Go-Ahead is a commercial enterprise. They don't finance a supply to meet a demand if there is no realistic prospect of a return to profitability, a first step on that road being to ensure the most efficient use of existing resources. The Unite suggestion that the group should instead fund a pay rise and retain conditions where they are by funneling money from Brighton or wherever indefinitely, as if GNE were merely some bizarre arm of the DWP, is frankly ludicrous.

They tried this argument in the West Midlands, and all it served to do was remind people that large groups like National Express are not black boxes, they do have component parts, some of which make a lot of money, and some of which do not. Although some might assume NXWM was a very large part of the group, on all measures, it really isn't, to the point you suspect the Group only caved in because they perhaps see a strategic advantage to being a dominant commercial operator if and when the time comes that the West Midlands council is either handing out contracts or buying up depots to hasten the return to the PTE days. In the mean time, it was hardly a surprise that the Group was not minded to cross subsidise this hefty award that amazingly pays its drivers better than London ones when costs of living are factored in, and is instead making the business bear it through fare hikes and service cuts (a pretty good sign they're no longer in that area for the long haul).

GNE might well be the problem child within the group currently, but in the medium to longer term are Go Ahead better off strategically as a group with or without GNE being part of it? Particularly with the possibility of franchising on the horizon. I would suggest with, so I don’t think it all ludicrous that the group should step in if that’s what’s being asked.

Seems like for the strike nothing will be running at all, or worse than COVID skeleton, probably on a similar scale if not less to Boxing Day.

Wonder if any none union normal staff will be working, theyll work for money but also reap the rewards of what the Union do

(17 Sep 2023, 5:09 pm)Unber43 wrote Seems like for the strike nothing will be running at all, or worse than COVID skeleton, probably on a similar scale if not less to Boxing Day.

Wonder if any none union normal staff will be working, theyll work for money but also reap the rewards of what the Union do

In the West Midlands the drivers who did turn out simply got the abuse the public were wanting to direct to the striking drivers who had completely wrecked the lives of college students sitting exams etc. No doubt the striking drivers want those drivers to be first in line for the job losses that will result from the higher fares and service cuts made to fund the "reward" the union achieved, since as everyone worked out on day one, National Express Group shareholders have absolutely intention of diverting profits from other units to fund pay awards in this one relatively small part of this global business, contrary to what Unite said should happen (and are repeating here).

(17 Sep 2023, 9:08 pm)Fleetmaster wrote In the West Midlands the drivers who did turn out simply got the abuse the public were wanting to direct to the striking drivers who had completely wrecked the lives of college students sitting exams etc. No doubt the striking drivers want those drivers to be first in line for the job losses that will result from the higher fares and service cuts made to fund the "reward" the union achieved, since as everyone worked out on day one, National Express Group shareholders have absolutely intention of diverting profits from other units to fund pay awards in this one relatively small part of this global business, contrary to what Unite said should happen (and are repeating here).

Well there are no exams in October so its alright! 

I personally will try my absolute best not to use the bus services during the strike!

Based on my travels, the region has lots of spare taxi capacity these days, for lots of different reasons I imagine. If employers are willing to be flexible and perhaps even put a little toward the fare, the strike may not be as effective as is being assumed. It is also now the slack period for coach companies too, and I do know that some employers definitely got around strikes in other areas by chartering their own buses. And of course, many of the passengers who use GNE services are already only traveling for part of the week, so you would assume a week or two of working fully from home won't be too much of a hassle. Last but by no means least, parents are sadly now well used to being dropped in the clarts and having to make their own arrangements to get the little ones to school or keep them home, so even that might not have the impact drivers are hoping.

(17 Sep 2023, 9:08 pm)Fleetmaster wrote In the West Midlands the drivers who did turn out simply got the abuse the public were wanting to direct to the striking drivers who had completely wrecked the lives of college students sitting exams etc. No doubt the striking drivers want those drivers to be first in line for the job losses that will result from the higher fares and service cuts made to fund the "reward" the union achieved, since as everyone worked out on day one, National Express Group shareholders have absolutely intention of diverting profits from other units to fund pay awards in this one relatively small part of this global business, contrary to what Unite said should happen (and are repeating here).

Completely wrecked? Dear lord, the embittered 6th form politics reaction. You realise causing disruption is the point of a strike?

NatEx got a 16% pay rise and protected their terms and conditions (and actually improved some of them)

If you believe that Unions are behind the current issues then there's no hope for you.

(18 Sep 2023, 9:18 am)Ambassador wrote Completely wrecked? Dear lord, the embittered 6th form politics reaction. You realise causing disruption is the point of a strike?

NatEx got a 16% pay rise and protected their terms and conditions (and actually improved some of them)

If you believe that Unions are behind the current issues then there's no hope for you.

