(19 Jun 2022, 10:31 am)Adrian wrote BSOG is calculated per km operated I believe, unless that has changed?

Interestingly though, the Bus Recovery Grant (BRG), which is due to end in October, has an eligibility requirement of running 90% or more of your mileage compared to pre-COVID levels. Taking into account September 2021's 'Getting buses fit for the future' programme, and then the upcoming axe-wielding in July, I wonder if GNE will still be eligible for the remaining 3 months of that?

(fixed your link btw!)

Yeah, I'm not sure what the deal is with BSOG during covid and if there's any changes.
But assuming there isn't, I think there's going to be a huge shortfall if operators are submitting accurate bus mileage data. I'm not sure any additional funds (such as BRG) will make up that shortfall.

(cheers for fixing the link!)

GNE have been open in the fact that the methodology behind BRG doesn't work for them financially. BRG is calculated in advance (opposite of CBSSG).

That said, BRG has a top limit and if GNE are better off at the bottom line by making the cost savings instead of relying on funding, that probably explains why they have decided to go this way.

Stagecoach and Arriva haven't played their hand yet, which suggest BRG funding does work for them and they are running as much as they can until Oct 2nd.

I fully expect more reductions from those two, to be notified somewhere towards the end of July.

(18 Jun 2022, 11:26 pm)Unber43 wrote Well, look at Arriva, Stagecoach and GCT (granted they've been quite okay recently) however they don't publish these lists meaning we don't know how many services are cancelled but for both it is probably  similar to GNE, so why should GNE be penalised for telling the public which services are cancelled when other companies are informing people 1 hour to no advanced notice.

The Arriva and Stagecoach cancellations are nowhere near as bad as GNE. This isn't just to do with 'lists'.

At no point have either of those cancelled 4 buses in a row on a 30 minute bus service like the 25 tomorrow which they expect tax payers to fund.

Either way makes no difference. It doesn't make something better because someone else is the same. It seems to be the new tactic lately, deflection, to make out GNE aren't half as bad as they really are the past few months, for pretty much everything.

(19 Jun 2022, 6:40 pm)Storx wrote The Arriva and Stagecoach cancellations are nowhere near as bad as GNE. This isn't just to do with 'lists'.

At no point have either of those cancelled 4 buses in a row on a 30 minute bus service like the 25 tomorrow which they expect tax payers to fund.

Either way makes no difference. It doesn't make something better because someone else is the same. It seems to be the new tactic lately, deflection, to make out GNE aren't half as bad as they really are the past few months, for pretty much everything.

Look at the 8 today from Sunderland, the 10:11 didn't run, 11:11 did, then there wasn't one till 14:11. They're every hour, no hourly service should be cancelled.

Im not saying GNE have the least cancellations, while there may be 4 in a row canceled which is bad, the way they go around it is good and how do you know they're not as bad? SC & arriva don't supply a list.

(19 Jun 2022, 6:44 pm)Unber43 wrote Look at the 8 today from Sunderland, the 10:11 didn't run, 11:11 did, then there wasn't one till 14:11. They're every hour, no hourly service should be cancelled.

Im not saying GNE have the least cancellations, while there may be 4 in a row canceled which is bad, the way they go around it is good and how do you know they're not as bad? SC & arriva don't supply a list.

Why does it always have to be comparative to not being as bad (or worse) than X? For a Sunday service, the provision on some routes today has been nothing short of a shambles. 

Like I wrote yesterday, this has been going on now for 8+ months and it's continuing to cause the public a massive inconvenience. Whilst I think at the start, there'll have been a degree of sympathy for COVID related absence, the situation has gone on that long that sympathy has turned into frustration, with seemingly no end in sight.

We know that other bus operators, railways and airlines are impacted, but what are they doing about it? What are they doing to not only attract people to come and work for them, but the retain the staff that they're recruiting? 

We can talk about lists vs no lists, but the reality is the same and the customers still suffer. The bigger worry now is that this is very much in danger of becoming the norm, and that doesn't stand in good steed for the future of public transport.

