Can anyone help?

I've seen an old bus timetable late 70s early 80s for the old Northern service 524 (Jarrow depot) which operated South Shields - Jarrow - Newcastle (South Shields - Jarrow - Heworth only 1984-1986).  The terminus point for Newcastle prior to 1984 was listed as Carliol Square as opposed to Workswick Street.  I'm aware Carliol Square is or was the small approach street into Worswick Street, did a number of services omit the bus station and operate straight down the left hand side to a different terminus? It's always intrigued me this and cant find anything on google other than Worswick Street Bus Station.

(17 Feb 2021, 8:20 pm)ifm001 wrote Can anyone help?

I've seen an old bus timetable late 70s early 80s for the old Northern service 524 (Jarrow depot) which operated South Shields - Jarrow - Newcastle (South Shields - Jarrow - Heworth only 1984-1986).  The terminus point for Newcastle prior to 1984 was listed as Carliol Square as opposed to Workswick Street.  I'm aware Carliol Square is or was the small approach street into Worswick Street, did a number of services omit the bus station and operate straight down the left hand side to a different terminus? It's always intrigued me this and cant find anything on google other than Worswick Street Bus Station.

I've racked my brains on this. Carliol Square hasn't been a through road since the Central Motorway was built. Its more a Carliol half a square. 

I can't think of anywhere on what is left of Carliol Square for a vehicle to turn around or do a u-turn of any sort and the only place I can think of where a vehicle could stop, is on the junction of Carliol Square and Worswick St.


I certainly can't remember a stop being there (although I do remember vehicles laying over towards the bottom of the bus station and also blocking off the very bottom set of stops in the bus station.
I also remember the stop outside the cafe/papershop and the likes of the 301 stopping there.

Edit: just found this - https://images.app.goo.gl/GwVJoaKuYtfDGhSy7 could this be the 524 in the distance? That 522 doesn't look like it has came out of the station, so could have been at the same stand.

(17 Feb 2021, 11:00 pm)Andreos1 wrote I've racked my brains on this. Carliol Square hasn't been a through road since the Central Motorway was built. Its more a Carliol half a square. 

I can't think of anywhere on what is left of Carliol Square for a vehicle to turn around or do a u-turn of any sort and the only place I can think of where a vehicle could stop, is on the junction of Carliol Square and Worswick St.


I certainly can't remember a stop being there (although I do remember vehicles laying over towards the bottom of the bus station and also blocking off the very bottom set of stops in the bus station.
I also remember the stop outside the cafe/papershop and the likes of the 301 stopping there.

Edit: just found this - https://images.app.goo.gl/GwVJoaKuYtfDGhSy7  could this be the 524 in the distance? That 522 doesn't look like it has came out of the station, so could have been at the same stand.

Yeah I've seen that picture a few times and the 522 did observe Worswick Street towards the bottom stand. The 301 and 532 both observed the cafe/papershop in late 80s and 90s but was always referred to still as Worswick Street for the terminas. I've only ever seen the 524 as the only service I know of that listed Carliol Square.

Thought this may have been the most appropriate thread. 

Did buses ever layover near Manors Metro? 
It would have been the early 80s and well before the business park was built at Manors, but I can remember waiting at Worswick St, looking east towards Manors and seeing vehicles coming along New Bridge Street. I can vaguely remember them parked up. 

Metro work (can't remember when that section opened without checking)? Layover area before entering the town?

(14 Nov 2021, 10:15 pm)Andreos1 wrote Thought this may have been the most appropriate thread. 

Did buses ever layover near Manors Metro? 
It would have been the early 80s and well before the business park was built at Manors, but I can remember waiting at Worswick St, looking east towards Manors and seeing vehicles coming along New Bridge Street. I can vaguely remember them parked up. 

Metro work (can't remember when that section opened without checking)? Layover area before entering the town?

It would have been well before the 80s, possibly the 60s before the CME was constructed, though it may have continued to act as layover for long-distance buses until the 80s. In some timetables I have from the late 60s/early 70s, some buses are listed as terminating at 'Newcastle Bus Park' (or something similarly named). This was located near Manors and is probably the layover area you describe.

