(16 May 2022, 6:05 pm)Unber43 wrote The Connection 4 PVR would go down to 9 with 2 branded Spares

X30/X31 - Would be a PVR of 3 

X71/X72 - Would be a PVR of 4. 

however I think they would interwork with the X30/X31 making a PVR of around 8. If I am right (I am not sure) that would leave about 6 spare. 

Where are those 6 gonna go. They can't go on the X21, there isn't enough unless the X71 & X72 could some how work standlone, giving a extra PVR spare. For X21. 

But with the X45 (going every 30 mins bad move imo) that will only be a PVR of 4, maybe 5 with 15 mins layovers at each end. Which means 3 can be spared.

If those 3 can go onto the X1 you could see a potential Seaham extension, you could even put that through Doxford Park from Houghton via A19 to Dalton park to Seaham, or just the normal way with an extension to seaham every 1 hour. 

God knows how they're going to do the 1 PVR increase. It should only be 1 or two. 

20 Changes - They probs would just split the 20 current PVR, but I think the 20 Between Sunderland & Durham should be ever 10 mins. 

35/35A to Town End Farm would probably cut the PVR by 3. But whether the 35A will extend to Heworth on a night, many could argue why on earth there isn't a link between Sunderland & Follingsby. 

X56, could be a good thing, Sunderland - A690 - Doxford - Follingsby - Newcastle using the spare E400 MMC would probs take just over 1 hour, so a PVR of 5-6 would be needed. 

39 would probs just get Spare Pinks, or "Blonde" what a waste of money that was. ( i would be a fan of that to Houghton)

62 & 55 being withdrawn, while 55 was inevitable - many could argue to keep the 62 to every 30 minutes and have to serve tunstall and A690 keeping that link aswell as the links to Sunderland College for Students

Sunderland Bus Station, will need the 2/2a/39/39A to search it in both ways, they might aswell with the 33 seems as though the bus station has been decimated with these changes

Although something I noticed was that most of the services which are highlighted especially on sundays, evenings and mornings were nexus supported I remember someone putting up a list of services which were funded by nexus and if I remember right a lot of the services especially Gateshead ones were financially supported. 

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Thanks! Wait so they're removing the X46 hourly due to low demand to re-route the 47 to go to the same places but it just takes longer, if that isnt persuading people to get into a car I don't know what else GNE Can do.

I could see the X21 going back to a PVR of 8 with the small amount of time saving from turning it at West Auckland Club instead of The Eden garage and it feels overtimed in part, somehow off peak now timed to take the same length of time between Durham and Newcastle as the Arriva X12.

(16 May 2022, 7:18 pm)Jimmi wrote I could see the X21 going back to a PVR of 8 with the small amount of time saving from turning it at West Auckland Club instead of The Eden garage and it feels overtimed in part, somehow off peak now timed to take the same length of time between Durham and Newcastle as the Arriva X12.

I don't know what would cover the X21's, there are 7 PVR of G3's, + 6334. Then 6335 being a spare, I don't think there would be enough E400MMC.

But I also feel like X56 is a great idea with luxurious buses, and busy area's which GNE could really take over. If They don't do this will spare nice buses I feel like that will be a mistake

(16 May 2022, 7:40 pm)Storx wrote That X56 has been around numerous times in different disguises. The X36 being the latest and it never works.

There's not actually that many passengers who live in Sunderland and work in Newcastle and there's absolutely no flow in the opposite direction. I'd be very very surprised if the X24 survives the chop when the Stagecoach changes eventually come.

Yeah, but with my suggestion it goes through Doxford & Follingsby Via A690, X36 never did that.

(16 May 2022, 7:40 pm)Unber43 wrote Yeah, but with my suggestion it goes through Doxford & Follingsby Via A690, X36 never did that.

Deleted my post, thought it was the other X56 being suggested numerous times.

Btw there used to be an Arriva Doxford / Newcastle service and it carried fresh air and they'd argubly be the better operator as people could connect with it from other services to the North of Newcastle.

Side track convo, I do always find it weird how Arriva is a Sunderland business yet it doesn't serve it's own town and never has done bar the few Peterlee services popping in.

Enthusiasts always want express town to town buses because it’s these services that they would use when planning big day trips visiting lots of places via lots of buses. Real people want boring services from the suburbs/village to the main town

(16 May 2022, 7:49 pm)Wybus wrote Enthusiasts always want express town to town buses because it’s these services that they would use when planning big day trips visiting lots of places via lots of buses. Real people want boring services from the suburbs/village to the main town

Not really you can use the X10 from Dalton Park.

X56 would get passengers from Doxford Park to Follingby (amazon) quick connections into Newcastle and Sunderland to make a connection home. Instead of not being able to get to sunderland for over 90 mins.

(16 May 2022, 7:48 pm)Storx wrote Deleted my post, thought it was the other X56 being suggested numerous times.

