(16 Jun 2014, 8:45 pm)Marcus wrote That's what I'm trying to say - if a big attraction like a Cinema or 5 Star Restaurant were to be opened in either Dalton Park or Royal Quays, then maybe a whirr of business would come in, and thus boost the whole outlet as a whole.

It is .
That's what we have been saying.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:49 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote It is .
That's what we have been saying.

Dalton Park doesn't seem to use up all of the potential it has - if there were to be a cinema (even a small one) then no doubt a lot more usage of the entire facilities (watch a movie, get a meal, do a bit of shopping afterwards etc) would come.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:40 pm)Tom wrote No, but what I'm saying is, there are plenty of opportunities for business from the ferry terminal. Even local people will probably visit after a game of bowling or going to the waterpark? Overall, I think Royal Quays attracts lots more visitors than Dalton Park, and Dalton Park has huge potential to! - Think about the effect on the business if a new cinema open? More people would be visiting the shops, therefore increased profit?

The Ferry Terminal will always give Royal Quays a lead over DP.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:42 pm)Marcus wrote I just feel like, well, if The Bridges is dominating Sunderland, a major city in the region, why isn't there a shopping centre as big closer to Durham. I just feel like Dalton Park is bam in the middle of them, I know The Gate is quite popular in Durham City Centre, but for me there isn't much there.

Dalton Park is not in competition with the Bridges, it is a completely different kind of retail outlet to the Bridges, The Gate, Eldon Square and Metrocentre.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:43 pm)cbma06 wrote Dalton Park is in the right place, well served by car users next to A19, this is why it has a large car parking areas, and Dalton Park is well served by public transport (Bus), You have service 202 from Peterlee, service 265 and Arriva 24 from Durham, and also service 61 from Sunderland. Peterlee,Durham and Sunderland are areas which are served by connecting bus services from different areas.

If you want to go to Dalton Park from Newcastle then you get service X9 to Peterlee then onto service 202 to Dalton Park, otherwise go by car.

I was told from the last MD at GNE that GNE would see after the completed Phases at Dalton Park finished before deciding to see if theres any further demand for increasing bus frequencies ( any potential passengers using the cinema etc.. on a evenings etc).

Agree with that...Can't wait for it to expand if it ever happens, means I can goto the flicks 10 minutes walk away

Given recent discussion re ANE X2 and GNE X3, was going to suggest some form of express service Durham - Dalton Park - Sunderland - Newcastle but I don't think there's any chance of squeezing that into the current hour-ish that the X2 has, unless GNE were to operate it.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:49 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote It is .
That's what we have been saying.

But it's premature to discuss anything when (BIB):

(16 Jun 2014, 8:43 pm)cbma06 wrote Dalton Park is in the right place, well served by car users next to A19, this is why it has a large car parking areas, and Dalton Park is well served by public transport (Bus), You have service 202 from Peterlee, service 265 and Arriva 24 from Durham, and also service 61 from Sunderland. Peterlee,Durham and Sunderland are areas which are served by connecting bus services from different areas.

If you want to go to Dalton Park from Newcastle then you get service X9 to Peterlee then onto service 202 to Dalton Park, otherwise go by car.

I was told from the last MD at GNE that GNE would see after the completed Phases at Dalton Park finished before deciding to see if theres any further demand for increasing bus frequencies ( any potential passengers using the cinema etc.. on a evenings etc).

This whole discussion is currently ifs and buts, until there's actual progress on Stage 2, we'll just keep going round in circles.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:43 pm)cbma06 wrote Dalton Park is in the right place, well served by car users next to A19, this is why it has a large car parking areas, and Dalton Park is well served by public transport (Bus), You have service 202 from Peterlee, service 265 and Arriva 24 from Durham, and also service 61 from Sunderland. Peterlee,Durham and Sunderland are areas which are served by connecting bus services from different areas.

If you want to go to Dalton Park from Newcastle then you get service X9 to Peterlee then onto service 202 to Dalton Park, otherwise go by car.