(15 Nov 2021, 4:36 pm)MurdnunoC wrote It would have been well before the 80s, possibly the 60s before the CME was constructed, though it may have continued to act as layover for long-distance buses until the 80s. In some timetables I have from the late 60s/early 70s, some buses are listed as terminating at 'Newcastle Bus Park' (or something similarly named). This was located near Manors and is probably the layover area you describe.

This would have been 83/84ish. No earlier and if later, only a year or so.
We would have been at one of the stands near the top of Worswick St, waiting for a Birtley bus.

After posting the message, I went on Google Street maps and from the top end, you can see the offices at Manors, over the 'sunken' motorway, making the buildings in the business park, appear a shorter walk than they actually are.
Guessing they were built around about the time Warner Bros developed the cinema - which would tie in with the window mentioned above. 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/RZViCAjuj6M4Xn2P7

If that bus park you mention did survive, it could tie things up.

(15 Nov 2021, 5:15 pm)Andreos1 wrote This would have been 83/84ish. No earlier and if later, only a year or so.
We would have been at one of the stands near the top of Worswick St, waiting for a Birtley bus.

After posting the message, I went on Google Street maps and from the top end, you can see the offices at Manors, over the 'sunken' motorway, making the buildings in the business park, appear a shorter walk than they actually are.
Guessing they were built around about the time Warner Bros developed the cinema - which would tie in with the window mentioned above. 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/RZViCAjuj6M4Xn2P7

If that bus park you mention did survive, it could tie things up.

I actually found some information on my old blog (never updated for years) which I accidentally stumbled across whilst searching for more information about the aforementioned bus park.

https://oldtwbustime.wordpress.com/2015/.../#comments

Someone provided more information in the comments section beneath my original post.

(15 Nov 2021, 5:47 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I actually found some information on my old blog (never updated for years) which I accidentally stumbled across whilst searching for more information about the aforementioned bus park.

https://oldtwbustime.wordpress.com/2015/.../#comments

Someone provided more information in the comments section beneath my original post.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Must admit, I had forgot to check out your website - always used to find something interesting on there.

(17 Feb 2021, 11:00 pm)Andreos1 wrote I've racked my brains on this. Carliol Square hasn't been a through road since the Central Motorway was built. Its more a Carliol half a square. 

I can't think of anywhere on what is left of Carliol Square for a vehicle to turn around or do a u-turn of any sort and the only place I can think of where a vehicle could stop, is on the junction of Carliol Square and Worswick St.


I certainly can't remember a stop being there (although I do remember vehicles laying over towards the bottom of the bus station and also blocking off the very bottom set of stops in the bus station.
I also remember the stop outside the cafe/papershop and the likes of the 301 stopping there.

Edit: just found this - https://images.app.goo.gl/GwVJoaKuYtfDGhSy7  could this be the 524 in the distance? That 522 doesn't look like it has came out of the station, so could have been at the same stand.

This is Benjamin Greens Railway Office at the old 1837 Carliol Square terminus of the rail line from the coast. This was just south of the Newcastle Gaol originally south of Worswick St. This is taken in the sixties with the central motorway in construction behind and as you can see occupied by Northern

In the mid- to late-70s I frequently visited Manors Station to peer down into "Manors compound" to view the Northern buses parked and stored there. In those days there was no Metro or Central Motorway and the station platform layout was different to now. If you arrived on a North Tyneside loop train from Heaton or Walkergate direction, the platform you alighted at overlooked the area now called Pandon Bank and Northern used to store brand new buses there. I certainly remember T-reg ECW deckers in yellow TWPTE livery as well as several other types of deckers, all brand-new. All the single-deckers were Nationals in those days.

I seem to remember that other buses used to come and go while I was there, this is probably the site being discussed.

I never took any photos unfortunately, as I have always been a "number-grabber" rather than the type of enthusiast who can tell you the variant of gearbox, engine or chassis type of any particular bus. I only remember the ECW bodies because they were unusual for the NBC companies in those days.

