is another example of a barrier which would cause confusion (exactly what Andreos1 is against), so with that in mind, I think we're in agreement that it's better to have the X11 treated completely separately to the X9/X10 for simplicity... Unless, of course, Andreos1 has an argument for leaving Whitby/Scarborough passengers behind, in favour of allowing those with alternative options to travel on the X11 instead.
(03 Apr 2021, 10:49 am)Dan The only 'harm' is that it would become needlessly complicated - you can't travel southbound on the X11 with your X9/X10 ticket, but you can travel northbound?
This is another example of a barrier which would cause confusion (exactly what Andreos1 is against), so with that in mind, I think we're in agreement that it's better to have the X11 treated completely separately to the X9/X10 for simplicity... Unless, of course, Andreos1 has an argument for leaving Whitby/Scarborough passengers behind, in favour of allowing those with alternative options to travel on the X11 instead.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I don't understand the points about branding confusion. The service departs from different places at all the bus stations it serves and the destination will tell you where it's going. If you're suggesting "just because it's Xlines", then what about the X7 Pulsars from Newcastle to Blyth and the X12 Pulsars from Newcastle to Middlesbrough? I'd be surprised if a single customer has ever been confused enough to get those two mixed up.I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I don't understand the points about branding confusion. The service departs from different places at all the bus stations it serves and the destination will tell you where it's going. If you're suggesting "just because it's Xlines", then what about the X7 Pulsars from Newcastle to Blyth and the X12 Pulsars from Newcastle to Middlesbrough? I'd be surprised if a single customer has ever been confused enough to get those two mixed up.I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I think people are massively over-thinking this. Its a one-run a day service, clearly designed for a day-trip/tourist market to Whitby and Scarborough.
Not being able to use the X11 as an alternative to the X9/X10 service is not going to piss people off to the point of using the train. There's an X9 that leaves Newcastle 8 minutes earlier, and from a completely different place, and an X10 that leaves 22 minutes later. The walk to Newcastle station, waiting for a once-an-hour train to Middlesbrough (that takes longer! and will cost you £12 return) is hardly worth the tantrum.
It doesn't need to be integrated into an already simple to understand X9/X10 service. There is a frequent enough service between the two destinations and is easy to remember that it departs at xx.02 and xx.32 from Newcastle or xx.15 and xx.45 from Middlesbrough each hour. How do you integrate a one a day service into that? You really can't.
I don't understand the points about branding confusion. The service departs from different places at all the bus stations it serves and the destination will tell you where it's going. If you're suggesting "just because it's Xlines", then what about the X7 Pulsars from Newcastle to Blyth and the X12 Pulsars from Newcastle to Middlesbrough? I'd be surprised if a single customer has ever been confused enough to get those two mixed up.
If you don't want to go to Whitby or Scarborough, then use the existing services and existing ticket range available.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:30 pm)Ianthegoon I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I think people are massively over-thinking this. Its a one-run a day service, clearly designed for a day-trip/tourist market to Whitby and Scarborough.
Not being able to use the X11 as an alternative to the X9/X10 service is not going to piss people off to the point of using the train. There's an X9 that leaves Newcastle 8 minutes earlier, and from a completely different place, and an X10 that leaves 22 minutes later. The walk to Newcastle station, waiting for a once-an-hour train to Middlesbrough (that takes longer! and will cost you £12 return) is hardly worth the tantrum.
It doesn't need to be integrated into an already simple to understand X9/X10 service. There is a frequent enough service between the two destinations and is easy to remember that it departs at xx.02 and xx.32 from Newcastle or xx.15 and xx.45 from Middlesbrough each hour. How do you integrate a one a day service into that? You really can't.
I don't understand the points about branding confusion. The service departs from different places at all the bus stations it serves and the destination will tell you where it's going. If you're suggesting "just because it's Xlines", then what about the X7 Pulsars from Newcastle to Blyth and the X12 Pulsars from Newcastle to Middlesbrough? I'd be surprised if a single customer has ever been confused enough to get those two mixed up.
