(12 Oct 2022, 7:21 am)Storx wrote Catch 22 is there's not enough money to go around for competition so if you had multiple companies doing one route then other marginal services will suffer which are currently propped up by them.

You just have to look at North Tyneside where there's 15 buses an hour or whatever it is now on the Coast Road. Go off the Coast Road and it's a skeleton service at best. It's the same down in Birtley aswell.

Pricing and lack of interworking tickets is the biggest issue in the North East. Eradicate that issue then who operates the buses is just irrelevant.

Quite. If Tesco Extra and the big Sainsbury's had stores next to each other in Durham, neither would do quite as well as they currently do at Dragonville and Arnison, respectively. (aldi and lidl are a different matter, tit for tat opening stores next to each other!)

Is there a recommended distance streets and houses should be from a bus stop?

Maximum 400m I believe.

One thing I will say over the past month or two every 60 I've got on has been really busy so it doesn't help they're every 15 minutes. Like these days its rare to get on a 60 with more than 3/4 rows of seats free.

(07 Nov 2022, 8:48 am)nova347 wrote One thing I will say over the past month or two every 60 I've got on has been really busy so it doesn't help they're every 15 minutes. Like these days its rare to get on a 60 with more than 3/4 rows of seats free.

But there are seats available?   It is really only a problem if buses are driving passed full.

My opinion of reducing frequency is that it pushes peoples away e.g X45 Thats been reduced from every 15 mins to every 30 mins in a few months, thats double the wait for most people who use the service, aswell as the hourly service to consett on an evening and the last one 20:00.

As long as routes 20/60/X45/47 make money keep the frequency. Every 30 mins to consett was a nice frequency to have with the 47, but now a lot of the journeys start and finish at Blackhall Mill.

Keep the frequency the more likely they are to use it. The X45/30/31 are suffering awful delays at the moment, after a frequency cut has just hurt anyone who uses the service, there must be 3-4 X45/30/31 cancelled due to delayed operation.

Keep it at its post covid frequency but before the cuts for driver shortage imo.

(07 Nov 2022, 5:58 pm)Unber43 wrote My opinion of reducing frequency is that it pushes peoples away e.g X45 Thats been reduced from every 15 mins to every 30 mins in a few months, thats double the wait for most people who use the service, aswell as the hourly service to consett on an evening and the last one 20:00.

As long as routes 20/60/X45/47 make money keep the frequency. Every 30 mins to consett was a nice frequency to have with the 47, but now a lot of the journeys start and finish at Blackhall Mill.

Keep the frequency the more likely they are to use it. The X45/30/31 are suffering awful delays at the moment, after a frequency cut has just hurt anyone who uses the service, there must be 3-4 X45/30/31 cancelled due to delayed operation.

Keep it at its post covid frequency but before the cuts for driver shortage imo.

Unless you have inside knowledge you won’t know at what frequency a profitable route becomes unprofitable

(07 Nov 2022, 7:07 pm)Bazza wrote Unless you have inside knowledge you won’t know at what frequency a profitable route becomes unprofitable

Why didn't they do it in July then! 

20 wouldn't be losing money by adding 1 PVR, neither would the 21.

(08 Nov 2022, 6:29 am)Unber43 wrote Why didn't they do it in July then! 

20 wouldn't be losing money by adding 1 PVR, neither would the 21.

You’re still just guessing

When I was out on Friday I saw that there was several new housing estates being built one at Blackhall Mill, one near Newcastle Business Park (on 12 route), and I just wondered those routes are in GNE territory very minor changes would have to be made to incorporate these into the network, has GNE done any leaflet drops or anything or any surveys to ask where they want to go

(15 Nov 2022, 8:25 pm)Unber43 wrote When I was out on Friday I saw that there was several new housing estates being built one at Blackhall Mill, one near Newcastle Business Park (on 12 route), and I just wondered those routes are in GNE territory very minor changes would have to be made to incorporate these into the network, has GNE done any leaflet drops or anything or any surveys to ask where they want to go

Where is this new housing estate near Newcastle Business Park of which you speak? If it's the rebuilds just off Buddle Road, then that already has a frequent service in the form of Stagecoach's 1 service. Also, based upon where future residents are likely to travel, into Newcastle, then the 1 provides that link, as does the 12 and 22 if one wishes to walk down the Scotswood Road. No real need for GNE to do leaflet drops for a marginal service in that area.

