(26 Feb 2015, 7:16 pm)Dan wrote What do you think will happen if a bus does have a faulty rear destination screen after the DDA-compliance dates come into fruition and it takes a couple of weeks for it to be repaired as the depot has been unable to keep the vehicle off the road? I can't see much happening at all, if I'm honest... I'd imagine that it would be pretty difficult to monitor which screens are working and which ones aren't as it'll be based on sightings rather than mandatory checks from the bus drivers on their morning First Use Check.

Riverside's 5389 has the exact same problem - there is one LED lit up in the top left corner and nothing else.

It'd be classed as braking the law?
I always defect buses with screens not working as part of first use check. If they're fitted they should work, simple as, same as everything else

(26 Feb 2015, 7:16 pm)Dan wrote What do you think will happen if a bus does have a faulty rear destination screen after the DDA-compliance dates come into fruition? I can't see much happening at all, really..? A bus operator cannot be forced to keep a bus off the road to fix a destination screen as it's not DDA-compliant, surely?

Riverside's 5389 has the exact same problem - there is one LED lit up in the top left corner and nothing else.

Searched 'non compliance of DDA' and clicked on the first link I found.

http://www.ddaservices.co.uk/text_versio...ences.html

It brought up three reasons why businesses should comply with the third being:

3. Penalties for non-compliance can range from heavy compensation claims to complete closure of the business. Many thousands of claims for 'injury to feelings' have already been upheld in court.

If this information is correct, there could be heavy penalties imposed for non-compliance. 

As Tyresmoke notes - it's breaking the law.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:22 pm)tyresmoke wrote It'd be classed as braking the law?
I always defect buses with screens not working as part of first use check. If they're fitted they should work, simple as, same as everything else

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but it really doesn't seem to get them repaired any quicker? I seem to recall a number of Prestiges at Stockton and Redcar with frozen rear screens - these didn't ever seem to get repaired before they were disposed of...

If it's a simple fix, why aren't they being repaired at present? Whilst it's not breaking the law at present, it's certainly bad practice if they are being reported...

(26 Feb 2015, 7:23 pm)MurdnunoC wrote If this information is correct, there could be financial consequences for non-compliance. 

Makes sense... If there wasn't some form of consequence, I highly doubt the speed of repairs would be done any quicker than at present.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:23 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Searched 'non compliance of DDA' and clicked on the first link I found.

http://www.ddaservices.co.uk/text_versio...ences.html

It brought up three reasons why businesses should comply with the third being:



If this information is correct, there could be heavy penalties imposed for non-compliance. 

As Tyresmoke notes - it's breaking the law.

Extreme case of course, but I'd guess heads would roll should a legal case land on the doormat! I'd of course hope that a driver would refuse to take a bus out of the depot (or take it over) should a display not be working, once the regs come in.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:27 pm)Dan wrote I don't mean to be pessimistic, but it really doesn't seem to get them repaired any quicker? I seem to recall a number of Prestiges at Stockton and Redcar with frozen rear screens - these didn't ever seem to get repaired before they were disposed of...

If it's simple, why aren't they being repaired at present?

I can only put it down to priorities? I guess engineering teams at both companies see a mechanically sound bus more important than a technology sound bus. I'm not saying that's an incorrect approach mind, but they won't have that choice to make come 2016. Perhaps it's important for companies to be able to repair/replace this equipment in a timely manner? 

(26 Feb 2015, 7:27 pm)Dan wrote I don't mean to be pessimistic, but it really doesn't seem to get them repaired any quicker? I seem to recall a number of Prestiges at Stockton and Redcar with frozen rear screens - these didn't ever seem to get repaired before they were disposed of...

If it's a simple fix, why aren't they being repaired at present? Whilst it's not breaking the law at present, it's certainly bad practice if they are being reported...


Makes sense... If there wasn't some form of consequence, I highly doubt the speed of repairs would be done any quicker than at present.

Eventually, I can probably see it becoming a condition of being granted an operators licence. Issues surrounding disability, mobility and access will only continue grow with more legislation implemented. 

Not saying it'll be any of the major operators, but someone, somewhere, will fall foul of being non-DDA compliant. It's a case of wait and see.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:33 pm)aureolin wrote Extreme case of course, but I'd guess heads would roll should a legal case land on the doormat! I'd of course hope that a driver would refuse to take a bus out of the depot (or take it over) should a display not be working, once the regs come in.


I can only put it down to priorities? I guess engineering teams at both companies see a mechanically sound bus more important than a technology sound bus. I'm not saying that's an incorrect approach mind, but they won't have that choice to make come 2016. Perhaps it's important for companies to be able to repair/replace this equipment in a timely manner? 

