(02 Sep 2021, 1:57 pm)Drifter60 wrote Maybe I’m misreading the timetables but I don’t see why the 6 and 12 need to interwork? Surely they could be both standalone? It does seem a missed opportunity to not brand services which are pretty high frequency, the 12s are every 15 minutes and Blaydon Racers was a good brand. The unbranded routes certainly used to feel like neglected ones.

The 6 and 12 interwork so that drivers can be relieved at Metrocentre, where there are meal relief facilities. The 6 was also unreliable when it ran standalone (although the service is obviously being changed in September so that may no longer be the case).

It is incredibly costly to have vans running back and forth between Blaydon and Metrocentre for drivers' meal breaks (for every relief you add 20 mins on - 10 for the driver coming off, and 10 for the driver going on). Whilst they could be standalone, and individually branded, it adds a lot of costs into the business. If that results in the service no longer turning as great a profit, it could lead to service reductions. I think it's best to keep these routes interworking if it prevents cuts being made.

(02 Sep 2021, 1:57 pm)Drifter60 wrote Maybe I’m misreading the timetables but I don’t see why the 6 and 12 need to interwork? Surely they could be both standalone? It does seem a missed opportunity to not brand services which are pretty high frequency, the 12s are every 15 minutes and Blaydon Racers was a good brand. The unbranded routes certainly used to feel like neglected ones.

Yeah I mean, if you imo look at the 50/49 quite frequent services which are busy it makes them look like a lost cause which I know they are not.

(02 Sep 2021, 5:03 pm)Dan wrote The 6 and 12 interwork so that drivers can be relieved at Metrocentre, where there are meal relief facilities. The 6 was also unreliable when it ran standalone (although the service is obviously being changed in September so that may no longer be the case).

It is incredibly costly to have vans running back and forth between Blaydon and Metrocentre for drivers' meal breaks (for every relief you add 20 mins on - 10 for the driver coming off, and 10 for the driver going on). Whilst they could be standalone, and individually branded, it adds a lot of costs into the business. If that results in the service no longer turning as great a profit, it could lead to service reductions. I think it's best to keep these routes interworking if it prevents cuts being made.

I know they interwork, but you could give it a casual brand like CityLink, CityConnect.

(02 Sep 2021, 5:03 pm)Dan wrote The 6 and 12 interwork so that drivers can be relieved at Metrocentre, where there are meal relief facilities. The 6 was also unreliable when it ran standalone (although the service is obviously being changed in September so that may no longer be the case).

It is incredibly costly to have vans running back and forth between Blaydon and Metrocentre for drivers' meal breaks (for every relief you add 20 mins on - 10 for the driver coming off, and 10 for the driver going on). Whilst they could be standalone, and individually branded, it adds a lot of costs into the business. If that results in the service no longer turning as great a profit, it could lead to service reductions. I think it's best to keep these routes interworking if it prevents cuts being made.

Could the 12/12A not be revised to interwork with the 49/49A as an alternative? That way these two services could be given a Blaydon/Winlaton themed brand.

(02 Sep 2021, 5:59 pm)peter wrote Could the 12/12A not be revised to interwork with the 49/49A as an alternative? That way these two services could be given a Blaydon/Winlaton themed brand.

Winlaton Ranger

(02 Sep 2021, 5:59 pm)peter wrote Could the 12/12A not be revised to interwork with the 49/49A as an alternative? That way these two services could be given a Blaydon/Winlaton themed brand.

Unless there's a change commencing on Sunday, and I know the 12/12A and 49/49A are no-longer being advertised as operating as a clockwise/anti-clockwise loop around Blaydon/Winlaton, but I believe through fares are still available if travelling from, say Hanover Estate down to Blaydon using both the 12 and 12A. 

Other than the 'Blaydon Racers', which has now died twice, or 'Toon Link', another brand confined to the vast grave of brands at the cemetery located somewhere in the vicinity of GNE towers, what other brand name is appropriate? Considering neither brand has stuck, do these services require yet another rebranding? Or are we all in the mindset of branding buses just for the sake of it.......again?

(02 Sep 2021, 6:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Unless there's a change commencing on Sunday, and I know the 12/12A and 49/49A are no-longer being advertised as operating as a clockwise/anti-clockwise loop around Blaydon/Winlaton, but I believe through fares are still available if travelling from, say Hanover Estate down to Blaydon using both the 12 and 12A. 

