Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action

[Panasonic44]

I do agress Nexus needs to more even if its hourly service. For me in Hebburn we do need Stagecoach to help out from Jarrow to Newcastle or Gateshead because the only company GT are crap 8 to 5pm.

The 26 is Nexus service could strip GNE of route and allow Stagecoach to run hourly service would make sense or Aline Coaches .

Regarding Pay, if GNE get same as GNW all other companies in North East will follow suit and will cause more problems.

I think it's shocking that Olderly, people can't drive and disabled and companies don't care.

[LVK 404L]

I do agress Nexus needs to more even if its hourly service. For me in Hebburn we do need Stagecoach to help out from Jarrow to Newcastle or Gateshead because the only company GT are crap 8 to 5pm.

The 26 is Nexus service could strip GNE of route and allow Stagecoach to run hourly service would make sense or Aline Coaches .

Regarding Pay, if GNE get same as GNW all other companies in North East will follow suit and will cause more problems.

I think it's shocking that Olderly, people can't drive and disabled and companies don't care.

The 26 is only partial Nexus isnt it though (evenings onl possibly)

You are correct though that areas without anythimg other than GNE need some sort of assistance.

At least Hebburn has the metro, yes it may be a walk from some parts of Hebburn but it is something.

I have staff work for me who are not able to work from home and live in places such as Kibblesworth  Catchgate and Hetton le Hole who are stranded amd the next 12 weeks or so is going to be very difficult indeed

[Unber43]

6322 was the last bus of 2023 possibly.

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The 26 is only partial Nexus isnt it though (evenings onl possibly)

You are correct though that areas without anythimg other than GNE need some sort of assistance.

At least Hebburn has the metro, yes it may be a walk from some parts of Hebburn but it is something.

I have staff work for me who are not able to work from home and live in places such as Kibblesworth  Catchgate and Hetton le Hole who are stranded amd the next 12 weeks or so is going to be very difficult indeed

The way the metro is going....I think its going to be 12 weeks of hell as theyve got no GNE to fall back on

[Storx]

I 100% disagree that Nexus should do anything personally. The council should not be bailing out commercial routes.

I understand the inconvenience but that's the point of a strike.

[Panasonic44]

The 26 is only partial Nexus isnt it though (evenings onl possibly)

You are correct though that areas without anythimg other than GNE need some sort of assistance.

At least Hebburn has the metro, yes it may be a walk from some parts of Hebburn but it is something.

I have staff work for me who are not able to work from home and live in places such as Kibblesworth  Catchgate and Hetton le Hole who are stranded amd the next 12 weeks or so is going to be very difficult indeed

True hebburn may have metro but alot of times metro delayed or cancelled.  At least as boss you understand however not all companies understand.

I live in Hebburn and its 30mins walking distance is hell after 10hr shift

I thought whole 26 was but you right evening covered by Nexus

[Chris3912]

Can't really disagree with them.

I'm not sure whether the Q3 is subsidised or something but I'm really surprised that keeps going. It's not a busy bus route, ever - especially at the Great Park end of it. Lucky to see double figures on it and the other end is no better. Unless something has changed in the past 10 years, I used to use it from a mates down by far end of the Quayside and pretty much be the only one on the bus.

There's just absolutely no reason for anyone use to it at any point along the Great North Road since it's less frequent and takes a detour via Jesmond.

So what are vulnerable/elderly people in Great Park supposed to do just not have a service for them? Walk all the way to Great North Road? That's a good 30-40 mins walk for some residents. Q3 is the only bus route in Great Park. It's always packed whenever I use it from the Community Centre in the morning.

[j986986]

So what are vulnerable/elderly people in Great Park supposed to do just not have a service for them? Walk all the way to Great North Road? That's a good 30-40 mins walk for some residents. Q3 is the only bus route in Great Park. It's always packed whenever I use it from the Community Centre in the morning.

Yeah, everytime I have used it, it’s always been busy. Especially going down Gosforth High Street and into Jesmond.


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[Storx]

So what are vulnerable/elderly people in Great Park supposed to do just not have a service for them? Walk all the way to Great North Road? That's a good 30-40 mins walk for some residents. Q3 is the only bus route in Great Park. It's always packed whenever I use it from the Community Centre in the morning.

Wasn't saying get shot of it, just surprised GNE still run it commercially when they've been cutting other services when on the ground appear more busy. 

Of course there'd need to be a service to the place, mind I'm surprised the X47 hasn't been extended in yet to serve the bottom half the place and give links to Kingston Park etc but that's another thread.

[BusLoverMum]

6322/6328 could be the last buses to run in 2023

Well, no. They can "only" strike until December 22nd before GNE is allowed to sack them.

[Andreos1]

Well, no. They can "only" strike until December 22nd before GNE is allowed to sack them.

