Stagecoach North East Latest News
Stagecoach North East Latest News
(22 Apr 2023, 9:08 am)F114TML This is the same in Sunderland - you get loads of people getting on and asking for a single to the town - you'll sometimes enter fawcett street with over 20-30 people on yet four is a lot of people staying on through (16 is the exception cos of the hospital), yet apparently no one goes there. If that were true, surely the 18 and 99 would be well used?
(22 Apr 2023, 9:08 am)F114TML This is the same in Sunderland - you get loads of people getting on and asking for a single to the town - you'll sometimes enter fawcett street with over 20-30 people on yet four is a lot of people staying on through (16 is the exception cos of the hospital), yet apparently no one goes there. If that were true, surely the 18 and 99 would be well used?
(22 Apr 2023, 9:18 am)Storx The problem is you also can't get a parking space at all the retail parks and supermarkets which is an awful lot more than 30 people.What do you mean there’s nothing in Sunderland? Great Sea Front; best Theatre in the North, some great pubs . Not arsed about shops. I also frequent Hartlepool - Marina, Headland etc .
The simple fact is people aren't using the buses at all because they can't.
The 18 is infrequent and doesn't serve the places either so it no use same as the 99. People don't want to go into Sunderland unless they have no choice there's nothing there, same as Hartlepool (which is even worse).
If people want car usage down and people using public transport a good start would be to have the public transport going to the place where people actually want to be.
Why not have a bus station at Teesside Park instead of Stockton / Middlesbrough. Why not have a bus station at the Tindale Crescent instead of Bishop Auckland. The Metro Centre does well there's no reason why they can't either and all arguably more central for people changing anyway. Same as Silverlink.
(22 Apr 2023, 9:28 am)Economic505 What do you mean there’s nothing in Sunderland? Great Sea Front; best Theatre in the North, some great pubs . Not arsed about shops. I also frequent Hartlepool - Marina, Headland etc .If it were a choice of Hell or the Metrocentre, happy to spend time with the Devil.
(22 Apr 2023, 9:18 am)Storx The problem is you also can't get a parking space at all the retail parks and supermarkets which is an awful lot more than 30 people.What do you mean there’s nothing in Sunderland? Great Sea Front; best Theatre in the North, some great pubs . Not arsed about shops. I also frequent Hartlepool - Marina, Headland etc .
The simple fact is people aren't using the buses at all because they can't.
The 18 is infrequent and doesn't serve the places either so it no use same as the 99. People don't want to go into Sunderland unless they have no choice there's nothing there, same as Hartlepool (which is even worse).
If people want car usage down and people using public transport a good start would be to have the public transport going to the place where people actually want to be.
Why not have a bus station at Teesside Park instead of Stockton / Middlesbrough. Why not have a bus station at the Tindale Crescent instead of Bishop Auckland. The Metro Centre does well there's no reason why they can't either and all arguably more central for people changing anyway. Same as Silverlink.
(22 Apr 2023, 9:28 am)Economic505 What do you mean there’s nothing in Sunderland? Great Sea Front; best Theatre in the North, some great pubs . Not arsed about shops. I also frequent Hartlepool - Marina, Headland etc .If it were a choice of Hell or the Metrocentre, happy to spend time with the Devil.
(22 Apr 2023, 9:28 am)Economic505 What do you mean there’s nothing in Sunderland? Great Sea Front; best Theatre in the North, some great pubs . Not arsed about shops. I also frequent Hartlepool - Marina, Headland etc .
If it were a choice of Hell or the Metrocentre, happy to spend time with the Devil.
(22 Apr 2023, 9:28 am)Economic505 What do you mean there’s nothing in Sunderland? Great Sea Front; best Theatre in the North, some great pubs . Not arsed about shops. I also frequent Hartlepool - Marina, Headland etc .
If it were a choice of Hell or the Metrocentre, happy to spend time with the Devil.
