(09 Nov 2023, 9:13 am)Thomas12 wrote Just when I thought they (or specifically Ben Maxfield) couldn’t get any worse. Embarrassing

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/gonortheas...fer-474999

Jesus Christ.

They are intent on going down this insanely destructive path.

A survey of 500 people, no info on their background, politics, if they are a bus user? 

Utter nonsense. The sooner the lot of them at Bensham are sacked the better

(09 Nov 2023, 9:23 am)Ambassador wrote Jesus Christ.

They are intent on going down this insanely destructive path.

A survey of 500 people, no info on their background, politics, if they are a bus user? 

Utter nonsense. The sooner the lot of them at Bensham are sacked the better

According to the council website, Gateshead alone has a population of approximately 196000.

A survey of 500 people covers just 0.26% of that, and that's just of Gateshead. Not exactly a huge sample size.

(09 Nov 2023, 9:47 am)mb134 wrote According to the council website, Gateshead alone has a population of approximately 196000.

A survey of 500 people covers just 0.26% of that, and that's just of Gateshead. Not exactly a huge sample size.

They've made changes to routes and services based on a similar proportion. 

There was one famous night when the long-gone/never seen eazypeazy tried to defend sample sizes.
Quoted some books/stats/models at him/her and we didn't see much of them again.

But getting back to the main topic; it's quite remarkable they would go to so much trouble in hiring in and procuring the use of a research company and then use such a small proportion of the public to pin their hat on.

How much of the £238k was spent on this research? Can't see it being free.

I'm really confused at why a company who isn't playing games of brinkmanship is getting involved with political polling companies.

Talk about pissing money down a drain, pathetic management by a pathetic company.

Notice all the GoNorthEast fan boys have gone into hiding recently mind...

(09 Nov 2023, 10:21 am)Storx wrote I'm really confused at why a company who isn't playing games of brinkmanship is getting involved with political polling companies.

Talk about pissing money down a drain, pathetic management by a pathetic company.

Notice all the GoNorthEast fan boys have gone into hiding recently mind...

I think in GNE's employees defence (at least those still working) they are staying quiet for sensible reasons

(09 Nov 2023, 10:40 am)Ambassador wrote I think in GNE's employees defence (at least those still working) they are staying quiet for sensible reasons

Best to keep a dignified silence and let these idiots tie themselves up in knots. I love the way Ben quotes himself in third person. Also wasn’t he babbling the other day about running school contracts this contradicts that.

Imagine a running a business and trying your damnedest to turn the public against your own employees? Embarrassing.

As with most of these independent polls, those who commission them rarely talk about who they've asked or the questions they've asked, instead focusing on the answers they want. We all know that you can phrase a question to get the answer you want.

(09 Nov 2023, 9:13 am)Thomas12 wrote Just when I thought they (or specifically Ben Maxfield) couldn’t get any worse. Embarrassing

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/gonortheas...fer-474999

They paid someone to come up with these stats when you could just get the idea of the publics mood/thoughts just by reading any Facebook post in relation to the strike. Not surprised people aren't supportive either, considering they're the ones getting screwed over by it, people only generally care about their own situations, not that of a company and its employees.

The whole situation now, especially this move comes across as overgrown children throwing their toys out of the pram because they ain't getting their own way, literally every time its brought up, it's only ever about the rise in pay whilst the conditions never get a look in which is partly as to why the strike is happening in the first play, It's all mind games.

(09 Nov 2023, 11:38 am)Adrian wrote Imagine a running a business and trying your damnedest to turn the public against your own employees? Embarrassing.

As with most of these independent polls, those who commission them rarely talk about who they've asked or the questions they've asked, instead focusing on the answers they want. We all know that you can phrase a question to get the answer you want.

Right, can someone please explain what the strike is actually for without all the left wing political bull that this thread has devolved into?
Quite frankly I don't believe a word that comes out of either side's mouth

Is it about the pay?
Is it about the conditions?
Is it about not being the same as Manchester?
Is it because Unite are a bunch of attention seeking [redacted]?
Is it because the drivers want a few weeks off with minimal impact to their bank account?

Irony - gne urges unite to come back to the table to negotiate despite gne saying during the last talks it may be January before they will be able to talk again.

Stats can be slanted whichever way you want. Did they do this survey at gala bingo on grab a granny night where the patrons were hacked off at having to make alternative arrangements to get there at their own cost I wonder?