(19 Jun 2022, 7:08 pm)Adrian wrote Why does it always have to be comparative to not being as bad (or worse) than X? For a Sunday service, the provision on some routes today has been nothing short of a shambles. 

Like I wrote yesterday, this has been going on now for 8+ months and it's continuing to cause the public a massive inconvenience. Whilst I think at the start, there'll have been a degree of sympathy for COVID related absence, the situation has gone on that long that sympathy has turned into frustration, with seemingly no end in sight.

We know that other bus operators, railways and airlines are impacted, but what are they doing about it? What are they doing to not only attract people to come and work for them, but the retain the staff that they're recruiting? 

We can talk about lists vs no lists, but the reality is the same and the customers still suffer. The bigger worry now is that this is very much in danger of becoming the norm, and that doesn't stand in good steed for the future of public transport.

I agree, however from CLS, the list hasn't been accurate at all, its okay to miss a few by accident but for 6 out of 14 21's not being in service is a joke especially when people who have tried to plan around services, only to find out that service is also cancelled. 

Same with me with COVID I had sympathy, but I thought atleast GNE were trying to combat this, when I saw 4 8's in 5 hours (wheI n they are every hour) where cancelled from Park Lane and I mean...there was people waiting for 3 hours for an 8. It is 100% a staffing issue, so many are leaving, not enough joining, however why would they..the pay is quite bad no matter how much GNE can say earn upto 36K with overtime how much overtime, will the overtime be there.

I wonder if GNE has anything with the JobCentre, for people who own cars who might want to become bus drivers.

(19 Jun 2022, 6:44 pm)Unber43 wrote Look at the 8 today from Sunderland, the 10:11 didn't run, 11:11 did, then there wasn't one till 14:11. They're every hour, no hourly service should be cancelled.

Im not saying GNE have the least cancellations, while there may be 4 in a row canceled which is bad, the way they go around it is good and how do you know they're not as bad? SC & arriva don't supply a list.

Presume you mean GNE 8, not SNE which appears to have had no missed journeys https://bustimes.org/vehicles/41490

While not 100% reliable, bustimes means you don't need the others to publish list to know other operators "aren't as bad" as GNE - a quick scan of gaps on there gives you a pretty clear picture.

Based on the current cancellations list, I can't see many passengers planning to travel on the 47/47A tomorrow night
Red Kite Ranger 47 | 47A
From Consett:  18.55, 19:23, 20.05, 20.30 (4 consecutive journeys)

Go North East 34: 

• From Waldridge Park: 09:53, 10:53, 11:53, 12:53, 13:53, 14:53, 15:35, 16:42, 18:03, 18:57, 19:57. 
  
• From Urpeth Grange: 09:27, 10:27 11:27, 12:27, 13:27, 14:27, 15:07, 15:27, 16:12, 17:37, 18:35, 19:28, 20:28. 
  
• From Chester-le-Street: 09:10, 10:48, 11:45, 14:53, 17:23. 
  

That is just horrendous

---

The last 309 from Blyth & Last 310 from Newcastle are also cancelled

GNE are off to a great start this morning. No 25 towards newcastle at 6:43, No 21 at 6:47 or 6:53 towards newcastle. None of which are on the list of cancellations. Is there even a point in this list anymore if half of the cancellations are going to be left off.

Park Lane has quite a few buses parked up. Including 2 drifters when a solo has recently left on the 60... Great planning!

Actually make that 3 drifters parked up. And another solo left.

(24 Jun 2022, 9:50 am)idiot wrote Park Lane has quite a few buses parked up. Including 2 drifters when a solo has recently left on the 60... Great planning!

Speaking of Drifters, why with 1 spare bus, there is always atleast one solo on the drifters, not to mention it does the afternoon Seaham High School, school run. 

