(03 Apr 2023, 8:08 am)Unber43 wrote How do you stop people not going further on their ticket, than they should?

You can't, should be concentrating on driving than memorising every ticket that you've been shown.

If someone argues the toss over something, like "the fare to the Fox & Hounds was £1.40 yesterday" and then throws a tantrum about it being £1.80 then it will stick in your mind - and then you'll be looking out (and hoping) they get off there.

QR codes help prevent fraudulent use or underpayment, but at companies where it's not used, then it's completely reliant on the driver to check tickets. I've had loads of people underpaying for Network One (ie boarding with a Z1 in Z2), or just boarding with GNE-only mobile tickets hoping I glance and don't notice.

(03 Apr 2023, 7:55 pm)F114TML wrote Tbh, for me as a driver, that's an issue for the inspectors. They even told us in training that we aren't ticket inspectors, so just check it's valid when they got on and move on to the next customer - there's no point arguing with someone overriding. Last time I did the X24 I had a couple people who'd used a Newcastle Megarider to get on in Newcastle - only to find the machine throws a hissy when they try to use it to come back. That's the view I'd take with other things - if it's valid at the boarding point, it's good enough. If you can't come back on that ticket because you travelled outside it's validity, that's your problem.

I remember getting the OK travel 44b to town one Saturday. He stopped at the 3 mile in and went upstairs and brought down 3 sheepish looking teenagers and made them pay for another ticket. His last words as they went back upstairs were if your traveling to Newcastle you pay to Newcastle in a menacing voice.

(04 Apr 2023, 7:52 am)omnicity4659 wrote You can't, should be concentrating on driving than memorising every ticket that you've been shown.

If someone argues the toss over something, like "the fare to the Fox & Hounds was £1.40 yesterday" and then throws a tantrum about it being £1.80 then it will stick in your mind - and then you'll be looking out (and hoping) they get off there.

QR codes help prevent fraudulent use or underpayment, but at companies where it's not used, then it's completely reliant on the driver to check tickets. I've had loads of people underpaying for Network One (ie boarding with a Z1 in Z2), or just boarding with GNE-only mobile tickets hoping I glance and don't notice.

And routes like our 18 aren't helped by people like the family that got on mine at Southwick on Saturday. "two £1.40s, please" [the £1.40 would only be valid to the Fulwell Grange]. I duely obliged only for them to go all the way to Seaburn! I just thought "really?" - no doubt they'll be the first to moan in June (hint, hint)

(04 Apr 2023, 8:15 am)F114TML wrote And routes like our 18 aren't helped by people like the family that got on mine at Southwick on Saturday. "two £1.40s, please" [the £1.40 would only be valid to the Fulwell Grange]. I duely obliged only for them to go all the way to Seaburn! I just thought "really?" - no doubt they'll be the first to moan in June (hint, hint)

Prices going up I take it, doesn't surprise me tbh, I think we all knew it was coming, have to give credit to Stagecoach though for not changing the prices for quite a while.

Are SC making a profit?

(04 Apr 2023, 9:00 am)Michael wrote Prices going up I take it, doesn't surprise me tbh, I think we all knew it was coming, have to give credit to Stagecoach though for not changing the prices for quite a while.

Allegedly there's service cuts coming in june cos driver shortage (bunch of people left over the strikes), and to reduce the amount of buses needed to replace the gassies, etc. Rumour is 15 min service and withdrawal of the 8 and 18. Other rumours are or have been; withdrawing the 11 between Quarry View and St Lukes, 20 min service on 10 and 11, increase of the Economics to every 20 mins (I'd eat my hat if that happens), replacement of the Gasbuses and E300s with the Hybrid 400s in Newcastle. Remember - these are just rumours.

(04 Apr 2023, 9:09 am)Unber43 wrote Are SC making a profit?

I'd be very surprised if they aren't tbh - at least in the NE.

Are the E's Economics?