I agree with message behind this article. However, I think only Stagecoach will benefit
in the North East as they've not already taken a hammer to the network.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cbwmagazine...-bite/amp/

Actually Run a decent boxing day service (GNE)

(23 Nov 2022, 5:28 pm)DeltaMan wrote I agree with message behind this article. However, I think only Stagecoach will benefit
in the North East as they've not already taken a hammer to the network.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cbwmagazine...-bite/amp/

I'm not sure about it.
Not just because of the cuts, but because the fares aren't seen as value for money.

(23 Nov 2022, 6:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'm not sure about it.
Not just because of the cuts, but because the fares aren't seen as value for money.

The Megarider is extremely good value. I'm not sure you can say that try about the GNE and Arriva tickets

(23 Nov 2022, 6:59 pm)DeltaMan wrote The Megarider is extremely good value. I'm not sure you can say that try about the GNE and Arriva tickets

Dayriders are so cheap that Stagecoach don't offer returns (at least in Sunderland but I imagine it's the same for the rest of Busways).

(24 Nov 2022, 7:26 am)F114TML wrote Dayriders are so cheap that Stagecoach don't offer returns (at least in Sunderland but I imagine it's the same for the rest of Busways).

The day riders aren't cheap imo, it's all good comparing to the other 2 but the distance you can travel with them both is much further.

Something like a return from General Hospital to Newcastle (a grand total of 3 miles) is £1.50 a mile - that's not cheap and is what the vast majority of Stagecoach fares are like. (single is £2.40).

It's all good saying, 'well you can travel to Killingworth' but no-one wants to.

(23 Nov 2022, 6:59 pm)DeltaMan wrote The Megarider is extremely good value. I'm not sure you can say that try about the GNE and Arriva tickets

I just think that GNE have too many options and the app doesn't help either as its just an array of colours when trying to buy a ticket. However for GNE the only thing I like is that I can buy the Network One Monthly pass on there, pretty sure you can't buy it on the others. As a practically daily traveller between Sunderland and Newcastle, I travel by whichever mode is quickest at the specific time (Acc to Google Maps instead of getting 4+ apps open {metro, 2 bus operators and bustimes) or the Northern trains.

For ANE when I used to work in Ryhope (using my Network One - just within the boundary of T&W) most of my colleauges travelling by bus from park lane would get the 22/23 (due to it being cheaper, not sure if this is true???), there was a few of us getting the 2/2A/39/39A/39B due to not living near or needing to change at PL.

(24 Nov 2022, 8:10 am)Storx wrote The day riders aren't cheap imo, it's all good comparing to the other 2 but the distance you can travel with them both is much further.

Something like a return from General Hospital to Newcastle (a grand total of 3 miles) is £1.50 a mile - that's not cheap and is what the vast majority of Stagecoach fares are like. (single is £2.40).

It's all good saying, 'well you can travel to Killingworth' but no-one wants to.

Yes they may not be cheaper vs distance or time on the vehicle. However everywhere SNE operate they have little competition due to having the most stable network in Tyne and Wear and Teeside. You can also get from Throckley to Whitley Bay for a day ticket (although it takes a while, but good for budgeting)
It is also a lot simpler having the same ticketing and prices across all operating areas. Being Singles, Dayrider, Megarider (& + options for cross boundary eXpress services) and U19.

(24 Nov 2022, 1:57 pm)logidoodah wrote Yes they may not be cheaper vs distance or time on the vehicle. However everywhere SNE operate they have little competition due to having the most stable network in Tyne and Wear and Teeside. You can also get from Throckley to Whitley Bay for a day ticket (although it takes a while, but good for budgeting)
It is also a lot simpler having the same ticketing and prices across all operating areas. Being Singles, Dayrider, Megarider (& + options for cross boundary eXpress services) and U19.

