(13 Dec 2021, 9:31 am)omnicity4659 wrote I was told by GNE that the DVLA were sorting out their licence applications within 1-2 weeks, because of a fast-track system they have in place.

There is a backlog after the pay settlement, last statistic was 31,000 . It won't be cleared easily and quickly, staff are still not working overtime.

(13 Dec 2021, 10:35 am)54APhotography wrote There is a backlog after the pay settlement, last statistic was 31,000 . It won't be cleared easily and quickly, staff are still not working overtime.

I was told in October by someone in the GNE training department that they were no longer being affected by the backlog, because of the fast-track system I mentioned. "A few days unless they need to do further checks" was the short reply I was given before they went into more detail.

Someone somewhere isn't telling the truth about what is going on within GNE.

Does seem to be very conflicting, how a fast track can happen when there is a backlog...

(12 Dec 2021, 11:12 pm)Andreos1 wrote Day to day management within the operators have led to a high turnover of staff for years and years. 
That's been brushed over by the MSM too or turned in to a political football when strike action is brought up.

This is something we don't look at or talk about enough. It's always the fault of external factors, whether that be congestion, the speed of getting applicants through the DVLA and so on, but as you say, there's been a high turnover of staff right across the industry for years.

I thought there was an interesting line from Martijn on Politics North at the weekend: "Because there is such competition for employment at the moment, people weren't prepared to wait. They didn't need to wait. A better job in another sector was coming along before they had their start dates."

I'm sure it wasn't intended to be the case, but it almost sounds like a defeatist attitude. There's a lot that operators could do to improve the working environment and make people want to come and work from them over competing sectors. Pay of course has a lot to do with it, but the working conditions are another big part of it. You start valuing people instead of a constant focus on cutting overheads, then you start to get loyalty from your workforce.

Also noticed a reference from Cllr Gannon on the same programme, that "the Government needing to make more money available for "what is called" public transport" - only it's not. As operators are keen to remind us, it's a business that needs to make profit. You can't keep requesting that the funding tap be switched on every time you need to top the margin up.

(13 Dec 2021, 11:23 am)54APhotography wrote Does seem to be very conflicting, how a fast track can happen when there is a backlog...

Julie Leonard, Chief Exec of the DVLA made reference to this at one of the select committee meetings a while back now. Apparently there's 'arrangements' that can be put in place for large employers. I assume via a ring-fenced team working on applications from specific employers. 

If I recall correctly, it was in response to an MP asking about Nottingham City Transport having difficulties getting people through the process..

Most drivers only want to work early shifts and don't want split shifts. So maybe if all operators finished at 1730 with no extra buses for schools or peak time, that will sort it the problem! No lates, no splits

(13 Dec 2021, 6:56 pm)DeltaMan wrote Most drivers only want to work early shifts and don't want split shifts. So maybe if all operators finished at 1730 with no extra buses for schools or peak time, that will sort it the problem! No lates, no splits

And no passengers because they can't get home from work when their shop or office shuts at 5:30 (never mind those working shifts)

(13 Dec 2021, 5:10 pm)Adrian wrote This is something we don't look at or talk about enough. It's always the fault of external factors, whether that be congestion, the speed of getting applicants through the DVLA and so on, but as you say, there's been a high turnover of staff right across the industry for years. 

I thought there was an interesting line from Martijn on Politics North at the weekend: "Because there is such competition for employment at the moment, people weren't prepared to wait. They didn't need to wait. A better job in another sector was coming along before they had their start dates."

I'm sure it wasn't intended to be the case, but it almost sounds like a defeatist attitude. There's a lot that operators could do to improve the working environment and make people want to come and work from them over competing sectors. Pay of course has a lot to do with it, but the working conditions are another big part of it. You start valuing people instead of a constant focus on cutting overheads, then you start to get loyalty from your workforce.

Also noticed a reference from Cllr Gannon on the same programme, that "the Government needing to make more money available for "what is called" public transport" - only it's not. As operators are keen to remind us, it's a business that needs to make profit. You can't keep requesting that the funding tap be switched on every time you need to top the margin up.

A whole portion of the sector is dedicated to recruiting and training new members of staff. 
Hundred of thousands of pounds a year is spent on recruitment, training, advertising for new staff and the associated admin costs, for a business which is constantly consolidating and reducing fleet sizes to save on overheads... It's genuinely baffling.

Yet they're arguing about giving drivers a few quid more on their hourly rate and the impact it will have on fares. 
Now they're finger pointing at the DVLA for not processing applications quick enough. 

The problem lies closer to home and until they look to stem the flow, nothing is going to improve.

(14 Dec 2021, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote A whole portion of the sector is dedicated to recruiting and training new members of staff. 
Hundred of thousands of pounds a year is spent on recruitment, training, advertising for new staff and the associated admin costs, for a business which is constantly consolidating and reducing fleet sizes to save on overheads... It's genuinely baffling.

Yet they're arguing about giving drivers a few quid more on their hourly rate and the impact it will have on fares. 
Now they're finger pointing at the DVLA for not processing applications quick enough. 