I was told from the last MD at GNE that GNE would see after the completed Phases at Dalton Park finished before deciding to see if theres any further demand for increasing bus frequencies ( any potential passengers using the cinema etc.. on a evenings etc).

That's the problem though. People going shopping don't want to be faffing on changing bus with bags of shopping or coming out of the cinema having to plan a journey home/connections to the minute, especially on a night.

Even though I live nearer DP than Sunderland, Gateshead or Boldon cinemas - it would be harder to get to DP using public transport.
Like others, I would be within minutes of the cinema at Sunderland if I went to DP via Park Lane.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:55 pm)Kuyoyo wrote But it's premature to discuss anything when (BIB):


This whole discussion is currently ifs and buts, until there's actual progress on Stage 2, we'll just keep going round in circles.

It is a suggestions thread, of course it is all ifs and buts.

Stage 2 has been given the go-ahead. It is happening...

I apologise for making a bit of a boob of myself in my last post,i was just thnking GNE now kinda operate 2 29's, why did it get changed from the 26/26A which if i remember used to be branded,(but wouldnt know cus im not from that area) to the unbranded 29/29A, i will say tho, im sick of duplicate bus numbers,also just to add arriva service 10 got scrapped along with the 11

(16 Jun 2014, 8:45 pm)Marcus wrote That's what I'm trying to say - if a big attraction like a Cinema or 5 Star Restaurant were to be opened in either Dalton Park or Royal Quays, then maybe a whirr of business would come in, and thus boost the whole outlet as a whole.

Why would a 5 star restaurant open in a budget outlet retail unit in County Durham? (or Royal Quays for that matter)

A cinema doesn't necessarily mean bus links, Boldon is poorly served (as an example) as is the Cineworld at Silverlink.

The basic facts are that Royal Quays, Dalton etc are not interested in public transport users, they were not and are not built around them and they certainly will not grow around them, they will grow inspite of them.

(16 Jun 2014, 10:06 pm)tezthorn wrote I apologise for making a bit of a boob of myself in my last post,i was just thnking GNE now kinda operate 2 29's, why did it get changed from the 26/26A which if i remember used to be branded,(but wouldnt know cus im not from that area) to the unbranded 29/29A, i will say tho, im sick of duplicate bus numbers,also just to add arriva service 10 got scrapped along with the 11

I questioned this and was told one is nexus branded not an official go north east service operating to kibblesworth and the other is an official northern branded service to Doxford. So they can get away with it

(16 Jun 2014, 5:44 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I will only believe it when I see it being built, we have been told umpteen times phase 2 was going to start soon, I think originally it was supposed to start a year after the official opening in 2003

I got told, which is completely just on grapevine been from the area, that the phase 2 keeps getting delayed as the stores (Namely Morrisons) won't agree on the amount of land it has and keep pushing for extra space.
Also to help congestion I'd like to see the exit near McDonalds become open full time to allow buses/traffic to flow through, using two entrances/exits can surely help.
As Fozz says, DP can get very busy on Saturdays in particular. I do think maybe a service to Newcastle would help just to open connections up to Houghton, Newbottle, Shiney Row & Washingtkn maybe too.
I do think an X7 like service may help also. Maybe X8 Sunderland-Grangetown-New Seaham-Dalton Park-Peterlee. Stop points would be as per X7, with Seaham Byron Place & Dawdon Business Park replaced by New Seaham, Mill Inn & Murton, Dalton Park.

I do think strengthening point to point links from Seaham-Murton could help, two buses an hour on daytimes with no evening or Sunday service? I think having a bus like the old 65, maybe East Durham 203 Seaham-The Avenue-Dalton Park-Woods Terrace every 30 minutes (Therefore creating a bus every 15 minutes) could help extend links even from Seaham Train Station and service such as the X7 & 238 which don't serve DP.
Obviously I'm from the area but don't think these suggestions are that pie in the sky.
I think my Red Arrows idea from the other day could be good idea (PVR increase though):-
X1 Seaham, Houghton-Seaton-Station Road-Seaham
X1 Easington Lane, Houghton-Hetton-Easington Lane
X1 Dalton Park, Houghton-Hetton-Murton-Dalton Park
Each service/destination every 30 minutes. This alongside the 203 idea could therefore open up connections and give better potentially bus links.

