Expect delays on services which use the A690/A19 Dox Park junction.
Work to begin on improving it pretty soon!

It isn't that long since work was done to extend/widen the southbound exit slip from the A19 - but more work to be done.

(20 Sep 2014, 12:19 am)Washingtonian wrote Yes I have. I can't understand why they allocate a Double Decker to services W5 and W6 when they are supposed to be allocated MPDs. The W5 and W6 certainly don't justify the need for a bigger bus in my opinion. The deckers would be better suited to the M2 and M3.

In my mind that is a Daily Occurrence which been happening for over a Year now, and needs be addressed by Go North East, but it has been a lot worse in the last 2 Weeks, in Particular this week.

This week has seen a South Tyne Versa off route everyday, Monday saw 8300 on the 4 which I Photographed, as for the rest of the week I have seen one daily on the M2/M3 and I wouldn't be surprised if one ended up on the W5/W6 also, Wednesday was quite Interesting as 4961/64 were both on the 88/88A whilst a Versa was again on the Washington Local Services, 4961 then saw use on the X1 and was Photographed by Bazza on Thursday, Just to note the usage of a Solar is not first time in the past few weeks on the X1.

Furthermore what some Enthusiasts may forget is that Washington Depot are down 2 Vehicles following Engine Fires earlier this year, and Washington didn't receive any replacement Vehicles as a Result, although admittedly they have been able to cope with there Allocations since then, But then if there is quite a few Vehicles in the Depot "VOR", Then those Allocations go to pot, which has been identified above.

Go North East are fully aware of the poor Reliability of the Cadets and the affects it is having on Washington's Services, following an email from myself Last Month where I had experienced Services M2/M3 Running severely Late or simply not turning up at all, Clearly Go North East have responded to that by Monitoring those Services otherwise there wouldn't be changes to improve Reliability in November.

I do think it worth keeping a close eye on to if this continues to happen in the coming weeks, as it is almost if not worse than the Allocations which Stanley and Percy Main Depot provide on a Daily Basis.

4853 has broken down at The Galleries on a Stanley bound 8, also seen 8248/8260 running together on the M2/M3 to Birtley about 20 Minutes ago

(20 Sep 2014, 1:17 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote 4853 has broken down at The Galleries on a Stanley bound 8, also seen 8248/8260 running together on the M2/M3 to Birtley about 20 Minutes ago

Recovery Truck has just arrived for 4853 while the X1's are running in 3's towards Easington Lane and the 4's are also running Late.

(20 Sep 2014, 8:15 am)aureolin wrote Because the 88 is unsuitable for deckers because of a low bridge, so if there are issues, an MPD will head over that way, leaving a decker for the W5/W6.

Yeah I see where you are coming from but surely there should plenty of single deckers available for the 88 such as Cadets, Versas, Scanias etc. Even if the 88 needed to use an MPD surely it would be better to allocate a cadet to the W5/W6 instead of a decker. It just seems silly using a douible decker for services which are so quiet. I have often seen only 5 or 6 passengers on board from the Galleries to Barmston Court/Columbia. Services M2 and M3 get much better loadings so surely they should be alloacted the deckers if needed.

(20 Sep 2014, 12:28 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote In my mind that is a Daily Occurrence which been happening for over a Year now, and needs be addressed by Go North East, but it has been a lot worse in the last 2 Weeks, in Particular this week.

This week has seen a South Tyne Versa off route everyday, Monday saw 8300 on the 4 which I Photographed, as for the rest of the week I have seen one daily on the M2/M3 and I wouldn't be surprised if one ended up on the W5/W6 also, Wednesday was quite Interesting as 4961/64 were both on the 88/88A whilst a Versa was again on the Washington Local Services, 4961 then saw use on the X1 and was Photographed by Bazza on Thursday, Just to note the usage of a Solar is not first time in the past few weeks on the X1.

Furthermore what some Enthusiasts may forget is that Washington Depot are down 2 Vehicles following Engine Fires earlier this year, and Washington didn't receive any replacement Vehicles as a Result, although admittedly they have been able to cope with there Allocations since then, But then if there is quite a few Vehicles in the Depot "VOR", Then those Allocations go to pot, which has been identified above.