(22 Apr 2023, 10:12 am)Storx Just the centre mate about how ever bus goes there - it was retail orientated though that. I actually agree about the Seafront mind but it's the sort of place that's a complete nightmare to get to from most of Sunderland without yet again changing and sometimes involving walks since the E's don't serve the bus station.I think more town buses should go to Seaburn. Before 1986, you had the 102/103/124/106/118/119/505/506.
I know there's the problems with commercial but if people seriously want car usage down you can't just ignore it and building a random P&R somewhere won't do anything.
(22 Apr 2023, 10:12 am)Storx Just the centre mate about how ever bus goes there - it was retail orientated though that. I actually agree about the Seafront mind but it's the sort of place that's a complete nightmare to get to from most of Sunderland without yet again changing and sometimes involving walks since the E's don't serve the bus station.I think more town buses should go to Seaburn. Before 1986, you had the 102/103/124/106/118/119/505/506.
I know there's the problems with commercial but if people seriously want car usage down you can't just ignore it and building a random P&R somewhere won't do anything.
(22 Apr 2023, 10:32 am)Economic505 I think more town buses should go to Seaburn. Before 1986, you had the 102/103/124/106/118/119/505/506.
(22 Apr 2023, 10:32 am)Economic505 I think more town buses should go to Seaburn. Before 1986, you had the 102/103/124/106/118/119/505/506.
Have to disagree with certain posts on here.
First point Stagecoach Hartlepool do need new buses. As TCTS24 has proved the Manviros are probably split between drivers who like them those who hate them and those not bothered either way. However 24122 is from what I have seen proving popular and that’s with drivers and passengers who like it better than most of the fleet Hartlepool does have. Although I would agree I doubt drivers will go on strike over the state of the fleet as long as they getting a decent wage.
Stagecoach can make profit in Hartlepool if they made the effort to provide a better service. At the moment they not providing good enough services to the main areas people want to go to. At the moment to get to the University Hospital from the Headland means going to the Town Centre and trying to connect to the 1.
It’s the same with Teesbay retail park if they had a service actually going into it I reckon it could do well. I would be interested to see how well if they experimented with it.
At the moment especially this time of year it’s quite funny how both the costal areas where people will want to go to only has a single service yet all all services apart from the 1 go to Owton Manor. You can’t get to Seaton from Owton Manor again it means getting a bus to the town then trying to connect with the 1. You can’t even get a bus between Seaton and the Headland anymore either because again getting the 1 to the town and then getting the 7. I think if Stagecoach had actually planned a better network then it would see more passengers and actually increase profit. Same with people actually getting on the bus you don’t need to be an enthusiast to know the fleet is knackered the majority of the town knows it is. Better buses would actually get more people to use them.
The point about a service between Hartlepool and North Tees Hospital. Yes actually that is mostly Stagecoach fault because them and Arriva decided to carve areas up between themselves with an agreement they wouldn’t compete in each others areas which is why Arriva won’t do a service even though it’s not difficult to do one but either having it as a Via point as an additional service to Stockton or a proper service between both hospitals.
(22 Apr 2023, 8:37 am)tcts24 Some great comments on here ?
Once again I find myself repeating that the MANs are absolutely fine... once your used to the retarder - they're just getting on a bit.
Hartlepool doesn't necessarily need new buses, just better maintenance. There's depots out there with far older buses running in better states than Stagecoach Hartlepool. The problem is that engineering are tasked with essentially fixing buses up with duct tape rather than doing a proper job of it.
Yes of course it matters if routes are profitable. As again I've repeated over and over... Stagecoach, like any other commercial organisation are there simply to make money in whatever sector they're in. Providing public services is the responsibility of local councils.
The possibility of driver going on strike for new buses is somewhere near zero. While it can be irritating driving around in a complete bag of shite for hours can be irritating nobody would actually strike over it unless they were defective to the point of being dangerous. By which point DVSA would likely be involved I was incredibly happy to wave goodbye to 36467 but I wouldn't have went on strike if I'd been forced to drive it every day.