(16 Jun 2014, 8:45 pm)Marcus wrote That's what I'm trying to say - if a big attraction like a Cinema or 5 Star Restaurant were to be opened in either Dalton Park or Royal Quays, then maybe a whirr of business would come in, and thus boost the whole outlet as a whole.

5 Star Restaurant?! - Don't think that would suit the target market for outlett centres! There is already a decent Brewers Fayre resturants down there, and I don't think a cinema would be necessary, as they already have Star Bowling and Wet n' Wild which will bring business to the shops, in addition to the hotel and ferry terminal which will give the Royal Quays a boost.

(16 Jun 2014, 9:03 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote That's the problem though. People going shopping don't want to be faffing on changing bus with bags of shopping or coming out of the cinema having to plan a journey home/connections to the minute, especially on a night.

Even though I live nearer DP than Sunderland, Gateshead or Boldon cinemas - it would be harder to get to DP using public transport.
Like others, I would be within minutes of the cinema at Sunderland if I went to DP via Park Lane.


It is a suggestions thread, of course it is all ifs and buts.

Stage 2 has been given the go-ahead. It is happening...

Indeed it is, has been given the go ahead and work is due to be started soon, and scheduled to take approximately twelve months.

I totally agree, Dalton Park is a nightmare to get to unless you live in Sunderland, Peterlee or Durham. I'd probably have to get four buses! Royal Quays is a bit better like, as if you got the Shields Ferry or the Metro there is easy frequent connections onto the 17 or 19.

(16 Jun 2014, 10:45 pm)gtom wrote Why would a 5 star restaurant open in a budget outlet retail unit in County Durham? (or Royal Quays for that matter)

A cinema doesn't necessarily mean bus links, Boldon is poorly served (as an example) as is the Cineworld at Silverlink.

The basic facts are that Royal Quays, Dalton etc are not interested in public transport users, they were not and are not built around them and they certainly will not grow around them, they will grow inspite of them.

Aye, Silverlink is terribly served. Only the 19 goes there, and surely if another service was diverted that way, more customers would visit? It does have a huge range of shops, and now that the M&S at South Shields has been moved over here, more bus links should be provided. It does have a range of restaurants too, as well as the Odeon. So I think it would be worthwhile to divert another bus through that way.

(17 Jun 2014, 6:42 am)Tom wrote 5 Star Restaurant?! - Don't think that would suit the target market for outlett centres! There is already a decent Brewers Fayre resturants down there, and I don't think a cinema would be necessary, as they already have Star Bowling and Wet n' Wild which will bring business to the shops, in addition to the hotel and ferry terminal which will give the Royal Quays a boost.


Indeed it is, has been given the go ahead and work is due to be started soon, and scheduled to take approximately twelve months.

I totally agree, Dalton Park is a nightmare to get to unless you live in Sunderland, Peterlee or Durham. I'd probably have to get four buses! Royal Quays is a bit better like, as if you got the Shields Ferry or the Metro there is easy frequent connections onto the 17 or 19.



Aye, Silverlink is terribly served. Only the 19 goes there, and surely if another service was diverted that way, more customers would visit? It does have a huge range of shops, and now that the M&S at South Shields has been moved over here, more bus links should be provided. It does have a range of restaurants too, as well as the Odeon. So I think it would be worthwhile to divert another bus through that way.

It could be better but it's not bad. You've got the 306/308 on the Coast Road, 19 from Ospery Drive, 309 from Atmel with a short walk or 310 from Tyneside Audi with a short walk. I agree with the comments about Dalton Park and the Royal Quays. I would say the same applies about car users being the majority at the Silverlink.

(17 Jun 2014, 4:42 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote It could be better but it's not bad. You've got the 306/308 on the Coast Road, 19 from Ospery Drive, 309 from Atmel with a short walk or 310 from Tyneside Audi with a short walk. I agree with the comments about Dalton Park and the Royal Quays. I would say the same applies about car users being the majority at the Silverlink.