The management at gne, particularly that directly attributed to drivers has for the most part always been staffed by petty arseholes who’d write you up for daring to have a hi viz on display even out of service, or send a leading driver chasing after you in a van because you dared to run a service on time, but they wanted to talk to you before you left which would make you late departing your servuce. but say there’s nothing they can do when buses are cold as a witches tit in winter, or do nothing to protect or assist drivers when they actually need it. Reap what you sow.

Whats the point in strikes, it just delays the invevitable, they discuss, it breaks down, threaten to strike, new deal, rejected, strike for longer, deal, rejected more strikes...finally the deal they wanted in the first place

(09 Nov 2023, 12:26 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Right, can someone please explain what the strike is actually for without all the left wing political bull that this thread has devolved into?
Quite frankly I don't believe a word that comes out of either side's mouth

Is it about the pay?
Is it about the conditions?
Is it about not being the same as Manchester?
Is it because Unite are a bunch of attention seeking [redacted]?
Is it because the drivers want a few weeks off with minimal impact to their bank account?

 Not an expert ( Like you)  but

Yes
yes
More like closrer so not a 20% gap
No
No

Hope that helps

(09 Nov 2023, 12:29 pm)Unber43 wrote Whats the point in strikes, it just delays the invevitable, they discuss, it breaks down, threaten to strike, new deal, rejected, strike for longer, deal, rejected more strikes...finally the deal they wanted in the first place

To apply pressure by turning the public against them.

It's funny to see how it's perfectly fine for the unions to do this, but when the companies do exactly the same thing back it's bad.

---

(09 Nov 2023, 12:30 pm)Rob44 wrote  Not an expert ( Like you)  but

Yes
yes
More like closrer so not a 20% gap
No
No

Hope that helps

Surprisingly, it doesn't!

I was actually being serious, I've completely lost track of what this is supposed to be for.

Every news article and post I read about it, both sides are saying something different.

(09 Nov 2023, 9:13 am)Thomas12 wrote Just when I thought they (or specifically Ben Maxfield) couldn’t get any worse. Embarrassing

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/gonortheas...fer-474999

I'd love to know who they asked and where and what the questions were.

I'm almost universally seeing people saying that they're struggling logistically and financially with the lack of buses but they support the drivers.

(09 Nov 2023, 12:32 pm)streetdeckfan wrote To apply pressure by turning the public against them.

It's funny to see how it's perfectly fine for the unions to do this, but when the companies do exactly the same thing back it's bad.

What a load of nonsense. You know fine well that it's the responsibility of the company to provide the service that they've committed to delivering, whether that be their own commercial offerings or the public sector work they've signed a contract to take on. If they've pushed their workforce to the point that they're out on strike, then that is also their responsibility to resolve.

Nobody wants to go out on strike. It's an absolute last resort, because even when it's 'resolved', there's often months if not years of animosity to deal with, both amongst the workforce and between management & workers. No Union ever calls a strike with the sole aim to disrupt the public, but it's unavoidable in some sectors.

The difference here is that you have a company putting out propaganda and frankly outrageous statements, whereas the Union is simply continuing it's strike action. If you take the rose-tinted glasses off for a second, you'll see how blatant it is that GNE are trying to win a dispute by creating a culture war. It's an absolutely ridiculous way to behave, when at the end of the day, those Union members out on strike are still their employees.

(09 Nov 2023, 12:41 pm)Adrian wrote What a load of nonsense. You know fine well that it's the responsibility of the company to provide the service that they've committed to delivering, whether that be their own commercial offerings or the public sector work they've signed a contract to take on. If they've pushed their workforce to the point that they're out on strike, then that is also their responsibility to resolve.

Nobody wants to go out on strike. It's an absolute last resort, because even when it's 'resolved', there's often months if not years of animosity to deal with, both amongst the workforce and between management & workers. No Union ever calls a strike with the sole aim to disrupt the public, but it's unavoidable in some sectors.

The difference here is that you have a company putting out propaganda and frankly outrageous statements, whereas the Union is simply continuing it's strike action. If you take the rose-tinted glasses off for a second, you'll see how blatant it is that GNE are trying to win a dispute by creating a culture war. It's an absolutely ridiculous way to behave, when at the end of the day, those Union members out on strike are still their employees.

And that leaflet posted by Unite wasn't a load of propaganda?
Both sides are as bad as each other.

