I thought seeing as it has come up in many threads, that it is an important discussion that I feel deserves it own thread.

The main SNE problems imo have arisen from the 'Stagecoach Expansion' and big PVR increase since covid with the 317, 685, 62 (extension), 38 (extension), 37 and soon to be 63 (extension which needs extra resource too). As well as having the same frequencies of routes (mostly). This has meant that increasingly the double decker routes which get allocated singles can get away with a single throughout the day but definitely not at peaks on any of em.

I have had some bad experiences as a passenger with overcrowding on buses the 62/63 being the worst.... Can anyone think of any ways this can be rectified without reducing the needed PVRs? I'm guessing more deckers acquired from elsewhere is the sensible option financially.

I'm interested to know you're thoughts and any experiences. 

(18 Sep 2023, 10:50 pm)logidoodah wrote I thought seeing as it has come up in many threads, that it is an important discussion that I feel deserves it own thread.

The main SNE problems imo have arisen from the 'Stagecoach Expansion' and big PVR increase since covid with the 317, 685, 62 (extension), 38 (extension), 37 and soon to be 63 (extension which needs extra resource too). As well as having the same frequencies of routes (mostly). This has meant that increasingly the double decker routes which get allocated singles can get away with a single throughout the day but definitely not at peaks on any of em.

I have had some bad experiences as a passenger with overcrowding on buses the 62/63 being the worst.... Can anyone think of any ways this can be rectified without reducing the needed PVRs? I'm guessing more deckers acquired from elsewhere is the sensible option financially.

I'm interested to know you're thoughts and any experiences. 

The 63 isn’t really an extension more just a re routing as it’s pulled out of chapel house and sent to Callerton instead. The issue on Killys at least has came from the fact Slatyford only have 17 E400MMCs, and as of the last set of changes now run 21 RTCs on the 62/63 Mon-Sat meaning the shortfall has to be covered by E200MMCs spared from the Benwell services staying at the reduced every 20 each service.

I would say what’s needed is some more deckers preferably MMCs so that Slatyford are able to at least have a chance of allocating 21 MMCs.


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I mean does the 18 need a DD to be on all day, likewise the same could be said for the 12, surely the short 12 and the 18 could interwork at Walker giving the so called 'required' DD for the schools, but the 12 did just fine for years with singles on it

(19 Sep 2023, 12:21 pm)V514DFT wrote I mean does the 18 need a DD to be on all day, likewise the same could be said for the 12, surely the short 12 and the 18 could interwork at Walker giving the so called 'required' DD for the schools, but the 12 did just fine for years with singles on it

While it doesn't need them on every working, the 18 is now Nexus-supported and the required capacity on said tender dictates the use of deckers all day.
Also, as has been stated, it is Slatyford that have the issue with singles on the 62/63 - whereas Walkergate run the 12 and 18. Walkergate haven't got any issues with their few remaining 62/63 boards - indeed, both of their boards are E400 allocated today.

(19 Sep 2023, 12:29 pm)Kuyoyo wrote While it doesn't need them on every working, the 18 is now Nexus-supported and the required capacity on said tender dictates the use of deckers all day.
Also, as has been stated, it is Slatyford that have the issue with singles on the 62/63 - whereas Walkergate run the 12 and 18. Walkergate haven't got any issues with their few remaining 62/63 boards - indeed, both of their boards are E400 allocated today.

It seems almost every 63 I travel on is a E200MMC in front was a 62 also single as well. Seems something needs to happen! What’s the split between Walkergate & Slatyford on 62/62

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(19 Sep 2023, 4:17 pm)Coastliner700 wrote It seems almost every 63 I travel on is a E200MMC in front was a 62 also single as well. Seems something needs to happen! What’s the split between Walkergate & Slatyford on 62/62

Going on bustimes.org 9 E200MMCs on 62/63 today!

Only thing i can think on then is have all single decker routes at one depot, and double deckers at the other depot

The 30/31 really needs high capacity singles or a few deckers. Back in the day it used to have Olympians of course.

The 685 also looks extremely cosy on some Newcastle boards as well

(18 Sep 2023, 10:50 pm)logidoodah wrote I thought seeing as it has come up in many threads, that it is an important discussion that I feel deserves it own thread.

The main SNE problems imo have arisen from the 'Stagecoach Expansion' and big PVR increase since covid with the 317, 685, 62 (extension), 38 (extension), 37 and soon to be 63 (extension which needs extra resource too). As well as having the same frequencies of routes (mostly). This has meant that increasingly the double decker routes which get allocated singles can get away with a single throughout the day but definitely not at peaks on any of em.

I have had some bad experiences as a passenger with overcrowding on buses the 62/63 being the worst.... Can anyone think of any ways this can be rectified without reducing the needed PVRs? I'm guessing more deckers acquired from elsewhere is the sensible option financially.

I'm interested to know you're thoughts and any experiences. 