It's just typical right wing Telegraph stuff, have to blame someone and unions is just the easiest to go for. Nothing to do with the political leaders or management of any of these companies though, they're all fine.

(17 Sep 2023, 9:08 pm)Fleetmaster wrote In the West Midlands the drivers who did turn out simply got the abuse the public were wanting to direct to the striking drivers who had completely wrecked the lives of college students sitting exams etc. No doubt the striking drivers want those drivers to be first in line for the job losses that will result from the higher fares and service cuts made to fund the "reward" the union achieved, since as everyone worked out on day one, National Express Group shareholders have absolutely intention of diverting profits from other units to fund pay awards in this one relatively small part of this global business, contrary to what Unite said should happen (and are repeating here).

They're struggling to get drivers, they can't lay off people that don't exist.

Remember forum golden rules ‘don’t feed the trolls’ and ‘never argue with an idiot, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience’.

(14 Sep 2023, 8:18 pm)R852 PRG wrote Historically, conditions were not standardised and varied on a depot-to-depot basis. In each depot's establishment, there are rotas for drivers who are on paid meal breaks and those on unpaid meal breaks; in most depots, the rotas for unpaid meal breaks are larger than those for paid meal breaks, although this has been facilitated through the departure of older drivers on historic conditions and the influx of newer drivers on newer conditions. 

As an example, at Chester, there was one large unpaid breaks rota, a paid breaks rota - which got progressively smaller as old hands left - and a 4 day rota with unpaid breaks only. At Gateshead, by comparison, there are paid and unpaid breaks for both the Green Rota (historically Sunderland Road routes in and around eastern Gateshead, with changeovers at Gateshead Metro) and the Red Rota (predominantly ex-Winlaton stuff, with the exception of the 49s etc; driver changeovers at the Metrocentre). Both the Green and Red Rotas have subsidiary 4 day rotas, with each having paid and unpaid lines in accordance with drivers' conditions.  

Nowadays, most drivers across the company are on standardised terms and conditions with unpaid meal breaks, however, some - mostly longer serving drivers - are on paid meal breaks. With time, paid meal breaks have become the minority in most depots. Deptford is an exception to this rule, with a higher proportion of drivers having paid meal breaks.

Ah well that makes sense. There has been many a time that buses from park lane leave late because the drivers are smoking or havent came down from their breaks yet.... Must be why they are less enthused to be back to driving as opposed to needing to earn a living in other depots...

(18 Sep 2023, 9:18 am)Ambassador wrote Completely wrecked? Dear lord, the embittered 6th form politics reaction. You realise causing disruption is the point of a strike?

Obviously. It is a question of who you are disrupting, how you are disrupting them, and whether the effects of that disruption are morally justified given what that disruption achieved for the disruptors (in this case a mere 2% rise).

Would you wreck the life chances of a North East college student for a measly 2%? Do you have a good enough case to make that blames a management that is already offering above inflation rises, for the consequences of this disruption?

(18 Sep 2023, 11:29 am)xpm wrote Remember forum golden rules ‘don’t feed the trolls’ and ‘never argue with an idiot, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience’.

I'll bear this in mind rather than replying to the reply below yours.

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-event...ke-action/

Seen the strike dates have formally been announced now.

(18 Sep 2023, 12:14 pm)logidoodah wrote Ah well that makes sense. There has been many a time that buses from park lane leave late because the drivers are smoking or havent came down from their breaks yet.... Must be why they are less enthused to be back to driving as opposed to needing to earn a living in other depots...

Can't make any justification for your former comment, but drivers claiming their breaks from late running earlier in their shift is standard practice in every depot; I'd argue any link to their conditions is tenuous.

(18 Sep 2023, 3:48 pm)Storx wrote https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-event...ke-action/

Seen the strike dates have formally been announced now.

Interesting both parties are claiming that the other did not want to negotiate.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-e...ACAS-talks


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(18 Sep 2023, 4:42 pm)Dan wrote Interesting both parties are claiming that the other did not want to negotiate.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-e...ACAS-talks


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One party refused to negotiate, I wonder which one ?

(18 Sep 2023, 4:46 pm)NL62WVW wrote One party refused to negotiate, I wonder which one ?

Probably the attention seekers at the union to get themselves in the news again

(18 Sep 2023, 4:42 pm)Dan wrote Interesting both parties are claiming that the other did not want to negotiate.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-e...ACAS-talks


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It seems that unless there is a very real threat of potential strike action, there is very little willingness on the behalf of the company to negotiate.  This was certainly the case with Arriva.

Just read Ben's latest piece on the website. I'm staggered that he can't see how damaging it is, to them as a company, playing out this dispute in public. 