Other than the 'Blaydon Racers', which has now died twice, or 'Toon Link', another brand confined to the vast grave of brands at the cemetery located somewhere in the vicinity of GNE towers, what other brand name is appropriate? Considering neither brand has stuck, do these services require yet another rebranding? Or are we all in the mindset of branding buses just for the sake of it.......again?

I think it was due to the age of buses, and not being Euro 6 maybe that is why they lost branding.

(02 Sep 2021, 5:59 pm)peter wrote Could the 12/12A not be revised to interwork with the 49/49A as an alternative? That way these two services could be given a Blaydon/Winlaton themed brand.

I'm not sure what's happening with the 66 plate Streetlites but if you did that then you'd force the 49/49A to be a Euro 6 route aswell even known it doesn't serve the LEZ which could be costly. Whereas now anything can run the 49/49A so newer buses can be released for the 6/12

(02 Sep 2021, 6:20 pm)Storx wrote I'm not sure what's happening with the 66 plate Streetlites but if you did that then you'd force the 49/49A to be a Euro 6 route aswell even known it doesn't serve the LEZ which could be costly. Whereas now anything can run the 49/49A so newer buses can be released for the 6/12

You have the spare 17' Plate ones from Deptford. & 15

(02 Sep 2021, 6:22 pm)Keeiajs wrote You have the spare 17' Plate ones from Deptford. & 15

The 15 plates aren't Euro 6 though and there's not enough ex Durham Diamond Streetlites for the 51/52 either. There might be enough but I don't believe there is without going into the 49 Streetlites with the 6 and 12 added to the mix.

(02 Sep 2021, 6:27 pm)Storx wrote The 15 plates aren't Euro 6 though and there's not enough ex Durham Diamond Streetlites for the 51/52 either. There might be enough but I don't believe there is without going into the 49 Streetlites with the 6 and 12 added to the mix.

What is the PVR for 12/12A/6/51/52/49/A/C

(02 Sep 2021, 6:27 pm)Storx wrote The 15 plates aren't Euro 6 though and there's not enough ex Durham Diamond Streetlites for the 51/52 either. There might be enough but I don't believe there is without going into the 49 Streetlites with the 6 and 12 added to the mix.

(02 Sep 2021, 7:02 pm)Keeiajs wrote What is the PVR for 12/12A/6/51/52/49/A/C

I have PVR of 51/52 as 11, 6/12/12A as 10 and 49/49A as 7

My prediction 
5442-5450 from Durham Diamond to Orbit joined by 5451/52
This leaves 10 Euro 6 buses 5453-5462 for the 6/12/12A

Then 5412-5419 could go to Riverside for the 49/49A with 5276-5283 going the other way keeping the Citaro's at Deptford and meaning the 49/49A are not 'downgraded'. That would leave 5463-5469 as 7 buses for the PVR of 7 on the 57.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm)peter wrote I have PVR of 51/52 as 11, 6/12/12A as 10 and 49/49A as 7

My prediction 
5442-5450 from Durham Diamond to Orbit joined by 5451/52
This leaves 10 Euro 6 buses 5453-5462 for the 6/12/12A

Then 5412-5419 could go to Riverside for the 49/49A with 5276-5283 going the other way keeping the Citaro's at Deptford and meaning the 49/49A are not 'downgraded'. That would leave 5463-5469 as 7 buses for the PVR of 7 on the 57.

57 are getting E10's I think.

Also from 5442 - 5469 should be enough to cover all these services with some spares.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm)peter wrote I have PVR of 51/52 as 11, 6/12/12A as 10 and 49/49A as 7

My prediction 
5442-5450 from Durham Diamond to Orbit joined by 5451/52
This leaves 10 Euro 6 buses 5453-5462 for the 6/12/12A

Then 5412-5419 could go to Riverside for the 49/49A with 5276-5283 going the other way keeping the Citaro's at Deptford and meaning the 49/49A are not 'downgraded'. That would leave 5463-5469 as 7 buses for the PVR of 7 on the 57.

Yeah had a feeling it would be tight like that. There does seem to be a few Streetlites unallocated atm as the ex Red Kite ones don't seem to have a route with everything in Sunderland being Merc / Versa or Solo so could be very likely.

