(17 Nov 2014, 5:30 pm)Andreos1 wrote And we all know the flaws with sampling .

Just as an example, it would generally be accepted that members of this forum have a range of views or opinions. We will have different views with the consultation.
We can put those viewpoints across in a post, in a comment or via a poll on this forum.
However, people such as Michael, Drifter60, Cbma40, Fozz and myself may not be able to share those views with GNE staff on Monday.
Dan would potentially be the only member of the forum who uses Deptford based services, who could get to the session and share his viewpoint and in turn, help shape the services across Sunderland. Those views could be shaped by Bazza and Kuyoyo happen to be in the area for the day - but primarily use the services of another depot. Three people agree with a proposal, influencing it on the day - yet 5 others who are affected and can't get there, have no say.

This is why sampling can be flawed and why a range of methods needs to be used.

I understand completely what you are saying, which is why I said in my previous post that I do agree the survey should have been conducted over a number of different days; however, I don't think it would be irrational to suggest that most people have the same routines every day (at least on week days). At least ten people get on the bus I get to school every morning without fail (different people depending on which service I get), and this applies to the majority of people who are either at work or are still in education. I'm in the minority as I have the ability to travel using the first bus which turns up - others don't (either because their ticket doesn't permit this or they get on the service at part of the route which is not duplicated by another service).

If people can get to Park Lane on Monday at some point between 08:00 and 16:00, the chances are they'd have been likely to do it again the next day and the day after that too. Some people have varying work shifts or varying times when they need to go to school, college, etc. These people will be in the minority. Most of us will know how sampling works, and therefore will know that the views of these people will be accounted for by the majority (ie the people who will be in Park Lane at some point on Monday because they are every single day).

At this early stage when we haven't actually seen it in play, I think that this form of consultation is the best yet. Arriva's recent consultation saw an online questionnaire; even though I'm not from the area, I was able to share my views with the company, similar to your quoted anecdote where Bazza and Kuyoyo had the opportunity to give the company their feedback (although I'd argue that, with a face-to-face consultation, this is less likely to happen). Alas, Arriva's consultations are better than Stagecoach's methods on Teesside, for I do not believe Stagecoach has undertaken a customer consultation for the upcoming service changes on Teesside...

GNE have updated the night bus logo on their site - http://www.simplygo.com/all-services/night-buses/

I'm pleased to see a face to face method being used. It's quite clear that people still prefer to talk to people face to face, and hopefully GNE will use it as an opportunity to speak to their customers, about the network in general. Views that perhaps wouldn't otherwise be aired.

I do agree with others at the same time though, in saying that it should have been done over multiple days. Perhaps a couple of short sessions rather than a full day, e.g. 10am-2pm on a Sat, then 7am-11am and 3pm-7pm on the next available weekday.

3825 was on this mornings extra 44 (the run 8272 was loaned for a couple of weeks ago)


Meanwhile, this morning i saw a venture with a brownish number. Must be trying it out. One thing that spoils it is that it had no outline and was just a brownish version of the version before hand. However, it looked quite nice if im honest. Couldnt get the fleet number though as i was going too fast on 3814 (for a change) for me to see. It must be the only one done as i have seen a few ventures today and that was the only one i saw. 

Would the reliability of the 56 improve if GNE added 6099 allowing the service more layover time and better timing points? I'ce notcied that the three main trunk road routes (21, 56 and 308) always tend to get delayed for some reason or another. I think it is down to high passenger usage and not only that, but also people making short hops with the wrong change. I know people don't want to go down the Lothian Route but I think if GNE did it with the 21 and 56 and Arriva did it with their 43, 44, 45, 306 and 308 with clear publicised fare zones and prices, reliability would improve massively. Everytime I got a slightly late 43, if only a small number of people got on in Lockey Park (Wideopen) with the wrong change (£5, £10, £20), it would always end up running 10 minutes late. Both operators should consider it.

(17 Nov 2014, 6:36 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Would the reliability of the 56 improve if GNE added 6099 allowing the service more layover time and better timing points? I'ce notcied that the three main trunk road routes (21, 56 and 308) always tend to get delayed for some reason or another. I think it is down to high passenger usage and not only that, but also people making short hops with the wrong change. I know people don't want to go down the Lothian Route but I think if GNE did it with the 21 and 56 and Arriva did it with their 43, 44, 45, 306 and 308 with clear publicised fare zones and prices, reliability would improve massively. Everytime I got a slightly late 43, if only a small number of people got on in Lockey Park (Wideopen) with the wrong change (£5, £10, £20), it would always end up running 10 minutes late.  Both operators should consider it.

