(23 Nov 2014, 10:04 pm)Dan wrote [url=https://www.facebook.com/michelle.drinkald?fref=ufi][/url]No the company hasn't made a decision! I've already explained on here why they're possibly only there for one day - and it certainly isn't to avoid getting the opinions of customers...

Just picking up on some of your points, you don't know this isn't a way to avoid getting opinions. Just like, I don't know that is a way of avoiding getting a true picture. You can't something is certain when really you don't know that 100%. 

I do think it's more of a lazy decision rather than one 'to avoid getting opinions' though. I still stand by and think there should be more of a effort and a couple of days in park lane. Three days this week would be a better solution in my opinion. 

I'm intrigued as to what the changes they proposing are. I can't see much 'wrong' with the sunderland network at the moment. Something tells me that it must be to do with the city services, if it's to do with things that go out of sunderland (20, 56, X35/X36, 60, 2A/2C, 61, 35) then I believe they should do consultations is these areas to- Seaham for 60, Durham/Houghton for 20, Houghton/South Shields for the 35s etc. 

So I'm wondering if it could be the 39, 38, 42? I do hope it's not North Sunderland though, it goes without saying that constant Changes are becoming boring in these areas and X36, 29 seem to running with the best passenger numbers in some time. 

(23 Nov 2014, 10:50 pm)Drifter60 wrote Just picking up on some of your points, you don't know this isn't a way to avoid getting opinions. Just like, I don't know that is a way of avoiding getting a true picture. You can't something is certain when really you don't know that 100%. 

I do think it's more of a lazy decision rather than one 'to avoid getting opinions' though. I still stand by and think there should be more of a effort and a couple of days in park lane. Three days this week would be a better solution in my opinion. 

I'm intrigued as to what the changes they proposing are. I can't see much 'wrong' with the sunderland network at the moment. Something tells me that it must be to do with the city services, if it's to do with things that go out of sunderland (20, 56, X35/X36, 60, 2A/2C, 61, 35) then I believe they should do consultations is these areas to- Seaham for 60, Durham/Houghton for 20, Houghton/South Shields for the 35s etc. 

So I'm wondering if it could be the 39, 38, 42? I do hope it's not North Sunderland though, it goes without saying that constant Changes are becoming boring in these areas and X36, 29 seem to running with the best passenger numbers in some time. 

I'm not saying it just to defend the company... They want customers' views, which is why the consultation is being held in the first place, and this is a fact. They've gone to the cost of printing posters and pinning them up on Deptford-based buses, they've advertised the consultation on the website and they've advertised the consultation on their Social Media pages. This is a company screaming to attract attention, to get their customers opinions. So yes, I say this very confidently, 100%.

If the company were to stand in Park Lane day-by-day, then the chances are they'd get the same results. The majority of people follow the same routine each weekday due to work or educational commitments. Granted, people with varying shifts do not follow the same routine, but I'd suggest that these people are in the minority... The majority of people who are unemployed (either because they can't find a job, are unable to work, or have retired) have the freedom to go out when they please can attend if they wish; they should be aware of the consultation taking place, due to it being heavily advertised.

If the company was going to get the same results from holding the consultation on one day as they would holding it on three, why bother? It's a waste of time, money and resources.

Service changes aren't designed to spice things up when things are looking dull. They're not to entertain, so how could they be classed as 'boring'? They're there to meet the changing needs of customers, to work from service suggestions sent to the company, or to make the network more profitable as it has become (or is becoming) unsustainable. 

Surely they'd just not bother, if they wanted to avoid opinions? There's no statutory requirement to consult on changes, and what they're doing is off their own back and entirely voluntary...

Hopefully the plain purple Versas at Deptford will receive some vinyls after the service changes have occurred...

Unfortunately, school prevents me from attending this, erm....'consultation'.

(23 Nov 2014, 11:04 pm)Simmy wrote Hopefully the plain purple Versas at Deptford will receive some vinyls after the service changes have occurred...

Even if service 39 isn't affected by the proposed service changes, let's hope that they're branded up! It's been almost fourteen months since the first one was painted. 