As I've started commuting into newcastle again this week I have noticed a sharp rise in the amount of single deckers on the 62/63 , im not sure when but stagecoach Oxford are getting electric buses and they have a batch of 20 I think 16 reg MMCs which are virtually identical to the newcastle ones, I think if SNE got them and allocated them to walkergate and slatyford it would solve this problem. I think a solution would be if  slatyford received 10 more double decks and cascaded 8 of its eldest single decks

(28 Nov 2023, 10:47 am)toward6931 wrote As I've started commuting into newcastle again this week I have noticed a sharp rise in the amount of single deckers on the 62/63 , im not sure when but stagecoach Oxford are getting electric buses and they have a batch of 20 I think 16 reg MMCs which are virtually identical to the newcastle ones, I think if SNE got them and allocated them to walkergate and slatyford it would solve this problem. I think a solution would be if  slatyford received 10 more double decks and cascaded 8 of its eldest single decks

I have been very unlucky with my travel this week...4 times I went for a 62/63 and it was full to the brim. They are a stupid allocation and sure a smmall bus is better than no bus...like you say any double deckers atm would help. They could then send some stuff to stockton/hartlepool to help there or south shields with the 397'ss.

It doesn't help that you get a 72 linked to a scholars and an 11 too which do not need deckers in the slightest.

(29 Nov 2023, 12:48 am)logidoodah wrote I have been very unlucky with my travel this week...4 times I went for a 62/63 and it was full to the brim. They are a stupid allocation and sure a smmall bus is better than no bus...like you say any double deckers atm would help. They could then send some stuff to stockton/hartlepool to help there or south shields with the 397'ss.

It doesn't help that you get a 72 linked to a scholars and an 11 too which do not need deckers in the slightest.

You've also got the 2 685 boards which are now allocated deckers. Hopefully we get another order of E400s next year to directly replace some singles in Newcastle.

(29 Nov 2023, 12:48 am)logidoodah wrote I have been very unlucky with my travel this week...4 times I went for a 62/63 and it was full to the brim. They are a stupid allocation and sure a smmall bus is better than no bus...like you say any double deckers atm would help. They could then send some stuff to stockton/hartlepool to help there or south shields with the 397'ss.

It doesn't help that you get a 72 linked to a scholars and an 11 too which do not need deckers in the slightest.

There is also a 31 allocated a decker as well! I saw an E200 today on a 62 journey. Same as the 18 which has 2 deckers allocated that I don’t see is necessary maybe a school times but not the entire day. At best an E300 would be fine. Those deckers from the 18 could be allocated to other routes that it’s needed. As for the 62-63 problem it’s a nightmare and needs addressing.

(30 Nov 2023, 5:58 pm)Coastliner700 wrote There is also a 31 allocated a decker as well! I saw an E200 today on a 62 journey. Same as the 18 which has 2 deckers allocated that I don’t see is necessary maybe a school times but not the entire day. At best an E300 would be fine. Those deckers from the 18 could be allocated to other routes that it’s needed. As for the 62-63 problem it’s a nightmare and needs addressing.

The 18 is contracted for deckers.

(30 Nov 2023, 6:15 pm)Storx wrote The 18 is contracted for deckers.

Yes I know we go round and round! It’s just my opinion regardless it’s a waste! Apart from a few journeys in the afternoon and morning peaks it is a waste

If bus times is to be believed 24110,24113,26063,26065,26066,26069,26075,26078,26080,27243,27252,27253,36471 have all been on the 62/63 at some point today- ridiculous for a double decker service. And the fact Walkergate have far too many singles too- although some of them are due to be replaced by the new E400MMCs there is still a huge shortage of deckers between the Newcastle depots.

(30 Nov 2023, 8:30 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote If bus times is to be believed 24110,24113,26063,26065,26066,26069,26075,26078,26080,27243,27252,27253,36471 have all been on the 62/63 at some point today- ridiculous for a double decker service. And the fact Walkergate have far too many singles too- although some of them are due to be replaced by the new E400MMCs there is still a huge shortage of deckers between the Newcastle depots.

It doesn't help that Slatyford have way to many decker allocations. 30/31/10/11/36/72/685/All the X services all have deckers so there all over the place at the moment

(30 Nov 2023, 8:40 pm)Aaron21 wrote It doesn't help that Slatyford have way to many decker allocations. 30/31/10/11/36/72/685/All the X services all have deckers so there all over the place at the moment

Slightly related I tried counting seats on the singles, a standard MMC single has 40 seats, whilst one of the E300s I counted had more. I know some of the E300s have differing internal layouts but I think the difference was about 8 seats.

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(30 Nov 2023, 8:30 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote If bus times is to be believed 24110,24113,26063,26065,26066,26069,26075,26078,26080,27243,27252,27253,36471 have all been on the 62/63 at some point today- ridiculous for a double decker service. And the fact Walkergate have far too many singles too- although some of them are due to be replaced by the new E400MMCs there is still a huge shortage of deckers between the Newcastle depots.

