(07 Jun 2014, 11:27 am)cbma06 wrote Whats the chances IF GNE buying new buses for X9/X10 in the next order of buses and the X9/X10 buses be used on service X21?, to get rid of the Prontos (any maybe their get rid of the Pronto livery and have the X21 in the same livery as the X9/X10[/i].

Not likely, I'm afraid.

But the Olympians did last on the TTX and often bailed out the B7's when they broke down. The only thing that limited them was the fuel capacity. Unless GNE forked out for Astromegas therefore making the service unviable thus reducing flexibility options, the only two options are to either reduce capacity and growth by purchasing single deck coaches or purchase eco friendly double deckers that breakdown and cause passengers to go elsewhere such as by using the train.

(07 Jun 2014, 11:58 am)DaveyBowyer wrote But the Olympians did last on the TTX and often bailed out the B7's when they broke down. The only thing that limited them was the fuel capacity. Unless GNE forked out for Astromegas therefore making the service unviable thus reducing flexibility options, the only two options are to either reduce capacity and growth by purchasing single deck coaches or purchase eco friendly double deckers that breakdown and cause passengers to go elsewhere such as by using the train.

What trains do you mean? The much more luxurious 20-odd year old Pacers?

Thing is, I think you just have to accept that there is no way GNE are going to put Palatines back on to the TTX, or Palatine engines in to a modern bus. While they were built to last, they don't meet the new Euro 6 standards, and there's no point in going backwards with emissions when they're aiming to be a 'greener' company.

Just a thought

X9 - Newcastle – Gateshead – Heworth – Peterlee – Billingham – Stockton Middlesbrough - Every 30 Minutes using B9TL's Operated by Go North East

X10/X93 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Robin Hoods Bay - Scarborough - Every 1 Hour/Every 2 Hours per Operator using Coaches (Limited Stopping Service, Jointly Operated with Arriva) - 10 Minutes Layover in Middlesbrough before changing into X10/X93 - 5 Minutes Layover at Each End of the Route using 2 Drivers, 1 Each Way to meet European Driving Requirments.

X92 - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Every 30 Minutes using B7TL's Operated by Arriva

The Cost of the Coaches would be evenly split between both Operators, and would be Operated in same way as National Express/Stagecoach Megabus Services.

(07 Jun 2014, 1:53 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Just a thought

X9 - Newcastle – Gateshead – Heworth – Peterlee – Billingham – Stockton Middlesbrough - Every 30 Minutes using B9TL's Operated by Go North East

X10/X93 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Robin Hoods Bay - Scarborough - Every 1 Hour/Every 2 Hours per Operator using Coaches (Limited Stopping Service, Jointly Operated with Arriva) - 10 Minutes Layover in Middlesbrough before changing into X10/X93 - 5 Minutes Layover at Each End of the Route using 2 Drivers, 1 Each Way to meet European Driving Requirments.

X92 - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Every 30 Minutes using B7TL's Operated by Arriva

The Cost of the Coaches would be evenly split between both Operators, and would be Operated in same way as National Express/Stagecoach Megabus Services.

I'd put my money on the competition commission having something to say about that. It's anti competitive, and the kind of partnership you wouldn't expect.

(07 Jun 2014, 1:53 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Just a thought

X9 - Newcastle – Gateshead – Heworth – Peterlee – Billingham – Stockton Middlesbrough - Every 30 Minutes using B9TL's Operated by Go North East

X10/X93 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Robin Hoods Bay - Scarborough - Every 1 Hour/Every 2 Hours per Operator using Coaches (Limited Stopping Service, Jointly Operated with Arriva) - 10 Minutes Layover in Middlesbrough before changing into X10/X93 - 5 Minutes Layover at Each End of the Route using 2 Drivers, 1 Each Way to meet European Driving Requirments.

X92 - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Every 30 Minutes using B7TL's Operated by Arriva

The Cost of the Coaches would be evenly split between both Operators, and would be Operated in same way as National Express/Stagecoach Megabus Services.

I like your X10, X92 and X93 idea but for the X9, the best strategy would be to purchase B8RLE's due to the frequency increase and also the fact thay they've been designed for endurance purposes by Volvo. Just add to the routes for evenings and Sundays though, GNE would operate the X9 hourly using the B8TL and Arriva would operate the sector between Middlesborough and Scarborough on their basis.

Just my two-penneth with the vehicles and spec.

When someone buys a car, they have a choice of vehicles, with different specifications and different manufacturers.