I think the 56 stopping at every single stop, between Concord and Sunderland, doesn't help matters. I wonder how well running 3x 56s an hour, and 3x X56s an hour would work? Having half boards setup to run 56 one way and X56 the other way, and the other half to do the opposite. Would allow a lot more flexibility in making up time.

(17 Nov 2014, 6:36 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Would the reliability of the 56 improve if GNE added 6099 allowing the service more layover time and better timing points? I'ce notcied that the three main trunk road routes (21, 56 and 308) always tend to get delayed for some reason or another. I think it is down to high passenger usage and not only that, but also people making short hops with the wrong change. I know people don't want to go down the Lothian Route but I think if GNE did it with the 21 and 56 and Arriva did it with their 43, 44, 45, 306 and 308 with clear publicised fare zones and prices, reliability would improve massively. Everytime I got a slightly late 43, if only a small number of people got on in Lockey Park (Wideopen) with the wrong change (£5, £10, £20), it would always end up running 10 minutes late. Both operators should consider it.

I would find it quite interesting if GNE were to experiment with the 'no change given' thing.

In all fairness, I think if the best time to have done it - was when 9131 was on trial. Not sure if it would have been modified to suit otherwise though. Just a thought like.

(17 Nov 2014, 6:52 pm)AIG20 wrote Volvo Olympian 3833 (S833OFT), apparently the last "High Floor/Step Entrance" bus purchase by GNE, has been preserved by the County Durham Bus Preservation Group according to "Jonothan Ruddick" of the "Northern Road Transport Trust" Facebook Group.

Absolutely brilliant news! Pleased at least one has made it into the next life!

Which livery will 3833 end up in?!

(17 Nov 2014, 7:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote Which livery will 3833 end up in?!

Me thinks 3833 will look quite nice in that Go-Ahead Northern livery Sean Blair photoshopped onto a photo of her, looks really smart!

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/77351420@N04/15425568780/

(17 Nov 2014, 7:13 pm)Marcus wrote Me thinks 3833 will look quite nice in that Go-Ahead Northern livery Sean Blair photoshopped onto a photo of her, looks really smart!

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/77351420@N04/15425568780/

Sacrilege! 

(17 Nov 2014, 7:15 pm)Andreos1 wrote Sacrilege! 

Haha - in all honesty she hasn't been in that many liveries, has she?

The red, blue & yellow stripes (which I didn't really mind, tbh), I can't remember if it was a DFDS Olympian like 3832, and then it's had Yellow Bus branding applied and re-modified once or twice.

(17 Nov 2014, 6:01 pm)Dan wrote I understand completely what you are saying, which is why I said in my previous post that I do agree the survey should have been conducted over a number of different days; however, I don't think it would be irrational to suggest that most people have the same routines every day (at least on week days). At least ten people get on the bus I get to school every morning without fail (different people depending on which service I get), and this applies to the majority of people who are either at work or are still in education. I'm in the minority as I have the ability to travel using the first bus which turns up - others don't (either because their ticket doesn't permit this or they get on the service at part of the route which is not duplicated by another service).

If people can get to Park Lane on Monday at some point between 08:00 and 16:00, the chances are they'd have been likely to do it again the next day and the day after that too. Some people have varying work shifts or varying times when they need to go to school, college, etc. These people will be in the minority. Most of us will know how sampling works, and therefore will know that the views of these people will be accounted for by the majority (ie the people who will be in Park Lane at some point on Monday because they are every single day).

At this early stage when we haven't actually seen it in play, I think that this form of consultation is the best yet. Arriva's recent consultation saw an online questionnaire; even though I'm not from the area, I was able to share my views with the company, similar to your quoted anecdote where Bazza and Kuyoyo had the opportunity to give the company their feedback (although I'd argue that, with a face-to-face consultation, this is less likely to happen). Alas, Arriva's consultations are better than Stagecoach's methods on Teesside, for I do not believe Stagecoach has undertaken a customer consultation for the upcoming service changes on Teesside...

I don't start until 9:30am but depending on what time i get up.. i may go before, as i don't finish till 4:30pm.... (also now based at Usworth college)..... 