Hope this might stir a few memories in some of the more elderly spotters, so that they can add some more details !

There is an aerial shot around which shows 4 double deckers in the forecourt of the old Manors North station in 1970. Unfortunately I can’t post it here but here’s the location. The forecourt was much reduced by the central motorway by 1975

This map is pre 1925 as it still shows Newcastle Gaol but post 1909 when Manors North was built. As you can see Omnibus depot is marked, the rectangle enclosure above it being the old Carliol Square station and the grey building below the O is the Benjamin Green designed office I posted above Is this the location you mean or was it south of Manors East?

(19 Nov 2024, 3:48 pm)AndyMHeed wrote This map is pre 1925 as it still shows Newcastle Gaol but post 1909 when Manors North was built. As you can see Omnibus depot is marked, the rectangle enclosure above it being the old Carliol Square station and the grey building below the O is the Benjamin Green designed office I posted above Is this the location you mean or was it south of Manors East?

If I'm reading the map correctly, I would say that the area marked as Omnibus Station is near enough the site of Worswick Street bus station. The compound I remember was in the top right corner of the map, somewhere near the area called Trafalgar Granary, may be even slightly further north off the map. I can't remember why we always viewed the buses from above, rather than walk round to the compound. Maybe it had some sort of security gate preventing access to the public.

I'm going to try and make my way over to the Pandon area soon to see if anything rings a bell. Probably all redeveloped now though.

Worswick St is 100m north of the Carliol Square omnibus station off the map at the other end of the gaol. I’ll look at views south of Manors East. Trafalgar St corn lofts were designed by Benjamin Green and built in 1851. They were gutted by German bombing in WW2 but were extant until knocked down in 1971 so could have been used for buses after that.I’ll hunt out a photo as I have seen one of the derelict building.

This is it 1970. I think some of the site has student res and an engineering company on it. The platform finished where those railings are just short of the signal box so you would have a canny view over the cleared site in the past.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Photo 5 here shows the site with buses in situ bottom right as you remembered. Image is from Tyne Wear archives. That’s behind the old tram power station of course so makes sense the site would be used by Northern or PTE

(19 Nov 2024, 11:11 pm)AndyMHeed wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Photo 5 here shows the site with buses in situ bottom right as you remembered. Image is from Tyne Wear archives. That’s behind the old tram power station of course so makes sense the site would be used by Northern or PTE

I remember stuff being parked on the waste land (in the early/mid 80s) which became Manors Business Park.
Think I mentioned it above.

With a clear line of sight, you could see it from the top stands at Worswick Street.

Here’s a nice 1967 aerial view from Tyne Wear archives showing the Carliol Square depot with twenty or so buses in it.
I’ll look for shots of Manors after demolition in 1985 and before the business park to see if there’s anything that caught buses in situ.

(19 Nov 2024, 11:11 pm)AndyMHeed wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Photo 5 here shows the site with buses in situ bottom right as you remembered. Image is from Tyne Wear archives. That’s behind the old tram power station of course so makes sense the site would be used by Northern or PTE

Wow !

Photo 5 shows exactly the place I remember. Every Saturday when Newcastle were playing at home, I used to go to Manors with two fellow bus-spotters and cross the Manors platforms by the footbridge, to get to the platform served by trains coming from Heaton direction (and Riverside branch as well, I suppose). After that we used to walk over the Tyne Bridge and head up Gateshead High Street to the Blue Bell pub for pies and pints before heading back to St. James for the match. Probably viewed Gateshead shed from the opposite wall on the way. Probably also loitered around Gallowgate coach station in case anything exotic was passing through.

In 1977 those buses pictured at Manors compound would have had R or S suffix registrations - single decks would almost certainly be Nationals, double decks probably VRs with ECW or Willowbrook bodies. I'm pretty sure that it was not just buses for Gateshead depot that were stored there, but buses for the whole Northern company. Of course we didn't know which depot they were destined for at the time.

Frightening how quickly time passes, fifty years ago but only seems like yesterday !

Thanks for all your good work in researching this.