(23 Nov 2014, 11:05 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote Unfortunately, school prevents me from attending this, erm....'consultation'.

Living in Chester-le-Street, I'm doubtful you'd be affected much (if at all) by the service changes anyway.

This was the issue with the online questionnaires. Anyone, no matter where they lived or how often they travelled on the services affected, could contribute. It was difficult to gather an opinion because it varied so greatly, depending on how the question was worded. Whilst this is still possible with a face-to-face consultation, I think there will be far fewer instances of it happening...

(23 Nov 2014, 10:59 pm)Dan wrote I'm not saying it just to defend the company... They want customers' views, which is why the consultation is being held in the first place, and this is a fact. They've gone to the cost of printing posters and pinning them up on Deptford-based buses, they've advertised the consultation on the website and they've advertised the consultation on their Social Media pages. This is a company screaming to attract attention, to get their customers opinions. So yes, I say this very confidently, 100%.

If the company were to stand in Park Lane day-by-day, then the chances are they'd get the same results. The majority of people follow the same routine each weekday due to work or educational commitments. Granted, people with varying shifts do not follow the same routine, but I'd suggest that these people are in the minority... The majority of people who are unemployed (either because they can't find a job, are unable to work, or have retired) have the freedom to go out when they please can attend if they wish; they should be aware of the consultation taking place, due to it being heavily advertised.

If the company was going to get the same results from holding the consultation on one day as they would holding it on three, why bother? It's a waste of time, money and resources.

Service changes aren't designed to spice things up when things are looking dull. They're not to entertain, so how could they be classed as 'boring'? They're there to meet the changing needs of customers, to work from service suggestions sent to the company, or to make the network more profitable as it has become (or is becoming) unsustainable. 

Um on paper Dan yes. Maybe I'm too synical but it seems to be the consensus on this forum that it isn't the best of efforts this time from GNE. Michael, Andreos, Aureolin and myself have all said we couldn't attend tomorrow and/or believe more days in Park Lane were best. 

I'm still not confident 8-4 is good for workers eithers, a 8:30-5:30 or similar working day isn't too out of the ordinary. I do usually pass through Park Lane Tues, Thu, Fri at approx. 8:30 but I certianly haven't time to digest a load of changes I'm usually rushing to catch the metro or a bus. I'm sure a lot of people are the same. 

I do understand why changes happen, it doesn't change the fact the frequent changes don't help customer confidence. I've got a friend who lives in town end farm I think it is, and told me she just gets the 56, and even told me the '36' goes past her house I pointed out the 36 got axed a few months back. 
This then suggests that passengers are becoming tired of change and just opt for the 56 which has been the same for quite some time. 

(23 Nov 2014, 9:39 pm)Jimmi wrote I can't see either the X35 or X36 running on Sundays.

Wonder if it would be worth running an express between Peterlee and Sunderland, perhaps it could run the same route as the Arriva X21 and would take 26 minutes in each direction and would use one bus, to keep running costs down it could use an East Durham MPD.

Or the X7 between Sunderland and Park Lane...that would do alright if it stopped by the car boot sale in seaham when it is on

(23 Nov 2014, 11:06 pm)Dan wrote Living in Chester-le-Street, I'm doubtful you'd be affected much (if at all) by the service changes anyway.

This was the issue with the online questionnaires. Anyone, no matter where they lived or how often they travelled on the services affected, could contribute. It was difficult to gather an opinion because it varied so greatly, depending on how the question was worded. Whilst this is still possible with a face-to-face consultation, I think there will be far fewer instances of it happening...

You have a point, like!

Still, I suppose if the Limes are changed at all over in the Sunderland-area (god forbid they get re-routed through Fencehouses - I know the B10BLEs haven't got long to go but talk about a coup de grace!!), it could change times over at my end.

(23 Nov 2014, 11:15 pm)Drifter60 wrote Um on paper Dan yes. Maybe I'm too synical but it seems to be the consensus on this forum that it isn't the best of efforts this time from GNE. Michael, Andreos, Aureolin and myself have all said we couldn't attend tomorrow and/or believe more days in Park Lane were best. 

