(24 May 2025, 4:40 pm)Retro Nero wrote Allocated to Sunderland duties now.

I forgot to reply to this.

How long is it at Deptford for?

(27 May 2025, 11:05 am)Michael wrote I forgot to reply to this.

How long is it at Deptford for?

Permanently at Sunderland Depot, I believe it is no longer a lease vehicle due to the two accident damage it has occurred, so the company have now purchased it.
And with the 56s in line for an upgrade to new ADLs this vehicle is being allocated to the 56.

---

682 is now at Sunderland Depot,

The 56 is getting new vehicles?

(27 May 2025, 11:25 am)Iamtheone8483748 wrote The 56 is getting new vehicles?

Yes , apparently new ADLs on order for Go North East as well as the Electric Deckers .

(27 May 2025, 11:25 am)Iamtheone8483748 wrote The 56 is getting new vehicles?

There's routes well ahead of the 56 which need investment! 6086-6117 have had charmed lives compared to other native GNE B9TLs.

Really, the decker routes needing investment are:

- 10/10A/10B/12
- X10 / X21

Could even argue the 47 as that's always been a good earner for GNE.

X5/X15 also a shout but some decent cascades would probably suffice.

(27 May 2025, 12:32 pm)L469 YVK wrote There's routes well ahead of the 56 which need investment! 6086-6117 have had charmed lives compared to other native GNE B9TLs.

Really, the decker routes needing investment are:

- 10/10A/10B/12
- X10 / X21

Could even argue the 47 as that's always been a good earner for GNE.

X5/X15 also a shout but some decent cascades would probably suffice.

Oh your back again with this. Please stop

(27 May 2025, 12:32 pm)L469 YVK wrote There's routes well ahead of the 56 which need investment! 6086-6117 have had charmed lives compared to other native GNE B9TLs.

Really, the decker routes needing investment are:

- 10/10A/10B/12
- X10 / X21

Could even argue the 47 as that's always been a good earner for GNE.

X5/X15 also a shout but some decent cascades would probably suffice.

I don't recall any of those routes being every 12 minutes and running 23 hours of the day.

(27 May 2025, 11:20 am)Retro Nero wrote Permanently at Sunderland Depot, I believe it is no longer a lease vehicle due to the two accident damage it has occurred, so the company have now purchased it.
And with the 56s in line for an upgrade to new ADLs this vehicle is being allocated to the 56.

---

682 is now at Sunderland Depot,

Oh interesting.

Be good to see new buses on the 56, I wonder if we'll have another brand change?

I take the fleet number will change on the E400MMCC already here and will go in GNE livery?


Wonder where the current B9's on the 56 will end up?

(27 May 2025, 5:23 pm)deanmachine wrote I don't recall any of those routes being every 12 minutes and running 23 hours of the day.

Here Here Dean !

(27 May 2025, 5:23 pm)deanmachine wrote I don't recall any of those routes being every 12 minutes and running 23 hours of the day.

With a PVR of x2 or x3 at the most!

Whereas the 10 has some challenging sections of route deep into the Tyne Valley not forgetting the Blackhall Mill extension too.

X10 nowhere near enough vehicles for operational resilience and X21 dealing with basket case 4 pot heaps of ***** for nearly 10 years despite approaching 30 mile end to end!

I'm not saying the 56 doesn't deserve new vehicles and to be fair, 6086-6100 would be welcomed with open arms elsewhere within GNE. I supppse from a cascading POV, the 56 would be a good choice.

Tbf this is GNE using some commercial nouse at last.

The stock on the 21 and 56 are money makers and are looking more dilapidated by the day, especially internally, new vehicles coming to those routes makes sense if the cash is there to do so. You can then cascade down and upgrade your other routes.

The X21 obviously isn’t high on the agenda which suggests it doesn’t make a huge income, most commuters will use the train as opposed to that service.

(27 May 2025, 9:30 pm)Ambassador wrote Tbf this is GNE using some commercial nouse at last.

