Go North East 6352 / YX70 OKM by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Go North East 6354 / YX70 OKO by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Go North East 6353 / YX70 OKN by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Go North East 6355 / YX70 OKP by kieron mathews, on Flickr

all four in service today before 6052 was replaced by 6081

(30 Jan 2022, 3:09 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Google Maps says 15 mins by car between Dalton Park & Seaham A19 slip road via Byron Place, so I've added 5 mins to factor in slower acceleration and stops.
Whatever customers get fed up with what would end up being a 30 min increase in journey times between Newcastle and Peterlee will either consider buying a car or walking to Horden station and getting a train...which would still be faster than the X10. Newcastle to Peterlee appeared to be very popular when I last used the services, so I think it would be safe to not piss these customers off any more?

Tbh if people wanted to get the train from Hordon they probs would have by now. and it would only be a extra 15 mins, would people wanting to go to Newcastle at Seaham area be more than get on from peterlee - if they advertise about the day tickets then maybe they would get. a lot.

I think the X10 needs advertising about. under 25 day/weekly tickets being accepted

(30 Jan 2022, 3:09 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Google Maps says 15 mins by car between Dalton Park & Seaham A19 slip road via Byron Place, so I've added 5 mins to factor in slower acceleration and stops.
Whatever customers get fed up with what would end up being a 30 min increase in journey times between Newcastle and Peterlee will either consider buying a car or walking to Horden station and getting a train...which would still be faster than the X10. Newcastle to Peterlee appeared to be very popular when I last used the services, so I think it would be safe to not piss these customers off any more?

I wouldn’t put the x10 down to Byron place, propose X10 only serve B1285 stopping at mill inn and then top of avenue along B1285


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(30 Jan 2022, 5:35 pm)Omega54 wrote Tbh if people wanted to get the train from Hordon they probs would have by now. and it would only be a extra 15 mins, would people wanting to go to Newcastle at Seaham area be more than get on from peterlee - if they advertise about the day tickets then maybe they would get. a lot.

I think the X10 needs advertising about. under 25 day/weekly tickets being accepted

It takes 40 minutes for someone to drive from their door to Newcastle, the X10 is slow enough as it is with Dalton Park etc served, that extra 20 minutes (40 minutes a day is far too long). You might aswell curtail it at Seaham as no-one South of there would be using it unless they have no choice.

(30 Jan 2022, 5:44 pm)Storx wrote It takes 40 minutes for someone to drive from their door to Newcastle, the X10 is slow enough as it is with Dalton Park etc served, that extra 20 minutes (40 minutes a day is far too long). You might aswell curtail it at Seaham as no-one South of there would be using it unless they have no choice.

Well, maybe not at Seaham Byron place, but Mill Inn (I think that is what its called) would really add no time at all, seems as though it needs to curtail around at Dalton Park which takes a long time

(30 Jan 2022, 2:49 pm)omnicity4659 wrote 10:10 X10 from Newcastle, arrives Middlesbrough at 11:54, 1hr 44mins
10:40 Northern from Newcastle via Sunderland, arrives Middlesbrough at 11:59, 1hr 19mins
10:45 TPE from Newcastle to Darlington (11:15), 11:23 Northern from Darlington, arrives Middlesbrough at 11:50, 1hr 5mins

Northern charge £7 for the route via Hartlepool.
Pretty sure it's just over £15 going via Darlo.

Whack in a railcard and the financial saving is significant. Regardless of any time savings. 

Unless they do something about the X10, can see them saying they lost out to the train again. Just like they did with the X85.

(30 Jan 2022, 6:02 pm)Omega54 wrote Well, maybe not at Seaham Byron place, but Mill Inn (I think that is what its called) would really add no time at all, seems as though it needs to curtail around at Dalton Park which takes a long time

You'd probs need about 6-7 minutes to pass between the two A19 junctions and via Seaham which will likely still be slightly more than currently stopping at Dalton Park, also Dalton Park will be more of a draw to people living elsewhere along the route as opposed to stopping in Seaham although could potentially still pick up but right now at least I would leave the X10 as is as a fair few people do get on/off at Dalton Park currently.

(30 Jan 2022, 2:58 pm)Omega54 wrote Also if it were to come to seaham might make others chose the X10 over the train, for people who want to study at Newcastle or Middlesbrough it might not be faster but it can be cheaper, especially they have the price at 1:20.