Drivers tend not to be that bothered about a bus breaking down - unless its just before a break or finishing time. If anything it makes the job easier and your certainly not stuck with it for hours. A replacement at Hartlepool will generally arrive within half a hour, by then you've chucked your customers onto the bus behind and after that the knackered one is engineerings problem and we get to miss part of the route out, sometimes an entire run ?
Plenty of people want to go to Hartlepool town centre, ask any pass carrying pensioner in the area between 0700 and 1800 that go there daily. Bizarrely it seems to be the highlight of they're life!
Yes every bus goes there, go to any town or city and you'll find almost all routes go to their town centre.
Again, ensuring there are buses to North Tees Hospital are the councils responsibility and as Arriva also serve both hospitals it's the blame can't be leveled entirely at Stageoach . Multiple schemes for this have existed along the years and this one https://connectteesvalley.com/data/timet...010718.pdf is still running!
And another area I'vd commented on sooo many times... Teesside Park! I don't think there's many that endure the hour on the 23 from Hartlepool to Dalton Park so why the hell would anyone want to travel for a hour to Teesside Park? And a bus from Hartlepool to Teeside park would take roughly that long.
(22 Apr 2023, 8:37 am)tcts24 Some great comments on here ?
Once again I find myself repeating that the MANs are absolutely fine... once your used to the retarder - they're just getting on a bit.
Hartlepool doesn't necessarily need new buses, just better maintenance. There's depots out there with far older buses running in better states than Stagecoach Hartlepool. The problem is that engineering are tasked with essentially fixing buses up with duct tape rather than doing a proper job of it.
Yes of course it matters if routes are profitable. As again I've repeated over and over... Stagecoach, like any other commercial organisation are there simply to make money in whatever sector they're in. Providing public services is the responsibility of local councils.
The possibility of driver going on strike for new buses is somewhere near zero. While it can be irritating driving around in a complete bag of shite for hours can be irritating nobody would actually strike over it unless they were defective to the point of being dangerous. By which point DVSA would likely be involved I was incredibly happy to wave goodbye to 36467 but I wouldn't have went on strike if I'd been forced to drive it every day.
Drivers tend not to be that bothered about a bus breaking down - unless its just before a break or finishing time. If anything it makes the job easier and your certainly not stuck with it for hours. A replacement at Hartlepool will generally arrive within half a hour, by then you've chucked your customers onto the bus behind and after that the knackered one is engineerings problem and we get to miss part of the route out, sometimes an entire run ?
Plenty of people want to go to Hartlepool town centre, ask any pass carrying pensioner in the area between 0700 and 1800 that go there daily. Bizarrely it seems to be the highlight of they're life!
Yes every bus goes there, go to any town or city and you'll find almost all routes go to their town centre.
Again, ensuring there are buses to North Tees Hospital are the councils responsibility and as Arriva also serve both hospitals it's the blame can't be leveled entirely at Stageoach . Multiple schemes for this have existed along the years and this one https://connectteesvalley.com/data/timet...010718.pdf is still running!
And another area I'vd commented on sooo many times... Teesside Park! I don't think there's many that endure the hour on the 23 from Hartlepool to Dalton Park so why the hell would anyone want to travel for a hour to Teesside Park? And a bus from Hartlepool to Teeside park would take roughly that long.
(22 Apr 2023, 2:32 pm)Storx Always seem an easy one to fix especially between Billingham at there at least imo. Something like these below would improve things massively and other than the Headlands issue you mentioned, fixes pretty much everything:
With three new services the
1 (Red)
2 (Purple)
3 (Light Blue)
All every 30 minutes and the 10, 37 and 59 all replaced by it.
No-one loses out but it opens new connections to Teesside Park which is horribly served but at the same time opens links to James Cook which is just as bad from the Stockton area. East to West services across Middlesbrough and Stockton are pretty much non existent atm.
It's not as Arriva can complain as it's all existing services in there area.
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(22 Apr 2023, 2:32 pm)Storx Always seem an easy one to fix especially between Billingham at there at least imo. Something like these below would improve things massively and other than the Headlands issue you mentioned, fixes pretty much everything:
With three new services the
1 (Red)
2 (Purple)
3 (Light Blue)
All every 30 minutes and the 10, 37 and 59 all replaced by it.