The stock on the 21 and 56 are money makers and are looking more dilapidated by the day, especially internally, new vehicles coming to those routes makes sense if the cash is there to do so. You can then cascade down and upgrade your other routes.

The X21 obviously isn’t high on the agenda which suggests it doesn’t make a huge income, most commuters will use the train as opposed to that service.

I see the 56 most days and its busy, which is good, its good to see them investing in new buses again... even if the ones for the 21 are from funding.

Wonder when they'll arrive?

(27 May 2025, 9:52 pm)Michael wrote I see the 56 most days and its busy, which is good, its good to them investing in new buses again... even if the ones for the 21 are from funding.

Wonder when they'll arrive?

It does feel like a lifetime since the demos were on the 21

Not going too off topic but it seems an odd call that Durham was fitted with chargers like Harrogate was when it was rebuilt.

(27 May 2025, 9:30 pm)Ambassador wrote Tbf this is GNE using some commercial nouse at last.

The stock on the 21 and 56 are money makers and are looking more dilapidated by the day, especially internally, new vehicles coming to those routes makes sense if the cash is there to do so. You can then cascade down and upgrade your other routes.

The X21 obviously isn’t high on the agenda which suggests it doesn’t make a huge income, most commuters will use the train as opposed to that service.

I do think the 10/10A/10B/12 trump the 56 though as 6071-85 have been hammered, not forgetting that they often stood in on the X9/X10 when either 6043-48 or the 4 pot heaps threw a wobbler especially when the routes were split.

However, I can maybe see a case for the 56 though as the B9TLs would still have some serviceable life left in them.

My money for cascades would be

Option 1:
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 47 (PVR 7.....from Jul 2025)
- 6043-48 - X5/X15 and spares
- Classic E400's from 16/16A to Riverside for local & misc work

Option 2:
- X20 (PVR 6)
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 1x extra for 47 PVR increase
- Classic E400's maybe for X5/X15 or used on local & misc work

Is there potentially new buses ordered for more routes than the 56 as well?

(27 May 2025, 12:27 pm)Retro Nero wrote Yes , apparently new ADLs on order for Go North East as well as the Electric Deckers .

So are Go North East going for Electric ADLs for the 21?

The only routes I know of due an upgrade (taking into account what's said on here are)

X66 and 58 - 11 Electric single deck by 2026 (Zebra round 2 funding)
21 - No idea on number but Electric double deck (Zebra 1 funding - I think)
56 - New ADLs

(28 May 2025, 4:11 pm)Ambassador wrote The only routes I know of due an upgrade (taking into account what's said on here are)

X66 and 58 - 11 Electric single deck by 2026 (Zebra round 2 funding)
21 - No idea on number but Electric double deck (Zebra 1 funding - I think)
56 - New ADLs

The 58 is Deckers if I remember right. 

The 21 is leveling up fund isn't it? Same funding as the 43/44/45 North of the Tyne, if I remember right.

6352 and 6354 both replaced on the X10 today and 6353 and 6355 have both been off the road since the 19th May and 12th May surely it’s time for new buses on them X10’s the E400MMC’s are awful things constantly having problems.

(28 May 2025, 4:17 pm)Storx wrote The 58 is Deckers if I remember right. 

The 21 is leveling up fund isn't it? Same funding as the 43/44/45 North of the Tyne, if I remember right.

That's right, the 21 was from Levelling Up. Interesting that the Arriva funding for the 43/44/45 has only been approved earlier this year and the planning permission for their depot modifications just got approval last week. I wonder if GNE have seen similar delays in the funding being released?

(27 May 2025, 10:40 pm)L469 YVK wrote I do think the 10/10A/10B/12 trump the 56 though as 6071-85 have been hammered, not forgetting that they often stood in on the X9/X10 when either 6043-48 or the 4 pot heaps threw a wobbler especially when the routes were split.

However, I can maybe see a case for the 56 though as the B9TLs would still have some serviceable life left in them.