That's a different discussion though to be fair. The prices are way too expensive, a day ticket should be what it says on the tin - a day ticket for more than 2 journeys.

I can bet that the majority of people don't do that and are after a return ie. High Heaton to Newcastle which is also £4.50 each with Stagecoach and a higher car use area.

2 adults and a kid that's £11 for the journey or you can get in the car for 3 miles which is negligible Petrol price (which you already have) and pay for parking for 2 hours easily with the added convenience.

£4.50 for a return from West Road, Benwell, Fenham, Gosforth, Fawdon, Walker and High Heaton are all very expensive for the journeys taken and are arguably the journeys that should be done by bus rather than people living in villages 15 mile away who usually get beaten by the brush on here for daring to use their car. None of those fares should be above £1.80 for a single imo which means a return should be on the £3.40 mark.

It's not unique to Stagecoach as the 21 with GNE is just as bad aswell as the Arriva 63 in Middlesbrough to pick another two. We so badly need an Oyster type system with singles prices accordingly and sensible zones with caps.

Any ideas for USP's a independent could use in order to gain an advantage over the big three. 
My example would be to buy an ev with 12, 16 or 20 luxury seats, four wheel steering, panoramic-esque windows, a completely flat floor, NSA, Wi-Fi, charging points etc....

(26 Nov 2022, 11:35 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Any ideas for USP's a independent could use in order to gain an advantage over the big three.  
My example would be to buy an ev with 12, 16 or 20 luxury seats, four wheel steering, panoramic-esque windows, a completely flat floor, NSA, Wi-Fi, charging points etc....

Reasonable vfm fares, journey times being attractive, decent reliability and taking passengers to the places they need to be.

Should be enough.

(26 Nov 2022, 11:35 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Any ideas for USP's a independent could use in order to gain an advantage over the big three. 
My example would be to buy an ev with 12, 16 or 20 luxury seats, four wheel steering, panoramic-esque windows, a completely flat floor, NSA, Wi-Fi, charging points etc....

I hate buses with a completely flat floor, I prefer to be higher, I've never seen anyone complain about a bus having steps at the back.

---

(26 Nov 2022, 1:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote Reasonable vfm fares, journey times being attractive, decent reliability and taking passengers to the places they need to be.

Should be enough.

Should be enough for anyone who needs to take the bus, but not for someone who has a car who may be thinking of getting the bus

(26 Nov 2022, 1:49 pm)Unber43 wrote I hate buses with a completely flat floor, I prefer to be higher, I've never seen anyone complain about a bus having steps at the back.

---

Should be enough for anyone who needs to take the bus, but not for someone who has a car who may be thinking of getting the bus

Some of those people would want to do something about having to share a space with other passengers, though. Not everyone appreciates the education regarding the county Durham drug trade to be had at the back of the 16.

When I was stuck in Dunston yesterday waiting for a bus to turn up, there was one thing that really surprised me.

As it happened to be 3pm-ish, the stop was full of youths from Kingsmeadow, at least 10+ of them, and guess how many of them checked the GNE app to see when their bus was turning up?

None.

They were all checking the timetable at the stop and complaining how the bus hadn't turned up.

I thought they were supposed to be glued to their phones, and love nothing more than using apps!

(26 Nov 2022, 5:16 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Some of those people would want to do something about having to share a space with other passengers, though. Not everyone appreciates the education regarding the county Durham drug trade to be had at the back of the 16.

I don't know, it can be quite interesting to compare the level of discipline exhibited by those involved in the drug trade in television programmes such as The Wire, with some little scroat from Sacriston mouthing off that they've been bumping their friends with underweight twenty-pound bags of weed.

(03 Dec 2022, 6:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote When I was stuck in Dunston yesterday waiting for a bus to turn up, there was one thing that really surprised me.

As it happened to be 3pm-ish, the stop was full of youths from Kingsmeadow, at least 10+ of them, and guess how many of them checked the GNE app to see when their bus was turning up?