If you don't want to go to Whitby or Scarborough, then use the existing services and existing ticket range available.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:30 pm)Ianthegoon I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:30 pm)Ianthegoon I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.I assume that heading southbound, the front will display "Scarborough via Whitby" or "Whitby and Scarborough" - it won't mention Middlesbrough at all, so no prospect for confusion.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:30 pm)Ianthegoon I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.I assume that heading southbound, the front will display "Scarborough via Whitby" or "Whitby and Scarborough" - it won't mention Middlesbrough at all, so no prospect for confusion.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I think people are massively over-thinking this. Its a one-run a day service, clearly designed for a day-trip/tourist market to Whitby and Scarborough.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:29 pm)peter In my last post I was merely playing devil's advocate by highlighting how each practice could be applied to the service in one direction but not the other, from the point of view of seat availability. Obviously, I do not believe that system should be implemented, like you say it would be far too complicated in terms of ticketing having one rule one way and one rule the other. Although I can see Andreos' point about somebody missing the X10 10 minutes earlier, and being disgruntled about not being allowed on the X11, I guess that would be hard luck, in ordinary circumstances were the X11 not running they would have had to wait the 40 minutes anyway. And so fundamentally I agree it is easier for the X11 to be considered a separate entity. But like others have pointed out it's slightly awkward treating it separately on the one hand, but then branding it X-Lines, using the X9/X10 spare vehicle and numbering it the X11 on the other.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I think people are massively over-thinking this. Its a one-run a day service, clearly designed for a day-trip/tourist market to Whitby and Scarborough.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:29 pm)peter In my last post I was merely playing devil's advocate by highlighting how each practice could be applied to the service in one direction but not the other, from the point of view of seat availability. Obviously, I do not believe that system should be implemented, like you say it would be far too complicated in terms of ticketing having one rule one way and one rule the other. Although I can see Andreos' point about somebody missing the X10 10 minutes earlier, and being disgruntled about not being allowed on the X11, I guess that would be hard luck, in ordinary circumstances were the X11 not running they would have had to wait the 40 minutes anyway. And so fundamentally I agree it is easier for the X11 to be considered a separate entity. But like others have pointed out it's slightly awkward treating it separately on the one hand, but then branding it X-Lines, using the X9/X10 spare vehicle and numbering it the X11 on the other.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:30 pm)Ianthegoon I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.
Welcome to X-lines, your fast, direct bus links from Go North East to get you to work, to the shops, or off for a nice day out.
Buses are comfortable and easy to spot in their smart gold colour scheme. With free Wi-Fi and USB charging on board, great value fares, next-stop announcements and drivers that are helpful and friendly, it really is the best way to go.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:30 pm)Ianthegoon I think the branding confusion point was being made because the X11 and the X9 / X10 share both branding AND destinations - the punter can look at the front, recognise it as "an X-Lines that's going where I want", and attempt to get on.
Welcome to X-lines, your fast, direct bus links from Go North East to get you to work, to the shops, or off for a nice day out.
Buses are comfortable and easy to spot in their smart gold colour scheme. With free Wi-Fi and USB charging on board, great value fares, next-stop announcements and drivers that are helpful and friendly, it really is the best way to go.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:36 pm)streetdeckfan It's not just the livery, it's the branding as a whole.
Here's a hypothetical scenario:
Let's say GNE wanted to run a once a day service from Newcastle to Barnard Castle.
They already have a service called the X21 so they think why not call it the X22 because it goes a similar direction.
It serves Chester le Street, Durham, and even Bishop Auckland along the route, the same as the X21 (albeit a different stand)
They even use the same buses that they use on the X21
But because it's a 'special' service, you can only use X22 tickets on the X22, even on common sections of the route.
I think we can all agree that would be a stupid idea, and would cause major confusion to passengers. So why is it different for the X10 and X11? The number is only incremented by 1 so surely it must just be a normal service!
They could have called it anything, heck even the X69420, but no, they picked X11
(03 Apr 2021, 1:36 pm)streetdeckfan It's not just the livery, it's the branding as a whole.
Here's a hypothetical scenario:
Let's say GNE wanted to run a once a day service from Newcastle to Barnard Castle.
They already have a service called the X21 so they think why not call it the X22 because it goes a similar direction.
It serves Chester le Street, Durham, and even Bishop Auckland along the route, the same as the X21 (albeit a different stand)
They even use the same buses that they use on the X21
But because it's a 'special' service, you can only use X22 tickets on the X22, even on common sections of the route.
I think we can all agree that would be a stupid idea, and would cause major confusion to passengers. So why is it different for the X10 and X11? The number is only incremented by 1 so surely it must just be a normal service!
They could have called it anything, heck even the X69420, but no, they picked X11
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I think people are massively over-thinking this. Its a one-run a day service, clearly designed for a day-trip/tourist market to Whitby and Scarborough.
Not being able to use the X11 as an alternative to the X9/X10 service is not going to piss people off to the point of using the train. There's an X9 that leaves Newcastle 8 minutes earlier, and from a completely different place, and an X10 that leaves 22 minutes later. The walk to Newcastle station, waiting for a once-an-hour train to Middlesbrough (that takes longer! and will cost you £12 return) is hardly worth the tantrum.
It doesn't need to be integrated into an already simple to understand X9/X10 service. There is a frequent enough service between the two destinations and is easy to remember that it departs at xx.02 and xx.32 from Newcastle or xx.15 and xx.45 from Middlesbrough each hour. How do you integrate a one a day service into that? You really can't.
