(05 Jan 2022, 12:29 am)peter wrote Just to clarify the changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).

I wonder if the new Walkergate depot will be a 'low-cost' unit which will allow them to take on (or make lower bids) more Nexus contracts for example?

(05 Jan 2022, 1:41 pm)Thomas12 wrote I wonder if the new Walkergate depot will be a 'low-cost' unit which will allow them to take on (or make lower bids) more Nexus contracts for example?

Potentially. There's also the focus of Demand Responsive Transport solutions in the upcoming BSIP, which Arriva could look to play a part in given their experience with ArrivaClick.

(05 Jan 2022, 12:29 am)peter wrote Just to clarify the changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).

First obvious service change would be a reduction of the 306 & 308 to every 10 minutes combined (every 20 each) with the 306 no longer seving Battle Hill Drive with both remaining on the Coast Road. PVR interworking would be 13 (reduced from 18).

Tynemouth - Whitley Bay section of 306 axed to keep driving hours down with maybe 51A possibly extended to Marden instead?

(05 Jan 2022, 4:49 pm)L469 YVK wrote First obvious service change would be a reduction of the 306 & 308 to every 10 minutes combined (every 20 each) with the 306 no longer seving Battle Hill Drive with both remaining on the Coast Road. PVR interworking would be 13 (reduced from 18).

Tynemouth - Whitley Bay section of 306 axed to keep driving hours down with maybe 51A possibly extended to Marden instead?

These 'suggestions' are starting to fall within the remit of service suggestions; could we try and keep them in the appropriate threads, please? 

This should remain focused on the sale/move/redevelopment of Jesmond depot.

(05 Jan 2022, 12:29 am)peter wrote Just to clarify the changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).

Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 40's arguably would be the more sensible route since they you'd have all the Enviro's and Pulsars up at Ashington and the 43 already runs to Morpeth anyway for some driver changeovers and all the Streetlites (52/53/54) and Gemini's at Blyth plus whatever 'new' deckers (X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/306/308) they're getting. Would solve the PVR issue aswell, believe the 40's are a slightly higher PVR.

(05 Jan 2022, 5:29 pm)Storx wrote Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 40's arguably would be the more sensible route since they you'd have all the Enviro's and Pulsars up at Ashington and the 43 already runs to Morpeth anyway for some driver changeovers and all the Streetlites (52/53/54) and Gemini's at Blyth plus whatever 'new' deckers (X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/306/308) they're getting. Would solve the PVR issue aswell, believe the 40's are a slightly higher PVR.

Could we possibly see a change to routes with different buses being put on

(05 Jan 2022, 5:29 pm)Storx wrote Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 1/2 I've heard from multiple people working at both depots, the X10/11 seems less substantial but a few folk have mentioned it - less convinced with that one at the moment mind. Don't think any of it has been confirmed officially at this point. 

In terms of the 1, it runs past Ashington at the moment and I believe they used to operate it at one stage. With the 2, you could either interwork it with the 35 to have driver breaks at Ashington, or leave it standalone if you have drivers breaking at Morpeth/travelling on the 35 to Ashington.

(05 Jan 2022, 5:29 pm)Storx wrote Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 40's arguably would be the more sensible route since they you'd have all the Enviro's and Pulsars up at Ashington and the 43 already runs to Morpeth anyway for some driver changeovers and all the Streetlites (52/53/54) and Gemini's at Blyth plus whatever 'new' deckers (X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/306/308) they're getting. Would solve the PVR issue aswell, believe the 40's are a slightly higher PVR.

Sorry should have put in my original post that I was just collating all the current rumours, edited to specify that now. Yeah I agree the 43/44/45 would make more sense for Ashington - the difference would leave 5 spares at Blyth as opposed to 1 - perhaps to get the remaining spares there will finally be the trimming down of the 306/308 that some members of the forum have been suggesting for an eternity. The only other thought I had was perhaps the new Walkergate depot won't just be minibuses and the 52/53/54 will go there, or alternatively, not sure what the passenger numbers are like on that group but could they be downgraded to minibus?

(05 Jan 2022, 6:31 pm)mb134 wrote The 1/2 I've heard from multiple people working at both depots, the X10/11 seems less substantial but a few folk have mentioned it - less convinced with that one at the moment mind. Don't think any of it has been confirmed officially at this point. 

In terms of the 1, it runs past Ashington at the moment and I believe they used to operate it at one stage. With the 2, you could either interwork it with the 35 to have driver breaks at Ashington, or leave it standalone if you have drivers breaking at Morpeth/travelling on the 35 to Ashington.

Yeah that's fair enough then makes sense. See for the 1/2 I'd just assume they'd interwork with each other. 1 to Widdrington, 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth, 2 to Blyth then 1 back to Ashington. Don't see why it couldn't work and arguably the buses are probably better placed up there anyway, should be about right for hours I believe.

