(08 Jul 2022, 11:51 am)Ambassador wrote At least you'll have the inexplicably pointless 28B though!

I'm amazed the 28B has survived as long as it has, to be honest. There's hardly ever many on when I've seen it.  It doesn't help that going southbound at Gateshead Interchange, it goes along Low Fell but uses a stand at the other side of the station compared to all the other Low Fell services.

(08 Jul 2022, 5:46 pm)big mac wrote I'm amazed the 28B has survived as long as it has, to be honest. There's hardly ever many on when I've seen it.  It doesn't help that going southbound at Gateshead Interchange, it goes along Low Fell but uses a stand at the other side of the station compared to all the other Low Fell services.

you are absolutely right but you fail to mention on the way to Newcastle it nearly always seems to follow the 25 and the 21 on an evening and a 21 on the way back to chester.  I've seen on numerous time people waiting at gateshead for the 21 when the 28b has managed to leave there before the 21 arrived and they look bemused that's its gone past... maybe a ploy for the 21 to make money and the 28b well...

I've just worked this out..........

New PVR's
- X30/X31/X45 - PVR 8
- X71/X72 - PVR 5

Now yes there'd need to be remote reliefs at Stanley for the X30/X31 and the X45 & 47 wouldn't be a 'perfect' 15 minute frequency although still at least a 10/20 headway, but if GNE had've went with the following interworking patterns, the combined PVR for the X30/X31/X45/X71/X72 would've been reduced by a further 1x to 12x vehicles.

- X30/X31 - 3x
- X45/X71/X72 - 9x

(08 Jul 2022, 6:53 pm)L469 YVK wrote I've just worked this out..........

New PVR's
- X30/X31/X45 - PVR 8
- X71/X72 - PVR 5

Now yes there'd need to be remote reliefs at Stanley for the X30/X31 and the X45 & 47 wouldn't be a 'perfect' 15 minute frequency although still at least a 10/20 headway, but if GNE had've went with the following interworking patterns, the combined PVR for the X30/X31/X45/X71/X72 would've been reduced by a further 1x to 12x vehicles.

- X30/X31 - 3x
- X45/X71/X72 - 9x

With your second option they'd probably have to re-extend the X30 to Consett which would use a bus anyway. Don't really think there's anything wrong with the new setup apart from the uneven headway on the X71/2.

(08 Jul 2022, 6:53 pm)L469 YVK wrote I've just worked this out..........

New PVR's
- X30/X31/X45 - PVR 8
- X71/X72 - PVR 5

Now yes there'd need to be remote reliefs at Stanley for the X30/X31 and the X45 & 47 wouldn't be a 'perfect' 15 minute frequency although still at least a 10/20 headway, but if GNE had've went with the following interworking patterns, the combined PVR for the X30/X31/X45/X71/X72 would've been reduced by a further 1x to 12x vehicles.

- X30/X31 - 3x
- X45/X71/X72 - 9x

And as such, by having remote reliefs at Stanley (adding in c.40 mins of paid time on each relief plus the cost of fuel in a Volvo B7 doing 5mpg), you’ve cost the business more than they’d pay to run one extra bus on this cycle.

Even though Andreos has made his views on bus company commercial teams pretty clear, I assume this is the type of thing they keep in mind when making changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please can someone put him out of his misery and tell him, what's happening at Consett depot for interworkings and that.............

Looks like the 28/29 will interwork from Eldon Square with a PVR 5.

(08 Jul 2022, 6:12 pm)Rob44 wrote you are absolutely right but you fail to mention on the way to Newcastle it nearly always seems to follow the 25 and the 21 on an evening and a 21 on the way back to chester.  I've seen on numerous time people waiting at gateshead for the 21 when the 28b has managed to leave there before the 21 arrived and they look bemused that's its gone past... maybe a ploy for the 21 to make money and the 28b well...

There's also this strange obsession with the 21 that people seem to have that I've seen on a few occasions, where along Durham Road towards Newcastle, people let the 25 or 28B go past and then board the 21 behind, even though the 25 and 28B are going to exactly the same place.  I've never understood that.