As for the strike being a last resort, I'm not buying that, if Unite weren't handing out cash to the drivers do you think they'd have voted for the strike? 
While the drivers are obviously suffering a financial loss going on strike, it's nowhere near as bad as they'd want you to think.

As I've said before, GNE have absolutely no incentive to give in to the demands.
They're already making a loss, they don't even have enough money to pay the drivers their current wages never mind more. Sure the group that owns them are making absolute bank, but why would they hand out cash to little GNE that's only going to go down the drain.
Surely from the group's point of view they're better off cutting their losses?

Even if GNE give in and give them whatever pay rise they want, where is that money going to come from? Seriously?

They can't increase their fares because of the £2 cap.
Day ticket prices (which I believe make up a substantial proportion of their income, although I'm happy to be corrected) are being slashed with the new TNE tickets.
Passenger numbers still aren't back to 'normal'.
They're running near end of life buses on front line services, with no funds to replace them.

So again I ask, where does the money come from?

The only answer I can think of is cuts to services. And what happens when they cut services, they don't need as many drivers.

Now, maybe my Tory brain is too smooth to understand, so I'm being genuine here when I ask, how do you envisage them getting out of this pickle they're in?

(09 Nov 2023, 1:30 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Even if GNE give in and give them whatever pay rise they want, where is that money going to come from? Seriously?

They can't increase their fares because of the £2 cap.
Day ticket prices (which I believe make up a substantial proportion of their income, although I'm happy to be corrected) are being slashed with the new TNE tickets.
Passenger numbers still aren't back to 'normal'.
They're running near end of life buses on front line services, with no funds to replace them.

So again I ask, where does the money come from?

Aren't companies receiving money to bridge the difference between their day ticket prices and these new TNE tickets, through BSIP? 

Equally with the £2 singles aren't they being, at least somewhat, reimbursed by the government for that?

(09 Nov 2023, 1:30 pm)streetdeckfan wrote And that leaflet posted by Unite wasn't a load of propaganda?
Both sides are as bad as each other.

As for the strike being a last resort, I'm not buying that, if Unite weren't handing out cash to the drivers do you think they'd have voted for the strike? 
While the drivers are obviously suffering a financial loss going on strike, it's nowhere near as bad as they'd want you to think.

As I've said before, GNE have absolutely no incentive to give in to the demands.
They're already making a loss, they don't even have enough money to pay the drivers their current wages never mind more. Sure the group that owns them are making absolute bank, but why would they hand out cash to little GNE that's only going to go down the drain.
Surely from the group's point of view they're better off cutting their losses?

Even if GNE give in and give them whatever pay rise they want, where is that money going to come from? Seriously?

They can't increase their fares because of the £2 cap.
Day ticket prices (which I believe make up a substantial proportion of their income, although I'm happy to be corrected) are being slashed with the new TNE tickets.
Passenger numbers still aren't back to 'normal'.
They're running near end of life buses on front line services, with no funds to replace them.

So again I ask, where does the money come from?

The only answer I can think of is cuts to services. And what happens when they cut services, they don't need as many drivers.

Now, maybe my Tory brain is too smooth to understand, so I'm being genuine here when I ask, how do you envisage them getting out of this pickle they're in?

There won't be a bus service until GoNorthEast back their demands, it's as simple as that. A large chunk of drivers wouldn't give a toss if they got made redundant, they'd walk along to the nearest Stagecoach, Arriva or whoever replaces the buses GoNorthEast have scrapped and get the exact same job with a nice bonus to boot.

There's no loyalty to GoNorthEast, it's a shit company to work for, unlike on this forum. They don't care if buses don't run, they don't care if Betty can't get to the shops, they don't care if Ben Maxfield got sacked tomorrow, they don't care about GoNorthEast full stop. They just want a better wage to cover up the shit they have to put up with.

GoAhead getting arid of GoNorthEast and sending Ben Maxfield and the rest of the management to Manchester would be the best to happen for North East bus transport. They've been the worst operator up here for awhile but gullable people on here have been missing everything because they had an open day, painted a few buses or updated a few fleetlists to keep people about with a lot of whataboutery why other North East operators are worse.

(09 Nov 2023, 1:34 pm)mb134 wrote Aren't companies receiving money to bridge the difference between their day ticket prices and these new TNE tickets, through BSIP? 