Ben: "Given all parties have agreed to negotiations, we were dismayed to receive notification of strike dates from Unite. The union have proceeded with their plans before giving the upcoming ACAS talks any chance to succeed.", then followed further by "Unfortunately, it appears by the way Unite are pursuing a strike even before ACAS talks begin, that some elements of the union are focussed on disruption rather than dialogue. We believe most of our drivers want to see successful negotiations - as we do."

I'm sure he knows how this works. If Union has to legally give 14 days notice to take industrial action, knowing they'll be challenged in court if they don't, no Union in their right mind would hold back on issuing a strike notice at this stage. If anything, it gives the company a rocket up their backsides to come back round the table with a meaningful offer, instead of the temptation of trying to prolong things. 

Re: this line: "Unite agreed similar changes to work conditions at other operators in the region a long time ago. We are asking the union to keep an open mind and sit down with us to explore changes that will make rosters better for everyone." From experience, I don't think any Unions would completely rule out looking at changes to terms and working conditions, but most won't do, is sell them out without something beneficial to members in return. From the Unite press releases, it sounds like they're being expected to give them up merely in return for a below inflation pay award?

As I've said before, I'm convinced he's not the organ grinder here, but if he's daft enough to put his name to it...

(18 Sep 2023, 3:48 pm)Storx wrote https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-event...ke-action/

Seen the strike dates have formally been announced now.

Looks like they mean business then. Going for two 7 day stints to start with.

Hopefully people will get along to support the picket lines, when details are published.

(18 Sep 2023, 4:42 pm)Dan wrote Interesting both parties are claiming that the other did not want to negotiate.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-e...ACAS-talks

I think 'come back to the negotiating table with an improved offer' is probably key here. For ACAS talks to have any chance of success, there's got to be some common ground or something that can be worked on first.

Maybe if they stopped going on about how much money they are loosing, employees and unions might have a little more faith of getting a respectable pay rise. No where that is loss making is going to plow money into additional staffing costs if they can get away with not doing it. Possibly a reason why the unions are pushing ahead with strike action so quickly.

[quote="streetdeckfan" pid="301068" dateline="1695056675"]

Probably the attention seekers at the union to get themselves in the news again

Nope GNE walked away

(18 Sep 2023, 6:24 pm)NL62WVW wrote [quote="streetdeckfan" pid="301068" dateline="1695056675"]
Nope GNE walked away

I don’t think the company would repeat itself time and time again to insist that they want to negotiate and stating publicly and internally that Unite are the ones not being forthcoming, if that was not the case.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication somewhere…


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(18 Sep 2023, 6:14 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote Maybe if they stopped going on about how much money they are loosing, employees and unions might have a little more faith of getting a respectable pay rise. No where that is loss making is going to plow money into additional staffing costs if they can get away with not doing it. Possibly a reason why the unions are pushing ahead with strike action so quickly.

I'd say it's more by the sheer number of numbers behind it. Having a strike date put's GNE under immense pressure to actually do something otherwise it will cause problems. Threatening strike action is just calling bluff.

Who's talking the truth, who knows, can always speculate but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some inaccuracies coming from both sides.

(17 Sep 2023, 9:40 pm)Unber43 wrote Well there are no exams in October so its alright! 

I personally will try my absolute best not to use the bus services during the strike!

Lucky you, not having to be anywhere.

(18 Sep 2023, 6:40 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Lucky you, not having to be anywhere.

Oh I do, I need to go into Newcastle several days during the strike, I will be getting the train (maybe £6 more but still)

---

A lot of drivers when I was at Eldon Square were asked about the strike by people and the drivers just spoke S**t about the company.

Decent clash with Newcastles first champions league home game!

That statement from Ben is bizarre again, the transition from third person to Ben back to third person is a marvel! I do hope they aren’t paying anyone to write this

Can imagine for N.Tyneside:
- 309 Blyth - Station Road / Chicken Road (hourly)
- 307 North Shields - Newcastle (hourly)
- 1 Whitley Bay - Wallsend (hourly)
- 1 Newcastle - Metrocentre (????)
- 352 - Won't run
- 353 - Hourly
- 354 - Won't run
- 335/351/359 - As normal
- 41 - Every 40-45 minutes

wonder when they will be releasing the timetable, got to be done by Monday i would say

(19 Sep 2023, 8:10 pm)Unber43 wrote wonder when they will be releasing the timetable, got to be done by Monday i would say

I can't see it being anything other than last minute. It's almost impossible for them to have an accurate idea of what resource is available to them, other than the bare minimum; that being managers they hold over a barrel to strike break, or the usual scabs who are happy to do the dirty on their colleagues, whilst reaping the reward that any outcome brings.

Bare in mind that there's no obligation for an employee to tell the company whether they intend to strike or not. They can ask, but you're not obliged to answer at all. I'd always recommend my members to say nothing.

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