Also if they advertise that Under 25 weekly/day tickets work on the X10, and they need to get the bus from the train station then..more passengers, as I didn't know they worked untill very recently and it always stopped me getting the X10

It might encourage people to use the X10 over the train. If they live closer to these potential X10 stops, than they do the station. 
If they don't, do you get a bus to those stops or do you get a bus to the station? Or do you just drive to wherever you want to be?

I firmly believe GNE need to do something about the stations and work to complement the trains. Not compete against them.
Seaham is a case in point, with the 71 stopping within spitting distance of the station, but it not being co-ordinated at all.
There's many others within walking distance and there's absolutely no integration or partnership working at all from what I can see.

(30 Jan 2022, 8:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote It might encourage people to use the X10 over the train. If they live closer to these potential X10 stops, than they do the station. 
If they don't, do you get a bus to those stops or do you get a bus to the station? Or do you just drive to wherever you want to be?

I firmly believe GNE need to do something about the stations and work to complement the trains. Not compete against them.
Seaham is a case in point, with the 71 stopping within spitting distance of the station, but it not being co-ordinated at all.
There's many others within walking distance and there's absolutely no integration or partnership working at all from what I can see.

X10 could trial it, from Seaham Mill Inn, and see what passenger numbers are like but advertise it. I can see it being cheaper than the train (advertise the fares) - I think it could do a lot of good.

(30 Jan 2022, 8:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote Northern charge £7 for the route via Hartlepool.
Pretty sure it's just over £15 going via Darlo.

Whack in a railcard and the financial saving is significant. Regardless of any time savings. 

Unless they do something about the X10, can see them saying they lost out to the train again. Just like they did with the X85.

Hypothetically does it really matter though. If all the passengers did use the train which resulted in there being enough demand for it to be increased to 2 trains an hour. It's a win for everyone.

It's not as if anyone is really losing anything if there was decent connections to Hordon, Seaham, Billingham, Middlesbrough and Thornaby stations.

It's the same as Hexham if there was decent connections to the stations and integrated fares does it really matter. It should be public transport vs taxi vs car. Not metro vs local train vs intercity train vs GoNorthEast vs Arriva vs Stagecoach vs local independents vs taxi vs car. Only one will win.

The only issue with a diversion via the top of Seaham for the X10 would be the traffic at Seaton (at the Lodge Lights), which at peak times can be an issue. I think the route itself should add no more than a few minutes. A diversion via Seaham Town Centre would perhaps serve more people, even if still limited stop - stopping at the Harbour would of course be the main interchange area for people, plus access to beach, shops etc., but it would certainly increase journey times - perhaps too much.

Having said that, the train services on the Durham coast line have a lot of issues. The local MP is trying, but not getting very far it seems, in trying to get the service up to scratch. Trains too full which either leads to overcrowding in a pandemic or the most likely option that passengers are left behind at stations. The situation has only got worse since Horden opened. It’s a shame in one respect that GNE haven’t sensed an opportunity for a Newcastle express from Seaham, links that existed even 15 years ago. On the face of it, it’s easy to say the train is quicker to Newcastle, but when the train now has reputation for not serving communities then it’s perhaps time for a change.

A Newcastle bus from Seaham could run via the Seaton/Houghton corridor and would then eliminate the need for the ‘loss making’ 71 in that stretch - and combined with the X1 timetable. Or even a separate service via Doxford International and A19. Also - without looking too much into journey - perhaps even something via Nissan or Follingsby could be worked in. That way providing some commuter opportunities too. As whilst I think some working situations and commuter travel may be permanently reduced, I think we might see an increase in leisure travel. People wishing to let their hair down more and be a bit more social. So buses that combine a bit of both makes sense.

(30 Jan 2022, 9:15 pm)Drifter60 wrote The only issue with a diversion via the top of Seaham for the X10 would be the traffic at Seaton (at the Lodge Lights), which at peak times can be an issue. I think the route itself should add no more than a few minutes. A diversion via Seaham Town Centre would perhaps serve more people, even if still limited stop - stopping at the Harbour would of course be the main interchange area for people, plus access to beach, shops etc., but it would certainly increase journey times - perhaps too much.

Having said that, the train services on the Durham coast line have a lot of issues. The local MP is trying, but not getting very far it seems, in trying to get the service up to scratch. Trains too full which either leads to overcrowding in a pandemic or the most likely option that passengers are left behind at stations. The situation has only got worse since Horden opened. It’s a shame in one respect that GNE haven’t sensed an opportunity for a Newcastle express from Seaham, links that existed even 15 years ago. On the face of it, it’s easy to say the train is quicker to Newcastle, but when the train now has reputation for not serving communities then it’s perhaps time for a change.