Be interesting to see what the plans are for the rest of the ex Quaylink and M's Versa's aswell as there appears to be a fair few with no-where to go aswell. CLS for the 34 could be a good shout though to push the rest of ex Saltwell Park's to Deptford which could push out a few newer Streetlites aswell maybe.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:53 pm)Storx wrote Yeah had a feeling it would be tight like that. There does seem to be a few Streetlites unallocated atm as the ex Red Kite ones don't seem to have a route with everything in Sunderland being Merc / Versa or Solo so could be very likely.

Be interesting to see what the plans are for the rest of the ex Quaylink and M's Versa's aswell as there appears to be a fair few with no-where to go aswell. CLS for the 34 could be a good shout though to push the rest of ex Saltwell Park's to Deptford which could push out a few newer Streetlites aswell maybe.

Yeah I've been having a think about the Versa's as well 8294-8306 is quite a few Euro 4 Versa's with seemingly not a lot to do!
-8330-8338 are going on 2/2A with 8329 spare presumably 
-Assuming the 25 gets deckers then 4 Euro 6 Versa's are needed for the 28/28A, presumably 8319-8322 with 8323 spare
-8324-8325 are both Euro 6 so could join 8307-8309 and 8326-8328 as Euro 6 spare vehicles at Riverside given how tight things are with the Streetlite numbers
-8310-8318 could remain at Riverside providing the 4 buses for the 67/69, 1 for the 29 and 1 for the 643 and a few spare
-That leaves 8294-8306 which honestly I can't think what they'd be needed for other than miscellaneous/scholars or upgrading a few non-CAZ Solo operated routes. There's the 34 as well but you could use some of 8310-8318 tbh. I reckon the 8344-8346 will go to Deptford for the 9/5 which given is a PVR increase won't directly displace anything (other than 3 B9's off the 26/27 circuit as the 26 moves over to join the 50 which retains a PVR of 11 displacing the 5 onto the 9 with the resulting increase)

Create a New leg of the 56. X56, Sunderland - Washington - Heworth - Gateshead - MetroCentre. Every 30 Mins. (NX56 aswell) 

Also when the IMAX Cinema has 00:00 premieres such as for Spider Man Far From Home, have a X66 Double Decker from MetroCentre interchange, not the main bulding but the stand out side the blue mall before the escalator. To link with a 56/21 to Durham and Sunderland

The new 62 takes a bit of an odd route round Seaham Town Centre towards Peterlee serving Byron Place/Interchange twice at Stand E and Stand C. It makes sense for the Sunderland bound bus to use Stand D (that way all buses to Sunderland 60, 62, X6 depart at the same place) but no reason for the Peterlee bound service to use the Parkside bound Stand E as well as Stand C. The X6 uses Stand E but that’s just to keep it quick along the coast and heading in the correct direction, not an issue with the 62 as it goes up North Railway Street to get to Dawdon in any case.

I’d have done this:
62 to Sunderland via Vane Terrace, Sophia Street, Viceroy Street, link road near Linthorpe Avenue, A182, Stand D, North Terrace. (Which is what I think it does)

62 to Peterlee via Tempest Road, Vane Terrace, Sophia Street, Viceroy Street, Stand C, North Railway Street, Castlereagh Road.

I’ve just looked at the 62 map, I thought it went the same route as the X6 between Dalton Park and Sunderland, blimey the 62 goes all over the place in Seaham, there might as well send the 62 via Parkside


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(07 Sep 2021, 10:46 am)cbma06 wrote I’ve just looked at the 62 map, I thought it went the same route as the X6 between Dalton Park and Sunderland, blimey the 62 goes all over the place in Seaham, there might as well  send the 62 via Parkside


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They should, new connections from Parkside to Washington/Newcastle/Dalton Park/Middlesbrough/Hetton 

Also I have seen the 62 6 times in the last 2 days on the Sunderland leg it has been packed.

(07 Sep 2021, 9:57 pm)Keeiajs wrote They should, new connections from Parkside to Washington/Newcastle/Dalton Park/Middlesbrough/Hetton 

Also I have seen the 62 6 times in the last 2 days on the Sunderland leg it has been packed.

Parkside only really works as a terminus point, there’s one road in, one road out. Parkside has 5 buses an hour, it really doesn’t need anything else. Connections to Dalton Park, Durham, Peterlee, Hetton, Houghton can all be made at the Town centre.

This is more an allocation suggestion but I would try and put full length single deckers on either the 82 or 84. You could then send the released solos to percy main to have additional spares for the 19, 41/41A & 42/42A.

