Newcastle Clean Air Zone: services which need to be upgraded
Newcastle Clean Air Zone: services which need to be upgraded
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...t-21537127
Looking at this article your going to have to be very unlucky to gat a "fine " for driving in the clean air zone with all the exceptions to the rule!
(11 Sep 2021, 7:24 am)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...t-21537127Yup, watered down to the max.
Looking at this article your going to have to be very unlucky to gat a "fine " for driving in the clean air zone with all the exceptions to the rule!
(11 Sep 2021, 7:24 am)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...t-21537127Yup, watered down to the max.
Looking at this article your going to have to be very unlucky to gat a "fine " for driving in the clean air zone with all the exceptions to the rule!
(03 Sep 2021, 8:26 am)streetdeckfan Well, if that's the case then I'd happily take one of the B5Hs over a Streetlite! They're so much nicer.I'd happily take a Volvo Olympian Palatine II over most of the modern stuff haha!
I hope they don't remove the hybrid system on any more of them as it's my favourite part of using them! I find it quite fun trying to guess when the diesel engine is going to kick in.This is why there needs to be less focus on the age of vehicles! If a 10 year old vehicle is more comfortable, reliable and of an equivalent or higher specification than a 4 year old vehicle, that would definitely be considered an upgrade!
Don't forget, even the likes of the New Routemaster are getting on for 10 years old now! I'm sure you wouldn't complain if you got a refurbished one of those!
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(03 Sep 2021, 8:26 am)streetdeckfan Well, if that's the case then I'd happily take one of the B5Hs over a Streetlite! They're so much nicer.I'd happily take a Volvo Olympian Palatine II over most of the modern stuff haha!
I hope they don't remove the hybrid system on any more of them as it's my favourite part of using them! I find it quite fun trying to guess when the diesel engine is going to kick in.This is why there needs to be less focus on the age of vehicles! If a 10 year old vehicle is more comfortable, reliable and of an equivalent or higher specification than a 4 year old vehicle, that would definitely be considered an upgrade!
Don't forget, even the likes of the New Routemaster are getting on for 10 years old now! I'm sure you wouldn't complain if you got a refurbished one of those!
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(02 Sep 2021, 10:45 pm)Adrian Consett to Newcastle has to main a strategic corridor for Newcastle, especially when they have an MP who believes in fantasy and the possibility of the Metro coming to Consett. The more GNE can do to prove that is not required and in fact they have a top class bus network, it can only benefit their business. I personally believe that a Consett to Newcastle direct rail link is complete pie in the sky, but if the end result would decimate the business in the area, I would not be taking any chances.And this is the same argument I've been trying to get across for Arriva's Blyth & Ashington operations given what's happening up that way!
(02 Sep 2021, 10:45 pm)Adrian Consett to Newcastle has to main a strategic corridor for Newcastle, especially when they have an MP who believes in fantasy and the possibility of the Metro coming to Consett. The more GNE can do to prove that is not required and in fact they have a top class bus network, it can only benefit their business. I personally believe that a Consett to Newcastle direct rail link is complete pie in the sky, but if the end result would decimate the business in the area, I would not be taking any chances.And this is the same argument I've been trying to get across for Arriva's Blyth & Ashington operations given what's happening up that way!
(11 Sep 2021, 8:24 am)Adrian Yup, watered down to the max.
The idea behind the scheme is good, but ultimately it has ended up whereby only buses, coaches and HGVs are held to the highest of standards. In a vein attempt to retain votes, Councillors opposed any inclusion of the private car, which I believe was in the initial proposal.
So you're basically fine to have a street congested with 15 year old diesel cars, but if a bus operator dares to send a Euro 5 bus in, they're slapped with a fine.
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(11 Sep 2021, 8:24 am)Adrian Yup, watered down to the max.
The idea behind the scheme is good, but ultimately it has ended up whereby only buses, coaches and HGVs are held to the highest of standards. In a vein attempt to retain votes, Councillors opposed any inclusion of the private car, which I believe was in the initial proposal.
So you're basically fine to have a street congested with 15 year old diesel cars, but if a bus operator dares to send a Euro 5 bus in, they're slapped with a fine.
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(11 Sep 2021, 11:11 am)Storx In fairness, the North East is the poorest region in the North East. Having a tax which mostly affects poor people who can't afford anything more expensive is extremely unfair. It's alright in somewhere like London as it has an expansive public transport whereas up here it's not
Most the highest emissions in Newcastle were in spots where cars can't even drive down anyway or there's very few of them like Percy Street so they're not the cause of the high emissions mostly in Newcastle.