(08 Jul 2022, 7:00 pm)Michael wrote Please can someone put him out of his misery and tell him, what's happening at Consett depot for interworkings and that.............

Oh no it will be back to the Coast Road posts then

(08 Jul 2022, 7:11 pm)big mac wrote There's also this strange obsession with the 21 that people seem to have that I've seen on a few occasions, where along Durham Road towards Newcastle, people let the 25 or 28B go past and then board the 21 behind, even though the 25 and 28B are going to exactly the same place.  I've never understood that.

Its same for Sunderland at Southwick with the Stagecoach services - they have the 3/4/12/13 and the 16 - yet let them all go past to get for example the 16 and still get off in the town.

(08 Jul 2022, 7:00 pm)Michael wrote Please can someone put him out of his misery and tell him, what's happening at Consett depot for interworkings and that.............

We know the interworking patterns. It's more the reasoning behind them.

(08 Jul 2022, 7:43 pm)L469 YVK wrote We know the interworking patterns. It's more the reasoning behind them.

Cost. That's it. Cheapest pattern wins

(08 Jul 2022, 7:11 pm)big mac wrote There's also this strange obsession with the 21 that people seem to have that I've seen on a few occasions, where along Durham Road towards Newcastle, people let the 25 or 28B go past and then board the 21 behind, even though the 25 and 28B are going to exactly the same place.  I've never understood that.

 This is 100% true..... especially when the 28b used to leave from Eldon squared. Maybe they thought the "28" part of it meant it went up old drurham road like the 28 did, but that doesn't explain why people let it go heading toward newcastle.

(08 Jul 2022, 8:08 pm)Rob44 wrote  This is 100% true..... especially when the 28b used to leave from Eldon squared. Maybe they thought the "28" part of it meant it went up old drurham road like the 28 did, but that doesn't explain why people let it go heading toward newcastle.

Could the way NEXUS display the routes at bus stops be causing part of the issue?

Why isn't the 28, 56, 57 shown as a combined timetable along Old Durham Road to Gateshead and Newcastle? Same with the 21 and 25 in Low Fell. 

If I see a big wall of numbers for the 21, I ain't going to bother looking at the 25!

I look at other areas where operators have clearly taken time to show combined common section information and wonder why NEXUS can't or won't do that. 

Garbage in, garbage out

(08 Jul 2022, 8:23 pm)DeltaMan wrote Could the way NEXUS display the routes at bus stops be causing part of the issue?

Why isn't the 28, 56, 57 shown as a combined timetable along Old Durham Road to Gateshead and Newcastle? Same with the 21 and 25 in Low Fell. 

If I see a big wall of numbers for the 21, I ain't going to bother looking at the 25!

I look at other areas where operators have clearly taken time to show combined common section information and wonder why NEXUS can't or won't do that. 

Garbage in, garbage out

Too much cost, the Nexus timetables are all automated. They've got better things to do than designing custom timetables. At least they've actually got timetables unlike the rest of the North East pretty much; now that's a real problem.

(08 Jul 2022, 8:28 pm)Storx wrote Too much cost, the Nexus timetables are all automated. They've got better things to do than designing custom timetables. At least they've actually got timetables unlike the rest of the North East pretty much; now that's a real problem.

I don't agree. If one of thier jobs is to promote public transport, then they could at least take time to set up the displays correctly to make it easier for potential customers to read.

Some of them are truly abysmal. For example, until the March changes, they insisted on showing the Newcastle 32/32A on FOUR separate panels in the same direction, purely because there was a different operator in the evenings and Sundays and on each route. That is just daft. Operators should really be pressurising for better roadside information in my opinion

(08 Jul 2022, 8:23 pm)DeltaMan wrote Could the way NEXUS display the routes at bus stops be causing part of the issue?

Why isn't the 28, 56, 57 shown as a combined timetable along Old Durham Road to Gateshead and Newcastle? Same with the 21 and 25 in Low Fell. 