Go North East are fully aware of the poor Reliability of the Cadets and the affects it is having on Washington's Services, following an email from myself Last Month where I had experienced Services M2/M3 Running severely Late or simply not turning up at all, Clearly Go North East have responded to that by Monitoring those Services otherwise there wouldn't be changes to improve Reliability in November.

I do think it worth keeping a close eye on to if this continues to happen in the coming weeks, as it is almost if not worse than the Allocations which Stanley and Percy Main Depot provide on a Daily Basis.

In some ways I think GNE may have been better keeping hold of some of the MPDs they let go early in the year. They were much more reliable than the cadets and better suited to some routes.


I know that 8249 had an engine fire earlier this year but was it not replaced with another cadet? I thought I saw somewhere that it was replaced by a 04 reg cadet. Also which other Washington vehicle had an engine fire?

Yeah I see where you are coming from but surely there should plenty of single deckers available for the 88 such as Cadets, Versas, Scanias etc. Even if the 88 needed to use an MPD surely it would be better to allocate a cadet to the W5/W6 instead of a decker. It just seems silly using a douible decker for services which are so quiet. I have often seen only 5 or 6 passengers on board from the Galleries to Barmston Court/Columbia. Services M2 and M3 get much better loadings so surely they should be alloacted the deckers if needed.

Problem is if you were to allocate all of the single deckers to service and there was only double deckers spare in the depot and a bus broke down on the 88 you may as well have no buses in the depot as double deckers aren't suitable on the 88, so double deckers are sometimes allocated to other services to make sure they have single deckers spare for the 88.

(20 Sep 2014, 4:24 pm)Washingtonian wrote In some ways I think GNE may have been better keeping hold of some of the MPDs they let go early in the year. They were much more reliable than the cadets and better suited to some routes.


I know that 8249 had an engine fire earlier this year but was it not replaced with another cadet? I thought I saw somewhere that it was replaced by a 04 reg cadet. Also which other Washington vehicle had an engine fire?

No replacement was given to Washington after 8249s fire and it was 8250 that also had an engine fire.

(20 Sep 2014, 4:14 pm)Washingtonian wrote Yeah I see where you are coming from but surely there should plenty of single deckers available for the 88 such as Cadets, Versas, Scanias etc. Even if the 88 needed to use an MPD surely it would be better to allocate a cadet to the W5/W6 instead of a decker. It just seems silly using a douible decker for services which are so quiet. I have often seen only 5 or 6 passengers on board from the Galleries to Barmston Court/Columbia. Services M2 and M3 get much better loadings so surely they should be alloacted the deckers if needed.

In the event of a branded vehicle being unavailable, a Scania L94UB/Wright Solar should be allocated to service 88/88A. However, these are also the 'red spares' for service 4 too. Washington has four, but one is allocated to service 88 on a daily basis as it interworks with a scholars service which stipulates the use of a full sized single decker, meaning that there are three spare vehicles to share between a PVR of 20 (which, to be honest, should be enough spares).

Washington has no spare Cadets at the moment, and all of these vehicles should be allocated to services M2/M3, and they have one spare MPD which should be allocated to services W5/W6. MPD 544, which is on loan to Washington until the end of this month for the shuttle service being operated in Hebburn on behalf of Northumbrian Water, has been VOR a number of times - meaning that Washington has had to dig into their own spare MPD fleet to cover for this vehicle.

This means that the only spare vehicles Washington tends to have are Volvo B7TLs. Those that aren't allocated to service X1 to cover for branded vehicles, and those that aren't allocated to scholar services, are allocated to services M2/M3 and W5/W6. Even if Washington did have the ability to use the spare MPD, double deckers are preferable on services M2/M3 because MPDs can and would be overcrowded at some points during the day.

(20 Sep 2014, 4:24 pm)Washingtonian wrote In some ways I think GNE may have been better keeping hold of some of the MPDs they let go early in the year. They were much more reliable than the cadets and better suited to some routes.


I know that 8249 had an engine fire earlier this year but was it not replaced with another cadet? I thought I saw somewhere that it was replaced by a 04 reg cadet. Also which other Washington vehicle had an engine fire?

You're thinking of 8260, which was the "Northern" branded spare for services 88/88A, when the other Cadets were branded "South Tyne". This vehicle has been at Washington since May 2012, and was not transferred to cover for the loss of 8249.