A Newcastle bus from Seaham could run via the Seaton/Houghton corridor and would then eliminate the need for the ‘loss making’ 71 in that stretch - and combined with the X1 timetable. Or even a separate service via Doxford International and A19. Also - without looking too much into journey - perhaps even something via Nissan or Follingsby could be worked in. That way providing some commuter opportunities too. As whilst I think some working situations and commuter travel may be permanently reduced, I think we might see an increase in leisure travel. People wishing to let their hair down more and be a bit more social. So buses that combine a bit of both makes sense.

Seems as though the X1 has a long layover at DP you could end it at Seaham, but also you could make a new one as you said at every 60 mins, with the X1 complementing it to every 30 mins.

(30 Jan 2022, 9:24 pm)Omega54 wrote Seems as though the X1 has a long layover at DP you could end it at Seaham, but also you could make a new one as you said at every 60 mins, with the X1 complementing it to every 30 mins.

Not really, on a route that long you ideally want at least a decent chunk of layover at the end (I'd say at least 5 minutes). Sending it to Seaham and back gives it essentially no layover, while increasing opportunity for disruption. 

To be honest, 15 minutes to Seaham and back would be tight in a car if you encounter even a small amount of traffic. In a bus, with stopping, it would be virtually impossible. So you'd be looking at a PVR increase.

(30 Jan 2022, 9:29 pm)mb134 wrote Not really, on a route that long you ideally want at least a decent chunk of layover at the end (I'd say at least 5 minutes). Sending it to Seaham and back gives it essentially no layover, while increasing opportunity for disruption. 

To be honest, 15 minutes to Seaham and back would be tight in a car if you encounter even a small amount of traffic. In a bus, with stopping, it would be virtually impossible. So you'd be looking at a PVR increase.

There is a 8 min layover in eldon square. 

But I also think, that X1 extension to Dp, everytime I have been everyone has asked what was that, and really shows.

(30 Jan 2022, 8:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote It might encourage people to use the X10 over the train. If they live closer to these potential X10 stops, than they do the station. 
If they don't, do you get a bus to those stops or do you get a bus to the station? Or do you just drive to wherever you want to be?

I firmly believe GNE need to do something about the stations and work to complement the trains. Not compete against them.
Seaham is a case in point, with the 71 stopping within spitting distance of the station, but it not being co-ordinated at all.
There's many others within walking distance and there's absolutely no integration or partnership working at all from what I can see.

(30 Jan 2022, 9:10 pm)Storx wrote Hypothetically does it really matter though. If all the passengers did use the train which resulted in there being enough demand for it to be increased to 2 trains an hour. It's a win for everyone.

It's not as if anyone is really losing anything if there was decent connections to Hordon, Seaham, Billingham, Middlesbrough and Thornaby stations.

It's the same as Hexham if there was decent connections to the stations and integrated fares does it really matter. It should be public transport vs taxi vs car. Not metro vs local train vs intercity train vs GoNorthEast vs Arriva vs Stagecoach vs local independents vs taxi vs car. Only one will win.

You must have missed my next post

I agree.

Until something is done and they do start working together, then factors like time, price and convenience will win.
Regardless of the actual product on offer.

Was think a Hartlepool - Newcastle via Seaham would work but then that would be slower than train as well as limited options from Seaham

With 6336 and 6337 being transferred and used on Riverside routes at the moment and 6377 being used on X21, are 6336 and 6337 going to be the spares for the X10?

(01 Feb 2022, 8:07 pm)Tiger5105 wrote With 6336 and 6337 being transferred and used on Riverside routes at the moment and 6377 being used on X21, are 6336 and 6337 going to be the spares for the X10?

Well by the looks of it, one of 6001/49/50 will be needed on the Tyne Valley Ten for the PVR increase.

The ULEZ decker PVR at Riverside & Hexham (10/10A/10B/27/58/X10) is 37

So that would mean 2x out of 6001/49/50; 6336-37 and eventually 6377 giving a spare ratio of 1:7.4.

However, 6099 could also be moved from Percy Main and utilised to allow 6377 to carry out misc workings including the summer X11 runs (if they return).

Are the Versas on the 684 the permanent allocation now? I think ADL Enviro 200 MMCs would be much better. Personally I think it's time Hexham got new buses for the 74/X85 and local services.

Hopefully we'll see ticket acceptance on the 685 soon.