(05 Jan 2022, 6:33 pm)peter wrote Sorry should have put in my original post that I was just collating all the current rumours, edited to specify that now. Yeah I agree the 43/44/45 would make more sense for Ashington - the difference would leave 5 spares at Blyth as opposed to 1 - perhaps to get the remaining spares there will finally be the trimming down of the 306/308 that some members of the forum have been suggesting for an eternity. The only other thought I had was perhaps the new Jesmond depot won't just be minibuses and the 52/53/54 will go there, or alternatively, not sure what the passenger numbers are like on that group but could they be downgraded to minibus?

Yeah I had in the back of mind for downgrading them but then you'd just move the problem with lack of minibuses. Mind I do think we're going to get buses from London pretty soonish. I know it's been rumoured on the Arriva London forums a few times lately and they're withdrawing a lot of buses because of PVR cuts down there. I know there's a batch of 09 Enviro's being withdrawn now but they're on lease and there's a batch of DB300's unaccounted for in a few months aswell. They need more buses regardless to get arid of the B7's and Omnicity's since they're not Euro 6 and I doubt Arriva are 'that' stupid to upgrade them.

(05 Jan 2022, 4:56 pm)Adrian wrote These 'suggestions' are starting to fall within the remit of service suggestions; could we try and keep them in the appropriate threads, please? 

This should remain focused on the sale/move/redevelopment of Jesmond depot.

I wouldn't say it's a suggestion (although I have proposed it as a suggestion previously).

- Given a potential move of the 306 to Blyth = reducing dead mileage

- PVR limits at Blyth = Potential PVR cuts meaning marginal frequency reductions

- Driving hour limits

It's a very valid point regarding the actual move as it would have genuine implications that would need to be considered. That doesn't just go for the 306/308 but other services too whether their interworking pattens would change, frequencies whether they'd remain the same or decrease.

A network re-design (large changes to actual routes etc) would easily fall under service suggestions however

(05 Jan 2022, 7:34 pm)L469 YVK wrote I wouldn't say it's a suggestion (although I have proposed it as a suggestion previously).

- Given a potential move of the 306 to Blyth = reducing dead mileage

- PVR limits at Blyth = Potential PVR cuts meaning marginal frequency reductions

- Driving hour limits

It's a very valid point regarding the actual move as it would have genuine implications that would need to be considered. That doesn't just go for the 306/308 but other services too whether their interworking pattens would change, frequencies whether they'd remain the same or decrease.

A network re-design (large changes to actual routes etc) would easily fall under service suggestions however

I'm not sure Arriva share your appetite to nuke their Coast Road services. Along with the X21/22, they were amongst the first/only Northumbria services to be put back up to pre-Covid frequencies (ahead of the X10/11 for example) from memory. IMO the only way they reduce Coast Road frequency is if GNE win their electric bid. 

For what it's worth, I'm spending a decent chunk of time every day at the moment in and around Haymarket and both the 306 and 308 are taking decent loads whenever I see them - though I'm aware that's merely a fraction of the overall route.

Where abouts in Walkergate is the new depot going to be?

(05 Jan 2022, 8:07 pm)V514DFT wrote Where abouts in Walkergate is the new depot going to be?

A very good question !!

Walkergate geographically is a very small area. Move within a quarter of a mile in any direction of Walkergate Metro station and you've left Walkergate, and are in Byker or Heaton or Walkerville or Walker. The only sites I can think of are

1. an area of wasteland on Benfield Road directly opposite the end of Appletree Gardens. That is adjacent to Benfield Park hospital and health centre, but I doubt the NHS would be impressed with the pollution from ancient minibuses drifting into their grounds. Mind you, they already have to contend with noise and pollution from the nearby Heaton railway depot and sidings.

2. areas of wasteland on both sides of Shields Road near the Siemens (Parsons) works. Arguably, these areas are probably in Byker anyway, being close to where the old Newcastle Corporation Byker bus depot used to be.

3. a corner of the yard in the Stagecoach Walkergate depot.

My money is on option 3 given Arriva's reluctance to spend unnecessary money at the moment, and could be attractive to Stagecoach as well, if ever they wanted a few more local services to take over in the Newcastle area. All this assumes that the new depot is only for minibuses, of course.

(05 Jan 2022, 7:55 pm)mb134 wrote I'm not sure Arriva share your appetite to nuke their Coast Road services. Along with the X21/22, they were amongst the first/only Northumbria services to be put back up to pre-Covid frequencies (ahead of the X10/11 for example) from memory. IMO the only way they reduce Coast Road frequency is if GNE win their electric bid. 

For what it's worth, I'm spending a decent chunk of time every day at the moment in and around Haymarket and both the 306 and 308 are taking decent loads whenever I see them - though I'm aware that's merely a fraction of the overall route.

