(22 Mar 2022, 4:58 pm)Dan wrote I'm not sure I agree that it wasn't 'the best idea'. Go North East needed to upgrade capacity on service 16, which allowed some peak-time resource to be taken out (more cost effective). On average there are normally three Hybrids off the road at any given time, so three spares are allocated (6064, 6069, 6070). They also didn't meet the requirements for the CAZ, so had to be moved out of Newcastle city centre (though the council are now considering an exemption given the number of these that Stagecoach operate into the city).

There are more off the road at the moment, but this mainly relates to the shortage of labour across the industry. Volvo, like most sectors, are short of staff - this means the buses go to Volvo and wait to be repaired. We're jumping to conclusions if we assume it's because the work they're on is too strenuous for that type of vehicle; most drivers comment and say that they are much better than the Streetlites previously allocated.

Last week there was four ADL E400s off the road - are we going to suggest that they are allocated to work that's too strenuous?

Not at all but they've been unreliable long before the past few weeks, the fact there's 3 off the road when there's only 15 of them doesn't exactly show they're the best.

They're only there because there's literally no-where else for them to go without selling them imo. The ex. London B9's would be a much better fit with the hybrids on the 58/93/94 but obviously the LEZ has stopped that, where the stop start would actually be handy.

(22 Mar 2022, 5:17 pm)Storx wrote Not at all but they've been unreliable long before the past few weeks, the fact there's 3 off the road when there's only 15 of them doesn't exactly show they're the best.

They're only there because there's literally no-where else for them to go without selling them imo. The ex. London B9's would be a much better fit with the hybrids on the 58/93/94 but obviously the LEZ has stopped that, where the stop start would actually be handy.

They could easily switch if Newcastle allow it. But with the B9's interiors switched

(22 Mar 2022, 5:27 pm)Unber43 wrote They could easily switch if Newcastle allow it. But with the B9's interiors switched

I don't think 'easily' describes it. The PVR's don't match first of all, 7 Loops and 6 58's compared to 8 16's so you either have to swap 8 16's for 7 loops and a 58 or the whole lot. If you go for the first option that's 16 buses to repaint, the latter you're looking at 26. If you're doing the whole batch then there's the fact tables etc have been retrofitted to the X5/15 ones so do they need to be swapped, plus the interior branding, is it that simple or would it need to be completely redone. Seems like a lot of time, effort and money. Not saying GNE haven't done big swaps before but for the sake of a slight issue in reliability, GNE might be better upgrading 6177-6181 to Euro 6 and using them as spares at Consett or acquiring similar additional B9's for scholars/spare.

(22 Mar 2022, 6:02 pm)peter wrote I don't think 'easily' describes it. The PVR's don't match first of all, 7 Loops and 6 58's compared to 8 16's so you either have to swap 8 16's for 7 loops and a 58 or the whole lot. If you go for the first option that's 16 buses to repaint, the latter you're looking at 26. If you're doing the whole batch then there's the fact tables etc have been retrofitted to the X5/15 ones so do they need to be swapped, plus the interior branding, is it that simple or would it need to be completely redone. Seems like a lot of time, effort and money. Not saying GNE haven't done big swaps before but for the sake of a slight issue in reliability, GNE might be better upgrading 6177-6181 to Euro 6 and using them as spares at Consett or acquiring similar additional B9's for scholars/spare.

A slight issue in reliability which, when the world isn’t short-staffed, shouldn’t be a huge issue - as I said before, on average three Hybrids are off service at any time, and there are three spare Hybrids allocated to Consett.

It’s not the first time (and I’m sure won’t be the last!) that this forum has gotten over-excited in a short term high VOR with these Hybrids!


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An extension of the X22 to the Arnison Centre could be good. would really give the name 'Centrelink' a boost so Centre to Centre. could also push people to get the X20 from Sunderland and get the bus from the Arnison Centre quicker Also providing new quicker links to Durham & surrounding areas

(21 Mar 2022, 8:49 pm)Storx wrote It's impossible to have the X30 run standalone, it's an hourly service which takes 40 minutes end to end (roughly). Unless you want buses sitting around doing nothing every run for 20 minutes there's no way you can timetable it sensibly.