I would say car users make up the majority at all$ most shopping/retail outlets

(17 Jun 2014, 4:45 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I would say car users make up the majority at all$ most shopping/retail outlets

The Metrocentre used to be shocking for traffic/cars in the late 80's/early 90's - with additional parking sought by the owners not far from the Fed Brewery.
Either footfall in the place has dropped considerably, or improvements with public transport to the place, has helped reduce the number of cars needing spaces to park.

One of the reasons for the increasing amount of car usage for people using out of town retail parks is the lack of luggage storage space on modern buses. I prefer to use the bus when I visit Dalton Park but if my purchase is something larger than a pair of shoes the bus just has no space to stow my luggage.
I guess the operators have to balance luggage space against extra seating capacity but placing a Metro Newspaper tray over the luggage rack does not help either.

(17 Jun 2014, 6:36 pm)GuyParkRoyal wrote One of the reasons for the increasing amount of car usage for people using out of town retail parks is the lack of luggage storage space on modern buses. I prefer to use the bus when I visit Dalton Park but if my purchase is something larger than a pair of shoes the bus just has no space to stow my luggage.
I guess the operators have to balance luggage space against extra seating capacity but placing a Metro Newspaper tray over the luggage rack does not help either.

Yeah, I agree. Speaking of luggage space, there's no luggage space on Versas at all!

(17 Jun 2014, 6:36 pm)GuyParkRoyal wrote One of the reasons for the increasing amount of car usage for people using out of town retail parks is the lack of luggage storage space on modern buses. I prefer to use the bus when I visit Dalton Park but if my purchase is something larger than a pair of shoes the bus just has no space to stow my luggage.
I guess the operators have to balance luggage space against extra seating capacity but placing a Metro Newspaper tray over the luggage rack does not help either.

The chances in modern society of people leaving anything of great value on a public bus luggage rack are slim to absolute zero

(17 Jun 2014, 10:46 pm)gtom wrote The chances in modern society of people leaving anything of great value on a public bus luggage rack are slim to absolute zero

I'd agree with this. if I'm travelling to and from work its certainly a no-no, as I've got my laptop with me.

I miss the 322 and 323

68 - Wrekenton - Queen Elizabeth Hospital - Felling Square - Heworth - Lakes Estate - Pelaw - Bill Quay - Hebburn College - Hebburn Station Road - Lukes Lane Estate

Service Extension would therefore Replace fellow Nexus Services 515 and TB529 and improve links across the Route.

*New Service 233/234*

Peterlee - Easington - Dalton Park - Seaham - New Seaham - Seaton - Houghton-le-Spring - Hetton-le-Hole - Easington Lane - South Hetton - Easington Village - Peterlee

Every 15 Minutes Operating in Clockwise/Anti Clockwise Loop Replace in Part Service X35 which would operate straight down the coast as Previously Discussed on Thread via Peterlee to Hartlepool, Haven't thought about what could replace the X35 through Doxford International towards Houghton le Spring, but will likely be a Variation of one of the Laser 35's re-routed slightly.

56A - Sunderland Interchange - Queen Alexandra Bridge - Sunderland Enterprise Park - Castletown - Waterview Park - Barmston Village Centre - Washington Village - Washington Galleries - Albany - Concord - Donwell - Springwell - QE.Hosptital - Gateshead - Newcastle

Every 30 Minutes - Replacing Service 73

M2 - Birtley - Ayton - Lambton - Washington Galleries - Washington Retail Park - Biddick - Teal Farm - Waterview Park - Peel Retail - Sulgrave - Concord - Donwell - Usworth College - Heworth

22 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Q.E. Hospital - Wrekenton - Eighton Banks - Portmeads - Picktree Village - Chester le Street - Great Lumley - Fence Houses - Houghton-le-Spring - Doxford International - East Herrington - Barnes Park - Sunderland

Could be Go North East or Stagecoach, but I have a suggestion for South Tyneside. Journey times shown are minutes from Market Street West:

Newcastle, Market Street West - 00
Gateshead Interchange - 09
Heworth Interchange - 18

All stops on Felling By-pass will be served. Sunderland Road in Wardley will be served in both directions (using the bus gate followed by 'Black Bull' Slip Road returning to Newcastle). Will then operate via White Mere Pool and Leam Lane, before operating through the Brockley Whins Estate on the 88 route towards South Shields.