There is TWO solo's on today, there are two drifters together one running 12 mins late, there was 3 replacement buses on the other day, 5373 has been having issues since the crash, it broke down yesterday aswell. There was one on the 877, so that is 7/7 which are running. 1 broke down, thats the PVR.

Why can't they get it right it has been an issue since September, I was on the 5 yesterday between Boldon and Jarrow to connect with the 27 and that was a Drifter, it had 4 people on, compared to the Solo which was on the 60 at the time which had 8 seats left.

(24 Jun 2022, 10:29 am)Unber43 wrote Speaking of Drifters, why with 1 spare bus, there is always atleast one solo on the drifters, not to mention it does the afternoon Seaham High School, school run. 

There is TWO solo's on today, there are two drifters together one running 12 mins late, there was 3 replacement buses on the other day, 5373 has been having issues since the crash, it broke down yesterday aswell. There was one on the 877, so that is 7/7 which are running. 1 broke down, thats the PVR.

Why can't they get it right it has been an issue since September, I was on the 5 yesterday between Boldon and Jarrow to connect with the 27 and that was a Drifter, it had 4 people on, compared to the Solo which was on the 60 at the time which had 8 seats left.

Perhaps they have drifted off onto a different route. That's the trouble with drifters, rarely do they stay in one place for a prolonged period of time.

When I've been out and about today (and to be honest, the whole of this week), its more noticeable than ever just how sick of these disruptions the public are getting.

I've seen multiple instances of drivers getting it in the neck from irate customers, both on the bus and whilst they're waiting to take a bus on (e.g. at Chester front street). Whilst I think its bang out of order the way some customers talk to drivers, I think its sadly becoming inevitable due to the amount of disruption.

There's also more and more people complaining about it in conversation, e.g. when I'm on board or waiting for a bus. A 56 I used earlier, apparently the one prior didnt turn up, the one after was cancelled, and the one we boarded was being cut short at Gateshead. Is this the active regulation that Martijn Gilbert referenced on twitter?

I wonder just how much these operators, and I know its not just GNE, are shooting themselves in the foot right now. As I've said before, why would anyone switch to bus, unless you like ending up pissed off?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(25 Jun 2022, 4:03 pm)Adrian wrote When I've been out and about today (and to be honest, the whole of this week), its more noticeable than ever just how sick of these disruptions the public are getting.

I've seen multiple instances of drivers getting it in the neck from irate customers, both on the bus and whilst they're waiting to take a bus on (e.g. at Chester front street). Whilst I think its bang out of order the way some customers talk to drivers, I think its sadly becoming inevitable due to the amount of disruption.

There's also more and more people complaining about it in conversation, e.g. when I'm on board or waiting for a bus. A 56 I used earlier, apparently the one prior didnt turn up, the one after was cancelled, and the one we boarded was being cut short at Gateshead. Is this the active regulation that Martijn Gilbert referenced on twitter?

I wonder just how much these operators, and I know its not just GNE, are shooting themselves in the foot right now. As I've said before, why would anyone switch to bus, unless you like ending up pissed off?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

I was at Consett the other Sunday, and people were just fuming about the 78, it was cancelled two hours in a row, I was getting off a X45 when I heard it.

Im very surprised anyone got a answer from the GNE drivers TBH, I was out in durham with the crocodile with 2 GNE day tickets. We waited 2.5 hours for a 21 back to low fell. During this wait i asked several drivers if they could help find out what was happening by radioing control............ the replies ranged from its not working, they wont reply cause its bus to no reply and the doors getting shut on my nose!! Alternatively at Haymarket ive spoke to there drivers about no bus turning up and athey have always been helpfull and apologetic.

(25 Jun 2022, 4:03 pm)Adrian wrote When I've been out and about today (and to be honest, the whole of this week), its more noticeable than ever just how sick of these disruptions the public are getting.

I've seen multiple instances of drivers getting it in the neck from irate customers, both on the bus and whilst they're waiting to take a bus on (e.g. at Chester front street). Whilst I think its bang out of order the way some customers talk to drivers, I think its sadly becoming inevitable due to the amount of disruption.