Hasn't MPD 524 has been seen a few times with the display showing nothing and I saw it on the 27X last week and the number is being displayed on the wrong side.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:40 pm)Jimmi wrote Hasn't MPD 524 has been seen a few times with the display showing nothing and I saw it on the 27X last week and the number is being displayed on the wrong side.

Percy Main's destinations were still programmed on 524 when the bus transferred to Riverside. Was a week or two before they got round to re-programming it, it would seem. Not sure why the switch setting was changed so that the number is now on the wrong side, mind.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:22 pm)tyresmoke wrote It'd be classed as braking the law?
I always defect buses with screens not working as part of first use check. If they're fitted they should work, simple as, same as everything else

And does the engineering department let you leave the depot with it not working?

(26 Feb 2015, 7:33 pm)aureolin wrote Extreme case of course, but I'd guess heads would roll should a legal case land on the doormat! I'd of course hope that a driver would refuse to take a bus out of the depot (or take it over) should a display not be working, once the regs come in.


I can only put it down to priorities? I guess engineering teams at both companies see a mechanically sound bus more important than a technology sound bus. I'm not saying that's an incorrect approach mind, but they won't have that choice to make come 2016. Perhaps it's important for companies to be able to repair/replace this equipment in a timely manner? 

Just a thought, say a rear destination goes off, and its the last bus out of the depot, all spares are used, does the Company not operate a service whereby commuters need the bus to get to work in case they get a fine....whilst I understand the law behind it, sometimes it is just impractical.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:53 pm)citaro5284 wrote Just a thought, say a rear destination goes off, and its the last bus out of the depot, all spares are used, does the Company not operate a service whereby commuters need the bus to get to work in case they get a fine....whilst I understand the law behind it, sometimes it is just impractical.

Then I guess it's a simple case of weighing up the cost to the company in terms of lost revenue versus the cost of any fine levied. However, I imagine persistent offending will incur harsher penalties over time which could, theoretically, lead to even more severe penalties being issued. The company might get away with it every now and then but, as impractical as it may be, I doubt the 'we're actually putting commuters needs first by operating this service' excuse will wash in a legal battle.

(26 Feb 2015, 7:53 pm)citaro5284 wrote Just a thought, say a rear destination goes off, and its the last bus out of the depot, all spares are used, does the Company not operate a service whereby commuters need the bus to get to work in case they get a fine....whilst I understand the law behind it, sometimes it is just impractical.

It's always going to depend on what the scope is in terms of flexibility. I'd hope there would be enough to cover the scenario that you describe, but at the same time, enough to ensure that operators can't get away with pushing the rules to the maximum. 

We could go through and pick potential faults that may be seen as an insignificance, i.e. ramp not working or bell not ringing, but what we may see as an insignificance could be seen as vital to a person with disabilities. 

(26 Feb 2015, 7:50 pm)citaro5284 wrote And does the engineering department let you leave the depot with it not working?

Happens every day, there are tons in our fleet that don't work. Even the Streetlite I had this morning both the side/rear have failed already. Got Hanover coming out to fix all of our issues but it seems things move with glacial pace...

(26 Feb 2015, 8:26 pm)tyresmoke wrote Happens every day, there are tons in our fleet that don't work. Even the Streetlite I had this morning both the side/rear have failed already. Got Hanover coming out to fix all of our issues but it seems things move with glacial pace...

I had a meeting with Hanover today about updating our Next Stop Programmes on the vehicles and on the new vehicles we are doing away with the TFT monitors in favour of a LED screen, so we needed to get an understanding of how it is going to work.

Actually, the engineer for Hanover use to work at Deptford until recently.

(26 Feb 2015, 8:36 pm)citaro5284 wrote I had a meeting with Hanover today about updating our Next Stop Programmes on the vehicles and on the new vehicles we are doing away with the TFT monitors in favour of a LED screen, so we needed to get an understanding of how it is going to work.

Actually, the engineer for Hanover use to work at Deptford until recently.

Sounds good Citaro .

(26 Feb 2015, 8:36 pm)citaro5284 wrote I had a meeting with Hanover today about updating our Next Stop Programmes on the vehicles and on the new vehicles we are doing away with the TFT monitors in favour of a LED screen, so we needed to get an understanding of how it is going to work.

Actually, the engineer for Hanover use to work at Deptford until recently.

Similar to the ibus screens in London for next stops?

(26 Feb 2015, 9:23 pm)tyresmoke wrote Similar to the ibus screens in London for next stops?