My money for cascades would be

Option 1:
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 47 (PVR 7.....from Jul 2025)
- 6043-48 - X5/X15 and spares
- Classic E400's from 16/16A to Riverside for local & misc work

Option 2:
- X20 (PVR 6)
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 1x extra for 47 PVR increase
- Classic E400's maybe for X5/X15 or used on local & misc work

Not sure I'd be betting on that mind.

Personally if I had to take a punt I'd say they'll be going to Consett for the X45/47/X5/X15 with the E400MMC's formally doing the X30/X31/X32/X70/X71/X72/X73 which they've been pretty much doing recently anyway.

Means there's the opportunity to displace some singles out to elsewhere aswell to get shot of more Versa's since they've currently got 21 singles for a PVR 13*. *think that's right anyway. 

(28 May 2025, 4:59 pm)Shrek wrote That's right, the 21 was from Levelling Up. Interesting that the Arriva funding for the 43/44/45 has only been approved earlier this year and the planning permission for their depot modifications just got approval last week. I wonder if GNE have seen similar delays in the funding being released?

Aye I seen that, it's a strange one as Stagecoach's are already on the road - so god knows. Never know anything with the councils up here, who lost the ferry funding first time round as missed the deadline for that (supposedly).

Should bring back Fab 56 brand. Never should have gone in the first place.

(28 May 2025, 5:28 pm)Arriva7446 wrote Should bring back Fab 56 brand. Never should have gone in the first place.

Personally thought it was very dated and of its time.

(28 May 2025, 5:06 pm)Storx wrote Not sure I'd be betting on that mind.

Personally if I had to take a punt I'd say they'll be going to Consett for the X45/47/X5/X15 with the E400MMC's formally doing the X30/X31/X32/X70/X71/X72/X73 which they've been pretty much doing recently anyway.

I know this is unpopular, but I'd go with 6308-14 on the X45 (with x2 spare) and B9TLs ending up on the X20. Yes they've been quite sketchy reliability wise. But with x2 spare and one rest day per week (with the 6/12/X30/X72 and X30/X45/X72 Sunday interworkings covered by E200MMC/E400MMC), they'd be fine.

In comparison to the X30s/X70s which have quite a few challenging sections, the Shotley Bridge to Newcastle section of the X45 (most of the route) is fairly straightforward and was previously handled fine using StreetLites & StreetDecks.

Ideally, we both know they should leave GNE in exchange for a more common vehicle type.

(28 May 2025, 6:43 pm)L469 YVK wrote I know this is unpopular, but I'd go with 6308-14 on the X45 (with x2 spare) and B9TLs ending up on the X20. Yes they've been quite sketchy reliability wise. But with x2 spare and one rest day per week (with the 6/12/X30/X72 and X30/X45/X72 Sunday interworkings covered by E200MMC/E400MMC), they'd be fine.

In comparison to the X30s/X70s which have quite a few challenging sections, the Shotley Bridge to Newcastle section of the X45 (most of the route) is fairly straightforward and was previously handled fine using StreetLites & StreetDecks.

Ideally, we both know they should leave GNE in exchange for a more common vehicle type.

To be honest, GoAhead being the way it is lately, I wouldn't be surprised if the B5TL's left as part of this investment. The other 8 heading to Consett to see off the oldest buses there and just being on the X5/X15/X45/47.

Probably best for all parties if they left but doesn't help the elderly fleet up here much.

(28 May 2025, 6:59 pm)Storx wrote To be honest, GoAhead being the way it is lately, I wouldn't be surprised if the B5TL's left as part of this investment. The other 8 heading to Consett to see off the oldest buses there and just being on the X5/X15/X45/47.

Probably best for all parties if they left but doesn't help the elderly fleet up here much.

Well EY have x7 dealer stock B9TL (x4 of them originally GNE 6118-21). Would GNE not be better doing a swap with EY? Even if they're kept away from CAZ work.

---

Also had a bit of a bluesky thought.

Think the PVR interworking would be x13 or x14, but would something like this not be worth some future investment?