Btw there used to be an Arriva Doxford / Newcastle service and it carried fresh air and they'd argubly be the better operator as people could connect with it from other services to the North of Newcastle.

Side track convo, I do always find it weird how Arriva is a Sunderland business yet it doesn't serve it's own town and never has done bar the few Peterlee services popping in.

I've always that, its odd, would of thought they would want services in the city it was founded.

(16 May 2022, 7:48 pm)Storx wrote Deleted my post, thought it was the other X56 being suggested numerous times.

Btw there used to be an Arriva Doxford / Newcastle service and it carried fresh air and they'd argubly be the better operator as people could connect with it from other services to the North of Newcastle.

Side track convo, I do always find it weird how Arriva is a Sunderland business yet it doesn't serve it's own town and never has done bar the few Peterlee services popping in.

But that was before amazon, and doubt it went to Sunderland. Don't forget it would pick up passengers on the A690.

I agree about it is weird for arriva's headquarters to be a Doxford

I feel like 5 & 26 just need to be entirely re-worked, with them interworking. But I don't know where change over's will take place.

If they are every 30 mins, they could interwork with the 24. 

South Shields ______ (brand name)

(16 May 2022, 8:09 pm)Unber43 wrote I feel like 5 & 26 just need to be entirely re-worked, with them interworking. But I don't know where change over's will take place.

If they are every 30 mins, they could interwork with the 24. 

South Shields ______ (brand name)

The 26 in particular. 
Forced changes by getting rid of the 88. Ran the H1 as a token gesture. Insisted the people of South Tyneside needed an extra service to Newcastle and left areas without a connection. 
All whilst arsing on with the 5 and 9 and leaving Nexus to pick up the Tyne Tunnel link. 

Then realised they didn't need another service to Newcastle and now just seem to be bumbling by.

(16 May 2022, 8:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote The 26 in particular. 
Forced changes by getting rid of the 88. Ran the H1 as a token gesture. Insisted the people of South Tyneside needed an extra service to Newcastle and left areas without a connection. 
All whilst arsing on with the 5 and 9 and leaving Nexus to pick up the Tyne Tunnel link. 

Then realised they didn't need another service to Newcastle and now just seem to be bumbling by.

You could run the 9 through the Tunnel leading into Business Parks & Cobalt for added connections. 

You could do 9/9A Every 30 mins Sunderland - North Shields, every 30 Mins North Shields to Heworth via Follingsby & Jarrow

or just introduce the 312 Blyth, North Shields, Follinginsby, Heworth - Haymarket.

(16 May 2022, 7:54 pm)Michael wrote I've always that, its odd, would of thought they would want services in the city it was founded.

Weird one isn't it.

(16 May 2022, 7:58 pm)Unber43 wrote But that was before amazon, and doubt it went to Sunderland. Don't forget it would pick up passengers on the A690.

I agree about it is weird for arriva's headquarters to be a Doxford

The thing is though Newcastle is the wrong place. Most people going to Follingsby will be no doubt closer to a Metro station than Newcastle and someone travelling say from North Shields will never use a bus as it's the wrong way.

There's also no demand for a quick bus to Sunderland from Newcastle (the Metro does that) and no reason for links to the A690 in both directions. Doxford is one of those places you'll never solve unless you tax car parking charges as it's not commerically viable to have bus links as everyone will come from different directions, the majority not from Newcastle and the parking is free. It's not unique; Cobalt, Quorum and Rainton are the same, not to mention they are the places which are affected by WFH.

Sunderland to Follingsby maybe has demand but the X24 which already exists would be the better route to reroute.

(16 May 2022, 8:25 pm)Storx wrote Weird one isn't it.


The thing is though Newcastle is the wrong place. Most people going to Follingsby will be no doubt closer to a Metro station than Newcastle and someone travelling say from North Shields will never use a bus as it's the wrong way.

There's also no demand for a quick bus to Sunderland from Newcastle (the Metro does that) and no reason for links to the A690 in both directions. Doxford is one of those places you'll never solve unless you tax car parking charges as it's not commerically viable to have bus links as everyone will come from different directions, the majority not from Newcastle and the parking is free. It's not unique; Cobalt, Quorum and Rainton are the same, not to mention they are the places which are affected by WFH.

Sunderland to Follingsby maybe has demand but the X24 which already exists would be the better route to reroute.

It might not work, but if they have spare nice buses of other routes why not give it a go.

Such has 312 suggestion that doesnt need to be brand new buses. just buses

Reading through these proposals I can’t help but think GNE’s twitter bio is their new slogan rather than their customer service opening hours. 

‘Here for you from 9am-5pm Monday to Friday ?’

(16 May 2022, 8:25 pm)Storx wrote Weird one isn't it.