As already pointed out, 8250 was the other Cadet which suffered an engine bay fire - this time near Wardley. The vehicle's damage was not severe and it is still undergoing repairs. Again, no spare vehicle was provided.

(20 Sep 2014, 4:30 pm)Jimmi wrote Problem is if you were to allocate all of the single deckers to service and there was only double deckers spare in the depot and a bus broke down on the 88 you may as well have no buses in the depot as double deckers aren't suitable on the 88, so double deckers are sometimes allocated to other services to make sure they have single deckers spare for the 88.

A point I hadn't thought of, and a very valid one at that. I imagine you're right, and this will also influence some of the allocations for Washington too.

(20 Sep 2014, 4:54 pm)Dan wrote In the event of a branded vehicle being unavailable, a Scania L94UB/Wright Solar should be allocated to service 88/88A. However, these are also the 'red spares' for service 4 too. Washington has four, but one is allocated to service 88 on a daily basis as it interworks with a scholars service which stipulates the use of a full sized single decker, meaning that there are three spare vehicles to share between a PVR of 20 (which, to be honest, should be enough spares).

Washington has no spare Cadets at the moment, and all of these vehicles should be allocated to services M2/M3, and they have one spare MPD which should be allocated to services W5/W6. MPD 544, which is on loan to Washington until the end of this month for the shuttle service being operated in Hebburn on behalf of Northumbrian Water, has been VOR a number of times - meaning that Washington has had to dig into their own spare MPD fleet to cover for this vehicle.

This means that the only spare vehicles Washington tends to have are Volvo B7TLs. Those that aren't allocated to service X1 to cover for branded vehicles, and those that aren't allocated to scholar services, are allocated to services M2/M3 and W5/W6. Even if Washington did have the ability to use the spare MPD, double deckers are preferable on services M2/M3 because MPDs can and would be overcrowded at some points during the day.


You're thinking of 8260, which was the "Northern" branded spare for services 88/88A, when the other Cadets were branded "South Tyne". This vehicle has been at Washington since May 2012, and was not transferred to cover for the loss of 8249.

As already pointed out, 8250 was the other Cadet which suffered an engine bay fire - this time near Wardley. The vehicle's damage was not severe and it is still undergoing repairs. Again, no spare vehicle was provided.


A point I hadn't thought of, and a very valid one at that. I imagine you're right, and this will also influence some of the allocations for Washington too.

With the AD122 finishing on the 28th September this will result in 524/535 becoming Spare, Perhaps they should be Transferred to Washington to prevent Washington from allocating Volvo B7TL's to the M2/M3/W5 and W6, This would also cover the loss of 8249/8250. On the other hand I can see 524 being Withdrawn and 535 getting Transferred back to Deptford/Peterlee for the East Durham Network.

(20 Sep 2014, 5:16 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote With the AD122 finishing on the 28th September this will result in 524/535 becoming Spare, Perhaps they should be Transferred to Washington to prevent Washington from allocating Volvo B7TL's to the M2/M3/W5 and W6, This would also cover the loss of 8249/8250. On the other hand I can see 524 being Withdrawn and 535 getting Transferred back to Deptford/Peterlee for the East Durham Network.

As I understand it, Dennis MPD 535 has been withdrawn due to engine failure - hence why Dennis MPD 542 is on loan to Hexham from Deptford in its place. I'm inclined to suggest that this vehicle will be sold with immediate effect. I can't see Go North East wasting time or money on repairing it (engine overhauls can be fairly expensive, and they're also a rather long process in most cases), so I'd suggest that it'll be making a one-way road trip to Alpha, though I could be wrong.

At the end of this month, MPD 542 will transfer back to Deptford, allowing Scania L94 4935 to transfer to Chester-le-Street, which will lead to the ultimate 'official' withdrawal of Volvo B10BLE 4852 (though as we know, this vehicle has already been withdrawn).

I think that Dennis MPD 524 will remain in service as a reserve vehicle. I don't think you'll find a yellow liveried vehicle acting as an additional spare for services which are allocated red corporate liveried vehicles, though...