There's also more and more people complaining about it in conversation, e.g. when I'm on board or waiting for a bus. A 56 I used earlier, apparently the one prior didnt turn up, the one after was cancelled, and the one we boarded was being cut short at Gateshead. Is this the active regulation that Martijn Gilbert referenced on twitter?

I wonder just how much these operators, and I know its not just GNE, are shooting themselves in the foot right now. As I've said before, why would anyone switch to bus, unless you like ending up pissed off?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

I was on the 56 earlier and it was filled to the brim for most of the journey. Definitely doesn't help that the Metros are off (even though the 56 doesn't serve any of the Metro stations between Stadium of Light and Gateshead). Definitely not helpful for people who live in Concord, etc, who want to travel into Newcastle.

If the old Fast Cats X36 was still running, that'd probably end up being packed as well, since if I remember correctly it was faster than the 56 and would've also served as a viable alternative for people travelling between Heworth, etc. and Sunderland.

(25 Jun 2022, 4:03 pm)Adrian wrote When I've been out and about today (and to be honest, the whole of this week), its more noticeable than ever just how sick of these disruptions the public are getting.

I've seen multiple instances of drivers getting it in the neck from irate customers, both on the bus and whilst they're waiting to take a bus on (e.g. at Chester front street). Whilst I think its bang out of order the way some customers talk to drivers, I think its sadly becoming inevitable due to the amount of disruption.

There's also more and more people complaining about it in conversation, e.g. when I'm on board or waiting for a bus. A 56 I used earlier, apparently the one prior didnt turn up, the one after was cancelled, and the one we boarded was being cut short at Gateshead. Is this the active regulation that Martijn Gilbert referenced on twitter?

I wonder just how much these operators, and I know its not just GNE, are shooting themselves in the foot right now. As I've said before, why would anyone switch to bus, unless you like ending up pissed off?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

There seems to have been at least 5 or 6 buses parked at Chester-Le-Street almost all day today (different buses as time has gone by, South Burns or down the side of GW Horners) with large gaps appearing in the 21 (not helped by missing X21s, where the last 4 departures from Newcastle are cancelled). 
I Didn’t see much “active regulation” taking place, and no “short notice” cancellations list for the 21, although Twitter followers were told at 1146 that  “Due to operational issues you wait longer than usual for your vehicle heading into Newcastle on service 21, we apologise for any inconvenience”.

It’s unfortunate that GNE continues to compete with Arriva between Durham and Brandon & Bishop and West Auckland whilst the service where passengers don’t have a choice is so poor.

(25 Jun 2022, 4:48 pm)busmanT wrote There seems to have been at least 5 or 6 buses parked at Chester-Le-Street almost all day today (different buses as time has gone by, South Burns or down the side of GW Horners) with large gaps appearing in the 21 (not helped by missing X21s, where the last 4 departures from Newcastle are cancelled). 
I Didn’t see much “active regulation” taking place, and no “short notice” cancellations list for the 21, although Twitter followers were told at 1146 that  “Due to operational issues you wait longer than usual for your vehicle heading into Newcastle on service 21, we apologise for any inconvenience”.

It’s unfortunate that GNE continues to compete with Arriva between Durham and Brandon & Bishop and West Auckland whilst the service where passengers don’t have a choice is so poor.

At Deptford it has been bad, two 56's cancelled, three 60's in a row (TWICE) leaving passengers with a 1 hour wait. 

Not to mention 4 of these weren't even on the list, yet GNE is doing a 901. 

Deptford, I saw about 7-8 vehicles parked up.

(25 Jun 2022, 4:03 pm)Adrian wrote When I've been out and about today (and to be honest, the whole of this week), its more noticeable than ever just how sick of these disruptions the public are getting.

I've seen multiple instances of drivers getting it in the neck from irate customers, both on the bus and whilst they're waiting to take a bus on (e.g. at Chester front street). Whilst I think its bang out of order the way some customers talk to drivers, I think its sadly becoming inevitable due to the amount of disruption.

