(22 Apr 2023, 1:23 am)glen wrote All the E300 64 , 65 reg have go to Newcastle now  because of clear air zone come a long that why mate all of alx300 08 and 09 and 59 reg to Stockton depot now that why.

the thing is glen, if CAZ wasn't a thing, all the above buses you've mentioned would probably still be at their home depots,

the Newcastle services are in general busier, have increased frequencies, longer routes and seem to run a lot longer times of day than the Stockton services, by virtue of Newcastle being a major metropolitan area, the majority of Newcastle buses running today are still 2008,2009,2010,2011 buses and they run ok despite some being on the road from potentially 5am in the morning till midnight in some cases, most will run 6 or maybe even 7 days a week,

when you look at the 62 route for example, starting from throckley all the way through the west end, through Newcastle CC to Killingworth, that's a round trip of about 50 miles depending on if there's any deviations etc. i think the route takes about 1 hour 45 minutes to do end to end. the buses on that route probably do a minimum of 6 cycles of that route, 6 days a week.

that's why Newcastle ideally needs the most investment, im not saying Stockton or hartlepool shouldn't get anything new, far from it as I believe all fare paying punters should get a nice experience, however if for example SNE was to get a batch of 20 brand new short wheelbase MMCs in the next 12 months in this current situation, I would still say that hartlepool should only receive a token amount of say 4 vehicles to ease some of their current woes, I would say that each Newcastle depot should receive 5 each and Sunderland/ south shields 3 each, at least that way each depot gets some of their particular issues sorted out

Stagecoach Stockton and hartlepool depot need new buses at some point to replace alx300 I think?

(22 Apr 2023, 3:09 pm)toward6931 wrote the thing is glen, if CAZ wasn't a thing, all the above buses you've mentioned would probably still be at their home depots,

the Newcastle services are in general busier, have increased frequencies, longer routes and seem to run a lot longer times of day than the Stockton services, by virtue of Newcastle being a major metropolitan area, the majority of Newcastle buses running today are still 2008,2009,2010,2011 buses and they run ok despite some being on the road from potentially 5am in the morning till midnight in some cases, most will run 6 or maybe even 7 days a week,

when you look at the 62 route for example, starting from throckley all the way through the west end, through Newcastle CC to Killingworth, that's a round trip of about 50 miles depending on if there's any deviations etc. i think the route takes about 1 hour 45 minutes to do end to end. the buses on that route probably do a minimum of 6 cycles of that route, 6 days a week.

that's why Newcastle ideally needs the most investment, im not saying Stockton or hartlepool shouldn't get anything new, far from it as I believe all fare paying punters should get a nice experience, however if for example SNE was to get a batch of 20 brand new short wheelbase MMCs in the next 12 months in this current situation, I would still say that hartlepool should only receive a token amount of say 4 vehicles to ease some of their current woes, I would say that each Newcastle depot should receive 5 each and Sunderland/ south shields 3 each, at least that way each depot gets some of their particular issues sorted out

That's debatable mind. I'd say the Stockton routes are stronger than the Newcastle counterparts which are gaining the 64/65 plates. 

Your comparing different routes here. The buses aren't being taken off Stockton aren't  going on the 62. We're talking about the X47/X77/X78/X79/X82/X87/X88 which imo are all weak services in comparison to the Stockton services these buses are coming off and aren't more frequent.

The major routes in Newcastle other than the 12/22/38 have much newer buses (16/69 plate) and assuming one of those will be upgraded with the new buses.

imo the best way to sort out the mess with the buses would be this would be to buy new midi Enviro 200 MMC's to replace all the Enviro 200's at Sunderland and the 1 at Hartlepool then use the displaced Enviro 200's to South Shields and Hartlepool to get shot of the MAN's.

For big buses purchase new Enviro 200 MMC long buses for Stockton and displace the MAN's to reserve and the remaining 64/65 plates to Sujderland to get shot of the gas buses.

Thanks for info mate

(22 Apr 2023, 3:06 pm)tyresmoke wrote The existing services from/to Teesside Park run from both hubs in Middlesbrough & Stockton. I tried connecting Stockton & James Cook Hospital at Stagecarriage and the market just want there.
Also a lot of the 59’s route is also served by the 13/13a which offers links to Middlesbrough already.

I definitely think there needs to be a link between the two hospitals but the only way that would be viable is to run it around a handful of school contracts - and adding other employment sites and other unserved bits such  as Amazon and Wolviston Village.


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Aye it's a bit of an awkward one. I just seen the 13/13A after reason I pulled the post after - forgot it existed.