(20 Sep 2014, 5:24 pm)Dan wrote As I understand it, Dennis MPD 535 has been withdrawn due to engine failure - hence why Dennis MPD 542 is on loan to Hexham from Deptford in its place. I'm inclined to suggest that this vehicle will be sold with immediate effect. I can't see Go North East wasting time or money on repairing it (engine overhauls can be fairly expensive, and they're also a rather long process in most cases), so I'd suggest that it'll be making a one-way road trip to Alpha, though I could be wrong.

At the end of this month, MPD 542 will transfer back to Deptford, allowing Scania L94 4935 to transfer to Chester-le-Street, which will lead to the ultimate 'official' withdrawal of Volvo B10BLE 4852 (though as we know, this vehicle has already been withdrawn).

I think that Dennis MPD 524 will remain in service as a reserve vehicle. I don't think you'll find a yellow liveried vehicle acting as an additional spare for services which are allocated red corporate liveried vehicles, though...

News to me regarding 535 Dan, obviously I have missed something somewhere in the Past Week or so, I'm guessing Withdrawal will depend on the extent of the Failure of the Engine, as it could be anything which caused it to fail, might be the case of simply needing a New Part or something, hopefully it isn't bad and can be repaired.

(20 Sep 2014, 5:24 pm)Dan wrote As I understand it, Dennis MPD 535 has been withdrawn due to engine failure - hence why Dennis MPD 542 is on loan to Hexham from Deptford in its place. I'm inclined to suggest that this vehicle will be sold with immediate effect. I can't see Go North East wasting time or money on repairing it (engine overhauls can be fairly expensive, and they're also a rather long process in most cases), so I'd suggest that it'll be making a one-way road trip to Alpha, though I could be wrong.

At the end of this month, MPD 542 will transfer back to Deptford, allowing Scania L94 4935 to transfer to Chester-le-Street, which will lead to the ultimate 'official' withdrawal of Volvo B10BLE 4852 (though as we know, this vehicle has already been withdrawn).

I think that Dennis MPD 524 will remain in service as a reserve vehicle. I don't think you'll find a yellow liveried vehicle acting as an additional spare for services which are allocated red corporate liveried vehicles, though...

Wonder if Hexham keep 524, whilst 555-9 are repainted ?

(20 Sep 2014, 5:57 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote News to me regarding 535 Dan, obviously I have missed something somewhere in the Past Week or so, I'm guessing Withdrawal will depend on the extent of the Failure of the Engine, as it could be anything which caused it to fail, might be the case of simply needing a New Part or something, hopefully it isn't bad and can be repaired.

535 was up on jacks in Riverside depot last week.

(20 Sep 2014, 5:57 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote News to me regarding 535 Dan, obviously I have missed something somewhere in the Past Week or so, I'm guessing Withdrawal will depend on the extent of the Failure of the Engine, as it could be anything which caused it to fail, might be the case of simply needing a New Part or something, hopefully it isn't bad and can be repaired.

I'm not sure whether I noted it before or not, so you mightn't have missed it.
It's also the reason why MPD 548 saw brief use at Hexham, as they had nowt else in the depot!

(20 Sep 2014, 6:01 pm)park5354 wrote Wonder if Hexham keep 524, whilst 555-9 are repainted ?

Wonder if the same could be said for other MPDs in the fleet which aren't based at Hexham..?

(20 Sep 2014, 6:06 pm)Dan wrote I'm not sure whether I noted it before or not, so you mightn't have missed it.
It's also the reason why MPD 548 saw brief use at Hexham, as they had nowt else in the depot!

Makes sense now that you mentioned 548 Dan as I seen that mentioned in the News a few weeks ago, and I photographed 548 Myself twice since it returned to Deptford, but I wasn't aware that was the reason it was at Hexham, thanks for clearing that up Dan.

(20 Sep 2014, 6:06 pm)Dan wrote I'm not sure whether I noted it before or not, so you mightn't have missed it.
It's also the reason why MPD 548 saw brief use at Hexham, as they had nowt else in the depot!



Wonder if the same could be said for other MPDs in the fleet that aren't based at Hexham..?

"Cough" 560 "Cough"

524 & 535


Could always repair 535, then use 524 & 535 at Chester for service 71 during the winter.

(20 Sep 2014, 6:20 pm)park5354 wrote 524 & 535


Could always repair 535, then use 524 & 535 at Chester for service 71 during the winter.