They choose the one, which will hopefully be suitable and meet the requirements.
Engine, the size of the engine, performance etc will be taken in to account.

How many drivers, doing heavy mileage on the Motorway, will buy an underpowered car? How many of those underpowered cars would last, being driven into the ground day in, day out?

Obviously the passenger transport market is a lot smaller.
Takeovers and bankruptcies have seen to that.

Either way, (speaking the obvious here) bus operators need to find a vehicle which suits the demands of the route.
It is highly unlikely we would see a lightweight citybus allocated onto the 78 or 28. Just as it is unlikely I would buy a 1l Micra to use for business.
So why is it, we see an underpowered urban bus, allocated to the x9/10?

If those vehicles last the period specified by Dan, I will eat hay with a donkey.

I have already said elsewhere, that there is scope to grow the service - either by GNE or another operator.
Cascaded Stagecoach coaches from Scotland perhaps? I am sure residents of Billingham, Hartlepool, Stockton and Middlesbrough would appreciate a through ticket from their estates. A lot cheaper than buying tickets for two operators - with the added bonus of the vehicle turning up, offering the promised perks too.

(07 Jun 2014, 1:58 pm)aureolin wrote I'd put my money on the competition commission having something to say about that. It's anti competitive, and the kind of partnership you wouldn't expect.

But what about the Partnership between Stagecoach and Arriva with the 685, is that not anti-competitive to some extent, from looking at my idea on Paper I would say competition is evenly split between Go North East and Arriva.

BREAKING NEWS: Just been browsing and I've come across that Volvo are to introduce the D8K engine into double deckers for Euro 6 BUT, it will the tri axial only. I don't know about the bodywork but I do know that First Glasgow operate tri axial E500's that are built for the Chinese markets. Now if ADL or Wrightbus body the tri axial B8TL, it would be the perfect replacement for the B9TL on the TTX offering the capacity and flexibility of a bus but the characteristics of a coach.

(07 Jun 2014, 9:38 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote BREAKING NEWS: Just been browsing and I've come across that Volvo are to introduce the D8K engine into double deckers for Euro 6 BUT, it will the tri axial only. I don't know about the bodywork but I do know that First Glasgow operate tri axial E500's that are built for the Chinese markets. Now if ADL or Wrightbus body the tri axial B8TL, it would be the perfect replacement for the B9TL on the TTX offering the capacity and flexibility of a bus but the characteristics of a coach.

Have you got a source for this? Last I heard was that they were using this engine for coaches only.

There's no source but if you type in B8TL on google, it will show up that the tri axial replacement for the B9TL will be the B8TL . Tri axis would be far better for the TTX anyways.

(08 Jun 2014, 9:52 am)DaveyBowyer wrote There's no source but if you type in B8TL on google, it will show up that the tri axial replacement for the B9TL will be the B8TL . Tri axis would be far better for the TTX anyways.

I note this is from September 2012, yet nothing has come to light of the B8TL yet..?

I know that there's nothing to light yet but I certainly don't think the Chinese will compromise on power for the sake of economy. They'll want big heavy and powerful double deckers built. Volvo even built a B10TL for the Chinese market when the B7TL was launched over here.

(08 Jun 2014, 10:04 am)DaveyBowyer wrote I know that there's nothing to light yet but I certainly don't think the Chinese will compromise on power for the sake of economy. They'll want big heavy and powerful double deckers built. Volvo even built a B10TL for the Chinese market when the B7TL was launched over here.

Yes, but look at the pollution levels in Beijing compared to somewhere like Newcastle or Middlesbrough. The fact of the matter is, with the new EU 'Euro 6' regulations, whatever new buses GNE buy for the TTX, they'll be 'green' whether you like it or not.

Also, while tri-axle vehicles would help with capacity, they'll be horrendous on fuel. Glasgow's Enviro 500s, for example, just drink diesel and it won't be good for a route that covers so many miles.

(08 Jun 2014, 10:14 am)BJ10VUS wrote Yes, but look at the pollution levels in Beijing compared to somewhere like Newcastle or Middlesbrough. The fact of the matter is, with the new EU 'Euro 6' regulations, whatever new buses GNE buy for the TTX, they'll be 'green' whether you like it or not.

Also, while tri-axle vehicles would help with capacity, they'll be horrendous on fuel. Glasgow's Enviro 500s, for example, just drink diesel and it won't be good for a route that covers so many miles.