There's also more and more people complaining about it in conversation, e.g. when I'm on board or waiting for a bus. A 56 I used earlier, apparently the one prior didnt turn up, the one after was cancelled, and the one we boarded was being cut short at Gateshead. Is this the active regulation that Martijn Gilbert referenced on twitter?

I wonder just how much these operators, and I know its not just GNE, are shooting themselves in the foot right now. As I've said before, why would anyone switch to bus, unless you like ending up pissed off? 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Punters are essentially being given the choice between a bus that may or may not get them where they need to be OR paying through the nose at the fuel pump.

This is the ideal time to win passengers back and convince others, that bus (for all its faults), is the way to go.
There isn't going to be a better opportunity to put right all the damage caused by Covid/the government/lack of priority measures/insert other excuse here.

The cancellations for the 25/X21/28/28A are quite bad for Sunday

(25 Jun 2022, 4:03 pm)Adrian wrote When I've been out and about today (and to be honest, the whole of this week), its more noticeable than ever just how sick of these disruptions the public are getting.

I've seen multiple instances of drivers getting it in the neck from irate customers, both on the bus and whilst they're waiting to take a bus on (e.g. at Chester front street). Whilst I think its bang out of order the way some customers talk to drivers, I think its sadly becoming inevitable due to the amount of disruption.

There's also more and more people complaining about it in conversation, e.g. when I'm on board or waiting for a bus. A 56 I used earlier, apparently the one prior didnt turn up, the one after was cancelled, and the one we boarded was being cut short at Gateshead. Is this the active regulation that Martijn Gilbert referenced on twitter?

I wonder just how much these operators, and I know its not just GNE, are shooting themselves in the foot right now. As I've said before, why would anyone switch to bus, unless you like ending up pissed off?

It's a terrible situation, it's little wonder there's shortages, I wouldn't want to be paid peanuts to have to have complaints and gripes from passengers and I cannot say I blame the passengers either with how much of a joke some of the services have been of late, after my debacle with the 25 not running and instead being made to get an 82 and two 21's to reach my destination of Eldon Square, well near it! can imagine how f'd off I was by the time we made it to our destination, literally as we pulled into Gateshead Interchange on the 21 and the NSA played "this bus will terminate at the next stop" I just went "you are taking the piss?!" Didn't get much happier when we were made to get off at a stop that wasn't Eldon Square so the bus could f**k off, sorry, "active regulation" which is what they want us to say.

One thing I hate with GNE lately is how they claim they don't have the resources to do their own service work yet they sharp managed to pull out the resources out to cover an emergency rail replacement from Newcastle to Edinburgh the other evening, can only see things getting worse for that especially on upcoming Saturdays with Metro Replacements and Kynryn to provide resources for.

One thing I've gotta say is, it doesn't matter what the excuse is for disruptions, just one bad experience is enough to lose passengers, I've had months of cancellations from Arriva and now GNE services which I also tend to use are suffering from much the same fate (argubly worse from the latter now but was certainly the case from Arriva more in previous months)

One thing I will give Arriva and Stagecoach is they've at least reduced some frequencies to attempt to deal with the resource issues, granted there's still problems there whereas GNE seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la la la la la la" and act like everything's fine.

(25 Jun 2022, 8:39 pm)Jimmi wrote It's a terrible situation, it's little wonder there's shortages, I wouldn't want to be paid peanuts to have to have complaints and gripes from passengers and I cannot say I blame the passengers either with how much of a joke some of the services have been of late, after my debacle with the 25 not running and instead being made to get an 82 and two 21's to reach my destination of Eldon Square, well near it! can imagine how f'd off I was by the time we made it to our destination, literally as we pulled into Gateshead Interchange on the 21 and the NSA played "this bus will terminate at the next stop" I just went "you are taking the piss?!" Didn't get much happier when we were made to get off at a stop that wasn't Eldon Square so the bus could f**k off, sorry, "active regulation" which is what they want us to say.