If I see a big wall of numbers for the 21, I ain't going to bother looking at the 25!

I look at other areas where operators have clearly taken time to show combined common section information and wonder why NEXUS can't or won't do that. 

Garbage in, garbage out

Isn't it down to the operator to promote common sections of route?

Maybe the constant promo and allocation of new vehicles to the likes of the 21 is part of the problem with with the constant change with the other services along there.
Ditto on Old Durham Road with the 56 and the seemingly more stagnant 57 and 58.

(08 Jul 2022, 8:59 pm)Andreos1 wrote Isn't it down to the operator to promote common sections of route?

Maybe the constant promo and allocation of new vehicles to the likes of the 21 is part of the problem with with the constant change with the other services along there.
Ditto on Old Durham Road with the 56 and the seemingly more stagnant 57 and 58.

As far as I'm aware, NEXUS don't allow operators to make thier own roadsides

(08 Jul 2022, 8:56 pm)DeltaMan wrote I don't agree. If one of thier jobs is to promote public transport, then they could at least take time to set up the displays correctly to make it easier for potential customers to read.

Some of them are truly abysmal. For example, until the March changes, they insisted on showing the Newcastle 32/32A on FOUR separate panels in the same direction, purely because there was a different operator in the evenings and Sundays and on each route. That is just daft. Operators should really be pressurising for better roadside information in my opinion

I know what your saying and I don't disagree but it would cost an absolute fortune. All the timetables are just automated from the data API's it's why they're all over the place with your 32/32A example. You'd need someone to manually change them all otherwise and I wouldn't want to know how many bus stops there are in Tyne and Wear and Northumberland (they do those aswell now) - it would take hours and that's being light.

Personally I'd love to see more real time information screens at bus stops. We're really behind compared to pretty much every other city which give real time information (also something else that doesn't exist). Google and apps can do it, there's no real reason why the bus stop displays in particular in bus stations couldn't do it rather than saying a bus is due which has been cancelled etc. Places like Durham Road they'd be ideal tbh since no-one really needs to or wants to know what bus is coming in 7 hours time.

Some combined timetables are nigh on impossible to decipher. If they can't be done well, they're best not bothered with.

(08 Jul 2022, 9:07 pm)DeltaMan wrote As far as I'm aware, NEXUS don't allow operators to make thier own roadsides

They don't. But they do allow them to design the routes, allocate the vehicles, sort out the frequencies, paint & titivate the vehicles... 

Which will all have a major impact on popularity, profitability and margins. Much more than a timetable layout that I'd argue not many people read on those routes/corridors anyway

(08 Jul 2022, 9:14 pm)Storx wrote I know what your saying and I don't disagree but it would cost an absolute fortune. All the timetables are just automated from the data API's it's why they're all over the place with your 32/32A example. You'd need someone to manually change them all otherwise and I wouldn't want to know how many bus stops there are in Tyne and Wear and Northumberland (they do those aswell now) - it would take hours and that's being light.

Personally I'd love to see more real time information screens at bus stops. We're really behind compared to pretty much every other city which give real time information (also something else that doesn't exist). Google and apps can do it, there's no real reason why the bus stop displays in particular in bus stations couldn't do it rather than saying a bus is due which has been cancelled etc.

Yes, I agree with real time. How on earth Tyne and Wear does not have a basic functioning real time system, which would also help demystify the less frequent services, is beyond me.

If I can stand at Kyle of Lochalsh Bus Stance to see if the three times a day service over the Skye is on time. Why can't I see if the 10 is on time at Crawcrook?

---

(08 Jul 2022, 9:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote They don't. But they do allow them to design the routes, allocate the vehicles, sort out the frequencies, paint & titivate the vehicles... 

Which will all have a major impact on popularity, profitability and margins. Much more than a timetable layout that I'd argue not many people read on those routes/corridors anyway

Why do you think people let the less frequent services go by then? What possible reason is there for NEXUS to show the 21 and 25 separately on Durham Road in to Newcastle?