But with a new powerful engine, tri axile and if GNE opted to choose the correct gearbox, the reliability would be pretty good. What I've noticed is that GNE will compromise on economy where reliability will suffer. If they were that concerned about economy, they would've ordered the DB300 or E400 rather than the B9TL for many of the B9TL routes. GNE clearly statedd back in 2011 when they ordered the B9TL was that they wanted a bigger engine to improve reliability and they've done that. But all they need to do for the next step is to combine that with the correct gearing ratios and general build for long distances. The B8TL would still be Euro 6 if Volvo went ahead with it. Put it this way, a Euro 6 tri axial would use the same amount if not, slightly more fuel than a Palatine 2. But the reliability with a 280bhp engine (no turbocharging) and a good gearing and build setup would be very good.

(08 Jun 2014, 10:14 am)BJ10VUS wrote Yes, but look at the pollution levels in Beijing compared to somewhere like Newcastle or Middlesbrough. The fact of the matter is, with the new EU 'Euro 6' regulations, whatever new buses GNE buy for the TTX, they'll be 'green' whether you like it or not.

Also, while tri-axle vehicles would help with capacity, they'll be horrendous on fuel. Glasgow's Enviro 500s, for example, just drink diesel and it won't be good for a route that covers so many miles.

Glasgow's Enviro 500s are the old model. Alexander Dennis have since introduced a much updated version, which at Euro 6 should be better on fuel.

My predictions :
LASER 35. 18 Volvo B5 allowing 11 Mercedes Citaro to go on Highywayman, plus a spare. 6 Scania go red to replace Volvo B10.

PRINCE BISHOP 20. 12 Volvo B5 allowing 12 Scania to go red for Volvo B10 replacement.

This would allow 5201~04, 5211~17(11 buses) to replace 5151~59,5165,5166 at Percy Main.

4968-72 would replace 5160-64 at Saltmeadows on service 5.

CRUSADER 27

No investment in 2014, with Prince Bishop receiving this instead.

LIME 8/78

15(13+2) Mercedes Citaro, allowing 4850-55 to be withdrawn.

TOONLINK 11,31,32,47

15 Long Streetlites (13+2) allowing 4841/5144-50 to be withdrawn, and 4978-82 to replace 5167-71.
Revised branding name and colours, possibly going into Venture colours.

FAB57

5167-71 withdrawn and replaced by Volvo B7 4978-82.
Toonlink colours and name retained.

All articulated buses kept in service, until 2015, allowing further evaluation of euro 6 types.

Withdrawn 4841-47,4850-55, 4896-4911, 5144-71. Total 56.

New B5 6118-6151(33), Streetlite 5391-5405 (15), Mercedes Citaro 5406-21 (15) total 63.
Difference of 7 allows 4912-25 to be kept for float vehicles allowing 5234-5319 to be refurbished.


Predictions for 2015.

Quaylink Versa 8311-19 moved to Percy Main, and rebranded as Centurion keeping pale yellow.

(17 Jun 2014, 12:52 pm)minibus1474 wrote My predictions :
LASER 35. 18 Volvo B5 allowing 11 Mercedes Citaro to go on Highywayman, plus a spare. 6 Scania go red to replace Volvo B10.

PRINCE BISHOP 20. 12 Volvo B5 allowing 12 Scania to go red for Volvo B10 replacement.

This would allow 5201~04, 5211~17(11 buses) to replace 5151~59,5165,5166 at Percy Main.

4968-72 would replace 5160-64 at Saltmeadows on service 5.

CRUSADER 27

No investment in 2014, with Prince Bishop receiving this instead.

LIME 8/78

15(13+2) Mercedes Citaro, allowing 4850-55 to be withdrawn.

TOONLINK 11,31,32,47

15 Long Streetlites (13+2) allowing 4841/5144-50 to be withdrawn, and 4978-82 to replace 5167-71.
Revised branding name and colours, possibly going into Venture colours.

FAB57

5167-71 withdrawn and replaced by Volvo B7 4978-82.
Toonlink colours and name retained.

All articulated buses kept in service, until 2015, allowing further evaluation of euro 6 types.


Predictions for 2015.

Quaylink Versa 8311-19 moved to Percy Main, and rebranded as Centurion keeping pale yellow.

The X66 was confirmed to be getting new buses this year along with the Lime, the current citaro bendies should be withdrawn, as for the ones on the X40.. not sure.

(17 Jun 2014, 12:52 pm)minibus1474 wrote Predictions for 2015.

Quaylink Versa 8311-19 moved to Percy Main, and rebranded as Centurion keeping pale yellow.