(07 Sep 2021, 9:57 pm)Keeiajs wrote They should, new connections from Parkside to Washington/Newcastle/Dalton Park/Middlesbrough/Hetton 

Also I have seen the 62 6 times in the last 2 days on the Sunderland leg it has been packed.

Was on that yesterday and just put in another post that using small solos is not a good idea. I only used it between Peterlee and Dalton Park and it was full. Going just about everywhere possible between Peterlee and Dalton Park probably didn’t help there. They need to put bigger buses on there for definite.

If they extended the X1 to Hartlepool (apart from Dalton Park) you just about have the old X5 route back. My suggestion would be the X2 running alongside the X1 with it the same between Newcastle and Washington but then limited stop to Dalton park via Houghton Le spring and Easington Lane. Then from Dalton park to Hartlepool via A19 Hart Village, Bishop Cuthbert estate and Throston Grange. x2 would operate every 30 minutes to Dalton Park and every 60 to Hartlepool. This would replace two of the Current X1 services

(09 Sep 2021, 9:55 pm)col87 wrote If they extended the X1 to Hartlepool (apart from Dalton Park) you just about have the old X5 route back. My suggestion would be the X2 running alongside the X1 with it the same between Newcastle and Washington but then limited stop to Dalton park via Houghton Le spring and Easington Lane. Then from Dalton park to Hartlepool via A19 Hart Village, Bishop Cuthbert estate and Throston Grange.  x2 would operate every 30 minutes to Dalton Park and every 60 to Hartlepool. This would replace two of the Current X1 services

GNE seems tried many times to Hartlepool after the X5,
while both the Fast Cat X35 and the WearExpress X6 could not last...

(07 Sep 2021, 9:49 am)Drifter60 wrote The new 62 takes a bit of an odd route round Seaham Town Centre towards Peterlee serving Byron Place/Interchange twice at Stand E and Stand C. It makes sense for the Sunderland bound bus to use Stand D (that way all buses to Sunderland 60, 62, X6 depart at the same place) but no reason for the Peterlee bound service to use the Parkside bound Stand E as well as Stand C. The X6 uses Stand E but that’s just to keep it quick along the coast and heading in the correct direction, not an issue with the 62 as it goes up North Railway Street to get to Dawdon in any case.

I’d have done this:
62 to Sunderland via Vane Terrace, Sophia Street, Viceroy Street, link road near Linthorpe Avenue, A182, Stand D, North Terrace. (Which is what I think it does)

62 to Peterlee via Tempest Road, Vane Terrace, Sophia Street, Viceroy Street, Stand C, North Railway Street, Castlereagh Road.

I'd say keep the 62 on the Parkside/Peterlee Stand and instead of doubling back, when it comes round the back of Asda, take the right turn and go straight up past the PCC Towards Tempest Road

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(09 Sep 2021, 9:55 pm)col87 wrote If they extended the X1 to Hartlepool (apart from Dalton Park) you just about have the old X5 route back. My suggestion would be the X2 running alongside the X1 with it the same between Newcastle and Washington but then limited stop to Dalton park via Houghton Le spring and Easington Lane. Then from Dalton park to Hartlepool via A19 Hart Village, Bishop Cuthbert estate and Throston Grange.  x2 would operate every 30 minutes to Dalton Park and every 60 to Hartlepool. This would replace two of the Current X1 services

The problem is the original X5 while not always did do well enough. When it got changed to the X35 the route simply took to long and was going against the train which takes about 20 minutes and the much quicker 23.  The X6 was hardly giving a chance and again having it in overcrowded Hartlepool - Sunderland service was just stupid. If go north east tried a limited stop express to Newcastle it could work unfortunately the only idea they had in the last decade was trying to make a Hartlepool- Sunderland service work. They did try the X11 but it was a few journeys on a Saturday without any publicity so nobody really knew it existed so of course failed.  I still think an express service done properly to Newcastle from Hartlepool and not the half hearted efforts that where the X11 and X55 it could work.   That idea is simple as it just a slight variation and extension on the existing X1 and I could see it been used.

(10 Sep 2021, 9:06 am)MrFozz wrote I'd say keep the 62 on the Parkside/Peterlee Stand and instead of doubling back, when it comes round the back of Asda, take the right turn and go straight up past the PCC Towards Tempest Road

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Google Maps seems to suggest it does do the route I suggested but it’s not in practice. I think sending buses the other way past the primary care centre would be difficult due to parked cars on that side and there’s no bus stops on that side of the road either. It makes sense for it to go up Tempest Road and along Sophia Street, the 71 does a similar route. Either change to the loop Google maps suggested or just don’t stop at Stand E - I think it’s a bit confusing having it stop in two places at the interchange bit and potentially adds time if there’s passengers boarding and alighting at both stands.

