TransDev Group
TransDev Group
They are all contracted services.
Various restructuring is taking place across the Transdev network this year.
Things such as the upcoming end of the bus recovery grant plus rising costs has made some services no longer viable.
Including the above, some tendered services are going the distance as they no longer wish to operate them for whatever reason, believe the tendered price of some of their contracts no longer cover the operational costs so many are going out for retender, these are the latest casualties to surface online at least but it's already started occurring, services in the Otley and Ilkley areas under the 'Wharfedale Links' and 'Otley Dash' brands were offloaded last weekend with some of the daytime services now being covered by Connexionsbuses, others are currently suspended as no operator has yet been found to run the services and part of the Otley Dash (now 965 again) route is now covered by an extended Flyer A3 service on evenings and Sundays. More contracts are expected to be offloaded and/or put out for retender from what I've heard.
Commercial services are impacted too, two I noticed yesterday was Team Pennine services 262 and 319 which are registered for withdrawal, although these examples are at least duplicating routes run by other companies.
One of the high profile routes at risk of being lost is the Coastliner 840 between Malton, Thornton-le-Dale & extending to Whitby generally every 2 hours which has seen multiple petitions put out in order to save it although North Yorkshire County Council supposedly need to find ways in supporting around 80 services across the county, one other example being the 24 between Harrogate and Pateley Bridge which has been given funding to support the service (for either the next year or two, can't remember the time frame), other examples include the 70 run by Reliance and the 18 run by Coatham Coaches which were both commercial until recently and currently running on short term contracts whilst they judge if they're worth continuing to fund.
Think we'll be seeing cuts like this across the country with various companies in the next year or so, already seeing many services being registered for cancellation or revised in some form.
Also with their entirety of the Ribble Country Network being lost (18) + 5 off the 153 I wonder whats going to happen to them, a suggestion could be they replace older Mellors, and the older ones be sold.
However as transDev like to change the interior of the bus with every brand i can imagine it being a nightmare to change.
(22 Feb 2023, 12:19 am)Jimmi Various restructuring is taking place across the Transdev network this year.
Things such as the upcoming end of the bus recovery grant plus rising costs has made some services no longer viable.
Including the above, some tendered services are going the distance as they no longer wish to operate them for whatever reason, believe the tendered price of some of their contracts no longer cover the operational costs so many are going out for retender, these are the latest casualties to surface online at least but it's already started occurring, services in the Otley and Ilkley areas under the 'Wharfedale Links' and 'Otley Dash' brands were offloaded last weekend with some of the daytime services now being covered by Connexionsbuses, others are currently suspended as no operator has yet been found to run the services and part of the Otley Dash (now 965 again) route is now covered by an extended Flyer A3 service on evenings and Sundays. More contracts are expected to be offloaded and/or put out for retender from what I've heard.
Commercial services are impacted too, two I noticed yesterday was Team Pennine services 262 and 319 which are registered for withdrawal, although these examples are at least duplicating routes run by other companies.
One of the high profile routes at risk of being lost is the Coastliner 840 between Malton, Thornton-le-Dale & extending to Whitby generally every 2 hours which has seen multiple petitions put out in order to save it although North Yorkshire County Council supposedly need to find ways in supporting around 80 services across the county, one other example being the 24 between Harrogate and Pateley Bridge which has been given funding to support the service (for either the next year or two, can't remember the time frame), other examples include the 70 run by Reliance and the 18 run by Coatham Coaches which were both commercial until recently and currently running on short term contracts whilst they judge if they're worth continuing to fund.
Think we'll be seeing cuts like this across the country with various companies in the next year or so, already seeing many services being registered for cancellation or revised in some form.
(22 Feb 2023, 12:19 am)Jimmi Various restructuring is taking place across the Transdev network this year.
Things such as the upcoming end of the bus recovery grant plus rising costs has made some services no longer viable.
Including the above, some tendered services are going the distance as they no longer wish to operate them for whatever reason, believe the tendered price of some of their contracts no longer cover the operational costs so many are going out for retender, these are the latest casualties to surface online at least but it's already started occurring, services in the Otley and Ilkley areas under the 'Wharfedale Links' and 'Otley Dash' brands were offloaded last weekend with some of the daytime services now being covered by Connexionsbuses, others are currently suspended as no operator has yet been found to run the services and part of the Otley Dash (now 965 again) route is now covered by an extended Flyer A3 service on evenings and Sundays. More contracts are expected to be offloaded and/or put out for retender from what I've heard.
Commercial services are impacted too, two I noticed yesterday was Team Pennine services 262 and 319 which are registered for withdrawal, although these examples are at least duplicating routes run by other companies.
