Arriva North East have announced a temporary frequency reduction on the 35|X21|X22 they will be reduced to every 30 minutes Monday-Friday, Saturday and Sunday services will not change.


What are the odds that the temporary frequencies will become permanent?

(09 Apr 2024, 8:13 am)Unber43 wrote Arriva North East have announced a temporary frequency reduction on the 35|X21|X22 they will be reduced to every 30 minutes Monday-Friday, Saturday and Sunday services will not change.


What are the odds that the temporary frequencies will become permanent?

Arriva Northumbria tend to actually reinstate previous frequencies when they announced temporary reductions, a prime example of this is the 43/44/45 after the issues at Jesmond, so I'm not sure why you don't think that will be the case here? Note that they have maintained an every 20 minute frequency on the X21/22 during the morning peak to Newcastle.

It won't be going back to normal anytime soon. Current new starters are on 2p an hour above minimum wage until the latest pay deal is resolved, and even then I can't see it going up to anymore than £12/hr.

(10 Apr 2024, 3:19 pm)Driver9*** wrote It won't be going back to normal anytime soon. Current new starters are on 2p an hour above minimum wage until the latest pay deal is resolved, and even then I can't see it going up to anymore than £12/hr.

I mean, the rejected offer was significantly more than £12/hr for new starters.

(10 Apr 2024, 3:22 pm)mb134 wrote I mean, the rejected offer was significantly more than £12/hr for new starters.

Was it? I guess the proposed 4% was just for the top earners then? I guess they have to offer new starters more considering GNEs are on almost £13/hr......

(10 Apr 2024, 3:32 pm)Driver9*** wrote Was it? I guess the proposed 4% was just for the top earners then? I guess they have to offer new starters more considering GNEs are on almost £13/hr......

The most recent offer was around 6% for those on top rate.

Blyth seems to have the 1 due to the Ashington shortages. I was told it was the 2

(15 Apr 2024, 7:48 am)Aaron21 wrote Blyth seems to have the 1 due to the Ashington shortages. I was told it was the 2

yeah they appear to have 2 boards of the 1 and ash has the remaining 2 boards. seen 1493 and 1504 out on the 1 today and ashingtons 7557 and 7560.

Reduction has went horrendously. Coupled with shocking allocations (Streetlites on the busiest X21/22s to town, and on the hourly X14), there are multiple X21/22s cancelled each day leaving gaps of 90 mins to 2 hours at times.

The lack of plan to fix things from management, given the length of time they have been short of drivers, shows the sheer scale of the incompetence. If the new owners have any sense, every single person involved in the overall "management" of the company should be at the Job Centre within 5 minutes of them taking over.

(16 Apr 2024, 1:17 pm)mb134 wrote Reduction has went horrendously. Coupled with shocking allocations (Streetlites on the busiest X21/22s to town, and on the hourly X14), there are multiple X21/22s cancelled each day leaving gaps of 90 mins to 2 hours at times.

The lack of plan to fix things from management, given the length of time they have been short of drivers, shows the sheer scale of the incompetence. If the new owners have any sense, every single person involved in the overall "management" of the company should be at the Job Centre within 5 minutes of them taking over.

I find it interesting how quickly Northumbria have gone downhill. The 306/308 used to be pretty good until late last year, and now they are completely unusable.

GNE must be happy with the extra passengers at least!

(16 Apr 2024, 1:38 pm)Thomas12 wrote I find it interesting how quickly Northumbria have gone downhill. The 306/308 used to be pretty good until late last year, and now they are completely unusable.

GNE must be happy with the extra passengers at least!

It's interesting how many times I've seen people let the 309 pass and wait for the 306 or 308 to go as far as Corner House or Benfield Road. Either some people still prefer Arriva, or the promotional work that you can use the Arriva tickets on GNE coast road services hasn't worked well. I assume the latter.

(16 Apr 2024, 1:17 pm)mb134 wrote Reduction has went horrendously. Coupled with shocking allocations (Streetlites on the busiest X21/22s to town, and on the hourly X14), there are multiple X21/22s cancelled each day leaving gaps of 90 mins to 2 hours at times.

The lack of plan to fix things from management, given the length of time they have been short of drivers, shows the sheer scale of the incompetence. If the new owners have any sense, every single person involved in the overall "management" of the company should be at the Job Centre within 5 minutes of them taking over.

