(12 Oct 2021, 7:54 pm)Keeiajs wrote Yeah everyone has the right to complain, but it is ignorance not looking at the website I understand Arriva/SC when they don't tell you the services. But when they are on the website, and for a bus to be late through peak times is not common especially with the 50 going on the A19 during rush hour aswell. GNE offer somewhere to look to see your services, and the ignorance in this current climate with DVLA.

Where's the signs at the bus stops telling them to look at the website? What about those without Internet access? Most bus stop timetables advise customers to call the the operator, but they're only there 9-5 Mon-Fri, despite most bus operations being active around 20 hours of the day.

Oh and the DVLA didn't create high attrition rates at just about every operator, so I'm not sure what the current climate is there. As Andreos1 posted a few days ago, this is an industry-wide problem that has existed for far too long, and no one has bothered to deal with it.

(12 Oct 2021, 11:56 pm)L469 YVK wrote Cancelling last buses should be an absolute no no with passengers either given alternative means or common section of route covered by another service with unique parts picked up further down the line.

Agreed. I'd like to see NEBus come up with a collective guarantee to 'get you home' on this one. It's the ethical thing to do and it's something that will instil confidence in customers using those services.

(14 Oct 2021, 10:52 pm)Adrian wrote Where's the signs at the bus stops telling them to look at the website? What about those without Internet access? Most bus stop timetables advise customers to call the the operator, but they're only there 9-5 Mon-Fri, despite most bus operations being active around 20 hours of the day.

There is someone at eldon square/metro/gateshead and sometimes sunderland idk what hours they work though. But I agree they should be someone to put them up in several locations.

(14 Oct 2021, 10:56 pm)Keeiajs wrote There is someone at eldon square/metro/gateshead and sometimes sunderland idk what hours they work though. But I agree they should be someone to put them up in several locations.

Yes, and that's all good and well for bus stations (if they're there? it's been months since I've seen any staff, other than Metrocentre), but there's not going to be someone stood at the end of the street to advise the elderly couple that they've over an hour to wait for the next bus. I agree that would be impractical, but it emphasises the importance of why a staffed telephone number should be available. Recognising that not everyone has Internet access or would know how to find that information (if they're not told about it)

(14 Oct 2021, 11:04 pm)Adrian wrote Yes, and that's all good and well for bus stations (if they're there? it's been months since I've seen any staff, other than Metrocentre), but there's not going to be someone stood at the end of the street to advise the elderly couple that they've over an hour to wait for the next bus. I agree that would be impractical, but it emphasises the importance of why a staffed telephone number should be available. Recognising that not everyone has Internet access or would know how to find that information (if they're not told about it)

Really their should be a list with cancellations and what you can do to get their...

(14 Oct 2021, 11:04 pm)Adrian wrote Yes, and that's all good and well for bus stations (if they're there? it's been months since I've seen any staff, other than Metrocentre), but there's not going to be someone stood at the end of the street to advise the elderly couple that they've over an hour to wait for the next bus. I agree that would be impractical, but it emphasises the importance of why a staffed telephone number should be available. Recognising that not everyone has Internet access or would know how to find that information (if they're not told about it)

Totally agree.

IIRC, GNE customer services used to be open 7-7 during the week and 9-5 on the weekends, but now it's just 9-5 Monday-Friday, with what looks like no intention to bring back the longer opening hours.

To me, CS being open 9-5 is ridiculous, it's only open in between the peak times, when people are less likely to need to use it!

(14 Oct 2021, 11:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Totally agree.

IIRC, GNE customer services used to be open 7-7 during the week and 9-5 on the weekends, but now it's just 9-5 Monday-Friday, with what looks like no intention to bring back the longer opening hours.

To me, CS being open 9-5 is ridiculous, it's only open in between the peak times, when people are less likely to need to use it!

I thought it was 7-9, I agree it should be brought back. Or put one more in the control room, especially with so many breakdowns.

(14 Oct 2021, 11:22 pm)Keeiajs wrote I thought it was 7-9, I agree it should be brought back. Or put one more in the control room, especially with so many breakdowns.

Presumably comes down to the cost pressures the company and industry is facing with full operating costs and reduced revenue.  That said, I can't imagine these staff are on mega bucks and you'd think the marginal gains from offering customer service at this time would be much greater from that gained from repainting and rebranding services.

(15 Oct 2021, 12:12 am)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Presumably comes down to the cost pressures the company and industry is facing with full operating costs and reduced revenue.  That said, I can't imagine these staff are on mega bucks and you'd think the marginal gains from offering customer service at this time would be much greater from that gained from repainting and rebranding services.