They could split the X30/X31 & X70/X71/X72 but still interwork the X30/X31 with each other if that kinda makes sense at least during the day with relief at Stanley? Would certainly help with reliability and also help with spares on the basis that a spare 'full height' decker could be allocated on the X70/X71/X72 if needed. Obviously the X70/X71/X72 would still interwork with each other and some relief at Stanley depending where the rotas and shifts fall (i.e CON - NCL - CON - NCL - STY then STY- NCL- CON - NCL - CON , that would fall within legal driving limits).

But running the X30 standalone during the evenings and on Sundays however would be commercial suicide.

(23 Mar 2022, 8:12 pm)L469 YVK wrote They could split the X30/X31 & X70/X71/X72 but still interwork the X30/X31 with each other if that kinda makes sense at least during the day with relief at Stanley? Would certainly help with reliability and also help with spares on the basis that a spare 'full height' decker could be allocated on the X70/X71/X72 if needed. Obviously the X70/X71/X72 would still interwork with each other and some relief at Stanley depending where the rotas and shifts fall (i.e CON - NCL - CON - NCL - STY then STY- NCL- CON - NCL - CON , that would fall within legal driving limits).

But running the X30 standalone during the evenings and on Sundays however would be commercial suicide.

Aye definitely, not sure on the benefits though. The post I replied to said to run the X30 by itself and the X31/X70/X71/X72 together though which is impossible (without silly layovers).

(23 Mar 2022, 8:20 pm)Storx wrote Aye definitely, not sure on the benefits though. The post I replied to said to run the X30 by itself and the X31/X70/X71/X72 together though which is impossible (without silly layovers).

Pretty sure they already do, do changeovers in Stanley. or it might have been a one off due to rescheduling drivers.

(22 Mar 2022, 6:09 pm)Dan wrote A slight issue in reliability which, when the world isn’t short-staffed, shouldn’t be a huge issue - as I said before, on average three Hybrids are off service at any time, and there are three spare Hybrids allocated to Consett.

It’s not the first time (and I’m sure won’t be the last!) that this forum has gotten over-excited in a short term high VOR with these Hybrids!


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When the excess streetdecks do leave Consett and go 6064, 6069 and 6070 are the spares for the diamond, what will become the Red Kite Ranger spare? Saying that, other than 6045 these B9's with over 800k on the clock (being previous x10's) seem to be coping with a long route, quite well.

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(23 Mar 2022, 8:20 pm)Storx wrote Aye definitely, not sure on the benefits though. The post I replied to said to run the X30 by itself and the X31/X70/X71/X72 together though which is impossible (without silly layovers).

Well the main benefits would be improved recovery time and also flexibility in allocations meaning that the X70/X71/X72 could be allocated a full height decker if an E400MMC was off the road.

This is probably a long shot suggestion seeing as the previous M6/7/8 routes were withdrew due to low usage, but a quicker route to the Metrocentre from Stanley.

I've been thinking about this but could GNE not get away with reducing the Cobalt & Coast PVR to 15x from 16x if they followed the example of Arriva's revised 53 & 54 by not serving the Cobalt Bus Link (Silver Fox Way & Quicksilver Way) and instead just run the 309 straight down The Silverlink North?

Would mean that the 309, 310, 311 could all go standalone and run with the following max driving hours during the day also taking into account time spent in the van for a remote changeover.

- 309 - 4hr 40m (2x round trips)

- 310 - 5hr (okay not 5hr but if driver picked up bus ex North Shields at Verne Road and was relieved ex Newcastle towards North Shields, would bring the driving hours at around 4hr 30m)

- 311 - 4hr (4x round trips)

Obviously I know the 309 was a bit tight during the covid recovery timetable before they all interworked again but it would be another bus out of the PVR with only a minor route change.

Just seen someone mention the 58 and it got me thinking that they should change the 19 to serve the route as it appears to be having timetabling problems as it's too tight.

By doing the following route:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/East+Har...b1!1m0!3e0

It would give New Hartley an hourly link rather than it's 2 a day service and a service towards North Shields / Metro with the bonus of giving the 19 getting some padding by 7 minutes or so.

They're both contracted services now anyway seems better use of the bus imo rather than them duplicating each other from East Cramlington to Cramlington give or take a minute and the pointless Beacon Hill section, the X9 is a 5 minute walk max.

(04 Apr 2022, 4:53 pm)Storx wrote Just seen someone mention the 58 and it got me thinking that they should change the 19 to serve the route as it appears to be having timetabling problems as it's too tight.