You should come live down from a route from the Blyth depot, it's been going on for the best part of 2 year now, ever since the Jesmond ballsup and them gaining work, they never had the drivers to actually do the work.

There's a reason why I'm so pro train and it's not just that it's a train, it's also the incompetence of Arriva.

The allocations are shocking here aswell, there appears to be two boards missing on the X7/X8/X9 today. How should we do it? I have a good idea, let's do two boards straight after each other

(16 Apr 2024, 5:59 pm)Storx wrote You should come live down from a route from the Blyth depot, it's been going on for the best part of 2 year now, ever since the Jesmond ballsup and them gaining work, they never had the drivers to actually do the work.

There's a reason why I'm so pro train and it's not just that it's a train, it's also the incompetence of Arriva.

The allocations are shocking here aswell, there appears to be two boards missing on the X7/X8/X9 today. How should we do it? I have a good idea, let's do two boards straight after each other

I had a problem with the 306 today; the bus I went for didn't turn up and the next one, due 20 minutes later, was 12 minutes late. I got off the bus at St. Mary's Place, and there was another 306 immediately behind. On my return journey at the Haymarket the departure board was showing a 306 due in 3 minutes. It didn't show, so I used the 308 instead. Then on the Coast Road I noticed a 306 ahead of the 308. Departed too early from the Haymarket?? It's ironic that Arriva have recently increased the frequency on a number of their services, and they have introduced new services, yet they don't have the capacity to run them efficiently. I wish they would just pack in altogether and allow a more competent company to take over.

(16 Apr 2024, 6:37 pm)Ex-conductor wrote I had a problem with the 306 today; the bus I went for didn't turn up and the next one, due 20 minutes later, was 12 minutes late. I got off the bus at St. Mary's Place, and there was another 306 immediately behind. On my return journey at the Haymarket the departure board was showing a 306 due in 3 minutes. It didn't show, so I used the 308 instead. Then on the Coast Road I noticed a 306 ahead of the 308. Departed too early from the Haymarket?? It's ironic that Arriva have recently increased the frequency on a number of their services, and they have introduced new services, yet they don't have the capacity to run them efficiently. I wish they would just pack in altogether and allow a more competent company to take over.

Doesn't surprise me one bit that. There's been a few times here where one of the X7's has left Haymarket 25 minutes late, happens all the time due to traffic for them to run an empty bus in and run it on time on the board behind for them to follow each whereas everything is cancelled, just horrible allocating of things.

Doesn't help the timetables are too tight either mind.

(16 Apr 2024, 5:59 pm)Storx wrote You should come live down from a route from the Blyth depot, it's been going on for the best part of 2 year now, ever since the Jesmond ballsup and them gaining work, they never had the drivers to actually do the work.

There's a reason why I'm so pro train and it's not just that it's a train, it's also the incompetence of Arriva.

The allocations are shocking here aswell, there appears to be two boards missing on the X7/X8/X9 today. How should we do it? I have a good idea, let's do two boards straight after each other

And ever since the original 44 was withdrawn (Hazlerigg - Whitley Bay).....both Arriva & GNE have been guilty of a 'pack em in and make them late' mentality! The East of North Tyneside & Seaton Sluice has badly been screaming out of an express. Considering the 308 was at one point (excl any Stagecoach routes) the most profitable behind GNE's 21 which has a parallel express (X21).

My biggest gripe is lets say a 308 or 309 are running in pairs Blyth to New York or Billy Mill. They either keep chasing each other....or in GNE's case, SDC kicks passengers onto the one behind making them even more later. Don't know what the insurance implications are for carrying NIS (maybe Dan would be able to answer that) but surely the driver should say "if you want Newcastle stay on, or if wanting anywhere en-route, jump on the one behind".

(16 Apr 2024, 1:17 pm)mb134 wrote Reduction has went horrendously. Coupled with shocking allocations (Streetlites on the busiest X21/22s to town, and on the hourly X14), there are multiple X21/22s cancelled each day leaving gaps of 90 mins to 2 hours at times.

The lack of plan to fix things from management, given the length of time they have been short of drivers, shows the sheer scale of the incompetence. If the new owners have any sense, every single person involved in the overall "management" of the company should be at the Job Centre within 5 minutes of them taking over.