I know a few people who worked in CS at GNE, and they absolutely hated it.
Not sure how much truth there is to it, but from what I heard it wasn't just the customers that treated them poorly, but also management. Then again, I also know someone who has been working there for years without issue

To me, as long as they're running buses, they should be offering at least a skeleton CS team. If someone is able to send out a Tweet that a service is cancelled at 7pm, then surely they should be able to answer a phone call as well.

(14 Oct 2021, 10:52 pm)Adrian wrote Where's the signs at the bus stops telling them to look at the website? What about those without Internet access? Most bus stop timetables advise customers to call the the operator, but they're only there 9-5 Mon-Fri, despite most bus operations being active around 20 hours of the day.

Oh and the DVLA didn't create high attrition rates at just about every operator, so I'm not sure what the current climate is there. As Andreos1 posted a few days ago, this is an industry-wide problem that has existed for far too long, and no one has bothered to deal with it.


Agreed. I'd like to see NEBus come up with a collective guarantee to 'get you home' on this one. It's the ethical thing to do and it's something that will instil confidence in customers using those services. 

I'd hope so too. The £1 fare is a fantastic offer and is obviously set up to encourage growth and confidence following on from the pandemic. However, that uncertainty regarding later or last buses, must surely undermine those fare offers. 

Its almost one step forward, 2 steps backwards. 

A 'get you home' guarantee may come at some expense and there will be some practical difficulties to overcome, but in the current climate, I do think it is needed to ensure that confidence continues to grow.

Both the 17:35 X5 and the 18:05 X15 ie. the last two direct busses from durham to shotley bridge cancelled on Tuesday 19th and leaving a 2 hour gap busses. So much for not cancelling last journeys.

(19 Oct 2021, 2:09 am)User2613 wrote Both the 17:35 X5 and the 18:05 X15 ie. the last two direct busses from durham to shotley bridge cancelled on Tuesday 19th and leaving a 2 hour gap busses. So much for not cancelling last journeys.

Disappointing. Hopefully they can work to reinstate the last journey at least. 
The last three full 50s of the day from Durham are also cancelled, so no service after the 16.32. 

For interest, but it seems the MD had a lot to say over the weekend about cancellations impacting him personally during his travels: https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/14...3275120646

Can't say I'm particularly impressed with GNE at the moment. One night last week one of the busses I needed to get to work was on the cancelled list (the 50). That in itself I accepted couldn't be helped. I adjusted my route accordingly and decided to get the x21 that was due 20 minutes earlier. It wasn't on the cancelled list and was running on time only for it to arrive in Chester and get taken out of service as soon as it arrived. This meant I had to get the 21 instead and miss my first, and subsequently second connection. There was also nothing posted on Twitter about the x21 being taken out of service. I appreciate the fact GNE are publishing a list of their cancelled services but what is the point if the list is incomplete. It's not just a one off either. My girlfriend had a similar issue with the 50 not turning up despite not being on the list with no update on Twitter and the bus not tracking on the app on the journey in or out of Durham.

(19 Oct 2021, 8:35 am)Adrian wrote Disappointing. Hopefully they can work to reinstate the last journey at least. 
The last three full 50s of the day from Durham are also cancelled, so no service after the 16.32.

I note that the web page was updated this morning to show that the 17:39 journey will now operate.

I'd expect that work will continue through the afternoon to attempt to cover the 18:11 also.

(19 Oct 2021, 2:47 pm)Dan wrote I note that the web page was updated this morning to show that the 17:39 journey will now operate.

I'd expect that work will continue through the afternoon to attempt to cover the 18:11 also.

Good to see the 17.39 reinstated, but we'll see what happens with regards to the 18.11. I'm surprised it was ever deemed operationally acceptable (as it was published) to drop the last three trips of the day for a service, without offering up an alternative. 

It's clearly not the same as dropping a trip out of something on a 10-15 minute frequency, so there should always be an alternative offered for last journeys of the day. If they end early enough, as the 50 does, then you could for example advise customers to use the 21/X21 and get the Durham-bound 50 for stops between Waldridge and Chester Moor, or connect on to the later running 50s South Shields-bound at Chester-le-Street. You could also say that for the additional 4 minutes the 50 takes to go via Waldridge, a 21 from Durham could have been diverted, which would have only ate into the 4 minutes it has timetabled between the Lambton Arms and Front Street.

It feels to me that the onus is being placed firmly on the customer to find a solution, with an expectation that they'll have enough knowledge to work it out for themselves. Its pointless them using the journey planners, as they advise you to use cancelled trips.