They're just places without services, probably doesn't help that people are so used to just going in the car that they don't want to change. Not sure what the real answer is but if people are being serious about reducing car usage then something arguably needs to be done.

It doesn't help that Teesside Park sucks for buses, it's the sort of place where they need a bus link which links onto the roads around Thornaby and if even more optimistic a bridge linking across to Whinney Banks Road over the A19 but let's be honest that isn't happening. It must be the most disconnected place around and the current bus stop is just in the wrong place and is an afterthought.

The 12/17/17A could easily serve it if they did and that would link most of Teesside to the place pretty much or at least the places where right now it's an awkward doubling back and I don't even think the most optimistic person can seriously say Stockton and Middlesbrough are ever going to turn around for retail.

(22 Apr 2023, 4:55 pm)Storx wrote Aye it's a bit of an awkward one. I just seen the 13/13A after reason I pulled the post after - forgot it existed.

They're just places without services, probably doesn't help that people are so used to just going in the car that they don't want to change. Not sure what the real answer is but if people are being serious about reducing car usage then something arguably needs to be done.

It doesn't help that Teesside Park sucks for buses, it's the sort of place where they need a bus link which links onto the roads around Thornaby and if even more optimistic a bridge linking across to Whinney Banks Road over the A19 but let's be honest that isn't happening. It must be the most disconnected place around and the current bus stop is just in the wrong place and is an afterthought.

The 12/17/17A could easily serve it if they did and that would link most of Teesside to the place pretty much or at least the places where right now it's an awkward doubling back and I don't even think the most optimistic person can seriously say Stockton and Middlesbrough are ever going to turn around for retail.

Teesside Park, as with everything in Teesside it’s done half heartedly and if it had another entry/exit onto the A19 would probably make services from the bottom end of Middlesbrough fast via A174/A19 and Teesside Park worth looking at, as it is it’s too much of a diversion to serve it on the way. A bridge over to Acklam would be ideal as you could run something off Acklam Road but again pie in the sky with the current situation.
The latest car park re-design has made it even worse for buses to serve the park and why they’ve recently changed the route around there missing out the busy stop at Morrisons I have no idea. The fact people now have to cross the road to reach the shop just makes buses harder / more awkward to use and puts them at a disadvantage.


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(22 Apr 2023, 5:02 pm)tyresmoke wrote Teesside Park, as with everything in Teesside it’s done half heartedly and if it had another entry/exit onto the A19 would probably make services from the bottom end of Middlesbrough fast via A174/A19 and Teesside Park worth looking at, as it is it’s too much of a diversion to serve it on the way. A bridge over to Acklam would be ideal as you could run something off Acklam Road but again pie in the sky with the current situation.
The latest car park re-design has made it even worse for buses to serve the park and why they’ve recently changed the route around there missing out the busy stop at Morrisons I have no idea. The fact people now have to cross the road to reach the shop just makes buses harder / more awkward to use and puts them at a disadvantage.


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Yeah totally agreed tbh. Must admit I don't have a clue who thought it was a good idea either to push all the traffic going in and out of the place by the shops and over level crossings. Absolutely bonkers, I don't have any form of qualification of traffic planning and I could tell you that's a bad idea which was shown this Christmas when the traffic was backing up to Portrack Lane daily and grinding the A19/A66 to a halt.

Madness.

Mind I feel sorry for Middlesbrough being crippled by large retail parks at both sides of the town which has killed the place which they have no control over either. (Cleveland Retail Park at the other side by Redcar). Planning at it's worst.

(22 Apr 2023, 4:00 pm)Storx wrote That's debatable mind. I'd say the Stockton routes are stronger than the Newcastle counterparts which are gaining the 64/65 plates. 

Your comparing different routes here. The buses aren't being taken off Stockton aren't  going on the 62. We're talking about the X47/X77/X78/X79/X82/X87/X88 which imo are all weak services in comparison to the Stockton services these buses are coming off and aren't more frequent.

The major routes in Newcastle other than the 12/22/38 have much newer buses (16/69 plate) and assuming one of those will be upgraded with the new buses.

imo the best way to sort out the mess with the buses would be this would be to buy new midi Enviro 200 MMC's to replace all the Enviro 200's at Sunderland and the 1 at Hartlepool then use the displaced Enviro 200's to South Shields and Hartlepool to get shot of the MAN's.