Also the 10/11 have had a massive drop in frequency since COVID

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The 8 will probs go under Nexus Contract, and I must say that should be a must win for GNE

(04 Apr 2023, 9:59 am)F114TML wrote Allegedly there's service cuts coming in june cos driver shortage (bunch of people left over the strikes), and to reduce the amount of buses needed to replace the gassies, etc. Rumour is 15 min service and withdrawal of the 8 and 18. Other rumours are or have been; withdrawing the 11 between Quarry View and St Lukes, 20 min service on 10 and 11, increase of the Economics to every 20 mins (I'd eat my hat if that happens), replacement of the Gasbuses and E300s with the Hybrid 400s in Newcastle. Remember - these are just rumours.

Wouldn't be shocked, if the 18 finally went, it hasn't been good since Sunderland Council closed the Queen Alex Bridge in 2006? for those works, it never recovered, then it had too many cuts and route changes.

I wonder if they would increase the E's because of the electric buses although I don't they're arriving till the first part of 2024.

I wouldn't mind a service every 15 mins overall, as long as there wasn't massive cuts on current early morning and between 6pm and 7pm (times I mainly travel)

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(04 Apr 2023, 10:20 am)Unber43 wrote Are the E's Economics?

Also the 10/11 have had a massive drop in frequency since COVID

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The 8 will probs go under Nexus Contract, and I must say that should be a must win for GNE

Ye

(04 Apr 2023, 10:20 am)Unber43 wrote Are the E's Economics?

Also the 10/11 have had a massive drop in frequency since COVID

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The 8 will probs go under Nexus Contract, and I must say that should be a must win for GNE

- E1, E2 and E6 are collectively known as 'The Economics', or simply 'Ecos' - presumably goes back to when they were branded as such by the PTE and Busways.
- I thought the 8, 10, 11, 18, 20 and 99 are the only routes to go back to their pre-Covid frequencies?
- Yeah i can see the 8 going to contract - it's well used, but mainly by concessionary passes and schoolkids. I'd also see the 18A going to a scholars contract if the 18 doesn't.

(04 Apr 2023, 10:30 am)F114TML wrote - E1, E2 and E6 are collectively known as 'The Economics', or simply 'Ecos' - presumably goes back to when they were branded as such by the PTE and Busways.
- I thought the 8, 10, 11, 18, 20 and 99 are the only routes to go back to their pre-Covid frequencies?
- Yeah i can see the 8 going to contract - it's well used, but mainly by concessionary passes and schoolkids. I'd also see the 18A going to a scholars contract if the 18 doesn't.

I thought the 10/11 were every 10/12 mins before the pandemic. 

I wonder if they might change the 3/4 to every 10 mins combined, every 20 mins separately.

(04 Apr 2023, 9:09 am)Unber43 wrote Are SC making a profit?

We'll never know but I wouldn't be surprised for the Northern lot, (it's split between Teesside and the rest) if Newcastle is making a bomb as usual but being dragged down by the rest. South Shields has been a dodgy depot for ages especially since they moved the X34 and E's out the blue in 2019 which are the money makers there.

https://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/stag...elds-96819 - They were talking about 'sustainability' and overheads back then which is never a healthy word to be thrown around.

Would there be any chance than maybe Newcastle aren't making a profit. Or any profit they are making it being lost from the losses at Shields/ Sunderland & Hartlepool, I wonder if SC may just sack off some of the depots which are lost making e.g Shields, possibly Hartlepool (idk how profitable they're)

(04 Apr 2023, 11:19 am)Unber43 wrote I thought the 10/11 were every 10/12 mins before the pandemic. 

I wonder if they might change the 3/4 to every 10 mins combined, every 20 mins separately.

Nope, they were every 15. Have a look at the old route map from 2018:
http://web.archive.org/web/2022072617235...018Nov.pdf

(04 Apr 2023, 11:29 am)Unber43 wrote Would there be any chance than maybe Newcastle aren't making a profit. Or any profit they are making it being lost from the losses at Shields/ Sunderland & Hartlepool, I wonder if SC may just sack off some of the depots which are lost making e.g Shields, possibly Hartlepool (idk how profitable they're)

Who knows, have to wait until the next accounts pretty much. Hartlepool is part of the Teesside company though.

Mind I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Newcastle routes don't do well either. There's some very strong routes like the 38, 39, 40, 62 and 63 but others aren't too strong and have had cuts lately. The 6, 7, 71, 72, 87, X63, X77, X78 and X79 in particular.