(01 Feb 2022, 9:19 pm)L469 YVK wrote The ULEZ decker PVR at Riverside & Hexham (10/10A/10B/27/58/X10) is 37

Sorry to nitpick but it's a CAZ not ULEZ. ULEZ in London includes private cars, CAZ's found elsewhere don't. 

(01 Feb 2022, 10:02 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Are the Versas on the 684 the permanent allocation now? I think ADL Enviro 200 MMCs would be much better. Personally I think it's time Hexham got new buses for the 74/X85 and local services.

Hopefully we'll see ticket acceptance on the 685 soon.

It certainly looks that way. The only E200 MMC's GNE have are for the Green Arrow - they're not gonna move them off there and where is the money gonna come from for new ones? For a service that can't justify keeping E400 MMC's it certainly won't justify new E200 MMC's. I'm sure the Versa's will be adequate, the only other realistic alternative is Streetlites - not sure which of those is the best option tbh.

As has been said before, if the ZEBRA bus fund is successful then there will be new electric vehicles on the Hexham locals including the beloved 74 soon-ish. Hexham's Solo's are just under 6 years old - the MPD's used beforehand were 13 years old when replaced so I think you should bear that in mind. If everyone had their way, GNE would be buying new buses for every route every year. Having said that, if the contract specification is euro 6 there's a good chance the Solo's might get replaced regardless.

(02 Feb 2022, 12:07 am)peter wrote Sorry to nitpick but it's a CAZ not ULEZ. ULEZ in London includes private cars, CAZ's found elsewhere don't. 

It certainly looks that way. The only E200 MMC's GNE have are for the Green Arrow - they're not gonna move them off there and where is the money gonna come from for new ones? For a service that can't justify keeping E400 MMC's it certainly won't justify new E200 MMC's. I'm sure the Versa's will be adequate, the only other realistic alternative is Streetlites - not sure which of those is the best option tbh.

As has been said before, if the ZEBRA bus fund is successful then there will be new electric vehicles on the Hexham locals including the beloved 74 soon-ish. Hexham's Solo's are just under 6 years old - the MPD's used beforehand were 13 years old when replaced so I think you should bear that in mind. If everyone had their way, GNE would be buying new buses for every route every year. Having said that, if the contract specification is euro 6 there's a good chance the Solo's might get replaced regardless.

Personally I think Solos will be going there from Percy Main rather than them getting bigger buses. There's going to be loads spare soon. I have a feeling Versa's or Streetlites will be going the other way to Percy Main depending on what happens.

637 - 639, 651, 652 maybe.

(02 Feb 2022, 1:15 pm)Storx wrote Personally I think Solos will be going there from Percy Main rather than them getting bigger buses. There's going to be loads spare soon. I have a feeling Versa's or Streetlites will be going the other way to Percy Main depending on what happens.

637 - 639, 651, 652 maybe.

tbh the 9 could do with Solo's with the smaller streetlites going on the X6/62.

(02 Feb 2022, 5:42 pm)Omega54 wrote tbh the 9 could do with Solo's with the smaller streetlites going on the X6/62.

Why?

(02 Feb 2022, 7:57 pm)deanmachine wrote Why?

Generally, when I see both the 9 & 5 and been on them they are pretty dead, whereas when I have been on the X6 & 62 they have been quite full and their is always a queue for them

6337, is on the X10 for the first time since the re-brand.

With 6352 being off.

https://flic.kr/p/2n1CYNB

Is this driver using the old destination or do they still technically terminate at The Gate after stopping at Eldon Sq Bus Station?

(02 Feb 2022, 7:58 pm)Omega54 wrote Generally, when I see both the 9 & 5 and been on them they are pretty dead, whereas when I have been on the X6 & 62 they have been quite full and their is always a queue for them

The heaviest loading s/b is the 08:01 that carries a hefty load to the Spectrum and a few to Dalton Park, but I've rarely seen a X6 anywhere near full down in Grangetown, Ryhope or Seaham.

(03 Feb 2022, 9:57 am)ne14ne1 wrote https://flic.kr/p/2n1CYNB

Is this driver using the old destination or do they still technically terminate at The Gate after stopping at Eldon Sq Bus Station?

Driver has no control of that destination as it automatically changes to The Gate at Gateshead.

(03 Feb 2022, 2:37 pm)deanmachine wrote Driver has no control of that destination as it automatically changes to The Gate at Gateshead.

Yeah just wondered if they should’ve selected a destination code that changes from Newcastle to Eldon Square or whether they (plus NSAs) haven’t been reprogrammed yet.

X10 now to Eldon Square, rather than The Gate as per posts above.

https://flic.kr/p/2n25yDB