No-one loses out but it opens new connections to Teesside Park which is horribly served but at the same time opens links to James Cook which is just as bad from the Stockton area. East to West services across Middlesbrough and Stockton are pretty much non existent atm.
It's not as Arriva can complain as it's all existing services in there area.
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(22 Apr 2023, 2:21 pm)Andreos1 Why is it the councils job to support what should be a viable commercial opportunity for a private operator?
North Tees has a huge catchment area L, can provide huge commercial opportunities and is essentially ignored by public transport operators for some bizarre reason.
(22 Apr 2023, 2:21 pm)Andreos1 Why is it the councils job to support what should be a viable commercial opportunity for a private operator?
North Tees has a huge catchment area L, can provide huge commercial opportunities and is essentially ignored by public transport operators for some bizarre reason.
(22 Apr 2023, 1:23 am)glen All the E300 64 , 65 reg have go to Newcastle now because of clear air zone come a long that why mate all of alx300 08 and 09 and 59 reg to Stockton depot now that why.the thing is glen, if CAZ wasn't a thing, all the above buses you've mentioned would probably still be at their home depots,
(22 Apr 2023, 1:23 am)glen All the E300 64 , 65 reg have go to Newcastle now because of clear air zone come a long that why mate all of alx300 08 and 09 and 59 reg to Stockton depot now that why.the thing is glen, if CAZ wasn't a thing, all the above buses you've mentioned would probably still be at their home depots,
(22 Apr 2023, 3:09 pm)toward6931 the thing is glen, if CAZ wasn't a thing, all the above buses you've mentioned would probably still be at their home depots,
the Newcastle services are in general busier, have increased frequencies, longer routes and seem to run a lot longer times of day than the Stockton services, by virtue of Newcastle being a major metropolitan area, the majority of Newcastle buses running today are still 2008,2009,2010,2011 buses and they run ok despite some being on the road from potentially 5am in the morning till midnight in some cases, most will run 6 or maybe even 7 days a week,
when you look at the 62 route for example, starting from throckley all the way through the west end, through Newcastle CC to Killingworth, that's a round trip of about 50 miles depending on if there's any deviations etc. i think the route takes about 1 hour 45 minutes to do end to end. the buses on that route probably do a minimum of 6 cycles of that route, 6 days a week.
that's why Newcastle ideally needs the most investment, im not saying Stockton or hartlepool shouldn't get anything new, far from it as I believe all fare paying punters should get a nice experience, however if for example SNE was to get a batch of 20 brand new short wheelbase MMCs in the next 12 months in this current situation, I would still say that hartlepool should only receive a token amount of say 4 vehicles to ease some of their current woes, I would say that each Newcastle depot should receive 5 each and Sunderland/ south shields 3 each, at least that way each depot gets some of their particular issues sorted out
(22 Apr 2023, 3:09 pm)toward6931 the thing is glen, if CAZ wasn't a thing, all the above buses you've mentioned would probably still be at their home depots,
the Newcastle services are in general busier, have increased frequencies, longer routes and seem to run a lot longer times of day than the Stockton services, by virtue of Newcastle being a major metropolitan area, the majority of Newcastle buses running today are still 2008,2009,2010,2011 buses and they run ok despite some being on the road from potentially 5am in the morning till midnight in some cases, most will run 6 or maybe even 7 days a week,
when you look at the 62 route for example, starting from throckley all the way through the west end, through Newcastle CC to Killingworth, that's a round trip of about 50 miles depending on if there's any deviations etc. i think the route takes about 1 hour 45 minutes to do end to end. the buses on that route probably do a minimum of 6 cycles of that route, 6 days a week.
that's why Newcastle ideally needs the most investment, im not saying Stockton or hartlepool shouldn't get anything new, far from it as I believe all fare paying punters should get a nice experience, however if for example SNE was to get a batch of 20 brand new short wheelbase MMCs in the next 12 months in this current situation, I would still say that hartlepool should only receive a token amount of say 4 vehicles to ease some of their current woes, I would say that each Newcastle depot should receive 5 each and Sunderland/ south shields 3 each, at least that way each depot gets some of their particular issues sorted out
(22 Apr 2023, 3:06 pm)tyresmoke The existing services from/to Teesside Park run from both hubs in Middlesbrough & Stockton. I tried connecting Stockton & James Cook Hospital at Stagecarriage and the market just want there.