Imagine if the company sacks the strikers! 
They would be in a right pickle then.

But, having seen and heard the behaviour/comments/logic coming out of GNE Towers, nothing would surprise me.

[Shrek]

Wasn't saying get shot of it, just surprised GNE still run it commercially when they've been cutting other services when on the ground appear more busy. 

I can't be 100% certain, but I'm sure they still get money from Great Park to run the route. They certainly used to get a decent amount for it.

[streetdeckfan]

Imagine if the company sacks the strikers! 
They would be in a right pickle then.

But, having seen and heard the behaviour/comments/logic coming out of GNE Towers, nothing would surprise me.

Would they really be in any worse of a situation?

It seems like running the buses is more expensive than not.



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[Storx]

I can't be 100% certain, but I'm sure they still get money from Great Park to run the route. They certainly used to get a decent amount for it.

Aye that was my thoughts aswell, always thought it was partially funded by the Sage but obviously without them there anymore. Wasn't sure if they did anymore.
Not sure if they get anything for the section through Jesmond either as a 33 replacement, similar to Stagecoach with it's 62 extension etc either.

[col87]

Well it seems to me the current management are doing there best to kill off go north east. I do not see this ending very well and if I was Stagecoach Arriva or of the independents i would be using any loophole i could to be setting up services in the areas most affected and trying to do it on an emergency basis with a view to it been permanent and nicking Go North East’s passengers.

In theory you would think Go North East would be doing everything to make it don’t last 12 weeks but i get the impression the current management don’t care to much so i have to wonder if someone higher up from the Go Ahead will eventually step in to try sort something out. Passengers in the meantime are going to make do or find alternatives to get about so while a majority will go back to using them when services are restored they is likely going to be a drop in passengers

[Bazza]

Well it seems to me the current management are doing there best to kill off go north east. I do not see this ending very well and if I was Stagecoach Arriva or of the independents i would be using any loophole i could to be setting up services in the areas most affected and trying to do it on an emergency basis with a view to it been permanent and nicking Go North East’s passengers. 

In theory you would think Go North East would be doing everything to make it don’t last 12 weeks but i get the impression the current management don’t care to much so i have to wonder if someone higher up from the Go Ahead will eventually step in to try sort something out. Passengers in the meantime are going to make do or find alternatives to get about so while a majority will go back to using them when services are restored they is likely going to be a drop in passengers

Other companies simply don’t have the drivers (or buses) to do this

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Would they really be in any worse of a situation?

It seems like running the buses is more expensive than not.



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I’m very suspicious of the losses posted by GNE. 

Given it’s a company within a company and the parent is making money, can it be demonstrated that payments aren’t made to the parent company, that end up pushing the wholly owned company into a loss.  (Payments for services, lease of vehicles or whatever).  

Plus. What has general mismanagement cost?  I’m particularly thinking about the costs associated with the closure of C-le-St?

I have not studied the accounts posted so honestly don’t know.  Can anyone elaborate?

[Bazza]

All those stats are publicly available.

GNE made a loss of £4.5m last year.

GNE drivers received at least a 10% pay rise last year - between 2018 and 2022 there was of course the COVID-19 pandemic which depressed everybody’s pay. 

Go North West drivers do a lot more work in a shift than GNE drivers do in the same shift length - that’s why they get paid more per hour.

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Will his next statement be “loss making GNE closes depots and cuts services”?

I didn’t think UNITE obtained them by underhand means.   Bit of a pointless statement really

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All those stats are publicly available.

GNE made a loss of £4.5m last year.

GNE drivers received at least a 10% pay rise last year - between 2018 and 2022 there was of course the COVID-19 pandemic which depressed everybody’s pay. 

Go North West drivers do a lot more work in a shift than GNE drivers do in the same shift length - that’s why they get paid more per hour.

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Will his next statement be “loss making GNE closes depots and cuts services”?

See my post above

[Bazza]

All those stats are publicly available.

GNE made a loss of £4.5m last year.

GNE drivers received at least a 10% pay rise last year - between 2018 and 2022 there was of course the COVID-19 pandemic which depressed everybody’s pay. 

Go North West drivers do a lot more work in a shift than GNE drivers do in the same shift length - that’s why they get paid more per hour.

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Will his next statement be “loss making GNE closes depots and cuts services”?

And by extension job losses.  

Remember that GNE provide a service that cannot be outsourced to cheaper countries, they need the employees here. 

Job losses would mean, by and large, redundancies,  I can guarantee that there will be drivers and engineers happy to take their payments and leave the industry, whether because they are nearing retirement or just happy to go and try something else. 

Because of the high staff turn over, there will be a number of staff who were planning on leaving anyway regardless of redundancies.

There will be drivers and engineers who will find work at other operators quite quickly just to fill current vacancies due to the shortages currently being experienced.

