(24 Aug 2014, 1:00 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote You wouldn't believe how many people are totally incapable of understanding a timetable.

Quite common.
A lot of people assume everyone has the ability to read one - unfortunately, not everyone can (for whatever reason).

(24 Aug 2014, 1:00 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote You wouldn't believe how many people are totally incapable of understanding a timetable.

Is it really hard to just read down a list of times on a piece of paper? All you need to know when using one is which journey you're planning to make, where you are getting on (which should be easy), get a timetable and look down the list to see when the bus is due (or when the bus is due at the closest place to your actual stop). To me, there is nothing hard about that...

The only people that should have difficulty are people with needs that makes it difficult to read, most of these people however can probably read them but cant be bothered to look for themselves (the people on the fb page asking). I know its bad to make judgements but its probably correct.

The timetables displayed on the bus stop poles are complicated by M-F, Sat and Sunday/BH restrictions which means several listings are not valid (this was the case with the two men consulting the timetable - especially as the stop serves both directions so there were at least half a dozen times that weren't relevant).

(24 Aug 2014, 2:22 pm)Robert wrote Is it really hard to just read down a list of times on a piece of paper? All you need to know when using one is which journey you're planning to make, where you are getting on (which should be easy), get a timetable and look down the list to see when the bus is due (or when the bus is due at the closest place to your actual stop). To me, there is nothing hard about that...

The only people that should have difficulty are people with needs that makes it difficult to read, most of these people however can probably read them but cant be bothered to look for themselves (the people on the fb page asking). I know its bad to make judgements but its probably correct.

A surprising number of people cannot read a full bus timetable at all, others cannot understand the principle that if their stop doesn't have its own time, they need to use the nearest time BEFORE their stop. Also many people misunderstand column headings like NS, S, Sch, etc. They may find it easier to use the list of departures on bus stops, rather than a full timetable such as those in leaflets. And many of the people who can't read timetables can read perfectly well and don't have learning difficulties; they just can't deal with timetables. They may often be the people who don't realise they need to put their hand out to stop a bus and wonder why it sails by.

(24 Aug 2014, 4:42 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote A surprising number of people cannot read a full bus timetable at all, others cannot understand the principle that if their stop doesn't have its own time, they need to use the nearest time BEFORE their stop. Also many people misunderstand column headings like NS, S, Sch, etc. They may find it easier to use the list of departures on bus stops, rather than a full timetable such as those in leaflets. And many of the people who can't read timetables can read perfectly well and don't have learning difficulties; they just can't deal with timetables. They may often be the people who don't realise they need to put their hand out to stop a bus and wonder why it sails by.

Well dont you think people should start telling these people how to read it? Timetables dont get published to be ignored which is exactly what these people are doing. If they dont know how to read it then they can do what we all had to do and learn.

(24 Aug 2014, 5:01 pm)Robert wrote Well dont you think people should start telling these people how to read it? Timetables dont get published to be ignored which is exactly what these people are doing. If they dont know how to read it then they can do what we all had to do and learn.

If I'm honest, I've never found it hard. I think the newest Nexus ones are the easiest to read in terms of finding the hour and minutes, although I'm not a big fan of the design myself. Also, just out of interest, does anyone know what was used on the Metrocentre/Lancastrian Suite Shuttle yesterday?

(24 Aug 2014, 5:01 pm)Robert wrote Well dont you think people should start telling these people how to read it? Timetables dont get published to be ignored which is exactly what these people are doing. If they dont know how to read it then they can do what we all had to do and learn.

Don't you think at the same time though that timetables should be designed with more consideration given to user experience? Nexus timetables are fine, as they list the minutes past each hour, service number, destination, and also an indication of how long it will take to each point. Durham examples are poor, being just a huge list of times ascending, the service number and destination.

Bus stop timetables in Northumberland are published and maintained by Northumberland County Council.

Some list all departures regardless of operator whilst a few have 'patches' with individual operators displayed (Hexham Railway Station is one of the latter).

(24 Aug 2014, 5:54 pm)aureolin wrote Don't you think at the same time though that timetables should be designed with more consideration given to user experience? Nexus timetables are fine, as they list the minutes past each hour, service number, destination, and also an indication of how long it will take to each point. Durham examples are poor, being just a huge list of times ascending, the service number and destination.

im on about actual leaflet timetables here rather that bus stop ones. Same thing though, nothing is stopping them fro learning how to use them.