I'm still not confident 8-4 is good for workers eithers, a 8:30-5:30 or similar working day isn't too out of the ordinary. I do usually pass through Park Lane Tues, Thu, Fri at approx. 8:30 but I certianly haven't time to digest a load of changes I'm usually rushing to catch the metro or a bus. I'm sure a lot of people are the same. 

I do understand why changes happen, it doesn't change the fact the frequent changes don't help customer confidence. I've got a friend who lives in town end farm I think it is, and told me she just gets the 56, and even told me the '36' goes past her I pointed out the 36 got axed a few months back. 
This then suggests that passengers are becoming tired of change and just opt for the 56 which has been the same for quite some time. 

Yes, I really do think you are being too cynical here... I have agreed myself that I personally would liked to have seen the consultation held across more days, but from a business perspective, it just doesn't add up (for the aforementioned reasons).

For those employed in the City Centre, the consultation being held at 08:00am would be fine. Again, Go North East can't appeal to every single person who uses their services, but they can aim to reach out to a lot of them. Starting at 08:00am allows some commuters who travel through Park Lane at that time to give their opinions. If the consultation had started an hour later, these commuters would have been missed out, and I think the audience of the consultation wouldn't be as wide as a consequence.

Nevertheless, a consultation being held is better than nothing at all (as we have witnessed on Teesside with Stagecoach). Aureolin and I were discussing this when we were out and about taking photos the other day, and we both agreed that a consultation over the web platform would be the best method of consulting passengers regarding proposed service changes if it was done effectively. If customers' post codes were pulled out of the company's Key Card database and these people were all sent an e-mail with a link to the consultation which could only be used once, you could guarantee that you're going to get feedback which is accurate and comes from the customers who would actually be affected.

It cannot be denied that regular service changes do not help with customer confidence and can potentially cause confusion too, but as I have said previously, a lot of (not all) service changes actually provide customers with a better network than before due to new links being created, later buses being added, etc.

(23 Nov 2014, 11:21 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote You have a point, like!

Still, I suppose if the Limes are changed at all over in the Sunderland-area (god forbid they get re-routed through Fencehouses - I know the B10BLEs haven't got long to go but talk about a coup de grace!!), it could change times over at my end.

I dont think the 8/8A/78/78A will be part of this as they've just changed.

(23 Nov 2014, 11:06 pm)Dan wrote Even if service 39 isn't affected by the proposed service changes, let's hope that they're branded up! It's been almost fourteen months since the first one was painted. 

14 months... thats flew over!

Taking the water now though, seems pointless painting them!

(23 Nov 2014, 11:27 pm)Michael wrote 14 months... thats flew over!

Taking the water now though, seems pointless painting them!

Looked back over at my photos - it's approaching 13, not 14, but the point stands nevertheless...

Certainly has flown over though. Think of the fleet at this time last year - full of SPDs and X-reg MPDs, the lot.

(23 Nov 2014, 11:30 pm)Dan wrote Looked back over at my photos - it's approaching 13, not 14, but the point stands nevertheless...

Certainly has flown over though. Think of the fleet at this time last year - full of SPDs and X-reg MPDs, the lot.

4852 was still with us, too....

Or the X7 between Sunderland and Park Lane...that would do alright if it stopped by the car boot sale in seaham when it is on

That would be good to have a bus go past the car boot sale but it can get stuck in traffic as cars block the road trying to get parked. Also it would take roughly 30 minutes in each direction so it would need at least two buses depending on where it would terminate, Station Town perhaps but I'm not sure where it could turn round, I'm not sure if it should run to Middlesbrough or not on a Sunday.

(23 Nov 2014, 11:34 pm)Jimmi wrote That would be good to have a bus go past the car boot sale but it can get stuck in traffic as cars block the road trying to get parked. Also it would take roughly 30 minutes in each direction so it would need at least two buses depending on where it would terminate, Station Town perhaps but I'm not sure where it could turn round, I'm not sure if it should run to Middlesbrough or not on a Sunday.