Equally with the £2 singles aren't they being, at least somewhat, reimbursed by the government for that?

Perhaps, but would that money include the increased cost as a result of the pay rise to drivers? Could they hike the prices to the government the same way they can hike them for passengers to cover the cost?

---

(09 Nov 2023, 1:36 pm)Storx wrote There won't be a bus service until GoNorthEast back their demands, it's as simple as that. A large chunk of drivers wouldn't give a toss if they got made redundant, they'd walk along to the nearest Stagecoach, Arriva or whoever replaces the buses GoNorthEast have scrapped and get the exact same job with a nice bonus to boot.

There's no loyalty to GoNorthEast, it's a shit company to work for, unlike on this forum. They don't care if buses don't run, they don't care if Betty can't get to the shops, they don't care if Ben Maxfield got sacked tomorrow, they don't care about GoNorthEast full stop. They just want a better wage to cover up the shit they have to put up with.

Would they though?

Lets say GNE go bust, there would then be 'over 2000' people looking for a job. 
There would be absolutely no incentive for Stagecoach or Arriva to offer any bonuses to join. In fact, they could probably pay them less because the drivers have no choice. 

That's simple supply and demand.

(09 Nov 2023, 1:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Perhaps, but would that money include the increased cost as a result of the pay rise to drivers? Could they hike the prices to the government the same way they can hike them for passengers to cover the cost?

---

Would they though?

Lets say GNE go bust, there would then be 'over 2000' people looking for a job. 
There would be absolutely no incentive for Stagecoach or Arriva to offer any bonuses to join. In fact, they could probably pay them less because the drivers have no choice. 

That's simple supply and demand.

If GNE went "bust" would that have a negative effect on the Go ahead group as a whole?

Alos forgive my ignorance but if GNE went bust wouldnt another company come in and buy up its assest on the cheap and re employe the workforce?  May MA buses - or somthing?

(09 Nov 2023, 1:30 pm)streetdeckfan wrote And that leaflet posted by Unite wasn't a load of propaganda?
Both sides are as bad as each other.

As for the strike being a last resort, I'm not buying that, if Unite weren't handing out cash to the drivers do you think they'd have voted for the strike? 
While the drivers are obviously suffering a financial loss going on strike, it's nowhere near as bad as they'd want you to think.

As I've said before, GNE have absolutely no incentive to give in to the demands.
They're already making a loss, they don't even have enough money to pay the drivers their current wages never mind more. Sure the group that owns them are making absolute bank, but why would they hand out cash to little GNE that's only going to go down the drain.
Surely from the group's point of view they're better off cutting their losses?

Even if GNE give in and give them whatever pay rise they want, where is that money going to come from? Seriously?

They can't increase their fares because of the £2 cap.
Day ticket prices (which I believe make up a substantial proportion of their income, although I'm happy to be corrected) are being slashed with the new TNE tickets.
Passenger numbers still aren't back to 'normal'.
They're running near end of life buses on front line services, with no funds to replace them.

So again I ask, where does the money come from?

The only answer I can think of is cuts to services. And what happens when they cut services, they don't need as many drivers.

Now, maybe my Tory brain is too smooth to understand, so I'm being genuine here when I ask, how do you envisage them getting out of this pickle they're in?

Why should going on strike be down to an affordability test? Are you suggesting that workers shouldn't go on strike, unless they financially bankrupt themselves in the process? Workers have often received solidarity for going on strike, whether that be in the form of collections, meals or whatever else. It's just a lot more organised in the digital age. It doesn't make it any less of a last resort, unless you're suggesting people don't just want to go out and earn an honest wage for an honest day's work?

You keep bringing up the 'affordability' of meeting the demands, yet you won't seem to acknowledge that it's the management of the company that set the business strategy and their plan for growth. The workforce simply deliver the plan that has been set. If they can't afford the most basic of pay rises, which isn't even 1% above what inflation was on the review date, then the failing is on them. Do you think they've been crying poverty to all the service providers they use, e.g. energy, fuel, parts, sectors we know that have raised prices way above the level of inflation? 

Again, losses are being mentioned, but the bulk of the losses are from the cost of restructuring. The accounts tell you this, if you read beyond the figure that GNE management are spouting out. 

Which part of the Unite leaflet (assuming you're referring to the 'Help get your buses back on the road' one) do you find biased or misleading? I've got a copy in front of me that I picked up the other day. One side appears to tell people what their priorities should be, the other explains who is out on strike?!