The thing is though Newcastle is the wrong place. Most people going to Follingsby will be no doubt closer to a Metro station than Newcastle and someone travelling say from North Shields will never use a bus as it's the wrong way.

There's also no demand for a quick bus to Sunderland from Newcastle (the Metro does that) and no reason for links to the A690 in both directions. Doxford is one of those places you'll never solve unless you tax car parking charges as it's not commerically viable to have bus links as everyone will come from different directions, the majority not from Newcastle and the parking is free. It's not unique; Cobalt, Quorum and Rainton are the same, not to mention they are the places which are affected by WFH.

Sunderland to Follingsby maybe has demand but the X24 which already exists would be the better route to reroute.

If Follingsby Lane was usable for bigger vehicles then I think the X24 would a good candidate to go that way, probably at the expense of Gateshead as i doubt it would have enough time with the number of buses they use. But then that would open all of the Stagecoach Newcastle and Sunderland network within 1 change of getting to Amazon.

Going off of what was documented on the consultation form I amended a few of my suggestions that I put in the "Service Suggestions" and sent the document over to Go North East to have a look at which I hope they do, a few of there suggestions have been documented on this forum such as extending the 58 to Follingsby Park, the 50 serving Rickleton replacing the 84, the 20 being split into two separate routes, withdrawing the 55, i'm sure we've suggested extending the 39 into Houghton before on here.

Ohh how could I forget the proposed 84/85 Washington Circular to throw in their as well.

(16 May 2022, 7:58 pm)Unber43 wrote But that was before amazon, and doubt it went to Sunderland. Don't forget it would pick up passengers on the A690.

I agree about it is weird for arriva's headquarters to be a Doxford

Arriva’s history is Sunderland . Formerly Cowies, before rebranding to Arriva.

(16 May 2022, 8:49 pm)DeltaMan wrote If Follingsby Lane was usable for bigger vehicles then I think the X24 would a good candidate to go that way, probably at the expense of Gateshead as i doubt it would have enough time with the number of buses they use. But then that would open all of the Stagecoach Newcastle and Sunderland network within 1 change of getting to Amazon.

Aye totally agreed to be honest. Would actually be an useful link and it's quite unique that it would have a peak flow in both directions which is quite rare where most routes are only towards Newcastle usually.

Could also maybe run some of the X34 boards along there, in particular in the morning ones towards The Nook (first X24 is 9am currently) and add a few late late runs with the X34 until say 11pm, could be enough to make it feasible to give it a later service which would be popular imo.

I have had a go at working out the current and revised PVRs of the routes mentioned in the changes. I have based it on current interworking patterns with the only exceptions being the x30/31/71/72. Please feel free to let me know if I have missed any or worked anything out incorrectly and I will update the list.

(16 May 2022, 10:14 pm)User2613 wrote I have had a go at working out the current and revised PVRs of the routes mentioned in the changes. I have based it on current interworking patterns with the only exceptions being the x30/31/71/72. Please feel free to let me know if I have missed any or worked anything out incorrectly and I will update the list.

7 spare E400 MMC

4 Spare StreetDecks (probs for X1) 

That is a lot of moving around/repainting

(16 May 2022, 6:05 pm)Unber43 wrote The Connection 4 PVR would go down to 9 with 2 branded Spares

X30/X31 - Would be a PVR of 3 

X71/X72 - Would be a PVR of 4. 

however I think they would interwork with the X30/X31 making a PVR of around 8. If I am right (I am not sure) that would leave about 6 spare. 

Where are those 6 gonna go. They can't go on the X21, there isn't enough unless the X71 & X72 could some how work standlone, giving a extra PVR spare. For X21. 

But with the X45 (going every 30 mins bad move imo) that will only be a PVR of 4, maybe 5 with 15 mins layovers at each end. Which means 3 can be spared.

If those 3 can go onto the X1 you could see a potential Seaham extension, you could even put that through Doxford Park from Houghton via A19 to Dalton park to Seaham, or just the normal way with an extension to seaham every 1 hour. 

God knows how they're going to do the 1 PVR increase. It should only be 1 or two. 

Looking at the times I reckon the X45 and X71/72 could interwork with a PVR of 9 and the X30/X31 will interwork with a PVR of 3 like you say. I reckon that those services would all use the E400 MMC's freeing up the Streetdecks completely. 

The 1 extension would only need 1 bus so probably 5469. The 4 like you say frees up two Citaro's for spares. The 35 and 61 would both lose a Citaro each and the 78 would lose a Streetlite. The 67 would need 1 Versa, losing 3. And then obviously the 25/28 will save 10 Versa, the 55 4 Citaro's and several Solo's.

(16 May 2022, 10:14 pm)User2613 wrote I have had a go at working out the current and revised PVRs of the routes mentioned in the changes. I have based it on current interworking patterns with the only exceptions being the x30/31/71/72. Please feel free to let me know if I have missed any or worked anything out incorrectly and I will update the list.