It will all be a numbers game whatever is changed as a result. Either things will stay largely the same give or take some small and or behind the scenes changes. Or the depot move will be the start of a major network refresh similar to GNE had in Sept 2021. But Arriva whilst cutting PVRs do have the ability to actually 'improve' rather than make outright cuts. Some 'deadwood' services mopped up and merged into more streamlined, profitable and improved services.

But going back to 2014, would it not have been easier merging the Blyth & Ashington depots into a new superdepot in Bedlington or Cambois; additionally with an outstation in Alnwick for a small number of routes up that way?

Let’s just throw this into the mix:

I heard that the new Walkergate depot was for both mini buses and electric buses.

So rather than all none mini bus services going to Blyth, maybe some will be staying at Walkergate but upgraded to electric.

(06 Jan 2022, 12:14 am)N391OTY wrote A very good question !!

Walkergate geographically is a very small area. Move within a quarter of a mile in any direction of Walkergate Metro station and you've left Walkergate, and are in Byker or Heaton or Walkerville or Walker. The only sites I can think of are

1. an area of wasteland on Benfield Road directly opposite the end of Appletree Gardens. That is adjacent to Benfield Park hospital and health centre, but I doubt the NHS would be impressed with the pollution from ancient minibuses drifting into their grounds. Mind you, they already have to contend with noise and pollution from the nearby Heaton railway depot and sidings.

2. areas of wasteland on both sides of Shields Road near the Siemens (Parsons) works. Arguably, these areas are probably in Byker anyway, being close to where the old Newcastle Corporation Byker bus depot used to be.

3. a corner of the yard in the Stagecoach Walkergate depot.

My money is on option 3 given Arriva's reluctance to spend unnecessary money at the moment, and could be attractive to Stagecoach as well, if ever they wanted a few more local services to take over in the Newcastle area. All this assumes that the new depot is only for minibuses, of course.

Number 3 is an interesting thought, though not sure on space constraints. I'm sure back when quality contracts were first mooted, there were suggestions of shared depots back then?

Anyone know if the new depot will be owned and built by Arriva, or owned by a third party and Arriva's to use?

(06 Jan 2022, 1:30 am)Bazza wrote Let’s just throw this into the mix:

I heard that the new Walkergate depot was for both mini buses and electric buses. 

So rather than all none mini bus services going to Blyth, maybe some will be staying at Walkergate but upgraded to electric.

That would make more sense as far as the PVR issues. The new depot would then have a more substantial PVR than just 11 or so Solo's and it would ease the pressure on Blyth meaning they can take on the rest of Jesmond's services and only lose the 1/2 to Ashington.

(06 Jan 2022, 12:14 am)N391OTY wrote A very good question !!

Walkergate geographically is a very small area. Move within a quarter of a mile in any direction of Walkergate Metro station and you've left Walkergate, and are in Byker or Heaton or Walkerville or Walker. The only sites I can think of are

1. an area of wasteland on Benfield Road directly opposite the end of Appletree Gardens. That is adjacent to Benfield Park hospital and health centre, but I doubt the NHS would be impressed with the pollution from ancient minibuses drifting into their grounds. Mind you, they already have to contend with noise and pollution from the nearby Heaton railway depot and sidings.

2. areas of wasteland on both sides of Shields Road near the Siemens (Parsons) works. Arguably, these areas are probably in Byker anyway, being close to where the old Newcastle Corporation Byker bus depot used to be.

3. a corner of the yard in the Stagecoach Walkergate depot.

My money is on option 3 given Arriva's reluctance to spend unnecessary money at the moment, and could be attractive to Stagecoach as well, if ever they wanted a few more local services to take over in the Newcastle area. All this assumes that the new depot is only for minibuses, of course.

I reckon your Option 2 might be a decent shout,is that that massive derelict site that runs right upto the back of Byker ASDA?

(06 Jan 2022, 12:14 am)N391OTY wrote A very good question !!

Walkergate geographically is a very small area. Move within a quarter of a mile in any direction of Walkergate Metro station and you've left Walkergate, and are in Byker or Heaton or Walkerville or Walker. The only sites I can think of are

1. an area of wasteland on Benfield Road directly opposite the end of Appletree Gardens. That is adjacent to Benfield Park hospital and health centre, but I doubt the NHS would be impressed with the pollution from ancient minibuses drifting into their grounds. Mind you, they already have to contend with noise and pollution from the nearby Heaton railway depot and sidings.

2. areas of wasteland on both sides of Shields Road near the Siemens (Parsons) works. Arguably, these areas are probably in Byker anyway, being close to where the old Newcastle Corporation Byker bus depot used to be.

3. a corner of the yard in the Stagecoach Walkergate depot.