- x14Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora

- 45 every 20/40 mins
- 46 every 60 mins
- 47 every 20 minutes and Consett > Blackhall Mill extension replaced by another service

Originally, it was the 47 that needed double deck capacity. Surely the 47 would cope fine on a 20 minute frequency and a nice clean 10 minute frequency between Rowlands Gill and Newcastle.

Basically buy good solid heavy duty vehicles and run them into the ground until they're 15-20 year old! GNE did it with the B10BLEs.

(28 May 2025, 7:38 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well EY have x7 dealer stock B9TL (x4 of them originally GNE 6118-21). Would GNE not be better doing a swap with EY? Even if they're kept away from CAZ work.

---

Also had a bit of a bluesky thought.

Think the PVR interworking would be x13 or x14, but would something like this not be worth some future investment?

- x14Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora

- 45 every 20/40 mins
- 46 every 60 mins
- 47 every 20 minutes and Consett > Blackhall Mill extension replaced by another service

Originally, it was the 47 that needed double deck capacity. Surely the 47 would cope fine on a 20 minute frequency and a nice clean 10 minute frequency between Rowlands Gill and Newcastle.

Basically buy good solid heavy duty vehicles and run them into the ground until they're 15-20 year old! GNE did it with the B10BLEs.

Truthfully if they sent them down I'd expect nothing in return tbh. They seem to be trying to invest as little as they can up here but when you've got 10 buses on lease you've probably pushed it a bit too far. There's plenty old and weird buses ie. B9TL E400's which are finished down there I'm sure they could replace.

Can't see much more investment than what they've got personally for any route unless it involves free handouts, as it probably doesn't look good if the local councils are offering you cash and you outright refuse it. It's just fuelling fire for Kim's vendetta against you (rightfully or wrongly).

(28 May 2025, 7:48 pm)Storx wrote Truthfully if they sent them down I'd expect nothing in return tbh. They seem to be trying to invest as little as they can up here but when you've got 10 buses on lease you've probably pushed it a bit too far. There's plenty old and weird buses ie. B9TL E400's which are finished down there I'm sure they could replace.

Can't see much more investment than what they've got personally for any route unless it involves free handouts, as it probably doesn't look good if the local councils are offering you cash and you outright refuse it. It's just fuelling fire for Kim's vendetta against you (rightfully or wrongly).

See, I think GNE do need to keep investing though despite franchising possibly happening.

Other than the EV's (subsidised of course), GNE haven't invested in any new vehicles since the 2019-20 financial year regardless of delivery date. The last new diesel vehicles being the x15 E400MMC originally for the X1 (+1 for the X30) before the fleet was swapped around.

GNE have had 5 clear financial years to get back into good health since the 2020-21 financial year. Demand is returning in quite a lot of instances. I don't think GNE will go all out and do 100+ vehicle orders in a year like seen in the past. But wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 30-40 new vehicles per year.

(28 May 2025, 5:28 pm)Arriva7446 wrote Should bring back Fab 56 brand. Never should have gone in the first place.

what was " fab" about it was what my workmates who used it use to say!

(29 May 2025, 7:08 am)L469 YVK wrote See, I think GNE do need to keep investing though despite franchising possibly happening.

Other than the EV's (subsidised of course), GNE haven't invested in any new vehicles since the 2019-20 financial year regardless of delivery date. The last new diesel vehicles being the x15 E400MMC originally for the X1 (+1 for the X30) before the fleet was swapped around.

GNE have had 5 clear financial years to get back into good health since the 2020-21 financial year. Demand is returning in quite a lot of instances. I don't think GNE will go all out and do 100+ vehicle orders in a year like seen in the past. But wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 30-40 new vehicles per year.

Even known they probably should, I just can't see it.

Why bother investing up here when you're going to lose it and it's not very profitable anyway. Alternatively, you could invest in somewhere like Brighton or Oxford which are very profitable areas and there's no plans for franchising, at all, and displace those buses to other areas ie. up here. 

Those two have had massive investment aswell, imo they'll be doing the bare minimum to scrape through up here, hence the lack of investment anyway.