Yeah, like on the link below, but TFL use a 2 line display, whereby you can use the sign as just a 1 liner with larger text if we so wish.

http://www.hanoverdisplays.com/interior-...n-systems/

(26 Feb 2015, 9:40 pm)citaro5284 wrote Yeah, like on the link below, but TFL use a 2 line display, whereby you can use the sign as just a 1 liner with larger text if we so wish.

http://www.hanoverdisplays.com/interior-...n-systems/

Good idea having them inside i once noticed on a Citaro at Deptford that used to be Red Arrows then Silver Arrows had a similar display can anyone confirm that fleet number

(26 Feb 2015, 9:47 pm)Racer_Experience wrote Good idea having them inside i once noticed on a Citaro at Deptford that used to be Red Arrows then Silver Arrows had a similar display can anyone confirm that fleet number

5327. Still has it - but doesn't work properly.

(26 Feb 2015, 9:40 pm)citaro5284 wrote Yeah, like on the link below, but TFL use a 2 line display, whereby you can use the sign as just a 1 liner with larger text if we so wish.



http://www.hanoverdisplays.com/interior-...n-systems/

I think Arriva's ex Durham Park and Ride Solo's have these screens, think the Plaxton Prima's refurbished for the X66 also had them too.

(26 Feb 2015, 10:00 pm)Jimmi wrote I think Arriva's ex Durham Park and Ride Solo's have these screens, think the Plaxton Prima's refurbished for the X66 also had them too.

Thats correct. Shame that particular feature has been lost following the Scarlet Band takeover.

(26 Feb 2015, 10:07 pm)Robert wrote Thats correct. Shame that particular feature has been lost following the Scarlet Band takeover.

Yeah that is a shame, especially for tourists. Did they actually work on the P&R because they never did on the X66 Prima's - often showed either one dot in the left hand corner or GPS GOT FIX.

(26 Feb 2015, 10:10 pm)Jimmi wrote Yeah that is a shame, especially for tourists. Did they actually work on the P&R because they never did on the X66 Prima's - often showed either one dot in the left hand corner or GPS GOT FIX.

That means it is not getting any communication from the Hanover controller on the vehicle.

(26 Feb 2015, 10:10 pm)Jimmi wrote Yeah that is a shame, especially for tourists. Did they actually work on the P&R because they never did on the X66 Prima's - often showed either one dot in the left hand corner or GPS GOT FIX.

Yeah they did. Scrolled along quite fast though so it was quite hard to keep up. It was quite a good feature and i liked it.

(26 Feb 2015, 10:18 pm)citaro5284 wrote That means it is not getting any communication from the Hanover controller on the vehicle.

Think they managed to get 1213(?) showing "Arriva North East" on the screen it had, whilst allocated to the 685 service. The Next Stop Announcements never seemed to be operational on the 685, though, so I'm guessing they just didn't bother.

(26 Feb 2015, 10:25 pm)Dan wrote Think they managed to get 1213(?) showing "Arriva North East" on the screen it had, whilst allocated to the 685 service. The Next Stop Announcements never seemed to be operational on the 685, though, so I'm guessing they just didn't bother.

It wasn't operational on the X66 which the Prima's were refurbished for!

They never bothered branding 1213/1214 for the X66 either.

re next stop announcements - the Real Radio ones with Gary & Lisa are still going.
Appreciate they aren't working for the Real Radio any more and it has been discussed earlier, but how long was the agreement with the station and Gary/Lisa put into place for?
No idea what Gary is doing, but Lisa is now on another station in the region.

(26 Feb 2015, 10:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote re next stop announcements - the Real Radio ones with Gary & Lisa are still going.
Appreciate they aren't working for the Real Radio any more and it has been discussed earlier, but how long was the agreement with the station and Gary/Lisa put into place for?
No idea what Gary is doing, but Lisa is now on another station in the region.

Where's Michael Aspel when you need him?

Would be nice to have London LED Style interiors on the current Geminis if they were to do that the Washington batch would be done first with Deptford and Percy Main and Riverside/Hexham (including 6084) batch to be done last as they are the newer ones

(27 Feb 2015, 11:24 am)Racer_Experience wrote Would be nice to have London LED Style interiors on the current Geminis if they were to do that the Washington batch would be done first with  Deptford and Percy Main and Riverside/Hexham (including 6084) batch to be done last as they are the newer ones

Bazza you do realise that the B9TLs in this example all carry Branded Destination Screens for the Service which they are on, so for example the X1, which change for each stop that is announced via the next stop announcement system, I quite the Branded Screens to the boring LED Screens, looks for professional and eye catching for starters.

Speaking of 6084, It was showing the TEN Branded Screen rather than FAB56 when I was on it yesterday on the 10A. 

(26 Feb 2015, 10:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote re next stop announcements - the Real Radio ones with Gary & Lisa are still going.
Appreciate they aren't working for the Real Radio any more and it has been discussed earlier, but how long was the agreement with the station and Gary/Lisa put into place for?
No idea what Gary is doing, but Lisa is now on another station in the region.

Surely better than Jenny though!