The X7 timetable is quite slack, and allows drivers to make up time if something has gone wrong on the A19. More often than not, you'll find a driver has slowly strolled from Peterlee to Seaham or Sunderland to Seaham, and they'll still have time to twiddle their thumbs and inform customers of the superb value East Durham Saver ticket (  ).

I do think a Sunday X7 would be good, if the demand was there for it.

I do think a Sunday X7 would be good, if the demand was there for it.

I'm not sure if the X7 would have much demand on a Sunday as there is no East Durham services to connect to. Also I don't think that the Arriva 21 gets many passengers on a Sunday, I think if it wasn't for a decent amount of passengers travelling between Darlington and Newton Aycliffe I think it would probably not even be financially viable.

(23 Nov 2014, 11:49 pm)Jimmi wrote I'm not sure if the X7 would have much demand on a Sunday as there is no East Durham services to connect to. Also I don't think that the Arriva 21 gets many passengers on a Sunday, I think if it wasn't for a decent amount of passengers travelling between Darlington and Newton Aycliffe I think it would probably not even be financially viable.

You're right, and this is probably the reason why service X7 is so much of a commercial success (especially when compared to service Arriva's competing X21).
Without the local services feeding into the X7 at Peterlee, I fear the only major demand on a Sunday would be between Sunderland and Seaham, and this is already achieved (albeit in a longer period of time) by "Drifter" service 60. I'd imagine you would get a few local hops in the Peterlee area just to get the pensioners to ASDA and the like, but nothing special.

I've used service 21 from Darlington to Peterlee on three or four occasions on Sundays now at different times of the day. I've always been the only passenger to do the full journey, and passenger numbers have been more or less near the mark of ten on the entire journey. It seems to pick up a few in Darlington and these get off at Newton Aycliffe, then there's nothing until you get closer to Peterlee where it also picks up a few.

You're right, and this is probably the reason why service X7 is so much of a commercial success (especially when compared to service Arriva's competing X21).

 Without the local services feeding into the X7 at Peterlee, I fear the only major demand would be between Sunderland and Seaham, and this is already achieved (albeit in a longer period of time) by "Drifter" service 60.
 I've used service 21 from Darlington to Peterlee on three or four occasions on Sundays now at different times of the day. I've always been the only passenger to do the full journey, and passenger numbers have been more or less near the mark of ten on the entire journey. It seems to pick up a few in Darlington and these get off at Newton Aycliffe, then there's nothing until you get closer to Peterlee where it also picks up a few.

The connections from the East Durham services in Peterlee is probably one of the reasons why the X7 is popular and of course there is none on Sundays apart from the 59 which doesn't get close to the X7 route.

Very few people do the full Arriva 21 route.

I do wonder at times if parts of this forum are too entrenched in blinkered defence of GNE. Mutual back slapping at risk?

Yes it's a difficult job to please everyone and customers can be unreasonable but that's life. GNE blanket fill in this form and you'll end up with a Buzz fare on your key card is frankly lazy

Just a view and not an attack. I enjoy this forum but people would do well to see things a lot more from the commuter paying a fortune as opposed to the enthusiast when considering GNE activities

(24 Nov 2014, 12:16 am)gtom wrote I do wonder at times if parts of this forum are too entrenched in blinkered defence of GNE. Mutual back slapping at risk?

Yes it's a difficult job to please everyone and customers can be unreasonable but that's life. GNE blanket fill in this form and you'll end up with a Buzz fare on your key card is frankly lazy

Just a view and not an attack. I enjoy this forum but people would do well to see things a lot more from the commuter paying a fortune as opposed to the enthusiast when considering GNE activities

I sometimes see it from a different angle.  Some members on here seem to have an agenda to attack GNE at every opportunity.  It looks like no matter what GNE do, there is always negative posts or comments, whilst I appreciate everyone cannot be pleased all the time, some people need to remember, it is a business.