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/defau...R_2020.pdf - Data here. For example the highest in Newcastle (excluding one on the Coast Road (DT81)) is DT65 which is Blackett Street / Old Eldon Sq and there's only one thing which can be blamed there and it's why they're getting the charge.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:11 am)Storx In fairness, the North East is the poorest region in the North East. Having a tax which mostly affects poor people who can't afford anything more expensive is extremely unfair. It's alright in somewhere like London as it has an expansive public transport whereas up here it's not
Most the highest emissions in Newcastle were in spots where cars can't even drive down anyway or there's very few of them like Percy Street so they're not the cause of the high emissions mostly in Newcastle.
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/defau...R_2020.pdf - Data here. For example the highest in Newcastle (excluding one on the Coast Road (DT81)) is DT65 which is Blackett Street / Old Eldon Sq and there's only one thing which can be blamed there and it's why they're getting the charge.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:16 am)Andreos1 I've made a similar point in the past.
For all the positives there may closing Blackett Street, its simply going to increase emissions elsewhere in the town.
Having buses shadow and follow each other to/from the same places or down route corridors can be managed by the operators. Probably a lot easier and efficient doing that, than reallocating and repainting buses to suit.
They may also realise that not everyone needs to be in the town, don't work in the town or lives in the town.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:16 am)Andreos1 I've made a similar point in the past.
For all the positives there may closing Blackett Street, its simply going to increase emissions elsewhere in the town.
Having buses shadow and follow each other to/from the same places or down route corridors can be managed by the operators. Probably a lot easier and efficient doing that, than reallocating and repainting buses to suit.
They may also realise that not everyone needs to be in the town, don't work in the town or lives in the town.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:31 am)Storx Aye your right, the Market Street ones are close second. Mind it would help if we didn't have buses crossing the Tyne Bridge / Redheugh Bridge travelling to a bus stations at the North of the city surprisingly through the centre.
I know it's a big cost for the council by having a bus station at the South end of the city but having one around Pilgrim Street could make massive changes, you could even redirect some of the Stagecoach buses to serve the bus station and get straight out the city. There's no reason why the 1, 30, 31, 36, 62, 63 etc need to go anywhere near the centre where pedestrians are and could avoid it via the Central Motorway / Central Station.
Similar the emission savings that could be made having all the GNE Tyne Bridge services serving it would be massive. You'd pretty much have Market Street free of buses bar the Westgate Road services (and even those could go via John Dobson Street / Percy Street or the Central Station).
(11 Sep 2021, 11:31 am)Storx Aye your right, the Market Street ones are close second. Mind it would help if we didn't have buses crossing the Tyne Bridge / Redheugh Bridge travelling to a bus stations at the North of the city surprisingly through the centre.
I know it's a big cost for the council by having a bus station at the South end of the city but having one around Pilgrim Street could make massive changes, you could even redirect some of the Stagecoach buses to serve the bus station and get straight out the city. There's no reason why the 1, 30, 31, 36, 62, 63 etc need to go anywhere near the centre where pedestrians are and could avoid it via the Central Motorway / Central Station.
Similar the emission savings that could be made having all the GNE Tyne Bridge services serving it would be massive. You'd pretty much have Market Street free of buses bar the Westgate Road services (and even those could go via John Dobson Street / Percy Street or the Central Station).
"There's no reason why the 1, 30, 31, 36, 62, 63 etc need to go anywhere near the centre where pedestrians are and could avoid it via the Central Motorway / Central Station."
Because very few passengers are travelling the full route? People are catching them from their respective sides of the city to get in and out of the city centre. Saying these services don't need to stop in the city centre is like suggesting the X21 doesn't bother with Durham and Chester Le street.
(11 Sep 2021, 4:31 pm)BusLoverMum "There's no reason why the 1, 30, 31, 36, 62, 63 etc need to go anywhere near the centre where pedestrians are and could avoid it via the Central Motorway / Central Station."
Because very few passengers are travelling the full route? People are catching them from their respective sides of the city to get in and out of the city centre. Saying these services don't need to stop in the city centre is like suggesting the X21 doesn't bother with Durham and Chester Le street.
(11 Sep 2021, 4:31 pm)BusLoverMum "There's no reason why the 1, 30, 31, 36, 62, 63 etc need to go anywhere near the centre where pedestrians are and could avoid it via the Central Motorway / Central Station."
Because very few passengers are travelling the full route? People are catching them from their respective sides of the city to get in and out of the city centre. Saying these services don't need to stop in the city centre is like suggesting the X21 doesn't bother with Durham and Chester Le street.
(11 Sep 2021, 7:13 pm)Storx I think you misread that. I meant them stopping at a bus station near Pilgrim Street basically around Worswick Street or Stack to serve the city centre then going around it rather than through the centre.