One thing I hate with GNE lately is how they claim they don't have the resources to do their own service work yet they sharp managed to pull out the resources out to cover an emergency rail replacement from Newcastle to Edinburgh the other evening, can only see things getting worse for that especially on upcoming Saturdays with Metro Replacements and Kynryn to provide resources for. 

One thing I've gotta say is, it doesn't matter what the excuse is for disruptions, just one bad experience is enough to lose passengers, I've had months of cancellations from Arriva and now GNE services which I also tend to use are suffering from much the same fate (argubly worse from the latter now but was certainly the case from Arriva more in previous months)

One thing I will give Arriva and Stagecoach is they've at least reduced some frequencies to attempt to deal with the resource issues, granted there's still problems there whereas GNE seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la la la la la la" and act like everything's fine.

Quick financial wins over long term passenger sustainability imo.
There's absolutely no way they're demonstrating they have the ability to do both the commercial money makers and every day run of the mill stuff.

Wonder if GNE will get any help Aline/Stanley Travel/L&G to cover their services.

(25 Jun 2022, 8:39 pm)Jimmi wrote One thing I hate with GNE lately is how they claim they don't have the resources to do their own service work yet they sharp managed to pull out the resources out to cover an emergency rail replacement from Newcastle to Edinburgh the other evening, can only see things getting worse for that especially on upcoming Saturdays with Metro Replacements and Kynryn to provide resources for.

You’re making the assumption the two drivers who went up to Edinburgh would have been willing or would have been equipped to undertake local service work.

What if the two drivers were office-based and didn’t have their driver bags (as they weren’t expecting to give up their evenings to stay at work following their day in the office)? They couldn’t have done local service work but were willing to stop back for 5-6 hours to do something that was as simple as driving a bus with no cash fares to deal with that they weren’t equipped to deal with?


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Are these disruptions caused solely by driver shortages? Or is it a lack of working buses?

Across the three main operators I would say probably a combination of the two, but mainly the lack of drivers.

This has been a problem for some time now, more than enough time to to solve it if it was an attractive job to go into as recruitment and retention wouldn’t be a problem.

The operators need to return to basics. And if it means working together to provide services that get people from a to b when they want to travel then that is what they should do.

well last night the fun police was out with her mates from work in the afternoon. She went for the 28a at 18.22 but thinks she missed it. then she went for the 19.35 28b and this was cancelled. NEXTN ONE AT 2105. ALOMOST 3 hours between buses!!!. Luckily ( or unluckily ) i finished work at 745 so went to get her from Gateshead. When she got in the car she said there were half a dozen customers waiting for the bus and not one of them knew it was cancelled. SHOCKING!

(26 Jun 2022, 1:46 am)Bazza wrote Are these disruptions caused solely by driver shortages? Or is it a lack of working buses?

Across the three main operators I would say probably a combination of the two, but mainly the lack of drivers. 

This has been a problem for some time now, more than enough time to to solve it if it was an attractive job to go into as recruitment and retention wouldn’t be a problem.

The operators need to return to basics.  And if it means working together to provide services that get people from a to b when they want to travel then that is what they should do.

Lack of drivers, there's no other way of really putting it, other than Arriva Redcar, which had bus shortages (there's no driver shortages down there as far as I'm aware).

GNE have ample school buses doing nothing on a weekend they could use.

(25 Jun 2022, 7:31 pm)Unber43 wrote The cancellations for the 25/X21/28/28A are quite bad for Sunday

Even more so confusing when the 28A does not run on a Sunday 
Granted cancellations are listed for 28B but the phantom cancelled journeys on 28A make it appear to be increased cancellations

Resulting in a bus at 1710 from Newcastle to Kibblesworth then nothing for just shy of 4 hours until 2105.

(Mind this could be a tester for end of July when there is no Sunday service, so a practice run really)