Well I'm on 5284's side and I think GNE are far better tham Arriva. Yes they aren't perfect (a la Fab 56 and Angel) but they do try their best:

- Local and friendly Customer Services
- Some tickets good value
- Relatively modern fleet with appropriate vehicles
- Radio controlled in the event of breakdowns, bad weather and heavy traffic
- Many connections available

What must be said is that it would be nice if Go North East turned up to their own consultation! Had a quick walk round Park Lane and there doesn't seem to be anyone present...

(24 Nov 2014, 8:08 am)Dan wrote What must be said is that it would be nice if Go North East turned up to their own consultation! Had a quick walk round Park Lane and there doesn't seem to be anyone present...

Me too!

Can't see no one!

(24 Nov 2014, 8:08 am)Dan wrote What must be said is that it would be nice if Go North East turned up to their own consultation! Had a quick walk round Park Lane and there doesn't seem to be anyone present...

I wonder if the consultation team are waiting in Newcastle for one of those 56 buses that get regulated at Gateshead.

(24 Nov 2014, 8:31 am)GuyParkRoyal wrote I wonder if the consultation team are waiting in Newcastle for one of those 56 buses that get regulated at Gateshead.

Haha, well the roadworks are quite bad around Nissan so that's what they will say.

Either way... they've missed a lot of people because they didn't turn up at 8am...i left earlier than normal so i could go....  wasted my time.

Edit: the bloke who works for GNE at Galleries?, hes on the phone and he doesnt happy with buses not turning up.

@Citaro5284

Each and every person who posts on the companies social media pages and the majority of the members in here, are customers of the business.
Whilst I can't speak for everyone, I am pretty sure they don't go about putting the company down for the sake of it.
Some have experience 'from the inside', the majority don't. Either way, the decisions made by the company affect each and every one of those customers/stakeholders.

Whether it is their buses being curtailed for operating reasons, a service being reduced for financial reasons or a bus breaking down for mechanical reasons - they are entitled to a view, an opinion or a say.

Yes, the company is a business.
Without customers, there is no business. Some people need to remember that.

It's that vicious circle - annoy customers and (where possible), they go to the competition. They may learn to drive or look for alternatives. Those unlucky enough to remain - may see their service reduced due to low passenger numbers.
Those passenger numbers may not have reduced, if the company demonstrated more of an interest in them initially.

So wait, GNE haven't even turned up?! Who was it mentioned 'lazy' yesterday?!
In all seriousness thought, Dan had a point about an 8am start could have a chance to catch commuters but now this seems to have been lost. Have they arrived yet? I wonder if they stay til 4?

(24 Nov 2014, 9:45 am)Andreos1 wrote @Citaro5284

Each and every person who posts on the companies social media pages and the majority of the members in here, are customers of the business.
Whilst I can't speak for everyone, I am pretty sure they don't go about putting the company down for the sake of it.
Some have experience 'from the inside', the majority don't. Either way, the decisions made by the company affect each and every one of those customers/stakeholders.

Whether it is their buses being curtailed for operating reasons, a service being reduced for financial reasons or a bus breaking down for mechanical reasons - they are entitled to a view, an opinion or a say.

Yes, the company is a business.
Without customers, there is no business. Some people need to remember that.

It's that vicious circle - annoy customers and (where possible), they go to the competition. They may learn to drive or look for alternatives. Those unlucky enough to remain - may see their service reduced due to low passenger numbers.
Those passenger numbers may not have reduced, if the company demonstrated more of an interest in them initially.

Well put Andreos. Especially the importance of customers. The industry is moving quickly towards a service sector (slower pace up here) but TFL are a great example of how to do it properly. Nexus and GNE are the opposite. Social media may be forcing the hand of this change but anything that puts poor service and poor attitudes under the spotlight is important.

There is someone at Park Lane doing a "consultation" according to a friend of mine. 20 going through to South Shields, 35 cut back to Sunderland and down to 15 minute frequency, X36 down to hourly through to Newcastle, the other terminated at Downhill. 99 cut to Seaburn to Townend Farm. Naturally he requested that the X3 is reinstated. ha ha.