Also a lot of the 59’s route is also served by the 13/13a which offers links to Middlesbrough already.
I definitely think there needs to be a link between the two hospitals but the only way that would be viable is to run it around a handful of school contracts - and adding other employment sites and other unserved bits such as Amazon and Wolviston Village.
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(22 Apr 2023, 3:06 pm)tyresmoke The existing services from/to Teesside Park run from both hubs in Middlesbrough & Stockton. I tried connecting Stockton & James Cook Hospital at Stagecarriage and the market just want there.
Also a lot of the 59’s route is also served by the 13/13a which offers links to Middlesbrough already.
I definitely think there needs to be a link between the two hospitals but the only way that would be viable is to run it around a handful of school contracts - and adding other employment sites and other unserved bits such as Amazon and Wolviston Village.
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(22 Apr 2023, 4:55 pm)Storx Aye it's a bit of an awkward one. I just seen the 13/13A after reason I pulled the post after - forgot it existed.
They're just places without services, probably doesn't help that people are so used to just going in the car that they don't want to change. Not sure what the real answer is but if people are being serious about reducing car usage then something arguably needs to be done.
It doesn't help that Teesside Park sucks for buses, it's the sort of place where they need a bus link which links onto the roads around Thornaby and if even more optimistic a bridge linking across to Whinney Banks Road over the A19 but let's be honest that isn't happening. It must be the most disconnected place around and the current bus stop is just in the wrong place and is an afterthought.
The 12/17/17A could easily serve it if they did and that would link most of Teesside to the place pretty much or at least the places where right now it's an awkward doubling back and I don't even think the most optimistic person can seriously say Stockton and Middlesbrough are ever going to turn around for retail.
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(22 Apr 2023, 4:55 pm)Storx Aye it's a bit of an awkward one. I just seen the 13/13A after reason I pulled the post after - forgot it existed.
They're just places without services, probably doesn't help that people are so used to just going in the car that they don't want to change. Not sure what the real answer is but if people are being serious about reducing car usage then something arguably needs to be done.
It doesn't help that Teesside Park sucks for buses, it's the sort of place where they need a bus link which links onto the roads around Thornaby and if even more optimistic a bridge linking across to Whinney Banks Road over the A19 but let's be honest that isn't happening. It must be the most disconnected place around and the current bus stop is just in the wrong place and is an afterthought.
The 12/17/17A could easily serve it if they did and that would link most of Teesside to the place pretty much or at least the places where right now it's an awkward doubling back and I don't even think the most optimistic person can seriously say Stockton and Middlesbrough are ever going to turn around for retail.
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(22 Apr 2023, 5:02 pm)tyresmoke Teesside Park, as with everything in Teesside it’s done half heartedly and if it had another entry/exit onto the A19 would probably make services from the bottom end of Middlesbrough fast via A174/A19 and Teesside Park worth looking at, as it is it’s too much of a diversion to serve it on the way. A bridge over to Acklam would be ideal as you could run something off Acklam Road but again pie in the sky with the current situation.
The latest car park re-design has made it even worse for buses to serve the park and why they’ve recently changed the route around there missing out the busy stop at Morrisons I have no idea. The fact people now have to cross the road to reach the shop just makes buses harder / more awkward to use and puts them at a disadvantage.
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(22 Apr 2023, 5:02 pm)tyresmoke Teesside Park, as with everything in Teesside it’s done half heartedly and if it had another entry/exit onto the A19 would probably make services from the bottom end of Middlesbrough fast via A174/A19 and Teesside Park worth looking at, as it is it’s too much of a diversion to serve it on the way. A bridge over to Acklam would be ideal as you could run something off Acklam Road but again pie in the sky with the current situation.