One of the high profile routes at risk of being lost is the Coastliner 840 between Malton, Thornton-le-Dale & extending to Whitby generally every 2 hours which has seen multiple petitions put out in order to save it although North Yorkshire County Council supposedly need to find ways in supporting around 80 services across the county, one other example being the 24 between Harrogate and Pateley Bridge which has been given funding to support the service (for either the next year or two, can't remember the time frame), other examples include the 70 run by Reliance and the 18 run by Coatham Coaches which were both commercial until recently and currently running on short term contracts whilst they judge if they're worth continuing to fund.
Think we'll be seeing cuts like this across the country with various companies in the next year or so, already seeing many services being registered for cancellation or revised in some form.
(22 Feb 2023, 4:42 pm)Andreos1 What's that Jimmi? Copy and paste liveries along with funky interiors hasn't driven growth and made these routes viable?
Well knock me down and tickle my toes with a little feather. There's a shock!
Time to stop the gravy train and jobs for the boys me thinks!
(22 Feb 2023, 4:42 pm)Andreos1 What's that Jimmi? Copy and paste liveries along with funky interiors hasn't driven growth and made these routes viable?
Well knock me down and tickle my toes with a little feather. There's a shock!
Time to stop the gravy train and jobs for the boys me thinks!
(22 Feb 2023, 5:07 pm)Adrian Funnily enough, I thought exactly the same!
You'd think Coastliner was raking it in, the way Hornby, Stenning and the rest of the old boys network go on about it, but the reality is it's time for a big whopping begging bowl to be headed in the local authority's direction.
(22 Feb 2023, 5:07 pm)Adrian Funnily enough, I thought exactly the same!
You'd think Coastliner was raking it in, the way Hornby, Stenning and the rest of the old boys network go on about it, but the reality is it's time for a big whopping begging bowl to be headed in the local authority's direction.
(22 Feb 2023, 5:39 pm)Jimmi I've thought this for a while too tbh, brandings is something that is far too heavily banked on, I imagine it has some benefits but not as much as some would have you believe. Have seen a figure on another forum that suggests the cost to Best Impressions has been in the ballpark of £236k over the last 2 years.£5 Million YIKES
As for Coastliner, supposedly the 843 to Scarborough does alright but "Britain's Most Scenic Bus Route" the 840 section between Malton and Thornton-le-Dale/Whitby doesn't so much, apart from some points in peak summer, I see somewhere in the region of anything from 10-30 people on it when I've seen it depart Whitby, most of whom are concession pass holders with NYCC providing one of the worst rates for bus pass reimbursement rates across the country (supposedly a few year back they tried to class the 840 as either an express or tourist service so that concession bus passes couldn't be used for free travel but that never took off). I'm sure the 840 used to have some level of council support on the Thornton-le-Dale to Whitby stretch in the winter months but unsure if this is still the case. It seems heavily pushing people to vote in a Twitter poll to win some title that looks good on articles/publicity potentially isn't enough to save a service and retain/grow passenger numbers either!
I've seen suggestions in a leak that York depot was losing in the region of £500k a year whilst Malton was losing around £1 million in a year. The total loss in 2022 was suggested to be £4.9 million overall once fuel and living wage costs/rises plus reduction in fuel duty rebates were factored in.
(22 Feb 2023, 5:39 pm)Jimmi I've thought this for a while too tbh, brandings is something that is far too heavily banked on, I imagine it has some benefits but not as much as some would have you believe. Have seen a figure on another forum that suggests the cost to Best Impressions has been in the ballpark of £236k over the last 2 years.£5 Million YIKES
As for Coastliner, supposedly the 843 to Scarborough does alright but "Britain's Most Scenic Bus Route" the 840 section between Malton and Thornton-le-Dale/Whitby doesn't so much, apart from some points in peak summer, I see somewhere in the region of anything from 10-30 people on it when I've seen it depart Whitby, most of whom are concession pass holders with NYCC providing one of the worst rates for bus pass reimbursement rates across the country (supposedly a few year back they tried to class the 840 as either an express or tourist service so that concession bus passes couldn't be used for free travel but that never took off). I'm sure the 840 used to have some level of council support on the Thornton-le-Dale to Whitby stretch in the winter months but unsure if this is still the case. It seems heavily pushing people to vote in a Twitter poll to win some title that looks good on articles/publicity potentially isn't enough to save a service and retain/grow passenger numbers either!
I've seen suggestions in a leak that York depot was losing in the region of £500k a year whilst Malton was losing around £1 million in a year. The total loss in 2022 was suggested to be £4.9 million overall once fuel and living wage costs/rises plus reduction in fuel duty rebates were factored in.