By doing the following route:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/East+Har...b1!1m0!3e0

It would give New Hartley an hourly link rather than it's 2 a day service and a service towards North Shields / Metro with the bonus of giving the 19 getting some padding by 7 minutes or so.

They're both contracted services now anyway seems better use of the bus imo rather than them duplicating each other from East Cramlington to Cramlington give or take a minute and the pointless Beacon Hill section, the X9 is a 5 minute walk max.

What would the timings be like on this as oppose to now?

Also talking about contracts, i was thinking the 515 & Maybe the TB529 could be replaced by extending the 58.

(04 Apr 2022, 5:33 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote What would the timings be like on this as oppose to now?

Also talking about contracts, i was thinking the 515 & Maybe the TB529 could be replaced by extending the 58.

Can't comment on timings exactly, but it's roughly 5 minutes longer via New Hartley and it duplicates the current 58 from the hospital to Cramlington. There should be 10 mins or so at East Hartford vs the 2 minutes or so now. They're both contracted routes partly or all by Northumberland anyway.

Can't say much about the 515/TB529 though, I literally know nothing about them tbf.

(04 Apr 2022, 5:33 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote What would the timings be like on this as oppose to now?

Also talking about contracts, i was thinking the 515 & Maybe the TB529 could be replaced by extending the 58.

The roads along st John's avenue and toner avenue where the TB529 operate in Hebburn are unsuitable for a bus. 

I thought there was talk of the 58 going to follingsby Amazon?

My bus pass doesn't work in Scotland ???

Problem with 309 310 311 the timings are pretty much accurate on the core corridor however the timings relate to traffic congestion on the Coast Road / Cradlewell / Corner House area

Imo leave the routes going through Silverlink and Cobalt

It would be criminal to change this current plan and also its not just the route you would effect but the branding Cobalt and Coast

GNE has the monopoly on commuting from Newcastle to Cobalt and Silverlink over SNE 22 service

Cutting a service pushes people to use cars and not buses

Which is the opposite idea of operating a bus service

I sometimes can't decide if people are being like thatcher and wanting to cut services and jobs or actually help the industry and give them ideas to run a service!

The X39 runs at core times to provide an Express service but doesn't warrant a regular service

It's crazy to think bus enthusiasts want to cut services and cut routes and chop key working sites out of a bus route to save one bus an hour operating

Shouldn't bus enthusiasts be looking at adding buses and routes and serve locations

Once you cut a service it never comes back ever!

Look at routes from the 80s and 90s we have never seen them back

With the X11 returning for the summer season, i wonder if it could be extended to serve sunderland interchange adding an extra stop for passengers without having to travel to washington to have a day out, it would only add 15 mins to the journey and would create a new link

(05 Apr 2022, 6:44 am)N1cholas wrote With the X11 returning for the summer season, i wonder if it could be extended to serve sunderland interchange adding an extra stop for passengers without having to travel to washington to have a day out, it would only add 15 mins to the journey and would create a new link

Passengers from Sunderland could board the x6 and get off at the moorcock and walk round a corner and get the x11 from A19 slip road southbound


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(05 Apr 2022, 6:44 am)N1cholas wrote With the X11 returning for the summer season, i wonder if it could be extended to serve sunderland interchange adding an extra stop for passengers without having to travel to washington to have a day out, it would only add 15 mins to the journey and would create a new link

Would probs add more than 15 minutes into the equation when you also factor in the fact the service calls at Washington Galleries (or at least it did last year). Be easier to just add a stop at Dalton Park where passengers could catch the 61/62/X6 from Sunderland (could also enable a connection from Durham on service 65), this would only add around 5 minutes into the schedule.

Alternatively passengers can get the 2/2A/8 between Sunderland to The Galleries or X6 to Peterlee but that's a less attractive option IMO.

Wonder if there would be a better case for flipping Sunderland for Washington. It's a much larger area and has much more connections including a Metro connection. Most people connecting at Washington could easily get to Sunderland / Gateshead or Peterlee depending where they are.

Driving wise it's only 5 or minutes difference rather than a 15 minute extension.

(05 Apr 2022, 1:46 pm)Storx wrote Wonder if there would be a better case for flipping Sunderland for Washington. It's a much larger area and has much more connections including a Metro connection. Most people connecting at Washington could easily get to Sunderland / Gateshead or Peterlee depending where they are.