(24 Aug 2014, 5:01 pm)Robert wrote Well dont you think people should start telling these people how to read it? Timetables dont get published to be ignored which is exactly what these people are doing. If they dont know how to read it then they can do what we all had to do and learn.

I know it is a long shot, what if a person is illiterate and actually can't read?

(24 Aug 2014, 6:06 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I know it is a long shot, what if a person is illiterate and actually can't read?

I agree, some people take years to understand and become capable. I remember reading that Jamie Oliver read his first book at the age of 38, due to his dyslexia.

(24 Aug 2014, 6:06 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I know it is a long shot, what if a person is illiterate and actually can't read?

As i said in my original post, not been able to read (due to any condition that stops them from doing so) is perfectly understandable. Its the people who can read but still ask that i have the problem with...

(24 Aug 2014, 6:06 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I know it is a long shot, what if a person is illiterate and actually can't read?

Would someone who cannot read be contacting the Facebook page?

(24 Aug 2014, 6:08 pm)Robert wrote As i said in my original post, not been able to read (due to any condition that stops them from doing so) is perfectly understandable. Its the people who can read but still ask that i have the problem with...

I must say some people are as thick as pig shirt, have no common sense, and 1 brain cell among fellow idiots

(24 Aug 2014, 6:11 pm)G-CPTN wrote Would someone who cannot read be contacting the Facebook page?

No they wouldn't...

But my point had nothing to do with Facebook, I was thinking about Timetables at Bus Stops and Bus Stations

(24 Aug 2014, 6:08 pm)Robert wrote As i said in my original post, not been able to read (due to any condition that stops them from doing so) is perfectly understandable. Its the people who can read but still ask that i have the problem with...

Some people can read but don't read them properly, I was in Ferryhill once and someone thought there was not a 33 for another hour because the time was underneath the previous journey and he obviously read the times sideways.

(24 Aug 2014, 5:01 pm)Robert wrote Well dont you think people should start telling these people how to read it? Timetables dont get published to be ignored which is exactly what these people are doing. If they dont know how to read it then they can do what we all had to do and learn.

If you think.about it, you will have seen it in maths lessons at school.
There is generally always questions relating to a simplified bus timetable - as handling data/extracting data is part of the curriculum.

(24 Aug 2014, 7:01 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote If you think.about it, you will have seen it in maths lessons at school.
There is generally always questions relating to a simplified bus timetable - as handling data/extracting data is part of the curriculum.

I was thinking it's one of the very first things you cover as part of the GCSE syllabus, and that comes from the Key Stage 3 Maths syllabus itself...

Easy marks in an exam for most, I suspect.

(24 Aug 2014, 7:01 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote If you think.about it, you will have seen it in maths lessons at school.
There is generally always questions relating to a simplified bus timetable - as handling data/extracting data is part of the curriculum.

There is always the obligatory bus timetable on maths exams, I never did a maths exam without one, it was the only question I could answer in most maths tests

Some people are excluded from school (either voluntarily or officially).
Then there are those who attend but don't participate . . .

(24 Aug 2014, 7:17 pm)G-CPTN wrote Some people are excluded from school (either voluntarily or officially).
Then there are those who attend but don't participate . . .

Is it really that hard to answer what most timetable questions are? 'How long does it take to get from point A (place) to point B (place). All you need to do is round it up to the nearest hour (if needed) and go from there. Either way, you are still studying a timetable which is exactly why i cant understand people not been able to use them. This however is a point i didnt think about until Andreos mentioned it a few posts back.

(24 Aug 2014, 7:32 pm)Robert wrote Is it really that hard to answer what most timetable questions are? 'How long does it take to get from point A (place) to point B (place). All you need to do is round it up to the nearest hour (if needed) and go from there. Either way, you are still studying a timetable which is exactly why i cant understand people not been able to use them. This however is a point i didnt think about until Andreos mentioned it a few posts back.

Everyone has their brain wired up differently.
There will be things you 'get' or 'find easy', that others don't and vice versa.

(24 Aug 2014, 7:40 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Everyone has their brain wired up differently.
There will be things you 'get' or 'find easy', that others don't and vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2eyq9qTOQY

(and there's several more . . . )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8DNGh126oM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDm2eyq9qTOQY&v=tOFJpsDmKvU

(24 Aug 2014, 8:08 pm)G-CPTN wrote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2eyq9qTOQY

(and there's several more . . . )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8DNGh126oM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDm2eyq9qTOQY&v=tOFJpsDmKvU

Email which I have just Received from Go North East Customer Services, See Wellsey even on Bank Holiday Monday, Go North East respond to Customer Complaints, Plus I only emailed them Late Saturday Evening.