My money is on option 3 given Arriva's reluctance to spend unnecessary money at the moment, and could be attractive to Stagecoach as well, if ever they wanted a few more local services to take over in the Newcastle area. All this assumes that the new depot is only for minibuses, of course.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to work with (or demolish) but I have a feeling that it might be on the old Heaton Track Maintenance Depot found here - https://goo.gl/maps/aAoKSdyQ5rKWs6dXA

I have a feeling both that and Blyth are short term anyway until a proper depot is built somewhere with them merged but they don't want to spend the money I assume until Blyth is sold. It's literally in the plans for Blyth Town Centre so has to move.

The redevelopment just seems to be knocking a roof down and putting a fence up give or take anyway.

(06 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)Storx wrote I'm not sure how easy it would be to work with (or demolish) but I have a feeling that it might be on the old Heaton Track Maintenance Depot found here - https://goo.gl/maps/aAoKSdyQ5rKWs6dXA

That old carriage shed is full of asbestos.

(06 Jan 2022, 12:14 am)N391OTY wrote A very good question !!

Walkergate geographically is a very small area. Move within a quarter of a mile in any direction of Walkergate Metro station and you've left Walkergate, and are in Byker or Heaton or Walkerville or Walker. The only sites I can think of are

3. a corner of the yard in the Stagecoach Walkergate depot.

My money is on option 3 given Arriva's reluctance to spend unnecessary money at the moment, and could be attractive to Stagecoach as well, if ever they wanted a few more local services to take over in the Newcastle area. All this assumes that the new depot is only for minibuses, of course.

(06 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)Storx wrote I have a feeling both that and Blyth are short term anyway until a proper depot is built somewhere with them merged but they don't want to spend the money I assume until Blyth is sold. It's literally in the plans for Blyth Town Centre so has to move.

This is a long-shot but perhaps a deal will be struck between Arriva and Stagecoach that sees Stagecoach gain the 685, and Arriva store the 11 or so Solo's needed for the minibus work at Walkergate depot short-term. Then eventually the Blyth-Newcastle super depot will be constructed?

The new depot will be built on the land to the west of Siemens, adj to Chilli Rd metro station. Drivers will use the metro to get into town for relief.

(08 Jan 2022, 8:07 am)RobinHood wrote The new depot will be built on the land to the west of Siemens, adj to Chilli Rd metro station. Drivers will use the metro to get into town for relief.

Part of that plot is being used by Quay Timber. I wonder if they vacate or Arriva just use the part of it that’s left.

(08 Jan 2022, 10:50 am)ne14ne1 wrote Part of that plot is being used by Quay Timber. I wonder if they vacate or Arriva just use the part of it that’s left.

If, as suggested, there are only going to be about a dozen vehicles at this new depot then actually building a depot seems overkill - a dozen buses is more like a rented yard.

(08 Jan 2022, 12:53 pm)busmanT wrote If, as suggested, there are only going to be about a dozen vehicles at this new depot then actually building a depot seems overkill - a dozen buses is more like a rented yard.

Staff info suggests the PVR will be around 30.

(08 Jan 2022, 3:11 pm)RobinHood wrote Staff info suggests the PVR will be around 30.

So clearly not just the minibus network as rumoured.

(08 Jan 2022, 4:12 pm)peter wrote So clearly not just the minibus network as rumoured.

Unless the 50's get downgraded. Would be very close to 30 including spares then. The 52/53 used to be minibuses anyway for years until they went to Jesmond. 340/342/343/344

(08 Jan 2022, 7:20 pm)Storx wrote Unless the 50's get downgraded. Would be very close to 30 including spares then. The 52/53 used to be minibuses anyway for years until they went to Jesmond. 340/342/343/344

Entirely possible I suppose, only issue is there wouldn't be enough Solo's to execute that. Perhaps the Eco Green Streetlites will be allocated to the new depot for the 52/53/54.

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(08 Jan 2022, 8:07 am)RobinHood wrote The new depot will be built on the land to the west of Siemens, adj to Chilli Rd metro station. Drivers will use the metro to get into town for relief.

Surprised that Arriva would rely on the Metro to get its drivers to where they need to be

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(08 Jan 2022, 7:59 pm)peter wrote Entirely possible I suppose, only issue is there wouldn't be enough Solo's to execute that. Perhaps the Eco Green Streetlites will be allocated to the new depot for the 52/53/54.

not just a minibus depot then?

(08 Jan 2022, 10:29 pm)Bazza wrote

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Surprised that Arriva would rely on the Metro to get its drivers to where they need to be

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not just a minibus depot then?

Well a rumoured PVR of 30 doesn't add up when the minibus PVR at Jesmond is currently 11. So there are three options, either there's gonna be a minibus downgrade (but that would involve some Solo's coming from Durham or Darlington), the depot won't just be minibus or it's also been rumoured the depot will be minibus and electric so there could be 15 odd electric's on the way.