Driving wise it's only 5 or minutes difference rather than a 15 minute extension.

Or people in Sunderland could get the train...

(05 Apr 2022, 1:46 pm)Storx wrote Wonder if there would be a better case for flipping Sunderland for Washington. It's a much larger area and has much more connections including a Metro connection. Most people connecting at Washington could easily get to Sunderland / Gateshead or Peterlee depending where they are.

Driving wise it's only 5 or minutes difference rather than a 15 minute extension.

For me I think it would be more beneficial to have two separate services which cover the local areas for example:

X11 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Chester-Le-Street - Durham - Darlington - Whitby - Scarborough

X11A - Washington Galleries - Sunderland - Peterlee - Billingham - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Scarborough

(05 Apr 2022, 3:22 pm)Malarkey wrote For me I think it would be more beneficial to have two separate services which cover the local areas for example:

X11 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Chester-Le-Street - Durham - Darlington - Whitby - Scarborough

X11A - Washington Galleries - Sunderland - Peterlee - Billingham - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Scarborough

Or for easiness call your  X11A the X12, saves the classic 'that would cause confusion' line from coming out

(05 Apr 2022, 3:22 pm)Malarkey wrote For me I think it would be more beneficial to have two separate services which cover the local areas for example:

X11 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Chester-Le-Street - Durham - Darlington - Whitby - Scarborough

X11A - Washington Galleries - Sunderland - Peterlee - Billingham - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Scarborough

Ngl I was thinking the same thing but not sure there's the demand though. Mind I'd change it around so it's

X11 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Sunderland - Peterlee - Billingham - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Scarborough
X11A - Washington - Chester Le Street - Durham - Sedgefield - Stockton - Whitby - Scarborough

The Newcastle route there from Newcastle would take hours via Darlington and I can't see them using it anyway as they could just do X66/X67 -> X93 on Arriva Day Tickets. The route the X12 takes omitting Coxhoe is by far the most sensible route imo.

(05 Apr 2022, 3:32 pm)V514DFT wrote Or for easiness call your  X11A the X12, saves the classic 'that would cause confusion' line from coming out

The X12 is worse as you'd have two X12's in Middlesbrough like.

(05 Apr 2022, 4:01 pm)Storx wrote Ngl I was thinking the same thing but not sure there's the demand though. Mind I'd change it around so it's

X11 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Sunderland - Peterlee - Billingham - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Scarborough
X11A - Washington - Chester Le Street - Durham - Sedgefield - Stockton - Whitby - Scarborough

The Newcastle route there from Newcastle would take hours via Darlington and I can't see them using it anyway as they could just do X66/X67 -> X93 on Arriva Day Tickets. The route the X12 takes omitting Coxhoe is by far the most sensible route imo.


The X12 is worse as you'd have two X12's in Middlesbrough like.

There was definitely demand from Washington last summer as on numerous occasions a second vehicle had to be provided to avoid leaving passengers behind, I do think this needs to be handled better this year if the X11 does return by having a vehicle on Standby at The Galleries rather than coming from Riverside dead an hour later.

I'd also potentially omit Gateshead given connections from the X10 at Peterlee/Stockton and Middlesbrough thus speeding up the Newcastle to Sunderland section to operate similarly to that of Megabus/NatEx Services.

(05 Apr 2022, 4:40 pm)Malarkey wrote There was definitely demand from Washington last summer as on numerous occasions a second vehicle had to be provided to avoid leaving passengers behind, I do think this needs to be handled better this year if the X11 does return by having a vehicle on Standby at The Galleries rather than coming from Riverside dead an hour later.

I'd also potentially omit Gateshead given connections from the X10 at Peterlee/Stockton and Middlesbrough thus speeding up the Newcastle to Sunderland section to operate similarly to that of Megabus/NatEx Services.

Why omit Gateshead? Bus woukd have to drive past interchange anyway. X11 is fine exactly the the way it is, don't know ow why people suggesting it to to Sunderland when they have direct train

(05 Apr 2022, 4:48 pm)JP6004 wrote Why omit Gateshead? Bus woukd have to drive past interchange anyway. X11 is fine exactly the the way it is, don't know ow why people suggesting it to to Sunderland when they have direct train

last time I checked so did Newcastle.

(05 Apr 2022, 4:48 pm)Unber43 wrote last time I checked so did Newcastle.

And takes a lot longer