I thought that walkergate only had an increased reserve of singles was because of the hybrids reliability

(01 Dec 2023, 8:49 am)toward6931 wrote Slightly related I tried counting seats on the singles, a standard MMC single has 40 seats, whilst one of the E300s I counted had more. I know some of the E300s have differing internal layouts but I think the difference was about 8 seats.

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I thought that walkergate only had an increased reserve of singles was because of the hybrids reliability

Normal E300 has 42-44 seats. The only ones with 48 are the 5 05-plate long ones (27506-10)

This not partially because of the GNE strike?

The 22, in particular, which is usually riddled with singles really can't cope with them now it's the only bus route to Cobalt and the only bus route through Howden etc.

Similar for the 12 which seems to have a lot more deckers on currently which is the only bus in Walker where there's usually the Q3 or the 37/38 where there's usually the 352/353/355 and obviously the 685 to the West.

It might not be popular but I can understand why they'd want to prioritise those routes as it would be a PR disaster. The GNE pricks have cancelled the bus and now these stupid idiots have singles on and I can't get on FFS sort of complaints.

(01 Dec 2023, 9:51 am)stagecoachfan wrote Normal E300 has 42-44 seats. The only ones with 48 are the 5 05-plate long ones (27506-10)

Glad you confirmed that, I was sat on an E400 looking through an E200 trying to count an E300 so it was getting confusing haha

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(30 Nov 2023, 8:40 pm)Aaron21 wrote It doesn't help that Slatyford have way to many decker allocations. 30/31/10/11/36/72/685/All the X services all have deckers so there all over the place at the moment

Hopefully although I doubt it, SNE will be able to blag some of the Oxford E400 MMCs if and when the electrics enter service down their. 

By my working out if slatyford received ten of those and cascaded 8 single decks to Sunderland (based on capacity I would say single deck MMCs) you could then withdraw 4 of the MANviro E200s and either 4 of the gas buses or keep them spare incase of what happened the other week and the gas plant goes down.

I was under the impression that the 22 could cope with a few single decks being run on it, it maybe because of the GNE strikes

(01 Dec 2023, 5:55 pm)toward6931 wrote Glad you confirmed that, I was sat on an E400 looking through an E200 trying to count an E300 so it was getting confusing haha

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Hopefully although I doubt it, SNE will be able to blag some of the Oxford E400 MMCs if and when the electrics enter service down their. 

By my working out if slatyford received ten of those and cascaded 8 single decks to Sunderland (based on capacity I would say single deck MMCs) you could then withdraw 4 of the MANviro E200s and either 4 of the gas buses or keep them spare incase of what happened the other week and the gas plant goes down.

I was under the impression that the 22 could cope with a few single decks being run on it, it maybe because of the GNE strikes

Any cascade from there would certainly have to wait until the electric turn up, as the E400MMCs currently being displaced from Witney by a batch of brand new E400MMCs are already spoken for.

I notice today, and the last day or so, the 685 is now 2 singles from Slatyford.

Am I right in assuming the E400MMCs were. or are, used on (1) Northern strike/no service days and (2) GNE strike days?

As if using E300s on double deck routes isn’t bad enough last week 38 has had an E200 allocated to it!

Thankfully SC doesn't have any Solos or anything at Newcastle

(13 Dec 2023, 11:50 am)Unber43 wrote Thankfully SC doesn't have any Solos or anything at Newcastle

The E200's are basically like putting a solo on though. The only routes which require buses that small is 32/32A, 35 & 317 - oh wait the contracts...
It's like putting a solo on the Angel 21 after there has been major delays and overcrowding at stops never mind on the actual bus.

(13 Dec 2023, 11:50 am)Unber43 wrote Thankfully SC doesn't have any Solos or anything at Newcastle

Wondering if they're gonna for any E100 EVs?
That would put the cat among the pigeons on the 62!

(14 Dec 2023, 2:42 pm)Andreos1 wrote Wondering if they're gonna for any E100 EVs?
That would put the cat among the pigeons on the 62!

Yes could only imagine! They’ve had E200s on there too!

Is there actually much capacity difference between an Enviro 200 and Enviro 300 with Stagecoach, if I'm right Stagecoach's E200's are 10.8m long?

(14 Dec 2023, 7:11 pm)Storx wrote Is there actually much capacity difference between an Enviro 200 and Enviro 300 with Stagecoach, if I'm right Stagecoach's E200's are 10.8m long?

I’ve wondered this as well they seem very similar in length especially the ones that came from Stockton the MANE300s seem longer

There isn't much. Can't remember off the top of my head exactly so these may be slightly off, but I'm pretty sure a gasbus is certified to hold 70 (seated and standing), our 36000s will hold about 67 and 39000s hold 64 iirc. Deckers hold 94.

Your're right, the E200's are 10.8m. I believe the MAN's to be 3cm longer than the E300's