The problem lies closer to home and until they look to stem the flow, nothing is going to improve.

Fully agree.

In terms of the money spent on recruitment and training, I notice the recent trend towards 'apprentice' bus drivers.  Presumably the likes of GNE make use of the apprenticeship levy?  In which case it's probably an efficient way to get their contributions back....

(14 Dec 2021, 12:54 pm)Chris 1 wrote Fully agree.

In terms of the money spent on recruitment and training, I notice the recent trend towards 'apprentice' bus drivers.  Presumably the likes of GNE make use of the apprenticeship levy?  In which case it's probably an efficient way to get their contributions back.... 

It's a no-brainer as far as the levy goes.
Fool to do otherwise.
Not sure on the funding levels, but can't see it covering everything.

Edit: £6k max funding.
https://findapprenticeshiptraining.appre...ourses/189

(14 Dec 2021, 1:49 pm)Andreos1 wrote It's a no-brainer as far as the levy goes.
Fool to do otherwise.
Not sure on the funding levels, but can't see it covering everything.

Edit: £6k max funding.
https://findapprenticeshiptraining.appre...ourses/189

£6k funding per applicant, but I think an organisation can access all of the 0.5% of their wage bill that they are levied and on a use it or lose it basis. 

Whilst I think its sensible of any organisation to use the funding, it does present another challenge; I'm not sure they can put the financial burden on drivers, post qualification, if they choose to leave before a certain period of time with the company. Or at least if they do, it'd have to be minus that £6,000 per applicant funding - and the figures I've seen quoted previously is that it costs no more than a third of that to train someone up.

(14 Dec 2021, 2:09 pm)Adrian wrote £6k funding per applicant, but I think an organisation can access all of the 0.5% of their wage bill that they are levied and on a use it or lose it basis. 

Whilst I think its sensible of any organisation to use the funding, it does present another challenge; I'm not sure they can put the financial burden on drivers, post qualification, if they choose to leave before a certain period of time with the company. Or at least if they do, it'd have to be minus that £6,000 per applicant funding - and the figures I've seen quoted previously is that it costs no more than a third of that to train someone up.

It had been known for some companies to "buy out" the training bonds if they are desperate for fully trained staff that another company has trained

Seems Omicron is having a impact on GNE services. With Deptford being hit badly recently. Park lane was full of parked up buses.

(14 Dec 2021, 7:41 pm)Keeiajs wrote Seems Omicron is having a impact on GNE services. With Deptford being hit badly recently. Park lane was full of parked up buses.

Wouldn't put that down to Omicron particularly. That sounds like most days at Washington Galleries.

(14 Dec 2021, 8:12 pm)Adrian wrote Wouldn't put that down to Omicron particularly. That sounds like most days at Washington Galleries.

Throughout the staff shortage, Deptford has had very minimal lost mileage. Whilst cancellations at Washington have always been higher, and is more noticeable due to it being spread across a smaller number of services with a much lower PVR, I think the previous poster is correct that the recent spike in Coronavirus cases has impacted upon service delivery over the last few days.


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(14 Dec 2021, 8:45 pm)Dan wrote Throughout the staff shortage, Deptford has had very minimal lost mileage. Whilst cancellations at Washington have always been higher, and is more noticeable due to it being spread across a smaller number of services with a much lower PVR, I think the previous poster is correct that the recent spike in Coronavirus cases has impacted upon service delivery over the last few days.


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I also think at Washington they look a lot bigger because all services switch at Washington, and bar 1 or 2 services none of them terminate there.

(14 Dec 2021, 8:45 pm)Dan wrote Throughout the staff shortage, Deptford has had very minimal lost mileage. Whilst cancellations at Washington have always been higher, and is more noticeable due to it being spread across a smaller number of services with a much lower PVR, I think the previous poster is correct that the recent spike in Coronavirus cases has impacted upon service delivery over the last few days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Specifically Omicron, as suggested in that post? I didn't think we were getting that level of data, because most labs processing PCR tests do not have the capability to test specifically for Omicron, and unless its changed very recently, the turnaround is slightly longer which is further preventing local authorities and businesses from getting an accurate level of data. 

I've noticed cancellations appear to have hit different depots harder at different times, but as you point out, Washington have always been higher (at least going from the cancellation list). Perhaps some of it is due to the higher R rate in the Washington wards over the past number of reporting periods, but hopefully additional work is taking place with the local response teams to ensure it's not occupational based exposure.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...-teesside/

ANE situation in Darlington and Teesside.

I assume that's 190 across Darlington & Stockton, rather than just for Darlington as it reads.

Gotta love the advert for free LGV training alongside the story on the Echo website...

X9/X10

X9 has been temporarily suspended.

(16 Dec 2021, 4:47 pm)Keeiajs wrote X9/X10

X9 has been temporarily suspended.

Since when?

(16 Dec 2021, 6:44 pm)V514DFT wrote Since when?

From the 18th December

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/timetable-...xQK_R3rigw

Mod note: Given how broad this thread is, I've renamed it to be more reflective of the discussion and moved it to the Bus Operations forum, as it's not specific to one operator (and the alternative of having threads in each forum makes less sense!)