Dear Adam

We are sorry that you have had reason to contact us to complain about the late running of our services. The details of your complaint have been forwarded to the depot manager for investigation and to monitor these service to improve reliability. We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused you.

Yours sincerely
Christine
Customer Services

(25 Aug 2014, 3:25 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Email which I have just Received from Go North East Customer Services, See Wellsey even on Bank Holiday Monday, Go North East respond to Customer Complaints, Plus I only emailed them Late Saturday Evening.

Dear Adam

We are sorry that you have had reason to contact us to complain about the late running of our services. The details of your complaint have been forwarded to the depot manager for investigation and to monitor these service to improve reliability. We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused you.

Yours sincerely
Christine
Customer Services

Fair enough, I'm just sceptical of how much of a difference it makes in the grand scheme of things

(25 Aug 2014, 3:53 pm)Wellsey18 wrote Fair enough, I'm just sceptical of how much of a difference it makes in the grand scheme of things

I'd assume management would get complaint statistics every month or quarter. They'd usually deep dive those statistics into categories, and then further down to specifics. So it all helps. I'd be surprised if operators didn't do that anyway!

(25 Aug 2014, 3:53 pm)Wellsey18 wrote Fair enough, I'm just sceptical of how much of a difference it makes in the grand scheme of things

Well, nothing will instantly change, considering it takes a minimum of 56 days to get a service change and do VOSA "stuff", as well as the fact a new timetable would have to be planned, and so on. You'll have to be patient, but you never know...

(25 Aug 2014, 7:50 pm)aureolin wrote I'd assume management would get complaint statistics every month or quarter. They'd usually deep dive those statistics into categories, and then further down to specifics. So it all helps. I'd be surprised if operators didn't do that anyway!

Indeed. Like I said yesterday, feedback (positive or negative) all helps improve the bus network.

One could suggest that regular service changes are bad (and arguably this may be so if bus operators are constantly cutting at individual runs which aren't profitable), but if service changes are designed to improve reliability and increase customer convenience, I'd suggest it's the opposite...

I'm very surprised (and impressed) that Go North East got back in touch with Adam today - kudos to them, and a good customer service experience which should be logged in our "Customer Services" thread!

(25 Aug 2014, 7:55 pm)BJ10VUS wrote Well, nothing will instantly change, considering it takes a minimum of 56 days to get a service change and do VOSA "stuff", as well as the fact a new timetable would have to be planned, and so on. You'll have to be patient, but you never know...

Each service is regularly reviewed - profits being taken, lost mileage, customer complaints (you get the picture). As you say, nothing will instantaneously happen as a result of Adam's complaint, but providing others have experienced services M2/M3 being late regularly too, things definitely could change in the future.

If services are running late and a PVR increase can be justified (ie the vehicles are available and it is thought that the service won't suddenly make a loss), the PVR will increase. A recent example of this is on the TEN network of services.
If a PVR increase cannot be justified, the company may look at re-routing the service to see if that works better. Any service suggestions made to the company via e-mail or to the local press will then be considered. I think we could consider a recent example of this being the Toon Link, where service 11 has been re-routed slightly at Crawcrook.
If lost mileage as a result of breakdowns is the issue, and the service is worthy of an upgrade, it will be discussed by members of management who can then look at the future fleet position (especially when new buses are due) to see if newer or more reliable vehicles can be drafted in. A recent example of this is on the Wear Tees Xpress service.

It's a waiting game from now. Like I say, as an irregular user of the M2/M3 services, I have not had any issues with timekeeping (so I'd suggest that there's not a massive problem as I can't hit lucky with buses being on time every time I use them). If issues have been reported on several occasions and lost mileage figures provide evidence for there being an issue, progression for improvements may be made.

(24 Aug 2014, 1:15 pm)aureolin wrote I agree. In that instance people should simply be referred to the view all timetables URL.

It's hardly strenuous task for the customer services to look at their service times, if people are needing a bus quick and are on there phones downloading timetables isn't always easy. Often people don't know which service too.
And if I'm wanting a bus between Sunderland & Monkwearmouth or Newcastle to Gateshead there's a whole host of service go between those locations downloading each service timetable isn't practically when Customer Services can do it and help the customer.