It's pure laziness

(08 Jul 2022, 9:20 pm)DeltaMan wrote Yes, I agree with real time. How on earth Tyne and Wear does not have a basic functioning real time system, which would also help demystify the less frequent services, is beyond me.

If I can stand at Kyle of Lochalsh Bus Stance to see if the three times a day service over the Skye is on time. Why can't I see if the 10 is on time at Crawcrook?

---

Why do you think people let the less frequent services go by then? What possible reason is there for NEXUS to show the 21 and 25 separately on Durham Road in to Newcastle?

It's pure laziness

Laziness?!
People on a corridor that has a frequent service rock up and are conditioned to get the newer, more frequent colourful bus vs the older, smaller less frequent one. 
They rock up and don't look at the timetable.

It's marketing that works for the 21 and 56 but has a negative knock on effect to owt else that is unfortunate to run a minute or two in front of it. Just look at the withdrawal list and funded services that's fallen out of it.

(08 Jul 2022, 9:20 pm)DeltaMan wrote Yes, I agree with real time. How on earth Tyne and Wear does not have a basic functioning real time system, which would also help demystify the less frequent services, is beyond me.

If I can stand at Kyle of Lochalsh Bus Stance to see if the three times a day service over the Skye is on time. Why can't I see if the 10 is on time at Crawcrook?

---

Why do you think people let the less frequent services go by then? What possible reason is there for NEXUS to show the 21 and 25 separately on Durham Road in to Newcastle?

It's pure laziness

Crazy ain't it - I like these personally, https://newcastletransport.info/wp-conte...3ed115.jpg

Simple and easy to read and tell you how busy the buses are, do we need to know anything more at a bus stop - not really.

(Before someone asks where it is, it's the other Newcastle)

(08 Jul 2022, 9:36 pm)Storx wrote Crazy ain't it - I like these personally, https://newcastletransport.info/wp-conte...3ed115.jpg

Simple and easy to read and tell you how busy the buses are, do we need to know anything more at a bus stop - not really.

(Before someone asks where it is, it's the other Newcastle)

No, the other Newcastle is in Staffordshire. That's a different other Newcastle

(08 Jul 2022, 9:34 pm)Andreos1 wrote Laziness?!
People on a corridor that has a frequent service rock up and are conditioned to get the newer, more frequent colourful bus vs the older, smaller less frequent one. 
They rock up and don't look at the timetable.

It's marketing that works for the 21 and 56 but has a negative knock on effect to owt else that is unfortunate to run a minute or two in front of it. Just look at the withdrawal list and funded services that's fallen out of it.

I don't disagree with regards the less frequent services. I can't see a reasons why GNE couldn't have lumped the 25 and 28 a couple of year ago in with the Angel brand as an "Angel connect" sub brand in order to get some rub. Even if it just meant painting the Optares that sickly green colour!

However, that's no excuse for NEXUS not to show all the routes combined in to Newcastle either. There is no logical reason why the 21, N21, and 25 should be on seperate panels on the displays. Non whatsoever. Its lazy plain and simple. The systems are pretty easy to set up...

(08 Jul 2022, 9:36 pm)Storx wrote Crazy ain't it - I like these personally, https://newcastletransport.info/wp-conte...3ed115.jpg

Simple and easy to read and tell you how busy the buses are, do we need to know anything more at a bus stop - not really.

(Before someone asks where it is, it's the other Newcastle)

Under-Lyme?
Or Australia?

??

(08 Jul 2022, 9:46 pm)BusLoverMum wrote No, the other Newcastle is in Staffordshire. That's a different other Newcastle

Ha, that's true. There's one in N. Ireland aswell I'm sure.

(08 Jul 2022, 9:49 pm)logidoodah wrote Under-Lyme?
Or Australia?

??

Australian one, it's mental the amount of places around there named after North East places; believe they mined coal around there so all the North East convicts who worked down the pits were sent there and they just decided to bring home with them.

There are actually quite a lot of Newcastles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle

For all the abject failure that GNE and MG are or have become, Nexus and it’s leadership make them look like some Silicon Valley utter geniuses.

That’s probably another thread….