All three of the Jesmond/Ashington/Blyth depot managers retired at the end of last year. If the man who was the assitant DM at Ashington got the DM job I'm not surprised it's running like a bag of s***e, he wasn't fit to run a bath.

Personally I think the owners are hoping demand drops when the new train line is opened later this year so they're just sucking up the criticism for now.

(16 Apr 2024, 7:53 pm)Driver9*** wrote All three of the Jesmond/Ashington/Blyth depot managers retired at the end of last year. If the man who was the assitant DM at Ashington got the DM job I'm not surprised it's running like a bag of s***e, he wasn't fit to run a bath.

Personally I think the owners are hoping demand drops when the new train line is opened later this year so they're just sucking up the criticism for now.

They're in the middle of a takeover, I suspect the current owners don't care. The little bits I've heard about the company taking over is they invest wisely in order to improve profits. They must have a plan and I doubt dumping areas which can make money like the North East will be part of that plan. The sooner it goes through the better as it is rotting badly now.

(16 Apr 2024, 7:53 pm)Driver9*** wrote All three of the Jesmond/Ashington/Blyth depot managers retired at the end of last year. If the man who was the assitant DM at Ashington got the DM job I'm not surprised it's running like a bag of s***e, he wasn't fit to run a bath.

Personally I think the owners are hoping demand drops when the new train line is opened later this year so they're just sucking up the criticism for now.

I think depot management is a huge issue, but ultimately Rochford shouldn't be in the position he is in - I highly doubt Stagecoach would let him make the teas let alone run 2 divisions. 

Standards dropped off a cliff the second Nick Knox left, and now it's just jobs for the boys at depot management level and above. 

It's funny that both ANE and GNE have both decided to install incompetent management teams right ahead of inevitable franchising. I imagine those involved in the selection process will be on the floor with laughter when they see bids from either company come in. 

It also makes you wonder about the ability of the Traffic Commissioner, the service across the NE has been shocking since 2022-2023 with no signs of improving, and they have done absolutely nothing to hold the companies to account.

(16 Apr 2024, 7:31 pm)L469 YVK wrote And ever since the original 44 was withdrawn (Hazlerigg - Whitley Bay).....both Arriva & GNE have been guilty of a 'pack em in and make them late' mentality! The East of North Tyneside & Seaton Sluice has badly been screaming out of an express. Considering the 308 was at one point (excl any Stagecoach routes) the most profitable behind GNE's 21 which has a parallel express (X21).

My biggest gripe is lets say a 308 or 309 are running in pairs Blyth to New York or Billy Mill. They either keep chasing each other....or in GNE's case, SDC kicks passengers onto the one behind making them even more later. Don't know what the insurance implications are for carrying NIS (maybe Dan would be able to answer that) but surely the driver should say "if you want Newcastle stay on, or if wanting anywhere en-route, jump on the one behind".

I agree completely. whilst I will tollerate the 308 as at least it goes a direct route I will not use any of the others because it goes round battle hill and cobalt and is extremely  tedious. Bring back the 44 to Whitley Bay

(16 Apr 2024, 7:31 pm)L469 YVK wrote And ever since the original 44 was withdrawn (Hazlerigg - Whitley Bay).....both Arriva & GNE have been guilty of a 'pack em in and make them late' mentality! The East of North Tyneside & Seaton Sluice has badly been screaming out of an express. Considering the 308 was at one point (excl any Stagecoach routes) the most profitable behind GNE's 21 which has a parallel express (X21).

My biggest gripe is lets say a 308 or 309 are running in pairs Blyth to New York or Billy Mill. They either keep chasing each other....or in GNE's case, SDC kicks passengers onto the one behind making them even more later. Don't know what the insurance implications are for carrying NIS (maybe Dan would be able to answer that) but surely the driver should say "if you want Newcastle stay on, or if wanting anywhere en-route, jump on the one behind".

See personally, I think the 308 should terminate short at Whitley Bay, it's really not needed beyond there. The X7 is the express route pretty much. What is needed though is better Metro links, like personally, I'd look at curtailing the 351 short so it's Whitley Bay to Holystone only, and upping the thing considerable say every 15/20 minutes and use the Metro links instead, you could make a similar case for the 359 aswell and scrap the 354 through to Newcastle.