(04 Apr 2023, 8:57 pm)Storx wrote Who knows, have to wait until the next accounts pretty much. Hartlepool is part of the Teesside company though.

Mind I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Newcastle routes don't do well either. There's some very strong routes like the 38, 39, 40, 62 and 63 but others aren't too strong and have had cuts lately. The 6, 7, 71, 72, 87, X63, X77, X78 and X79 in particular.

I wonder if GNE cost cutting may actually be quite strategic as they seem to be the only one making cuts in the past 24 monthsn, especially if they know whats happening with SC, to maybe invest/ buy depots which may not be doing well. Perhaps Shields.

(04 Apr 2023, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote I wonder if GNE cost cutting may actually be quite strategic as they seem to be the only one making cuts in the past 24 monthsn, especially if they know whats happening with SC, to maybe invest/ buy depots which may not be doing well. Perhaps Shields.

Wishful thinking.

(04 Apr 2023, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote I wonder if GNE cost cutting may actually be quite strategic as they seem to be the only one making cuts in the past 24 monthsn, especially if they know whats happening with SC, to maybe invest/ buy depots which may not be doing well. Perhaps Shields.

Have a feeling it's more the opposite way round can see GNE pulling out more than anything. 

There's only so much attention GoAhead will give it before they think that's enough.

We don't even know what the new owners are like yet, they could be brutal with loss making areas or might want to really turn it around.

(04 Apr 2023, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote I wonder if GNE cost cutting may actually be quite strategic as they seem to be the only one making cuts in the past 24 monthsn, especially if they know whats happening with SC, to maybe invest/ buy depots which may not be doing well. Perhaps Shields.

I think the issue with Shields depot is, all the services are too frequent basically excluding the 30, X20 and X34. The others are too regular and have more services on long corridors.
For example the 3/4/17/18 all operating from the town centre to West Harton, Boldon Lane, via Stanhope Road.  All services operating every 12 mins giving a bus every few mins for very low numbers of passengers.  This is then complimented with GNE 5 and 50 in addition.

Same with Town Centre to Marsden and the 7/8 every 12 mins with additional services in 10, 11, 12, E1, E2 and E6 all stagecoach.

The service needs to be retained in Shields but perhaps a move back to old timetables of 20/30 min frequencies would be better.  If that means take off the single decks and replace with older double decks being released elsewhere, it may be beneficial.  

At the minute there is not enough passengers to warrant the frequencies and duplicated corridors as regular as they are now

(05 Apr 2023, 7:39 am)ifm001 wrote I think the issue with Shields depot is, all the services are too frequent basically excluding the 30, X20 and X34. The others are too regular and have more services on long corridors.
For example the 3/4/17/18 all operating from the town centre to West Harton, Boldon Lane, via Stanhope Road.  All services operating every 12 mins giving a bus every few mins for very low numbers of passengers.  This is then complimented with GNE 5 and 50 in addition.

Same with Town Centre to Marsden and the 7/8 every 12 mins with additional services in 10, 11, 12, E1, E2 and E6 all stagecoach.

The service needs to be retained in Shields but perhaps a move back to old timetables of 20/30 min frequencies would be better.  If that means take off the single decks and replace with older double decks being released elsewhere, it may be beneficial.  

At the minute there is not enough passengers to warrant the frequencies and duplicated corridors as regular as they are now

I don't think thats just a Shields issue. Its also an issue on the A690 with 23/3/4 or more or less the latter two, they serve similar areas both ends and are every 6 mins combined, on top of the 23 aswell, they are more like every 4 mins.

Where as when GNE did it, it was the 55/X20/20 all went to different areas, and 20 went to Shields aswell.

Seen there's a few tweets on Twitter about confusion of ticket acceptance between Arriva & GNE on the Coast Road routes.

Surely if there's any doubt or the QR codes are only set up for paper tickets, drivers should be instructed to radio control (or in Arriva's case switch off and ring control via mobile).

Makes a whole mockery of the partnership. Should be no grey areas, if ticket is valid (whether return / daily/ weekly / monthly / yearly), in date and in the correct zone, it should be accepted, no excuses!