Hopefully they're giving leaflets out for people to take away and hopefully they have no stupid ideas on extending/re-routing key routes.... 

(17 Nov 2014, 7:13 pm)Marcus wrote Me thinks 3833 will look quite nice in that Go-Ahead Northern livery Sean Blair photoshopped onto a photo of her, looks really smart!

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/77351420@N04/15425568780/

It won't of ever had that livery though? Were they not delivered new in the Go North East blue/red/yellow livery?

(17 Nov 2014, 8:32 pm)aureolin wrote It won't of ever had that livery though? Were they not delivered new in the Go North East blue/red/yellow livery?

Haha I know, I did say it was photoshopped

(17 Nov 2014, 8:37 pm)Marcus wrote Haha I know, I did say it was photoshopped

No, I know, but it'd be pointless preserving a bus into a livery it never wore!  

(17 Nov 2014, 8:38 pm)aureolin wrote No, I know, but it'd be pointless preserving a bus into a livery it never wore!  

I see your point, but when you think about it, wouldn't you think it would make an interesting picture?

(17 Nov 2014, 8:07 am)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Didn't realise GNE were doing free rides on the 2C this morning, Driver gave me and 3 other Passenger our Money Back and told us to just get on.

#FaultyTicketMachineOn5321
#HashtagsOnNEB

3804 also had a slight problem with the ticket machine this morning. The external card reader that's on top of the machine didn't work, so the driver had to inspect my Get Around card and quiz me as to what ticket I had on it.

The same situation occurred with one of the Red Arrows Geminis a couple of weeks ago but can't remember which one.

Software problem reported by sdc, not all vehicles ticket machines were affected.

(17 Nov 2014, 6:41 pm)aureolin wrote I think the 56 stopping at every single stop, between Concord and Sunderland, doesn't help matters. I wonder how well running 3x 56s an hour, and 3x X56s an hour would work? Having half boards setup to run 56 one way and X56 the other way, and the other half to do the opposite. Would allow a lot more flexibility in making up time.

Could always Re-Number the X36 to X56 as I suggested a few months back.

Just seen a bus with the 42 on heading towards Grindon Mill

Hopefully there weren't any passengers waiting for the 9.23 50 out of Durham this morning. It decided to run via Fram and Abbey Road to the Arnison Centre - arriving approx 10mins late, before picking up the official route.

Whilst not insinuating anything at all, how come we have so many examples of services running light - yet official figures seem to state otherwise?

(18 Nov 2014, 10:41 am)Andreos1 wrote Hopefully there weren't any passengers waiting for the 9.23 50 out of Durham this morning. It decided to run via Fram and Abbey Road to the Arnison Centre - arriving approx 10mins late, before picking up the official route.

Whilst not insinuating anything at all, how come we have so many examples of services running light - yet official figures seem to state otherwise?

All lost mileage is reported and categorised; indeed, in my month hopping around various departments with GNE in August, I sorted some of the end of period reporting for it.

I think it's more a case of the mileage being operated is so much more than what you'd expect. The figure was crazy just for one period, and I can't remember off the top of my head what it was, but the mileage being dropped from Gateshead to Newcastle a couple of times per day on service 56 (for example) was nothing...

Volvo Olympian 3833: S833 OFT has been sold for preservation to the County Durham Bus Preservation Group. Volvo B12Bs 7092: K2 VOY and 7093: K3 VOY have now been transferred permanently to Driver Training and B10M 7079: S979 ABR has been withdrawn.

Hopefully there weren't any passengers waiting for the 9.23 50 out of Durham this morning. It decided to run via Fram and Abbey Road to the Arnison Centre - arriving approx 10mins late, before picking up the official route.

Now I see why the new Arriva 62 runs via the 50 route between Framwellgate Moor and the Arnison Centre, I believe the reason was to give them a more reliable service.

(18 Nov 2014, 10:50 am)Dan wrote All lost mileage is reported and categorised; indeed, in my month hopping around various departments with GNE in August, I sorted some of the end of period reporting for it.

I think it's more a case of the mileage being operated is so much more than what you'd expect. The figure was crazy just for one period, and I can't remember off the top of my head what it was, but the mileage being dropped from Gateshead to Newcastle a couple of times per day on service 56 (for example) was nothing...