There's too many buses avoiding Metro stations and going magical on a mystery tour to Newcastle but unless the services are frequent enough, people won't change as it's too risky changing onto an hourly bus, even every 30 minutes is touch and go.

There's no need for a million buses heading to Newcastle imo and it's not unique to this area either. The X46 and Q3 are two other prime examples with the Regent Centre on the doorstep. You could even go further and do the 44/45 aswell, heading from the Grainger Market, it's actually quicker to change already anyway by the time you trundle through to Haymarket.

(17 Apr 2024, 10:16 am)Storx wrote See personally, I think the 308 should terminate short at Whitley Bay, it's really not needed beyond there. The X7 is the express route pretty much. What is needed though is better Metro links, like personally, I'd look at curtailing the 351 short so it's Whitley Bay to Holystone only, and upping the thing considerable say every 15/20 minutes and use the Metro links instead, you could make a similar case for the 359 aswell and scrap the 354 through to Newcastle.

There's too many buses avoiding Metro stations and going magical on a mystery tour to Newcastle but unless the services are frequent enough, people won't change as it's too risky changing onto an hourly bus, even every 30 minutes is touch and go.

There's no need for a million buses heading to Newcastle imo and it's not unique to this area either. The X46 and Q3 are two other prime examples with the Regent Centre on the doorstep. You could even go further and do the 44/45 aswell, heading from the Grainger Market, it's actually quicker to change already anyway by the time you trundle through to Haymarket.

I'd disagree there. It's far easier getting the bus direct to Newcastle than having to change at Regent Centre when using the 44 or 45. I use the bus to work every day at the moment. If I had to change at Regent Centre, walk down to the Metro and wait for that to turn up to take me to town, I'd likely just take the car instead.

It makes sense for longer journeys where the Metro is far quicker than the likes of the 308. But for short journeys it is inconvenient and will drive people away.

(17 Apr 2024, 12:18 pm)Shrek wrote I'd disagree there. It's far easier getting the bus direct to Newcastle than having to change at Regent Centre when using the 44 or 45. I use the bus to work every day at the moment. If I had to change at Regent Centre, walk down to the Metro and wait for that to turn up to take me to town, I'd likely just take the car instead.

It makes sense for longer journeys where the Metro is far quicker than the likes of the 308. But for short journeys it is inconvenient and will drive people away.

Aye I get that argument it would all be connection times and have to be more frequent aswell but over time if you got people used to it. It'd be interesting whether people would rather have a 7.5/15 service with a change or a 15/30 service without the change and for most a walk aswell. I know personally which I'd prefer as long as the Regent Centre waiting area was improved for Northbound buses.

You'd be close to be able to do the former using the existing resources on paper with those wanting to go to Gosforth having to change onto one of the 15+ express buses.

Not everyone is close to a metro station. Nearest one for me is at least 25 minutes walk.
See personally, I think the 308 should terminate short at Whitley Bay, it's really not needed beyond there. The X7 is the express route pretty much. What is needed though is better Metro links, like personally, I'd look at curtailing the 351 short so it's Whitley Bay to Holystone only, and upping the thing considerable say every 15/20 minutes and use the Metro links instead, you could make a similar case for the 359 aswell and scrap the 354 through to Newcastle.

There's too many buses avoiding Metro stations and going magical on a mystery tour to Newcastle but unless the services are frequent enough, people won't change as it's too risky changing onto an hourly bus, even every 30 minutes is touch and go.

There's no need for a million buses heading to Newcastle imo and it's not unique to this area either. The X46 and Q3 are two other prime examples with the Regent Centre on the doorstep. You could even go further and do the 44/45 aswell, heading from the Grainger Market, it's actually quicker to change already anyway by the time you trundle through to Haymarket.

(18 Apr 2024, 7:40 am)ian foster wrote Not everyone is close to a metro station. Nearest one for me is at least 25 minutes walk.

Yeah no arguments there, there definitely needs to be buses inbetween the two Metro lines. I actually think Marden deserves a better service towards Newcastle, to be honest, it's in the awkward place where getting to the Metro would be involve going the wrong way. Not the 6 buses an hour heading towards Tynemouth / Whitley Bay which is complete overkill as an understatement or the 6 buses along Rake Lane via Foxhunters either all going to Blyth.