Cheers,
Adrian

(16 Dec 2021, 6:51 pm)Michael wrote From the 18th December

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/timetable-...xQK_R3rigw

What's this the 3rd time it's been withdrawn

(16 Dec 2021, 9:48 am)Andreos1 wrote https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...-teesside/

ANE situation in Darlington and Teesside.

"Starting salary of £24000"

Absolute bollocks. New starter rate at Arriva Durham/Stockon etc is £10.10/hr, at Jesmond/Blyth/Ashington it's £9.30/hr. To earn that much you would have to work roughly 46 hours a week at Durham and almost 50 hours a week at J/B/A.

(16 Dec 2021, 7:16 pm)Driver9*** wrote "Starting salary of £24000"

Absolute bollocks. New starter rate at Arriva Durham/Stockon etc is £10.10/hr, at Jesmond/Blyth/Ashington it's £9.30/hr. To earn that much you would have to work roughly 46 hours a week at Durham and almost 50 hours a week at J/B/A.

Although it says average, your calculations are roughly the same as mine.

I don't know why operators refer to it as a salary either. Unless I'm missing something, bus drivers are generally not salaried staff and instead work on a 'time work' (or hourly rate) basis, rather than a salary being paid in instalments across 12 months, 52 weeks or whatever else.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons we're failing to attract drivers? Working for £24k a year might sound attractive enough to apply, but when you're then told you start on £9.30 an hour (which will be minimum wage come April 2022), the prospect doesn't sound so attractive after all.

---

(16 Dec 2021, 12:39 pm)Chris 1 wrote I assume that's 190 across Darlington & Stockton, rather than just for Darlington as it reads.

Gotta love the advert for free LGV training alongside the story on the Echo website...

All the more reason to be more attractive than comparative jobs. The value of driving work has been undermined for years, and the consequences of withdrawing from the largest labour market in the world is now showing through.

When you live by capitalism, you die by capitalism.

(16 Dec 2021, 9:13 pm)Adrian wrote Although it says average, your calculations are roughly the same as mine.

I don't know why operators refer to it as a salary either. Unless I'm missing something, bus drivers are generally not salaried staff and instead work on a 'time work' (or hourly rate) basis, rather than a salary being paid in instalments across 12 months, 52 weeks or whatever else.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons we're failing to attract drivers? Working for £24k a year might sound attractive enough to apply, but when you're then told you start on £9.30 an hour (which will be minimum wage come April 2022), the prospect doesn't sound so attractive after all.

---

All the more reason to be more attractive than comparative jobs. The value of driving work has been undermined for years, and the consequences of withdrawing from the largest labour market in the world is now showing through.

When you live by capitalism, you die by capitalism.

They did advertise the £9.30/hr starting rate on the big adverts on the back of a few buses for a week or two but quiclkly changed it to "Up to £24000 a year" when they realised how pathetic £9.30/hr sounds.

(17 Dec 2021, 10:11 am)Driver9*** wrote They did advertise the £9.30/hr starting rate on the big adverts on the back of a few buses for a week or two but quiclkly changed it to "Up to £24000 a year" when they realised how pathetic £9.30/hr sounds.

Subjective of course, £24k does sound better than £9.30 in my opinion.  From your comments above, I assume that's with a days overtime each week though which makes it sound not quite as good!

I've seen a similar add on facebook recently for Stagecoach.  "Up to £26k* after 2 years" was the headline, not so obvious was the disclaimer that the asterisk was referring to.

(17 Dec 2021, 1:14 pm)Chris 1 wrote Subjective of course, £24k does sound better than £9.30 in my opinion.  From your comments above, I assume that's with a days overtime each week though which makes it sound not quite as good!

I've seen a similar add on facebook recently for Stagecoach.  "Up to £26k* after 2 years" was the headline, not so obvious was the disclaimer that the asterisk was referring to.

Of course it sounds better, but like I wrote earlier, is this not a factor in why operators are struggling to recruit drivers? 

If I was told I would receive a salary of X but then told I'd have to work 48-50 hours a week to make that, and that it's actually worked time rather than a salary, then it's clearly not as attractive as what's being advertised and I'd probably feel like I'm being duped by the prospective employer.

(17 Dec 2021, 1:32 pm)Adrian wrote Of course it sounds better, but like I wrote earlier, is this not a factor in why operators are struggling to recruit drivers? 

If I was told I would receive a salary of X but then told I'd have to work 48-50 hours a week to make that, and that it's actually worked time rather than a salary, then it's clearly not as attractive as what's being advertised and I'd probably feel like I'm being duped by the prospective employer. 

Tie in that with some poor management, lots of responsibility, being monitored for every move you make... Not likely to help with the attrition.

I've often wondered if some sort of bonus (attractive and realistic), would help reduce turnover. Obviously in addition to many other improvements.

I've just received a bonus of the equivalent of 2 weeks salary for doing my job. If I had performed even better, I'd have been rewarded even more. 
Tie that in with a couple of other incentives/bonuses over the course of a year and for those who are motivated by financial reward, then they're going to be a little happier.