I don't understand the points about branding confusion. The service departs from different places at all the bus stations it serves and the destination will tell you where it's going. If you're suggesting "just because it's Xlines", then what about the X7 Pulsars from Newcastle to Blyth and the X12 Pulsars from Newcastle to Middlesbrough? I'd be surprised if a single customer has ever been confused enough to get those two mixed up.
If you don't want to go to Whitby or Scarborough, then use the existing services and existing ticket range available.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:23 pm)Adrian I think people are massively over-thinking this. Its a one-run a day service, clearly designed for a day-trip/tourist market to Whitby and Scarborough.
Not being able to use the X11 as an alternative to the X9/X10 service is not going to piss people off to the point of using the train. There's an X9 that leaves Newcastle 8 minutes earlier, and from a completely different place, and an X10 that leaves 22 minutes later. The walk to Newcastle station, waiting for a once-an-hour train to Middlesbrough (that takes longer! and will cost you £12 return) is hardly worth the tantrum.
It doesn't need to be integrated into an already simple to understand X9/X10 service. There is a frequent enough service between the two destinations and is easy to remember that it departs at xx.02 and xx.32 from Newcastle or xx.15 and xx.45 from Middlesbrough each hour. How do you integrate a one a day service into that? You really can't.
I don't understand the points about branding confusion. The service departs from different places at all the bus stations it serves and the destination will tell you where it's going. If you're suggesting "just because it's Xlines", then what about the X7 Pulsars from Newcastle to Blyth and the X12 Pulsars from Newcastle to Middlesbrough? I'd be surprised if a single customer has ever been confused enough to get those two mixed up.
If you don't want to go to Whitby or Scarborough, then use the existing services and existing ticket range available.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:48 pm)Andreos1 Except it's not that clear. As has been pointed out umpteen times.
Passengers are passengers. Some more intelligent than others. If there's not very many obvious differences to enthusiasts. Then how are ordinary passengers going to tell the difference?
You can apply all sorts of theories and methodologies to analyse this project and with each one, obvious flaws jump out.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:48 pm)Andreos1 Except it's not that clear. As has been pointed out umpteen times.
Passengers are passengers. Some more intelligent than others. If there's not very many obvious differences to enthusiasts. Then how are ordinary passengers going to tell the difference?
You can apply all sorts of theories and methodologies to analyse this project and with each one, obvious flaws jump out.
I'm confused to why people are complaining that it's numbered X11 because it's next to X9/X10. It's like saying the 20 and 21 or the 27 and 28 are similar routes because they are numbered next to each other but go completely different directions even though they share one area that they both service (Durham 20/21 and Newcastle / Gateshead 27/28). Amazed no one has gone on about saying Arriva has an X11 that runs to Newcastle, what if passengers get confused by that, but then you have to add a number of other routes into the arguement. Basically it's a family size can of worms.
(03 Apr 2021, 2:42 pm)Rapidsnap I'm confused to why people are complaining that it's numbered X11 because it's next to X9/X10. It's like saying the 20 and 21 or the 27 and 28 are similar routes because they are numbered next to each other but go completely different directions even though they share one area that they both service (Durham 20/21 and Newcastle / Gateshead 27/28). Amazed no one has gone on about saying Arriva has an X11 that runs to Newcastle, what if passengers get confused by that, but then you have to add a number of other routes into the arguement. Basically it's a family size can of worms.
(03 Apr 2021, 2:42 pm)Rapidsnap I'm confused to why people are complaining that it's numbered X11 because it's next to X9/X10. It's like saying the 20 and 21 or the 27 and 28 are similar routes because they are numbered next to each other but go completely different directions even though they share one area that they both service (Durham 20/21 and Newcastle / Gateshead 27/28). Amazed no one has gone on about saying Arriva has an X11 that runs to Newcastle, what if passengers get confused by that, but then you have to add a number of other routes into the arguement. Basically it's a family size can of worms.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:52 pm)Dan If the destination display reads "Scarborough via Whitby" on the southbound journey, not referencing Middlesbrough at all, it carries a unique number (i.e. not X9 or X10), all marketing and promotion shows the X11 as being a separate entity (but is promoted as a 'day out' to Whitby and Scarborough along the route), and the service uses different stands in bus stations... How isn't it that clear?
Whilst you're very quick to point out alleged flaws, you're yet to acknowledge any of the flaws in your own argument, or acknowledge any of the points made in counter-argument.
(03 Apr 2021, 1:52 pm)Dan If the destination display reads "Scarborough via Whitby" on the southbound journey, not referencing Middlesbrough at all, it carries a unique number (i.e. not X9 or X10), all marketing and promotion shows the X11 as being a separate entity (but is promoted as a 'day out' to Whitby and Scarborough along the route), and the service uses different stands in bus stations... How isn't it that clear?
Whilst you're very quick to point out alleged flaws, you're yet to acknowledge any of the flaws in your own argument, or acknowledge any of the points made in counter-argument.