Surely Go North East has group standards to meet, and adding more and more reserve vehicles to the fleet will be going in the opposite direction to what Go-Ahead want?

(20 Sep 2014, 6:23 pm)Dan wrote Surely Go North East has group standards to meet, and adding more and more reserve vehicles to the fleet will be going in the opposite direction to what Go-Ahead want?

Very true, with all the new vehicles that have came in, the % spare should decrease.

(20 Sep 2014, 6:30 pm)citaro5284 wrote Very true, with all the new vehicles that have came in, the % spare should decrease.

It's all good and well, so long as it doesn't come at the detriment of the customer. 

I've seen a number of times, and indeed suffered myself, when the vehicle I've been on has broken down, only to find out that a replacement "isn't available". I can understand it on a high frequency route, but couldn't on the two occasions I've broken down on the 50, on a length of the route that isn't covered by any other GNE buses.

(20 Sep 2014, 6:38 pm)aureolin wrote It's all good and well, so long as it doesn't come at the detriment of the customer. 

I've seen a number of times, and indeed suffered myself, when the vehicle I've been on has broken down, only to find out that a replacement "isn't available". I can understand it on a high frequency route, but couldn't on the two occasions I've broken down on the 50, on a length of the route that isn't covered by any other GNE buses.

Go-Ahead will know what spare percentage of vehicles is most appropriate - not only do they want to save money, but they also want to ensure that their customer satisfaction rate continues to be at a high level (which means that lost mileage has to be kept to a minimum!)

Go North East, like all other companies in the Go-Ahead Group, has targets to meet for lost mileage, as set by Go-Ahead. The individual companies will know the reasons why they are incurring lost mileage, and if lost mileage is being incurred due to no resources being available, the issue will be highlighted and raised in an executive Operations Meeting with Go-Ahead, which will allow the opportunity for individual companies to discuss the issue and make the appropriate changes in the fleet to ensure that it's less likely to happen again in the future.

(20 Sep 2014, 6:47 pm)Dan wrote Go-Ahead will know what spare percentage of vehicles is most appropriate - not only do they want to save money, but they don't want to lose mileage (which in turn causes a lower customer satisfaction rate).

Go North East, like all other companies in the Go-Ahead Group, has targets to meet for lost mileage, as set by Go-Ahead. The individual companies will know the reasons why they are incurring lost mileage, and if lost mileage is being incurred due to no resources being available, the issue will be highlighted and raised in an executive Operations Meeting with Go-Ahead, which will allow the opportunity for individual companies to discuss the issue and make the appropriate changes in the fleet to ensure that it's less likely to happen again in the future.

There's often a fine line though. Cutting runs with 'low usage' arguably causes a lower customer satisfaction rate (or people on to other forms of transport), but companies claim this is because it's not 'financially viable'. There's a hundred and one ways to prevent lost mileage, but if it's costing a company more than it's worth, then it'll sharp be thrown out as not financially viable. 

Probably why on the two occasions I mentioned above, the 50 I was travelling on was not replaced. Neither were at peak times, so buses being out on scholars/works duties couldn't come in to the reasoning.

Like I say though, it's all good and well if it's not at the detriment of the customer. I'm sure a company the size of GNE is capable of managing that expectation...

(20 Sep 2014, 7:00 pm)aureolin wrote Probably why on the two occasions I mentioned above, the 50 I was travelling on was not replaced. Neither were at peak times, so buses being out on scholars/works duties couldn't come in to the reasoning.

Not replaced....Are you sure about that?  Would have thought the replacement vehicle would have been dropped in further on route to maintain the service.

Are you saying you had to wait 30 minutes for the bus behind to pick you up and would this have been quicker than a vehicle coming from CLS depot anyway?

(20 Sep 2014, 7:12 pm)citaro5284 wrote Not replaced....Are you sure about that?  Would have thought the replacement vehicle would have been dropped in further on route to maintain the service.

Are you saying you had to wait 30 minutes for the bus behind to pick you up and would this have been quicker than a vehicle coming from CLS depot anyway?

Passengers who were on 4853 on the 8 towards Stanley did Today as it Broke Down at Washington Galleries as I noted earlier, and I am guessing a Replacement would of been dropped in at CLS to as you say Maintain Service.