I think you've got that more or less spot on, looking at it from that perspective a 43 cut in PVR is huge.

Couple of corrections though, I'm guessing the 6/12 won't interwork if the 12 is every 20 mins and the 6 is every 30 mins.

As well as this, the 28/28A/734 PVR should be 4 not 8, and the reduction in the 62/62A seems to be 2 not 4. (PVR of the 38A/62/62A/X6 combined is 4)

Of course, it's not likely to be that severe of a cut when DCC or Nexus intervene.

(16 May 2022, 10:22 pm)peter wrote Looking at the times I reckon the X45 and X71/72 could interwork with a PVR of 9 and the X30/X31 will interwork with a PVR of 3 like you say. I reckon that those services would all use the E400 MMC's freeing up the Streetdecks completely. 

The 1 extension would only need 1 bus so probably 5469. The 4 like you say frees up two Citaro's for spares. I think the 21 could potentially be 9 or 10 saving another 4/5 Streetdecks. The 35 and 61 would both lose a Citaro each and the 78 would lose a Streetlite. The 67 would need 1 Versa, losing 3. And then obviously the 25/28 will save 10 Versa, the 55 4 Citaro's and several Solo's.

78 would have the Durham one has a spare, as the current PVR is 9 with 8 branded. 

the 10 plate 55's would go onto 61 has they have to unpaint them anyway. 4 spares for the 4. 

There are 8 Streetdecks, realistically the X1 could be extended all over the place, Seaham. Or my X56 idea to use them. 

Yeah I think it would make more sense to keep E400 MMC at Consett. 

However how will the 20/70 Plate Streetdecks handle on X21 that is a PVR 8 afaik. However the X1 does need like 3x Extra buses.

So, thinking about this realistically, it's just as much a fishing exercise for more local authority funding as it is a public consultation.

With that in mind, which of the proposed route withdrawals do we think will actually go ahead?

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(16 May 2022, 10:36 pm)streetdeckfan wrote So, thinking about this realistically, it's just as much a fishing exercise for more local authority funding as it is a public consultation.

With that in mind, which of the proposed route withdrawals do we think will actually go ahead?

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

I think it'll be similar to the North Tyneside changes - every area has some service, albeit at a lower frequency.

(16 May 2022, 10:36 pm)streetdeckfan wrote So, thinking about this realistically, it's just as much a fishing exercise for more local authority funding as it is a public consultation.

With that in mind, which of the proposed route withdrawals do we think will actually go ahead?

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

Honestly non of them as far as full route withdrawals , I think the 25 will be integrated with the 29, still terminating at Newcastle. 

i think 47A &X46 will go - 78 to Castleside - 16B - 65/X10 I don’t think will go ahead especially the 2 hour service

With the V3 gone too, the only service going to Shotley Bridge Hospital will be Weardale's 773.

Or am I missing something here?

Ian

(16 May 2022, 10:49 pm)DH9 wrote With the V3 gone too, the only service going to Shotley Bridge Hospital will be Weardale's 773.

Or am I missing something here?

Ian

Would that not still be covered by the 47?

(16 May 2022, 10:29 pm)Unber43 wrote 78 would have the Durham one has a spare, as the current PVR is 9 with 8 branded. 

the 10 plate 55's would go onto 61 has they have to unpaint them anyway. 4 spares for the 4. 

There are 8 Streetdecks, realistically the X1 could be extended all over the place, Seaham. Or my X56 idea to use them. 

Yeah I think it would make more sense to keep E400 MMC at Consett. 

However how will the 20/70 Plate Streetdecks handle on X21 that is a PVR 8 afaik. However the X1 does need like 3x Extra buses.

Yeah, the 78 would just be a spare free'd up. I agree it would make sense to put the three 10 plates on the 61. 

With the Streetdecks like you say I think the stop gaps on the X1 and X21 would make the most sense

(16 May 2022, 10:36 pm)streetdeckfan wrote So, thinking about this realistically, it's just as much a fishing exercise for more local authority funding as it is a public consultation.

With that in mind, which of the proposed route withdrawals do we think will actually go ahead?

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

I think most of them will go ahead, as Nexus/Durham are very unlikely to replace them on a like for like basis. If Go North East, with its branding, website, app etc. can’t attract enough passengers then local authorities never will. 
Perhaps the 29 will remain largely unchanged route, and perhaps with evening and Sunday journeys added.

if it’s like the Newcastle/North Tyneside changes, Nexus will change/withdraw many of their existing secured services as well in order to fund the replacement services. The 23 seems a likely candidate to go, as it’s in Birtley where the 25, 28 & 82 will all need replacing. The 73 is already duplicated by the 8 for most of the route so must be another candidate for being withdrawn.