(22 Feb 2023, 6:44 pm)Unber43 £5 Million YIKES
Also £236K over two years just to make liveries on paper, that is going to drop.
How much do they charge per livery, surely someone could just make one inside GNE
(22 Feb 2023, 6:44 pm)Unber43 £5 Million YIKES
Also £236K over two years just to make liveries on paper, that is going to drop.
How much do they charge per livery, surely someone could just make one inside GNE
What if the local authority puts clauses in contracts allowing operators to walk away if the council has provided inaccurate passenger and revenue data during the tender process. Or if inflation exceeded the amount stated in the contract. Should Transdev just lump it?
I'd also argue the Malton/Whitby leg is not viable under any operating model without a hefty subsidy. It will be costing Transdev around £150 on each round trip between Malton and Whitby. So, unless there are a lot of Heartbeat fans around and NYCC suddenly have a generous ENCTS reimbursement then they'll never get close to that on most days. But yeah, it's Ray Stennings fault
(23 Feb 2023, 4:58 pm)DeltaMan What if the local authority puts clauses in contracts allowing operators to walk away if the council has provided inaccurate passenger and revenue data during the tender process. Or if inflation exceeded the amount stated in the contract. Should Transdev just lump it?
I'd also argue the Malton/Whitby leg is not viable under any operating model without a hefty subsidy. It will be costing Transdev around £150 on each round trip between Malton and Whitby. So, unless there are a lot of Heartbeat fans around and NYCC suddenly have a generous ENCTS reimbursement then they'll never get close to that on most days. But yeah, it's Ray Stennings fault
(23 Feb 2023, 4:58 pm)DeltaMan What if the local authority puts clauses in contracts allowing operators to walk away if the council has provided inaccurate passenger and revenue data during the tender process. Or if inflation exceeded the amount stated in the contract. Should Transdev just lump it?
I'd also argue the Malton/Whitby leg is not viable under any operating model without a hefty subsidy. It will be costing Transdev around £150 on each round trip between Malton and Whitby. So, unless there are a lot of Heartbeat fans around and NYCC suddenly have a generous ENCTS reimbursement then they'll never get close to that on most days. But yeah, it's Ray Stennings fault
(24 Feb 2023, 10:09 am)Adrian Have you any evidence of the (or any) local authority providing inaccurate figures? It'd be criminal matter as it's fraud and deception, never mind the operators needing to walk away.
Regarding the 840, I think the point being made is why isn't it standing on it's own two feet, if all this Best Impressions product branding is as good as his network of friends suggest it is? If it's not bringing in footfall, then what are the tangible benefits from spending fortunes on branding buses and creating a 'luxury' interior? It's not Ray Stenning's fault, but at some stage he needs to back up his ideology of customer experience with a measurable outcome.
(23 Feb 2023, 4:58 pm)DeltaMan What if the local authority puts clauses in contracts allowing operators to walk away if the council has provided inaccurate passenger and revenue data during the tender process. Or if inflation exceeded the amount stated in the contract. Should Transdev just lump it?
I'd also argue the Malton/Whitby leg is not viable under any operating model without a hefty subsidy. It will be costing Transdev around £150 on each round trip between Malton and Whitby. So, unless there are a lot of Heartbeat fans around and NYCC suddenly have a generous ENCTS reimbursement then they'll never get close to that on most days. But yeah, it's Ray Stennings fault
(24 Feb 2023, 10:09 am)Adrian Have you any evidence of the (or any) local authority providing inaccurate figures? It'd be criminal matter as it's fraud and deception, never mind the operators needing to walk away.
Regarding the 840, I think the point being made is why isn't it standing on it's own two feet, if all this Best Impressions product branding is as good as his network of friends suggest it is? If it's not bringing in footfall, then what are the tangible benefits from spending fortunes on branding buses and creating a 'luxury' interior? It's not Ray Stenning's fault, but at some stage he needs to back up his ideology of customer experience with a measurable outcome.
(23 Feb 2023, 4:58 pm)DeltaMan What if the local authority puts clauses in contracts allowing operators to walk away if the council has provided inaccurate passenger and revenue data during the tender process. Or if inflation exceeded the amount stated in the contract. Should Transdev just lump it?
I'd also argue the Malton/Whitby leg is not viable under any operating model without a hefty subsidy. It will be costing Transdev around £150 on each round trip between Malton and Whitby. So, unless there are a lot of Heartbeat fans around and NYCC suddenly have a generous ENCTS reimbursement then they'll never get close to that on most days. But yeah, it's Ray Stennings fault
(24 Feb 2023, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 I'd assume any operator worth their salt would have done some due-diligence on any route.