Meant the centre as the following:
Market Street
Blackett Street
Clayton Street
Grainger Street
Newgate Street
There's way too many buses on all of them and it's where the public are rather than down Mosley Street or Percy Street where there's fewer people around so the pollution isn't as harmful.
Apart from Woodhouse (think it's the name) there's no buses anywhere near the centre in Leeds where people are and it's the same in most cities.
(11 Sep 2021, 7:13 pm)Storx I think you misread that. I meant them stopping at a bus station near Pilgrim Street basically around Worswick Street or Stack to serve the city centre then going around it rather than through the centre.
Meant the centre as the following:
Market Street
Blackett Street
Clayton Street
Grainger Street
Newgate Street
There's way too many buses on all of them and it's where the public are rather than down Mosley Street or Percy Street where there's fewer people around so the pollution isn't as harmful.
Apart from Woodhouse (think it's the name) there's no buses anywhere near the centre in Leeds where people are and it's the same in most cities.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:11 am)Storx In fairness, the North East is the poorest region in the North East. Having a tax which mostly affects poor people who can't afford anything more expensive is extremely unfair. It's alright in somewhere like London as it has an expansive public transport whereas up here it's not
Most the highest emissions in Newcastle were in spots where cars can't even drive down anyway or there's very few of them like Percy Street so they're not the cause of the high emissions mostly in Newcastle.
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/defau...R_2020.pdf - Data here. For example the highest in Newcastle (excluding one on the Coast Road (DT81)) is DT65 which is Blackett Street / Old Eldon Sq and there's only one thing which can be blamed there and it's why they're getting the charge.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:11 am)Storx In fairness, the North East is the poorest region in the North East. Having a tax which mostly affects poor people who can't afford anything more expensive is extremely unfair. It's alright in somewhere like London as it has an expansive public transport whereas up here it's not
Most the highest emissions in Newcastle were in spots where cars can't even drive down anyway or there's very few of them like Percy Street so they're not the cause of the high emissions mostly in Newcastle.
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/defau...R_2020.pdf - Data here. For example the highest in Newcastle (excluding one on the Coast Road (DT81)) is DT65 which is Blackett Street / Old Eldon Sq and there's only one thing which can be blamed there and it's why they're getting the charge.
(11 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm)Adrian I have sympathy for low earners that would be penalised by the AQMA scheme including private cars, but likewise this could penalise public transport users, when fares inevitably go up post-pandemic and we're reminded that it's due to X investment in vehicles, in order to meet the AQMA rules.
Cars alone aren't the cause of congestion, but they do play a big part in it. Our roads and City Centres just aren't designed for the volumes of traffic they're now taking, and there needs to be a point where you try and flatten the trend.
Your observation about Blackett Street is a good one, and certainly there's been plenty of times I've seen congestion caused by a bus parked up with its back end hanging out, but just because there's very few cars on Percy Street and none at all on Blackett Street, doesn't mean that buses aren't getting stuck in traffic congestion elsewhere, causing them to run late and inevitably start grouping at stops. Of course, overprovision is also a big factor in this and I agree what Andreos1 has said. I'd like to see operators design networks that don't involve *everything* passing through or terminating in the City Centre. Its excessive, unnecessary and quite frankly part of the problem. It's also something that is intended to be tackled by BSIPs, so hopefully an opportunity to sort that out.
Buses and the Metro aren't perfect, there's barriers to people using them and there's a lot more work to do to encourage people to switch. Drivers need to see it as a realistic (and inexpensive) option to park just outside of the City Centre, then complete their journey by bus or Metro. It works well in Durham, because the P&R cost compared to parking makes it a no-brainer.
Pollution and air quality remains a very real problem that needs tackling, and IMO not one that you can do selectively. Otherwise we end up in a position where we keep shrugging our shoulders and hoping that it'll deal with itself further down the line.
(11 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm)Adrian I have sympathy for low earners that would be penalised by the AQMA scheme including private cars, but likewise this could penalise public transport users, when fares inevitably go up post-pandemic and we're reminded that it's due to X investment in vehicles, in order to meet the AQMA rules.
Cars alone aren't the cause of congestion, but they do play a big part in it. Our roads and City Centres just aren't designed for the volumes of traffic they're now taking, and there needs to be a point where you try and flatten the trend.
Your observation about Blackett Street is a good one, and certainly there's been plenty of times I've seen congestion caused by a bus parked up with its back end hanging out, but just because there's very few cars on Percy Street and none at all on Blackett Street, doesn't mean that buses aren't getting stuck in traffic congestion elsewhere, causing them to run late and inevitably start grouping at stops. Of course, overprovision is also a big factor in this and I agree what Andreos1 has said. I'd like to see operators design networks that don't involve *everything* passing through or terminating in the City Centre. Its excessive, unnecessary and quite frankly part of the problem. It's also something that is intended to be tackled by BSIPs, so hopefully an opportunity to sort that out.