(10 Sep 2021, 10:01 am)col87 wrote The problem is the original X5 while not always did do well enough. When it got changed to the X35 the route simply took to long and was going against the train which takes about 20 minutes and the much quicker 23.  The X6 was hardly giving a chance and again having it in overcrowded Hartlepool - Sunderland service was just stupid. If go north east tried a limited stop express to Newcastle it could work unfortunately the only idea they had in the last decade was trying to make a Hartlepool- Sunderland service work. They did try the X11 but it was a few journeys on a Saturday without any publicity so nobody really knew it existed so of course failed.  I still think an express service done properly to Newcastle from Hartlepool and not the half hearted efforts that where the X11 and X55 it could work.   That idea is simple as it just a slight variation and extension on the existing X1 and I could see it been used.

This suggestion comes up time and again but the fact is the geography of Hartlepool doesn't lend itself to a service ever working. The town sits out just too far to the east of the A19 to make diverting the X9/X10 worthwhile and although there is some demand, there will never be enough to sustain a stand alone express service. Once a service starts diverting up the Coast Road to Peterlee and Dalton Park the journey times are unattractive. 

Such a journey would command a £8.50 X9/10 style ticket which is not going to stand up to a £9.50 return on the improved train service, which also has a catchment from Seaton Carew, encompassing part of South West Hartlepool. 

It is a shame GNE abandoned their service too the town, which at it's core was a very long standing service. My thoughts are that if GNE went just a bit bolder in the Peterlee area and set up a fast Peterlee - Durham service they could really sway an awful lot of Arriva season ticket holders onto their network, justifying the interurban routes to Sunderland and Hartlepool. 

Separately, the 62 & X6 run within a few minutes of each other between Dalton Park & Sunderland - would swapping the times of the 62 & 62A provide a more even service along this corridor?

(23 Aug 2021, 8:14 pm)V514DFT wrote 61-59
201-61
203-63
204/204A-64/64A
206-66
209-67
210-68
239- discuss about renumbering it 69
67-76
69/69B-77/77A

204 running through Gilesgate etc would be rather confusing with the exact same number as the arriva 64.

(12 Sep 2021, 8:43 pm)James101 wrote This suggestion comes up time and again but the fact is the geography of Hartlepool doesn't lend itself to a service ever working. The town sits out just too far to the east of the A19 to make diverting the X9/X10 worthwhile and although there is some demand, there will never be enough to sustain a stand alone express service. Once a service starts diverting up the Coast Road to Peterlee and Dalton Park the journey times are unattractive. 

Such a journey would command a £8.50 X9/10 style ticket which is not going to stand up to a £9.50 return on the improved train service, which also has a catchment from Seaton Carew, encompassing part of South West Hartlepool. 

It is a shame GNE abandoned their service too the town, which at it's core was a very long standing service. My thoughts are that if GNE went just a bit bolder in the Peterlee area and set up a fast Peterlee - Durham service they could really sway an awful lot of Arriva season ticket holders onto their network, justifying the interurban routes to Sunderland and Hartlepool. 

Separately, the 62 & X6 run within a few minutes of each other between Dalton Park & Sunderland - would swapping the times of the 62 & 62A provide a more even service along this corridor?

And this is one of the points raised time and time again. It sort feels like a vicious circle of introducing a new route proving an extra bus link each hour but the fact they’re both within minutes of each other in both directions isn’t going to promote growth or will passengers feel the benefit of two buses when they’re not spaced out. Oh and of course one route will likely steal the others passengers. One then gets withdrawn or curtailed and passengers are left with reduced capacity. 

I’m still left thinking the 62 between Seaham and Sunderland is just duplication when a more regular 30 minute service from Dalton Park-Seaham-Sunderland could have been offered. The X6 could have went half hourly along that corridor potentially even via the 62 route & serving all bus stops (according to timetables, the 62 only takes 2/3 minutes longer). Current 62 could have be curtailed at Seaham. Timings could work for that too, if you interworked 62/62A with the X6 at Peterlee. 

The X6 could have been renumbered as the 62 whilst the new 62 and 62A routes could have kept the 202/208 numbers.