The latest car park re-design has made it even worse for buses to serve the park and why they’ve recently changed the route around there missing out the busy stop at Morrisons I have no idea. The fact people now have to cross the road to reach the shop just makes buses harder / more awkward to use and puts them at a disadvantage.
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(22 Apr 2023, 4:00 pm)Storx That's debatable mind. I'd say the Stockton routes are stronger than the Newcastle counterparts which are gaining the 64/65 plates.ah don't get me wrong SNE as a whole deserves a massive amount more of investment,
Your comparing different routes here. The buses aren't being taken off Stockton aren't going on the 62. We're talking about the X47/X77/X78/X79/X82/X87/X88 which imo are all weak services in comparison to the Stockton services these buses are coming off and aren't more frequent.
The major routes in Newcastle other than the 12/22/38 have much newer buses (16/69 plate) and assuming one of those will be upgraded with the new buses.
imo the best way to sort out the mess with the buses would be this would be to buy new midi Enviro 200 MMC's to replace all the Enviro 200's at Sunderland and the 1 at Hartlepool then use the displaced Enviro 200's to South Shields and Hartlepool to get shot of the MAN's.
For big buses purchase new Enviro 200 MMC long buses for Stockton and displace the MAN's to reserve and the remaining 64/65 plates to Sujderland to get shot of the gas buses.
(22 Apr 2023, 4:00 pm)Storx That's debatable mind. I'd say the Stockton routes are stronger than the Newcastle counterparts which are gaining the 64/65 plates.ah don't get me wrong SNE as a whole deserves a massive amount more of investment,
Your comparing different routes here. The buses aren't being taken off Stockton aren't going on the 62. We're talking about the X47/X77/X78/X79/X82/X87/X88 which imo are all weak services in comparison to the Stockton services these buses are coming off and aren't more frequent.
The major routes in Newcastle other than the 12/22/38 have much newer buses (16/69 plate) and assuming one of those will be upgraded with the new buses.
imo the best way to sort out the mess with the buses would be this would be to buy new midi Enviro 200 MMC's to replace all the Enviro 200's at Sunderland and the 1 at Hartlepool then use the displaced Enviro 200's to South Shields and Hartlepool to get shot of the MAN's.
For big buses purchase new Enviro 200 MMC long buses for Stockton and displace the MAN's to reserve and the remaining 64/65 plates to Sujderland to get shot of the gas buses.
(22 Apr 2023, 6:21 pm)Lollist Maybe they should do a route make-over like they did with scunthorpe. Fix all the route number so it just goes 1,2,3,4,5 etc and rework them and make them more profitable. but it is a private bus company so i doubt anything like that would happenIf you mean Hartlepool that is what’s happening but reworking and renumbering the 6 and 7 both long standing routes which predate the Stagecoach network with very little in re routing won’t be a good idea. At the moment they is only 5 commercial services they operate the 1 3/3A 6 and 7. That’s along side one college service the UTC with one split journey each way and two early morning work services the 20 and 980 which is about one journey a day only going one way. So it is a simple network and the existing services up to a point do work. The problem really is that they really needs to be additional services. To go back 20 years to 2003 you had a lot more services either the following
(22 Apr 2023, 6:21 pm)Lollist Maybe they should do a route make-over like they did with scunthorpe. Fix all the route number so it just goes 1,2,3,4,5 etc and rework them and make them more profitable. but it is a private bus company so i doubt anything like that would happenIf you mean Hartlepool that is what’s happening but reworking and renumbering the 6 and 7 both long standing routes which predate the Stagecoach network with very little in re routing won’t be a good idea. At the moment they is only 5 commercial services they operate the 1 3/3A 6 and 7. That’s along side one college service the UTC with one split journey each way and two early morning work services the 20 and 980 which is about one journey a day only going one way. So it is a simple network and the existing services up to a point do work. The problem really is that they really needs to be additional services. To go back 20 years to 2003 you had a lot more services either the following