(19 Oct 2021, 3:26 pm)Adrian wrote Good to see the 17.39 reinstated, but we'll see what happens with regards to the 18.11. I'm surprised it was ever deemed operationally acceptable (as it was published) to drop the last three trips of the day for a service, without offering up an alternative. 

It's clearly not the same as dropping a trip out of something on a 10-15 minute frequency, so there should always be an alternative offered for last journeys of the day. If they end early enough, as the 50 does, then you could for example advise customers to use the 21/X21 and get the Durham-bound 50 for stops between Waldridge and Chester Moor, or connect on to the later running 50s South Shields-bound at Chester-le-Street. You could also say that for the additional 4 minutes the 50 takes to go via Waldridge, a 21 from Durham could have been diverted, which would have only ate into the 4 minutes it has timetabled between the Lambton Arms and Front Street.

It feels to me that the onus is being placed firmly on the customer to find a solution, with an expectation that they'll have enough knowledge to work it out for themselves. Its pointless them using the journey planners, as they advise you to use cancelled trips.

I'm not sure it was ever deemed operationally acceptable.

It was published, but the cancellations are published at a certain time every day, reviewed again the following morning, and work continues right until the moment the journey is cancelled, to get it covered. Consecutive journeys, and first/last buses, still remain the utmost priority to cover - but the nature of how duties are compiled and allocated, as well as restrictions around driving time and breaks, mean it's really not as easy as taking a driver off one shift and putting them onto another.

There is a huge amount of resource that goes into compiling this list, on a daily basis including weekends - whilst I agree that more could, and should, be done to offer alternatives, I don't think it'd be quite as easy as has been suggested in the past. You run the risk of putting everything else in the business on hold, potentially including the cover of these duties, to produce a list of cancelled journeys and available alternatives for customers.

Obviously diverting services is another beast completely, and comes with its own complications, which is why it's not done very often other than on the X9/X10.

(19 Oct 2021, 3:32 pm)Dan wrote I'm not sure it was ever deemed operationally acceptable.

It was published, but the cancellations are published at a certain time every day, reviewed again the following morning, and work continues right until the moment the journey is cancelled, to get it covered. Consecutive journeys, and first/last buses, still remain the utmost priority to cover - but the nature of how duties are compiled and allocated, as well as restrictions around driving time and breaks, mean it's really not as easy as taking a driver off one shift and putting them onto another.

There is a huge amount of resource that goes into compiling this list, on a daily basis including weekends - whilst I agree that more could, and should, be done to offer alternatives, I don't think it'd be quite as easy as has been suggested in the past.

Obviously diverting services is another beast completely, and comes with its own complications, which is why it's not done very often other than on the X9/X10.

I don't doubt for one minute that they're the priority to cover, and that everything goes into ensuring they're covered, but I do think that the question of providing alternatives along with the list comes down to a cost vs benefit scenario. Just about anything in business is possible, if you're willing to pay for it.

As a customer, I'd say there's a huge benefit in ensuring someone is tasked to create a resource which can be used by control (or whoever is compiling the list), with some predefined alternatives that can be provided along with the cancellations. I'd also say there was a benefit in being able to hide cancelled trips from the app and journey planners. If I was running the business however, I might think that the cost of producing that information, or what the developers want for a code change, outweighs any benefit to the customer. I get that, and ultimately someone has to make that decision.

I also get that diverting a service comes with it's own complications, but in exceptional circumstances, I feel there should always be a plan in place. We've seen last buses of service cancelled late at night lately, which isn't exactly encouraging to those wanting to use public transport, and is potentially leaving vulnerable people stranded. I appreciate that working practices or the inflexibility cannot be changed with the click of someone's fingers, but I'd hope at least operators would want to address this when reviewing how the labour shortage is handled. It's not about pointing fingers and blaming, but I'd hope operators, as a business, would want to learn and improve.

(19 Oct 2021, 3:26 pm)Adrian wrote Good to see the 17.39 reinstated, but we'll see what happens with regards to the 18.11.

Noted that the 18:11 is running - bus 5255.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/short-noti...%20October I don't think I have seen such bad cancellations ever. (also I put it here didn't know whereelse)

(22 Oct 2021, 4:39 pm)Keeiajs wrote https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/short-noti...%20October I don't think I have seen such bad cancellations ever. (also I put it here didn't know whereelse)

That's the worst its been for a while now.

(22 Oct 2021, 4:45 pm)Michael wrote That's the worst its been for a while now.

In my 18 or odd so years in my sector we’ve never had absence so bad as we’ve had this past week. Majority aren’t Covid either but this cold bug that is sweeping the area. If it wasn’t for home working and some folk soldiering on from their sofas I’d reckon we’d have been at 45% absence this week.