For big buses purchase new Enviro 200 MMC long buses for Stockton and displace the MAN's to reserve and the remaining 64/65 plates to Sujderland to get shot of the gas buses.

ah don't get me wrong SNE as a whole deserves a massive amount more of investment,

but we all know looking at recent orders even with the the financial nightmare of CAZ hanging over a decent percentage of the division, that UK bus isn't treating the north east as it deserves. the whole thing about making Scotland all electric is pure PR. as for places like torquay and chichester getting double the amount of brand new double decks that north east is receiving don't get me started.

the reason i mentioned the 62 is I feel it is a very strong route through Newcastle but it only covers a very specific corridor, as for all the X routes you've just mentioned yes they aren't as strong but they are covering areas which either don't have much public transport running through them especially on the outer fringes of Newcastle like Darras hall, Newbiggin hall etc. or in the case of the X47 which pretty much competes with the metro, which you can guarantee doubles the amount of passengers overnight when the metro over Kingston park goes down.

as i said to glen if it hadn't for CAZ those routes would still be running the ALXs, 08 and Cambrian 09 E300s, but because is here and there was a lack of investment in the newer buses that wouldn't require paying the charges they have had to move everything around,

on a positive though i will bet that the next batch of newer single decker's whatever they may be whether second hand E300s or brand new MMCs will again go to Teesside because of the older vehicles that now reside their

Maybe they should do a route make-over like they did with scunthorpe. Fix all the route number so it just goes 1,2,3,4,5 etc and rework them and make them more profitable. but it is a private bus company so i doubt anything like that would happen

(22 Apr 2023, 6:21 pm)Lollist wrote Maybe they should do a route make-over like they did with scunthorpe. Fix all the route number so it just goes 1,2,3,4,5 etc and rework them and make them more profitable. but it is a private bus company so i doubt anything like that would happen

If you mean Hartlepool that is what’s happening but reworking and renumbering the 6 and 7 both long standing routes which predate the Stagecoach network with very little in re routing won’t be a good idea.  At the moment they is only 5 commercial services they operate the 1 3/3A 6 and 7. That’s along side one college service the UTC with one split journey each way and two early morning work services the 20 and 980 which is about one journey a day only going one way.  So it is a simple network and the existing services up to a point do work. The problem really is that they really needs to be additional services.  To go back 20 years to 2003 you had a lot more services either the following 

1,1A,2,2A, 3, 3A,4,5,6,7,7A,8,9( Sunday only service), 12,15(Evening and Sunday) X9( Jointly with Stockton Depot) 516,527 it was not perfect but most areas where served but the problem is Stagecoach since they took over have axed Services. As for the profit they used to make additional income from having a coaching unit available for private hire alongside doing excursions but that was all axed around 2002 even though it was successful.  They also used to have the X99 to metrocentre which ran for many years which was also axed around 2002. So Stagecoach really have themselves to blame by 

1) cost cutting over the years getter to the current situation of where a depot that was making profit now barley breaks even.  

2) Not keeping up with passengers habits by having routes to place’s passengers will want to go to. 

3) By not having a big enough budget to keep the buses in good condition.  If the buses were kept decent people would use them more but it’s well known with the Hartlepool fleet you never know if will you get a journey down without it breaking down or having a problem.  I personally used to joke that alpha kept a truck in the town due to how often breakdowns would happen and it’s not a joke I once witnessed two breakdowns with hours of each other.

How many bus services that are ran by Hartlepool depot are actually commercial and how many are secured contract?, and are most evenings and Sundays just secured contracts?, has anyone got a list


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(23 Apr 2023, 11:39 am)cbma06 wrote How many bus services that are ran by Hartlepool depot are actually commercial and how many are secured contract?, and are most evenings and Sundays just secured contracts?, has anyone got a list


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Like I put in the last post all of them the 1 3/3A 6 and 7 are all commercial. 

the 20 980 and UTC are all contract services.  All Sunday and Evening services are commercial as well hence they are not many services at all after 6:30 an hourly service 1 a split service 7 from Owton Manor and half a service 6 been the only services on an evening using a total of about 5-6 buses if that.

(23 Apr 2023, 12:45 pm)col87 wrote Like I put in the last post all of them the 1 3/3A 6 and 7 are all commercial. 

the 20 980 and UTC are all contract services.  All Sunday and Evening services are commercial as well hence they are not many services at all after 6:30 an hourly service 1 a split service 7 from Owton Manor and half a service 6 been the only services on an evening using a total of about 5-6 buses if that.

After 8pm you’re left with just 4 buses out, 3 on the 6/7 and one running service 1


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If only stagecoach read this forum tho dkubt they would listen to it though

Not sure if anyone has noticed but 22885 Has Gone To Hartlepool On Loan

(23 Apr 2023, 5:42 pm)Mr Alx300 22062 NK54 BFF wrote Not sure if anyone has noticed but 22885 Has Gone To Hartlepool On Loan

so it gets even more ridiculous then as that now makes it 4 buses on loan ( unless one has gone back ).