Buses and the Metro aren't perfect, there's barriers to people using them and there's a lot more work to do to encourage people to switch. Drivers need to see it as a realistic (and inexpensive) option to park just outside of the City Centre, then complete their journey by bus or Metro. It works well in Durham, because the P&R cost compared to parking makes it a no-brainer.
Pollution and air quality remains a very real problem that needs tackling, and IMO not one that you can do selectively. Otherwise we end up in a position where we keep shrugging our shoulders and hoping that it'll deal with itself further down the line.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:31 am)Storx Aye your right, the Market Street ones are close second. Mind it would help if we didn't have buses crossing the Tyne Bridge / Redheugh Bridge travelling to a bus stations at the North of the city surprisingly through the centre.Before 1986 this was not such a problem as the cross Tyne routes didn't, as they terminated at Gateshead Interchange and everyone was forced to use the Metro to get into Newcastle City Centre.
(11 Sep 2021, 11:31 am)Storx Aye your right, the Market Street ones are close second. Mind it would help if we didn't have buses crossing the Tyne Bridge / Redheugh Bridge travelling to a bus stations at the North of the city surprisingly through the centre.Before 1986 this was not such a problem as the cross Tyne routes didn't, as they terminated at Gateshead Interchange and everyone was forced to use the Metro to get into Newcastle City Centre.
(12 Sep 2021, 8:02 am)IRHardy Before 1986 this was not such a problem as the cross Tyne routes didn't, as they terminated at Gateshead Interchange and everyone was forced to use the Metro to get into Newcastle City Centre.
(12 Sep 2021, 8:02 am)IRHardy Before 1986 this was not such a problem as the cross Tyne routes didn't, as they terminated at Gateshead Interchange and everyone was forced to use the Metro to get into Newcastle City Centre.
Buses set to get top priority on three of Newcastle's busiest roads under plan to cut pollution
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
3 major roads set to change for buses
(27 Sep 2021, 9:34 am)Train8261 Buses set to get top priority on three of Newcastle's busiest roads under plan to cut pollution
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
3 major roads set to change for buses
(27 Sep 2021, 9:34 am)Train8261 Buses set to get top priority on three of Newcastle's busiest roads under plan to cut pollution
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
3 major roads set to change for buses
(27 Sep 2021, 9:34 am)Train8261 Buses set to get top priority on three of Newcastle's busiest roads under plan to cut pollution
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
3 major roads set to change for buses
(27 Sep 2021, 9:34 am)Train8261 Buses set to get top priority on three of Newcastle's busiest roads under plan to cut pollution
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
3 major roads set to change for buses
(27 Sep 2021, 9:33 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Way to increase pollution...have a virtually unchanged number of cars queuing in one lane with an empty bus lane. For the extent to which bus lanes speed up bus journeys, I would be amazed if they tempted more than a handful of people out of their cars. And to have a meaningful or even break even impact on pollution, surely they would need to tempt out enough people to warrant markedly more buses to run...for which there are neither the vehicles, nor the drivers. So said vehicles would just be fuller and even less appealing. Having buses slightly more quickly still take you to where you dont exactly want to go, at a time that still isn't really that convenient, possibly to then need to change to another bus to complete the journey, isn't going to change behaviour. "Deterring motorists" just deters them to an alternative route, or to an alternative destination if they have a choice.
(27 Sep 2021, 9:33 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Way to increase pollution...have a virtually unchanged number of cars queuing in one lane with an empty bus lane. For the extent to which bus lanes speed up bus journeys, I would be amazed if they tempted more than a handful of people out of their cars. And to have a meaningful or even break even impact on pollution, surely they would need to tempt out enough people to warrant markedly more buses to run...for which there are neither the vehicles, nor the drivers. So said vehicles would just be fuller and even less appealing. Having buses slightly more quickly still take you to where you dont exactly want to go, at a time that still isn't really that convenient, possibly to then need to change to another bus to complete the journey, isn't going to change behaviour. "Deterring motorists" just deters them to an alternative route, or to an alternative destination if they have a choice.
The majority of bus users living on those three main corridors are riding into the city centre for work or leisure, because it’s cheaper and easier than taking their car into town - or more likely because they don’t owner a car, (Newcastle has a higher percentage of non-car owners than other areas).
You’re never going to persuade all of people shown in the image linked below who are sat in their private metal boxes to switch to public transport. They are contributing to congestion and pollution and delaying public transport further.
https://twitter.com/nelivetraffic/status...75050?s=21
Car is no longer king in cities and it’s about time public transport was prioritised. If you don’t try to improve public transport & make it a more attractive option then you risk losing current patronage, when the aim is to increase it.