(22 Oct 2021, 4:52 pm)Ambassador wrote In my 18 or odd so years in my sector we’ve never had absence so bad as we’ve had this past week. Majority aren’t Covid either but this cold bug that is sweeping the area. If it wasn’t for home working and some folk soldiering on from their sofas I’d reckon we’d have been at 45% absence this week.

Indeed - I think the fact it fluctuates so greatly tells you it’s still largely sickness-driven rather than a shortage of staff (although, obviously, without the shortage of staff sickness wouldn’t pose an issue).


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(22 Oct 2021, 4:52 pm)Ambassador wrote In my 18 or odd so years in my sector we’ve never had absence so bad as we’ve had this past week. Majority aren’t Covid either but this cold bug that is sweeping the area. If it wasn’t for home working and some folk soldiering on from their sofas I’d reckon we’d have been at 45% absence this week.

Ye, its the same where I work, along with everything else!

(22 Oct 2021, 5:02 pm)Dan wrote Indeed - I think the fact it fluctuates so greatly tells you it’s still largely sickness-driven rather than a shortage of staff (although, obviously, without the shortage of staff sickness wouldn’t pose an issue).


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For me about cancellation's they can cancel a every 12 min route every 24 mins. But its when it comes to routes whcih are every 60 mins 730/X31 while the passengers might not be happy about the 12 min one, the passengers for the every 60 min one would rejoice. Like 730 tomorrow has 240 mins between buses, which afaik no other buses go to anywhere on that route bar Lanchester.

(22 Oct 2021, 5:02 pm)Dan wrote Indeed - I think the fact it fluctuates so greatly tells you it’s still largely sickness-driven rather than a shortage of staff (although, obviously, without the shortage of staff sickness wouldn’t pose an issue).


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Everything's coming back now since everything's back to normal.

(22 Oct 2021, 5:02 pm)Dan wrote Indeed - I think the fact it fluctuates so greatly tells you it’s still largely sickness-driven rather than a shortage of staff (although, obviously, without the shortage of staff sickness wouldn’t pose an issue).


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Ngl it screams like you've been relying on drivers doing overtime to fill the gaps but when things like the football is on they're refusing to come in as they'd rather go to the match (or at least watch it).

(Just an outsider view rather than factual).

(22 Oct 2021, 6:45 pm)Storx wrote Ngl it screams like you've been relying on drivers doing overtime to fill the gaps but when things like the football is on they're refusing to come in as they'd rather go to the match (or at least watch it).

(Just an outsider view rather than factual).

god knows how they will mange if there is a strike.

Feel sorry for anybody wanting an X1 tomorrow night. The last two journeys from Newcastle are both off.

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(22 Oct 2021, 6:57 pm)big mac wrote Feel sorry for anybody wanting an X1 tomorrow night. The last two journeys from Newcastle are both off.

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That is of course the worst case scenario, as of 15:00 this afternoon.

I’m sure work will go into attempting to cover those journeys, as well as the two final journeys on the 49 and 57, four final journeys on the 96, and the large gap in the 730 during the day tomorrow.

As we saw the other day, the final 50 of the day from Durham was covered in the end - but Go North East are posting the worst case scenario as they continue to try and get shifts covered and/or swapped.


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(22 Oct 2021, 7:04 pm)Dan wrote That is of course the worst case scenario, as of 15:00 this afternoon.

I’m sure work will go into attempting to cover those journeys, as well as the two final journeys on the 49 and 57, four final journeys on the 96, and the large gap in the 730 during the day tomorrow.

As we saw the other day, the final 50 of the day from Durham was covered in the end - but Go North East are posting the worst case scenario as they continue to try and get shifts covered and/or swapped.


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Approximately what percentage of journeys that get posted on the cancellation list end up actually running?

Or, on the flip side, how many journeys that don't appear on the list end up getting cancelled?

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(22 Oct 2021, 7:10 pm)big mac wrote Approximately what percentage of journeys that get posted on the cancellation list end up actually running?

Or, on the flip side, how many journeys that don't appear on the list end up getting cancelled?

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No idea, but when colleagues are working round the clock to get duties covered, the picture at 15:00 the day prior is very much a worst case scenario which only ever tends to get better.

Of course as I said previously, when the huge pressure currently is as a result of staff sickness, there do end up being on the day failures which are difficult to prepare for. When spare (leading) drivers are already allocated to work to avoid large gaps, or first/last buses not being covered, this does mean that on the day failures are harder to cover. These are also the ones you find aren’t reported in advance.


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