Brockley Whins, Edinburgh Road Shops - 30
South Tyneside District Hospital - 41
Chichester Metro - 46
South Shields Market - 52

(25 Jun 2014, 8:41 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote 56A - Sunderland Interchange - Queen Alexandra Bridge - Sunderland Enterprise Park - Castletown - Waterview Park - Barmston Village Centre - Washington Village - Washington Galleries - Albany - Concord - Donwell - Springwell - QE.Hosptital - Gateshead - Newcastle

Every 30 Minutes - Replacing Service 73

M2 - Birtley - Ayton - Lambton - Washington Galleries - Washington Retail Park - Biddick - Teal Farm - Waterview Park - Peel Retail - Sulgrave - Concord - Donwell - Usworth College - Heworth

22 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Q.E. Hospital - Wrekenton - Eighton Banks - Portmeads - Picktree Village - Chester le Street - Great Lumley - Fence Houses - Houghton-le-Spring - Doxford International - East Herrington - Barnes Park - Sunderland

Who the hell is going to sit on a bus from Newcastle to Sunderland via Chester n Lumley?? They would just use X36 or 56 or metro

(26 Jun 2014, 12:01 am)Acky81 wrote Who the hell is going to sit on a bus from Newcastle to Sunderland via Chester n Lumley?? They would just use X36 or 56 or metro

I was thinking that too

(26 Jun 2014, 12:01 am)Acky81 wrote Who the hell is going to sit on a bus from Newcastle to Sunderland via Chester n Lumley?? They would just use X36 or 56 or metro

Yeah, I can see what you mean... but who sits on the 43 from Newcastle to Durham? It's the links in between that are provided that matter.

(26 Jun 2014, 2:49 pm)BJ10VUS wrote Yeah, I can see what you mean... but who sits on the 43 from Newcastle to Durham?

The driver?

(26 Jun 2014, 2:57 pm)eezypeazy wrote The driver?

Apart from the driver!

(26 Jun 2014, 2:49 pm)BJ10VUS wrote Yeah, I can see what you mean... but who sits on the 43 from Newcastle to Durham? It's the links in between that are provided that matter.

Very Well said BJ10VUS, That was the whole idea behind the 22 to provide non existing links i.e. Chester le Street to Doxford International without it following the 78 Route to much into Sunderland, hence the Variation in Route, you argue it is technically the old 777, And it also provides Local Links to both Sunderland and Newcastle such as Fencehouses and Picktree Village without the need to change Services in between.

Few slight route changes I've came up with.

Amend the Lime 8 service to split between having an 8/8A service. The 8 would take the same route as present, and run hourly between Stanley and Sunderland - no changes.

The 8A would run hourly too, and take the ame route as the 8 at present, but with one amendment. From Washington Galleries, the 8A would do Parkway - Abbey Road - Village Lane - Glebe Crescent - Emmerson Terrace - Northumberland Way - Station Road - Pattinson Road - Waterview Park - A19 Roundabout. Providing links to both the new shopping area and (soon to be pub) at Teal Farm, as well as a link between the village and Sunderland.

I've done a quick sketch on Google Maps for those not familiar with the streets - https://goo.gl/maps/hQmPc

Second amendment would be with the 4. Instead of terminating at Fallowfield Way on an evening and Sunday, it should run right down Biddick Lane, turn left at the Welfare, and serve the club and bars down the riverside, then back up Wormhill Terrace. I reckon you'd certainly get the numbers to make it worth doing, and it would only add an extra 2 minutes on to what you've got now.

Sounds like an alright idea, on another note i think they should do something with the 17A the way it is now is kind of pointless