Can’t think of a better place to put this. Seems the bus operators have realised that franchising is an inevitability and are making positive noises about the prospect…

Bus chief open to struggling North East services being put under mayor's control

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e-26895174

A change of tune?

About time.

(12 May 2023, 7:43 am)markydh wrote Can’t think of a better place to put this. Seems the bus operators have realised that franchising is an inevitability and are making positive noises about the prospect…

Bus chief open to struggling North East services being put under mayor's control

This needs to happen sooner rather than later, we're losing services at a concerning rate, mad how it's taken this long for the companies to realise how much they're losing the fight. I wonder if Stagecoach have a similar opinion now with them considering cutting stuff back in Sunderland.

(12 May 2023, 9:17 am)Rob44 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e-26895174

A change of tune?

I wonder if this was why MG was pushed out left? So they could get someone with more favorable opinions on the matter in the driving seat?

Of course they would. It's guaranteed income for them, at a time that they've ran out of ideas and the market is dying a death.

The sad thing is, it should have happened 10 years ago, instead of all the kicking and screaming that changed nothing.

Maybe the new GNE team are actually being more collaborative than the old regime hence the neutral answer compared to the response from MG.

I actually feel a bit sorry for Stagecoach in all this. They operate a relatively good service and are getting dragged down because GNE and ARRIVA lack commercial acumen.

What happens with the alleged ARRIVA withdrawals and how Stagecoach, GNE or whoever react will be very revealing of where current operators stand and how it will compare to their sister operating companies that have reacted pro-activley to similar operator abandonment elsewhere in the UK.

If they effectively chuck the problem back at NEXUS, I can only see thoughts hardening on franchising. North Tyneside would be an interesting test bed. via the back door.

Mind you, given the colossal mess NEXUS made of QCS and the subsequent fallout, I very much doubt they'd be any better

(12 May 2023, 1:17 pm)Adrian wrote Of course they would. It's guaranteed income for them, at a time that they've ran out of ideas and the market is dying a death.

The sad thing is, it should have happened 10 years ago, instead of all the kicking and screaming that changed nothing. 

I blame Tim and/or Tom Dodds.

(17 Mar 2023, 5:38 pm)deanmachine wrote So why have they put the Day Rover/Explorer up so much if they're introducing these? Or is this just bus?

Edit: Just realised it specifies multi-modal, but still, why put up the Rover/Explorer? Driving away passengers before reducing fares seems backwards.

Explorers are also multi-modal since they're also valid on the Metro and Shields ferry

(12 May 2023, 2:48 pm)DeltaMan wrote Maybe the new GNE team are actually being more collaborative than the old regime hence the neutral answer compared to the response from MG.

I actually feel a bit sorry for Stagecoach in all this. They operate a relatively good service and are getting dragged down because GNE and ARRIVA lack commercial acumen.

What happens with the alleged ARRIVA withdrawals and how Stagecoach, GNE or whoever react will be very revealing of where current operators stand and how it will compare to their sister operating companies that have reacted pro-activley to similar operator abandonment elsewhere in the UK.

If they effectively chuck the problem back at NEXUS, I can only see thoughts hardening on franchising. North Tyneside would be an interesting test bed. via the back door.

Mind you, given the colossal mess NEXUS made of QCS and the subsequent fallout, I very much doubt they'd be any better

I wouldn't exactly give Stagecoach much credit either tbh, the rumours in Sunderland sound as grim as anything the other 2 operators have done. Not to mention they've cut as many services in Tyneside than Arriva and GNE (18/32/32A/35/72).

I'm sure Arriva or GoAhead would be able to do exactly what they had if they had the routes Stagecoach have, literally anyone could run them. Especially the 1/12/22/38/39/40/62/63. They're better than any route GoNorthEast and Arriva have combined other than the 21 in Tyne and Wear.

The sad thing is I can't see Nexus doing anything better. The Metro is nothing short of an absolute farce lately and has been for over a decade now. It's just going from one problem to another. Suppose they could bring back absolutely fantasy ideas like Project Orpheus, ironically they run a subsidised service on the only bit built (19).