(09 Nov 2023, 1:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Perhaps, but would that money include the increased cost as a result of the pay rise to drivers? Could they hike the prices to the government the same way they can hike them for passengers to cover the cost?

---

Would they though?

Lets say GNE go bust, there would then be 'over 2000' people looking for a job. 
There would be absolutely no incentive for Stagecoach or Arriva to offer any bonuses to join. In fact, they could probably pay them less because the drivers have no choice. 

That's simple supply and demand.

Yeah, if GNE went bust (highly doubt that mind), then some other operator would just buy the fleet and depots on the cheap and pretty much start up it up again. Stuff like the 10, 20, 21, 56, 58, X1 would go in a heartbeat.

I'd be pretty confident that Arriva would be extremely interested in the 21, 307, 309, Q3 and X21 and I'd be pretty confident Stagecoach would be interested in the Hexham operations, Sunderland local operations and South Tyneside operations to dominate their respective areas, if they could get them on the cheap. The rest who knows but someone would, maybe Rotala (got help us) or someone else might fancy a go in the area.

You just have to look at how quick Stagecoach jumped on pretty marginal services in the Arriva 52 and 55 when they had a chance.

With regards to the if the company went bust where would the drivers go comment, I'd bet most would pick a different job role.

When I was there people left and went on to HGV driving (not sure if there is the same shortage of those now). I know of a couple that jumped to different operators but they were in the minority. Staff turnover was fairly high. Honestly, don't think I'd go back to it. Leaving (or being made redundant due to our pay rise last year which made my contract loss making to put it truthfully - imagine if it happens again after these pay talks) has opened my eyes to a world outside the industry.

This, along with the chronic shortage of people wanting to do the job (pretty much throughout the country) should give some indication as to what the job is like.

(09 Nov 2023, 12:26 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Right, can someone please explain what the strike is actually for without all the left wing political bull that this thread has devolved into?
Quite frankly I don't believe a word that comes out of either side's mouth

I'm not sure what is left wing on this thread? Most of it has been attacking the people management culture (from a professional insight point of view vs anything political)

I think it's quite clear you support the company however (which is your right of course)

We are talking about the 3rd largest employer in the region. It's needs and services won't just disappear.

(09 Nov 2023, 9:13 am)Thomas12 wrote Just when I thought they (or specifically Ben Maxfield) couldn’t get any worse. Embarrassing

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/gonortheas...fer-474999

Didn’t take long for more communication about the ‘independent’ survey.

(09 Nov 2023, 2:50 pm)Thomas12 wrote Didn’t take long for more communication about the ‘independent’ survey.

I'd say that is classic intimidation. Trying to coax drivers into doing something, with emotional blackmail like suggesting 'the public have no sympathy for you'. 

I hope the Union consider it urgently and recommend their members raise grievances against man-child Ben.

(09 Nov 2023, 3:01 pm)Adrian wrote I'd say that is classic intimidation. Trying to coax drivers into doing something, with emotional blackmail like suggesting 'the public have no sympathy for you'. 

I hope the Union consider it urgently and recommend their members raise grievances against man-child Ben.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ben is being used as the signatory for NF statements, rather than typing them up himself.

(09 Nov 2023, 3:36 pm)RobinHood wrote I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ben is being used as the signatory for NF statements, rather than typing them up himself.

I 100% agree actually, but if he's daft enough to sign things off in his name...

(09 Nov 2023, 12:36 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I'd love to know who they asked and where and what the questions were.

I'm almost universally seeing people saying that they're struggling logistically and financially with the lack of buses but they support the drivers.

"OK, ChatGPT, give me 500 different responses about a major bus strike."

While i think that communication from GNE with the survey results is terrible, I have noticed the longer the strikes have been going on, the more negativity I'm hearing regarding the drivers and union stance, even from left wing friends which surprised me.

I guess those headline figures for the pay rise look good to people who work for the NHS, government, private companies which have got nowhere near double figures. Unless you read this forum or know drivers, not many will understand the other concerns.

The majority of people I speak to and online views I read still have Go North East as enemy number 1, but I do think the longer this drags out, the less sympathy people have for the drivers.

As for the question on Unite, they are partially thinking of their drivers, but anyone who thinks unions are 100% focused on getting the best for the people they represent are wrong. There is a political element to this and what works best politically for the union is always their number one priority.