None.

They were all checking the timetable at the stop and complaining how the bus hadn't turned up.

I thought they were supposed to be glued to their phones, and love nothing more than using apps!

I have to say, a couple missed their stop on my 13, and approached me when I got to Doxford. After explaining that I couldn't take them to where they wanted to be, as I had to go and form an X1, I advised them that there'd be a bus shortly. Did I check the app? No - I didn't even think of it until after I'd left - I got out and looked on the timetable poster and pointed it out. Mercifully my little gamble paid off when I saw a bus going up to the 12/13 terminus as I approached the Morrisons.

(03 Dec 2022, 9:21 pm)F114TML wrote I have to say, a couple missed their stop on my 13, and approached me when I got to Doxford. After explaining that I couldn't take them to where they wanted to be, as I had to go and form an X1, I advised them that there'd be a bus shortly. Did I check the app? No - I didn't even think of it until after I'd left - I got out and looked on the timetable poster and pointed it out. Mercifully my little gamble paid off when I saw a bus going up to the 12/13 terminus as I approached the Morrisons.

Normally I don't bother checking the app as I like to just yolo it and hope a bus turns up on time!

As I mentioned in another thread, I tried out using the GNE app on my watch, and I found it really handy while waiting as it automatically updated on my wrist without having to keep checking the app.

(03 Dec 2022, 6:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote When I was stuck in Dunston yesterday waiting for a bus to turn up, there was one thing that really surprised me.

As it happened to be 3pm-ish, the stop was full of youths from Kingsmeadow, at least 10+ of them, and guess how many of them checked the GNE app to see when their bus was turning up?

None.

They were all checking the timetable at the stop and complaining how the bus hadn't turned up.

I thought they were supposed to be glued to their phones, and love nothing more than using apps!

Its a constant thing when I am out aswell people checking timetables, something i've noticed is that young people don't use the app, some do but most don't. 

I have seen a massive increase in people tracking buses when I first started using bustimes tracking buses seemed weird now everyone does it, I suppose if people know they're able to track their bus it might persude them to get on, however it can be misleading in tracking especially when they're jumping tracking, with 5-10 min gaps between. 

Also bring back how many seats are free massively improved my experience on the bus

(03 Dec 2022, 11:14 pm)Unber43 wrote Its a constant thing when I am out aswell people checking timetables, something i've noticed is that young people don't use the app, some do but most don't. 

I have seen a massive increase in people tracking buses when I first started using bustimes tracking buses seemed weird now everyone does it, I suppose if people know they're able to track their bus it might persude them to get on, however it can be misleading in tracking especially when they're jumping tracking, with 5-10 min gaps between. 

Also bring back how many seats are free massively improved my experience on the bus

When I was waiting for an X21 at Eldon Square, I think there was only 2 of us that were tracking the buses. To be fair, it was completely pointless because all it did was get your hopes up, then you'd realise it was turned around at Gateshead!

(03 Dec 2022, 11:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote When I was waiting for an X21 at Eldon Square, I think there was only 2 of us that were tracking the buses. To be fair, it was completely pointless because all it did was get your hopes up, then you'd realise it was turned around at Gateshead!

Reliability is a massive issue and its need to be fixed asap, however with all the different bus types/branding there isn't a lot which you can do. 

X45/X30/X31 - 30 mins layover in Stanley
X21 - 25 mins in Newcastle 

Looking at the 56 a lot of them were very late turning at Gateshead, and they've got 12 mins at Sunderland, 8 mins at Newcastle, its constant delays to the same services day after day.

Just looking on GNE Twitter, 10 21:24 from Hexham is cancelled which means you've got an hour wait, 2A to Biddick cancelled, these aren't getting people onboard.
I think the PVR X21 is 8 with the massive layover, they should use the 20/70 Plate StreetDecks with 6377/6376/6332, spare, 6377 can be used on the X10 to give some E400 a rest as they're getting hammered on the X10 and unless GNE puts in a order for new buses in about 2-3 years I can see them being dieing on the route, as they're out from 4am to midnight.