Just following on from Dan's post, we roughly operate 2.5 million 'live' miles every 4 weeks, so if you lose Gateshead to Newcastle and back (roughly 3 miles) twice a day every day for the 4 weeks, it hardly touches the surface, and as Dan as said, all lost mileage is recorded and categorised, whether it is bus, traffic or staff related which is reported at the end of every 4 weekly period as a KPI.

(18 Nov 2014, 4:29 pm)citaro5284 wrote we roughly operate 2.5 million 'live' miles every 4 weeks.

Is that regional, nationwide or worldwide?

Other routes will have lost mileage, too.

Do they consider how many passengers might have been on the lost miles?

(18 Nov 2014, 5:53 pm)G-CPTN wrote Is that regional, nationwide or worldwide?

Other routes will have lost mileage, too.

Do they consider how many passengers might have been on the lost miles?

That's the mileage Go North East operates on all of its services in the region during a four week period.

Mileage lost as a percentage of the amount of scheduled 'live' miles which should be operated is as low as figures released on the public domain suggests. Go North East reports its lost mileage figures to Go-Ahead, of whom also produce 'group' figures. If there is a recurring issue causing a great deal of lost mileage, Go North East must make arrangements to reduce this lost mileage.

One of the main reasons "Wear Tees Xpress" service X7 was upgraded from Volvo B10BLEs to Mercedes Citaros was due to the amount of breakdowns the service was facing under Volvo B10BLE operation, and upgrading the service has helped stimulate passenger growth due to increased reliability.
Regulation between Gateshead and Newcastle on service 56 has been regularly discussed in the past, hence why I opted to use this service as an example previously.

Whilst I don't expect GNE (or any other company) to willingly disclose their KPI data, I think it'll be interesting to see it if QCS comes in. It'll of course be subject to FOI from that point...

(14 Nov 2014, 10:55 am)gtom wrote In today's climate if the commercially run services into Birtley weren't making money...they wouldn't be running.

The 82/83 tend to get used in Birtley as a more local service as opposed to the whole route serving the North and Central end of Birtley (Portmeads etc) as well as Barley Mow as a link to the town centre (which will become more important once Morrisons opens at Easter 15)

Whilst Durham Road is well served other areas of Birtley aren't and Birtley is particularly hilly. Portmeads, Katergina etc are sheltered and elderly accomodation

The 23 is similar.  The short runs from Barley Mow to The Crematorium are mainly for the local.  Birtley has a very aged population and Elisabethville is nearly all elderly accommodation now as with large parts of Barley Mow.  

So it's more a 'service' than a commercial need.  Saying that I think the 23 could cope with going hourly.

Thanks for your reply and thanks to Andreos, Adam and Aureolin for replying too. Sorry it has taken me a while to respond. I have been having problems with my internet connection over the last few days and when I tried replying with my "Smart"phone it was rather awkward .

I have been looking into the buses that currently serve Birtley in great depth recently which is the main reason I was interested in the loadings. I don't deny that it is very important for all areas of Birtley to have a good and fair level of bus services, particularly into the town centre. I do agree with you gtom that while some areas of Birtley are possibly over bused, some parts receive little or poor service. I can understand that Malone Gardens and Selkirk Crescent are very difficult places to serve. After looking on google maps it seems the roads around there are hard to negoiate for a bus - they seem very narrow and parked cars make it difficult. I think a taxi bus is probably the best option for this part of Birtley, either that or maybe something the size of an Optare Alero. Another option could be to have a bus service (possibly 82?) to serve Mount Road, Highridge and Blackfell Way where there are bus stops. TB14 could be withdrawn as I doubt many people would use it and there would no longer be the need to negotiate the tight roads. At the same time these areas would still have a bus service and would only involve a short walk to there nearest bus stop judging by the map.

I think service 23 would work a lot better if it was a circular service and if it cut out some areas it really doesn't need to serve. The current 23 is just ridiculous and just isn't direct enough and I think that might put some people off from using the bus. For instance I have known a few poeple who live in Barley Mow who shop at the Galleries and its just daft how it takes 40 odd mins for the 23 to go complete this journey - a journey which probably takes less than 10 minutes by car. If 23 was made a circular service then journeys would be made direct for everyone and might increase the appeal of using the bus again.

I will put a suggestion for a ciruclar service 23 in the suggestions thread and you can see what you think.

Thanks.