Forcing me to use bus / Metro would increase my journey time to the City Centre by at least 10 minutes. I live midway between 2 Metro stations with a good 25 - 30 minutes walk to each which I sometimes do but not on a wet or rainy day when my bus stop is only about 3 minutes walk. On top of that a cancelled Metro could increase your wait by about 20 minutes sometimes which on a cold Wallsend platform is not pleasant. Give me a 10 minute bus and Metro service and I could be convinced though. Maybe Nexus could look at Switzerland for some ideas, trams, trolleybuses, buses, light rail and main line trains connecting with all operator tickets. On the subject of the 308, where would driver changeovers be for the 306/308 and the Ridley Park area would be busless - maybe cut short the 309 instead?

(18 Apr 2024, 8:45 am)RMF1254 wrote Forcing me to use bus / Metro would increase my journey time to the City Centre by at least 10 minutes. I live midway between 2 Metro stations with a good 25 - 30 minutes walk to each  which I sometimes do but not on a wet or rainy day when my bus stop is only about 3 minutes walk. On top of that a cancelled Metro could increase your wait by about 20 minutes sometimes which on a cold Wallsend platform is not pleasant. Give me a 10 minute bus and Metro service and I could be convinced though. Maybe Nexus could look at Switzerland for some ideas, trams, trolleybuses, buses, light rail and main line trains connecting with all operator tickets.  On the subject of the 308, where would driver changeovers be for the 306/308 and the Ridley Park area would be busless - maybe cut short the 309 instead?

Aye no arguments with that, the local service would definitely have to be very frequent for it work, it's arguably better than having everything queuing up at Corner House instead though. I know most European countries do it quite well though, never mind just Switzerland. Heck even London does really, there's not many buses running miles out the suburbs to the centre they head to the nearest Tube station. Ealing Broadway or Hammersmith I know are two massive interchanges there and both won't be a kick in the teeth in difference distance wise to say Northumberland Park or North Shields. Having a 30 minute bus from the Metro station would never work though.

309 via Ridley Park and franchising will be in soon anyway so was assuming things would be just moved around anyway.

It's getting worse.

First X22 cancelled this morning. First X21 from Newbiggin cancelled.

0617, 0747, 0817 35s to Morpeth all cancelled.

0537, 0639, 0754 X22s to Newcastle all cancelled.

0531, 0641, 0746 X21s to Newcastle all cancelled.

...and it's not even 9am yet.

(22 Apr 2024, 7:35 am)mb134 wrote It's getting worse.

First X22 cancelled this morning. First X21 from Newbiggin cancelled.

0617, 0747, 0817 35s to Morpeth all cancelled.

0537, 0639, 0754 X22s to Newcastle all cancelled.

0531, 0641, 0746 X21s to Newcastle all cancelled.

...and it's not even 9am yet.

Baffling that Arriva are not trying to entice existing licence holders with the top rate on start of employment like GNE and SC. They are getting no one for £12 and a few coppers per hour bar learner drivers, who know no better about the ups (few) and downs (many) of the job and invariably leave long before the two year service time to qualify for the top rate.

(22 Apr 2024, 7:35 am)mb134 wrote It's getting worse.

First X22 cancelled this morning. First X21 from Newbiggin cancelled.

0617, 0747, 0817 35s to Morpeth all cancelled.

0537, 0639, 0754 X22s to Newcastle all cancelled.

0531, 0641, 0746 X21s to Newcastle all cancelled.

...and it's not even 9am yet.

It seemed a far better day on the 43/44/45 from what I saw though. I wonder if they spin the wheel to see which service will be hit each day as those services were hammered at the end of last week with cancellations.

(22 Apr 2024, 10:50 pm)Shrek wrote It seemed a far better day on the 43/44/45 from what I saw though. I wonder if they spin the wheel to see which service will be hit each day as those services were hammered at the end of last week with cancellations.

They're limping along till the company takeover and/or start of the SE Northumberland rail line. I doubt the X21/22 will ever revert back to the 20 mins frequency besides a few extra morning/late afternoon runs. The X10/11 at Blyth were the same and now every 30 mins.