Do you think stagecoach
north east needs more second hand buses to help out with Stockton and hartlepool depot?

(23 Apr 2023, 9:18 pm)col87 wrote so it gets even more ridiculous then as that now makes it 4 buses on loan ( unless one has gone back ).

24122 returned on Saturday night in exchange for 22885.

(24 Apr 2023, 4:51 am)Kuyoyo wrote 24122 returned on Saturday night in exchange for 22885.

That’s interesting then as it was tracking on the 6 earlier.  Saying that I don’t many are tracking properly at the moment.

(24 Apr 2023, 1:08 pm)col87 wrote That’s interesting then as it was tracking on the 6 earlier.  Saying that I don’t many are tracking properly at the moment.

22885 was parked up in Stockton depot earlier today

We need more carsisle buses clearly

(16 Apr 2023, 9:15 pm)Dyllan7817 wrote The next MANviro 300 expected to arrive at Stockton is 22883 SP09DRX this should be in Stocktons fleet around the 24th this month whether it’ll stay in beachball or not is currently unknown atm

Still tracking in Lancaster as of today

(23 Apr 2023, 11:31 am)col87 wrote If you mean Hartlepool that is what’s happening but reworking and renumbering the 6 and 7 both long standing routes which predate the Stagecoach network with very little in re routing won’t be a good idea.  At the moment they is only 5 commercial services they operate the 1 3/3A 6 and 7. That’s along side one college service the UTC with one split journey each way and two early morning work services the 20 and 980 which is about one journey a day only going one way.  So it is a simple network and the existing services up to a point do work. The problem really is that they really needs to be additional services.  To go back 20 years to 2003 you had a lot more services either the following 

1,1A,2,2A, 3, 3A,4,5,6,7,7A,8,9( Sunday only service), 12,15(Evening and Sunday) X9( Jointly with Stockton Depot) 516,527 it was not perfect but most areas where served but the problem is Stagecoach since they took over have axed Services. As for the profit they used to make additional income from having a coaching unit available for private hire alongside doing excursions but that was all axed around 2002 even though it was successful.  They also used to have the X99 to metrocentre which ran for many years which was also axed around 2002. So Stagecoach really have themselves to blame by 

1) cost cutting over the years getter to the current situation of where a depot that was making profit now barley breaks even.  

2) Not keeping up with passengers habits by having routes to place’s passengers will want to go to. 

3) By not having a big enough budget to keep the buses in good condition.  If the buses were kept decent people would use them more but it’s well known with the Hartlepool fleet you never know if will you get a journey down without it breaking down or having a problem.  I personally used to joke that alpha kept a truck in the town due to how often breakdowns would happen and it’s not a joke I once witnessed two breakdowns with hours of each other.

Im not sure about that mind.  Ok if buses are breaking down every time you use them you might think about using other forms of transport ( if you can ) but you'd hardly go out and spend 10k on a car or pay 5x the amount for a taxi? How many more punter uses the GNE xlines serices because they are new buses?  I doubt the passenger footfall has increased at all. And ive seen x lines bus parked up at the side of the road with an engineer so newer doesn't always mean reliable.

22890 is now believed to be at Sunderland for repaint before heading to Stockton. 

22581 not 100% sure if this is withdrawn it shows as withdrawn on bustimes as it was being stripped for parts on the back yard at Slatyford depot but it’s now in the workshop that could be another Stockton are getting.

22065 has been updated on bustimes to being painted into driver training colours so I don’t think that’s heading to Stockton.

(25 Apr 2023, 6:38 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote 22890 is now believed to be at Sunderland for repaint before heading to Stockton. 

22581 not 100% sure if this is withdrawn it shows as withdrawn on bustimes as it was being stripped for parts on the back yard at Slatyford depot but it’s now in the workshop that could be another Stockton are getting.

22065 has been updated on bustimes to being painted into driver training colours so I don’t think that’s heading to Stockton.

i have seen photos of 22065 and can confirm it is indeed in training colours

Why more trainers we have thousands

Does anyone know why Walkergate now have 8 E200s for a PVR of 5. I assumed 37314 transferring over was to replace 36468? Leaving Walkergate with 37312,37314-19

(26 Apr 2023, 3:25 pm)Lollist wrote Why more trainers we have thousands

22075 is getting withdrawn at Stockton or is believed to be withdrawn

Just seen a photo of 22883 at Stockton depot today.

Is going be more ex 300 going to Stockton and alx300 to?