As a side-note, the "QuayLink" branded Optare Versas, when displaced, will be due for a repaint.

(17 Jun 2014, 1:09 pm)Michael wrote The X66 was confirmed to be getting new buses this year along with the Lime, the current citaro bendies should be withdrawn, as for the ones on the X40.. not sure.

Not confirmed, but strongly suggested.

What I will say is that Go North East are familiar with the process of part exchanging vehicles to fund the purchase of brand new Optare products.

I'd say that the 27 could be the perfect candidate for the E400 MMC though. It's not too demanding and could give GNE the opportinuty trial the two spares on B9TL services that will need replacing in the foreseeable future excluding the TTX.

(17 Jun 2014, 5:00 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I'd say that the 27 could be the perfect candidate for the E400 MMC though. It's not too demanding and could give GNE the opportinuty trial the two spares on B9TL services that will need replacing in the foreseeable future excluding the TTX.

It's highly unlikely that Go North East will buy any Enviro 400 MMC, considerding the lack of current Alexander Dennis buses in the fleet, and the fact that it would introduce another chassis type to the company.

I'd say that the MMC offering is better than the Volvo B5TL for City, Urban and Sub Urban work though due to the extra power compared to the B5TL. Mind you though, I don't know after the troubles that GNE had with the 2000 Dennis Trident Lolynes.

(18 Jun 2014, 9:26 am)DaveyBowyer wrote I'd say that the MMC offering is better than the Volvo B5TL for City, Urban and Sub Urban work though due to the extra power compared to the B5TL. Mind you though, I don't know after the troubles that GNE had with the 2000 Dennis Trident Lolynes.

The B5TL despite it low power is better at climbing hills than the B9TL, as it is a lighter bus. The MMC will likely be heavier has it still uses full depth glass, unlike the Gemini 3.

Power is irrelevant as you need to look at the power to weight ratio. A heavy high powered bus is just as good as a light low powered bus.

(20 Jun 2014, 9:43 am)Scott wrote The B5TL despite it low power is better at climbing hills than the B9TL, as it is a lighter bus. The MMC will likely be heavier has it still uses full depth glass, unlike the Gemini 3.

Power is irrelevant as you need to look at the power to weight ratio. A heavy high powered bus is just as good as a light low powered bus.

What about them struggling in Edinburgh though? The B9TL climbs hills well. On the Cradlewell by pass towards Corner House, the DB300 doesn't pick up pace as well as the B9TL and despite when the fact the B5LH engine engages after a short stint, it still doesn't pick up pace as well as the B9TL.

Has anyone rode 6099 or 6100 up Houghton Cut yet?
It will be interesting to compare it to the Solars or ex - London President or Vyking attempts.

(20 Jun 2014, 2:17 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Has anyone rode 6099 or 6100 up Houghton Cut yet?
It will be interesting to compare it to the Solars or ex - London President or Vyking attempts.

I had 6099 on the 20A to Sunderland on Wednesday and I thought it did quite well at getting up there.

Dont think the 17 will get anything and as far as im aware the centurion brand has been scrapped again i was puzzled when they brought it back considering it was scrapped along with its routes, and the 27 just recieved buses off the 10,i think the loop 93/94 might be due some new buses along with the highwayman

(20 Jun 2014, 6:20 pm)V514DFT wrote Dont think the 17 will get anything and as far as im aware the centurion brand has been scrapped again i was puzzled when they brought it back considering it was scrapped along with its routes, and the 27 just recieved buses off the 10,i think the loop 93/94 might be due some new buses along with the highwayman

As far as I am aware, the Renowns allocated to service 17 remained in yellow as an exercise to save a few pennies. They were branded as "The Centurion" to cover up any marks left behind by their "Blaydon Racers" branding, in addition to the fact it would have been quite silly to leave them in plain yellow!

Percy Main allocated them to service 9 almost every day, and branding them clearly didn't work out because of that. As such, they had to be repainted and in the long run, more money was spent as a result.

Few times the renowns ended up on the 310 and 80 and the mercs were on the 17, but the 17 will never get new buses because its ran by 3 companies now, but i do think the 93/94 mght get some soon maybe not this year but maybe next

Why didn't GNE take the MMC out for a trial like what they're doing for the B5TL? I know I've been a bit hmm towards it but with the exception of the TTX, they'd be OK and for the TEN and Red Arrows, GNE could order the Scania / Cummins chassis rather than the ADL chassis to have a bit more power. I know that the MMC would be a good replacement for the Angel hybrids when they end up in the same state as the B7TL Gemini's.