Tender, council provided data or anything else.
It's just incompetence otherwise.
(24 Feb 2023, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 I'd assume any operator worth their salt would have done some due-diligence on any route.
Tender, council provided data or anything else.
It's just incompetence otherwise.
I've been looking into the 840 and there's certainly other flaws that are less noticeable,
Whilst there's a big push for taking people over the moors and to Whitby, whilst for people originating from Whitby, it becomes fairly pointless if you want to go any further than Malton, saw a comment on Facebook suggesting that you can only have about an hour in York by catching the first bus from Whitby at 11am before having to catch the last bus back to Whitby at 1432 from the Stonebrow (equating to only 77 minutes) making a trip to Leeds & back impossible. I've caught the 11:00 off Whitby before and it's mostly just been people heading to Goathland then a few going to Thornton-le-Dale/Pickering/Whitby. Considering the amount of people holidaying in and around Whitby, you would think that there would be an earlier bus departing from Whitby, even 9am could be an improvement and potentially bring a few extra passengers in although fear this would only work if another operator such as Arriva took it on so it doesn't have to get from Malton to Whitby before 9am although there's shorts to Thornton-le-Dale around this time.
Reliability is another issue at times, Coastliner has suffered with the national driver shortages meaning trips are being cancelled at times, another issue is the service being prone to delays due to how long it is and the areas it has to run through, during peak summer season it's not uncommon to end up running 30+ late which whilst irritating to tourists getting less time to explore Whitby, that delay can mean missed appointments or being late for work etc.
(24 Feb 2023, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 I'm not sure anyone said it was.Idk, I think some of his liveries do create "desire" I quite like the Xlines Livery and it would make me get the bus as its a nice presentation, it has some great features.
There were comments around the fixation and reliance on his ideologies.
Not just within the Coastliner series of routes, but across other Transdev operating areas.
We are told that his ideologies create desire. Where is that desire? Where are the passengers who flock to his vehicles?
If there aren't any (such as on the Whitby to Malton section) - then I begin to wonder what the cost benefit actually is.
If there is a population of people and they're not drawn to the vehicles or routes - then I again wonder, what the cost benefit is.
(24 Feb 2023, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 I'm not sure anyone said it was.Idk, I think some of his liveries do create "desire" I quite like the Xlines Livery and it would make me get the bus as its a nice presentation, it has some great features.
There were comments around the fixation and reliance on his ideologies.
Not just within the Coastliner series of routes, but across other Transdev operating areas.
We are told that his ideologies create desire. Where is that desire? Where are the passengers who flock to his vehicles?
If there aren't any (such as on the Whitby to Malton section) - then I begin to wonder what the cost benefit actually is.
If there is a population of people and they're not drawn to the vehicles or routes - then I again wonder, what the cost benefit is.
(24 Feb 2023, 4:04 pm)Unber43 Idk, I think some of his liveries do create "desire" I quite like the Xlines Livery and it would make me get the bus as its a nice presentation, it has some great features.
However say it was in a bad livery (e.g arriva frequenta), or it had poor seats no headrests, no features I would be less inclined to go on it. But one thing annoys be about Creative Desire is that they make some boring/ none-cared for liveries e.g Coaster, EGRider
(24 Feb 2023, 4:04 pm)Unber43 Idk, I think some of his liveries do create "desire" I quite like the Xlines Livery and it would make me get the bus as its a nice presentation, it has some great features.
However say it was in a bad livery (e.g arriva frequenta), or it had poor seats no headrests, no features I would be less inclined to go on it. But one thing annoys be about Creative Desire is that they make some boring/ none-cared for liveries e.g Coaster, EGRider
(24 Feb 2023, 5:06 pm)Adrian Desirei agree, i would still pick the car over the bus and I doubt that will change, but say if I lived in Easington Lane/Consett/Middlesbrough (maybe) I would likely get the X1 a lot more especially if I went to Newcastle with 2/3 friends.
verb
"strongly wish for or want (something)."
I'm sorry, but the lack of tangible benefits speak for themselves. If something created desire, they'd have people flocking to it and need to increase capacity, not reduce it and go begging to cash-strapped local authorities.
(24 Feb 2023, 5:06 pm)Adrian Desirei agree, i would still pick the car over the bus and I doubt that will change, but say if I lived in Easington Lane/Consett/Middlesbrough (maybe) I would likely get the X1 a lot more especially if I went to Newcastle with 2/3 friends.
verb
"strongly wish for or want (something)."
I'm sorry, but the lack of tangible benefits speak for themselves. If something created desire, they'd have people flocking to it and need to increase capacity, not reduce it and go begging to cash-strapped local authorities.