(20 Sep 2014, 7:12 pm)citaro5284 wrote Not replaced....Are you sure about that?  Would have thought the replacement vehicle would have been dropped in further on route to maintain the service.

Are you saying you had to wait 30 minutes for the bus behind to pick you up and would this have been quicker than a vehicle coming from CLS depot anyway?

It may have been dropped in further on route, but it means nowt to the person sat waiting for 30 minutes. On both occasions the driver had said we'll have to wait for the next bus, and also on both occasions, the bus broke down on Pit Lane in Durham. I reckon it would have taken half that to drive the bus from the depot to there, so it all depends on how quick the administrative part of the task is?

I learnt my lesson about travelling without loose change though. Otherwise I would have caught the 64, and I have absolutely no doubt that GNE would have refunded the cost. To their credit, they always have in the past.

(20 Sep 2014, 7:17 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Passengers who were on 4853 on the 8 towards Stanley did Today as it Broke Down at Washington Galleries as I noted earlier, and I am guessing a Replacement would of been dropped in at CLS to as you say Maintain Service.

My question is what happens to those passengers wanting to travel to Stanley? A bus dropped in at CLS isn't going to help them. No bus to bus tickets available, so they'd be forced into purchasing either two singles or a day ticket, if they wanted to save some time by using the 50 as far as CLS...

(20 Sep 2014, 7:24 pm)aureolin wrote My question is what happens to those passengers wanting to travel to Stanley? A bus dropped in at CLS isn't going to help them. No bus to bus tickets available, so they'd be forced into purchasing either two singles or a day ticket, if they wanted to save some time by using the 50 as far as CLS...

Taken to Chester-le-Street free of charge on the 50 (assuming it comes before the next 8) and then they would be permitted to travel on services 8/78 from Chester-le-Street to Stanley using the tickets they purchased on the bus which broke down.

I've been on buses in the past where this has been the case. Ask DaveyBowyer if you need a reminder of how useful radios are to contact drivers!

(20 Sep 2014, 7:36 pm)Dan wrote Taken to Chester-le-Street free of charge on the 50 (assuming it comes before the next 8) and then they would be permitted to travel on services 8/78 from Chester-le-Street to Stanley using the tickets they purchased on the bus which broke down.

I've been on buses in the past where this has been the case. Ask DaveyBowyer if you need a reminder of how useful radios are to contact drivers!

That's great if that happened, and is certainly as good an alternative, as long as the communication is right.

Agree regarding radios. Can be a life saver at times.

(20 Sep 2014, 7:24 pm)aureolin wrote It may have been dropped in further on route, but it means nowt to the person sat waiting for 30 minutes. On both occasions the driver had said we'll have to wait for the next bus, and also on both occasions, the bus broke down on Pit Lane in Durham. I reckon it would have taken half that to drive the bus from the depot to there, so it all depends on how quick the administrative part of the task is?

I learnt my lesson about travelling without loose change though. Otherwise I would have caught the 64, and I have absolutely no doubt that GNE would have refunded the cost. To their credit, they always have in the past.


My question is what happens to those passengers wanting to travel to Stanley? A bus dropped in at CLS isn't going to help them. No bus to bus tickets available, so they'd be forced into purchasing either two singles or a day ticket, if they wanted to save some time by using the 50 as far as CLS...

Bus Driver or Bus Station Manager should inform the Driver of the Next Service 8 for example, that X,Y and Z were all on the Service in front which broke down, and they are then allowed to get on free of charge to continue there journey, if in the Bus Station the Station Manager should also offer Service 50 to those going to CLS, and again do the above, this then rules out the above which you have mentioned Aureolin from happening, it's certainly been the case when I have been on a Service which has broke down.

(20 Sep 2014, 7:48 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Bus Driver or Bus Station Manager should inform the Driver of the Next Service 8 for example, that X,Y and Z were all on the Service in front which broke down, and they are then allowed to get on free of charge to continue there journey, if in the Bus Station the Station Manager should also offer Service 50 to those going to CLS as Dan has mentioned, and again do the above, this then rules out the above which you have mentioned Aureolin from happening, it's certainly been the case when I have been on a Service which has broke down.