If GNE shuts depot(s) and cuts routes, there will be other operators step in to take on routes they could see as profitable, and routes that Nexus and councils will have to keep running.  Again creating more jobs for displaced drivers and engineers.  

So if I was currently a GNE driver I could see the current dispute as a bit of a gamble, with either a vastly improved renumeration package or at worse a move to another operator ( in the case of ANE and Stagecoach) with a slightly better package that I now have. 

With the current driver shortage, it is likely the only ones left unemployed are those who possibly shouldn’t be employed in the first place. 

And of course managers and ancillary staff.

I know this is a simplistic view.  But quite an accurate one I think.

[Adrian]

I 100% disagree that Nexus should do anything personally. The council should not be bailing out commercial routes.

I understand the inconvenience but that's the point of a strike.

I agree with the sentiment of this, but I do think Nexus should be doing something; they should be urgently reviewing any contract/secured service work that Go North East is contracted to deliver, and either terminating it due to non-performance, or look to put it out to emergency tender.

Remember when GCT were in this situation a year or so ago, with not having the ability to deliver what they'd signed up to? Everyone was calling for their heads then.

Well, no. They can "only" strike until December 22nd before GNE is allowed to sack them.

Although, at least to my understanding of the law, there'd be nothing stopping them returning to work briefly and then entering another period of industrial action.

I don't think that rule has ever been tested either. I'm not sure what GNE would gain from going down that route, as they'd be in the same position; no drivers to drive their buses.

I’m very suspicious of the losses posted by GNE. 

Given it’s a company within a company and the parent is making money, can it be demonstrated that payments aren’t made to the parent company, that end up pushing the wholly owned company into a loss.  (Payments for services, lease of vehicles or whatever).  

Plus. What has general mismanagement cost?  I’m particularly thinking about the costs associated with the closure of C-le-St?

I have not studied the accounts posted so honestly don’t know.  Can anyone elaborate?

The loss was £1.9m, pre-exceptional items. The figure they're keep quoting (£4.3m) includes £2.98m of exceptional items. This is an exceptional spend/not part of the company's day-to-day profit/loss, as it's not an annual commitment.

   

I suppose it's a bit like if you have to replace your boiler one year. Might cost you a couple thousand to do it, but you don't have to do it every year.

[Storx]

And by extension job losses.  

Remember that GNE provide a service that cannot be outsourced to cheaper countries, they need the employees here. 

Job losses would mean, by and large, redundancies,  I can guarantee that there will be drivers and engineers happy to take their payments and leave the industry, whether because they are nearing retirement or just happy to go and try something else. 

Because of the high staff turn over, there will be a number of staff who were planning on leaving anyway regardless of redundancies.

There will be drivers and engineers who will find work at other operators quite quickly just to fill current vacancies due to the shortages currently being experienced.

If GNE shuts depot(s) and cuts routes, there will be other operators step in to take on routes they could see as profitable, and routes that Nexus and councils will have to keep running.  Again creating more jobs for displaced drivers and engineers.  

So if I was currently a GNE driver I could see the current dispute as a bit of a gamble, with either a vastly improved renumeration package or at worse a move to another operator ( in the case of ANE and Stagecoach) with a slightly better package that I now have. 

With the current driver shortage, it is likely the only ones left unemployed are those who possibly shouldn’t be employed in the first place. 

And of course managers and ancillary staff.

I know this is a simplistic view.  But quite an accurate one I think.

Not to mention with the very heavily linked upcoming franchising coming into play, someone like First or Rotala might fancy a depot up here so when they come around they have a foot in the door to go for something bigger.

Ironically what GoNorthWest done pretty much.

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I agree with the sentiment of this, but I do think Nexus should be doing something; they should be urgently reviewing any contract/secured service work that Go North East is contracted to deliver, and either terminating it due to non-performance, or look to put it out to emergency tender.

Remember when GCT were in this situation a year or so ago, with not having the ability to deliver what they'd signed up to? Everyone was calling for their heads then.

Yeah agreed with the contract work, same with Co. Durham to be fair. Similar to what Northumberland County Council have done in Hexham pretty much. The suggestions seemed to be to tender out stuff to cover the likes of the 20, 56 and X1 though.

[Unber43]

Not to mention with the very heavily linked upcoming franchising coming into play, someone like First or Rotala might fancy a depot up here so when they come around they have a foot in the door to go for something bigger.

Ironically what GoNorthWest done pretty much.

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Yeah agreed with the contract work, same with Co. Durham to be fair. Similar to what Northumberland County Council have done in Hexham pretty much. The suggestions seemed to be to tender out stuff to cover the likes of the 20, 56 and X1 though.

Yeah because you want Rotala up here, you know the company where wheels fall of their buses half way through service, safety concerns ignored. 

Would companies be willing to cross the Picket Line, while theyre suffering a shortage too