(16 Jul 2026, 4:39 pm)col87 wrote So to go back to my original question to stop a service starting outside of the NEMSA to operate commercially into it so in theory a service from Hartlepool- Metrocentre and Newcastle could be set up as long as it was not franchised.

(16 Jul 2026, 7:03 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Yep. And going back to 1986 and the days of the PTEs, some services did operate commercially into Newcastle outside of the remit of Tyne and Wear PTE

If it was an operator wanting to run the service commercially, it would need to be on the basis of a service permit or an agreed exemption. I'd suggest for an agreed exclusion to be agreed, it would largely depend on what the service intends to do once within the NEMSA area.

If, for arguments sake, your theoretical Hartlepool to the Metrocentre & Newcastle service had plans to serve Peterlee, then NEMSA's delivery body may see that as taking passengers away from their 23 service and refuse it. If it's *only* serving the Metrocentre & Newcastle, aside from Hartlepool, then I can't see any reason why they wouldn't make an exemption. Unless they were intending to do something stupid like try and compete with NEMSA services between Metrocentre & Newcastle.

(16 Jul 2026, 7:39 pm)Malarkey wrote I think this is where you'd probably see these sorts of routes operating under a Service Permit, much like they already do in Greater Manchester.

For example:

Transdev 1: Blackburn – Darwen – Astley Bridge – Bolton
Rosso 481/483: Blackburn – Haslingden – Rawtenstall – Bury
Transdev X43 "The Witch Way": Burnley – Rawtenstall – Prestwich – Manchester
High Peak 199 Skyline: Buxton – Manchester Airport

They all cross into the Bee Network area but continue to operate under Service Permits rather than being part of the franchised network.

Up here, I'd say the X10 Newcastle – Gateshead – Dalton Park – Stockton – Middlesbrough is probably the best comparison and could end up operating in a similar way.

One thing I have wondered though is what happens to routes like the X10 in the longer term. As National Express and FlixBus sit outside franchising anyway, could there eventually be a case for express routes like the X10 becoming part of that wider coach market instead? That would leave the franchised network to concentrate more on local and regional services.

Just something I've been thinking about rather than saying that's what will happen, but it's an interesting one to consider.199Skyline

(17 Jul 2026, 7:28 am)Storx wrote Can't see the X10 becoming a permit route mind for one big reason. 

There's no-one to operate it. Unless Arriva or Stagecoach take it over in Stockton it's finished and I'm unsure they'll want to mess around with permits for it since it doesn't benefit either of them in terms of where they are right now and is a massive headache.

I agree with Storx here. Unless one of the two established operators in Teesside decide to try a commercial venture, it'll most likely remain a NEMSA service - which could still prove to be the case, even if there's a commercial desire. The main depots become NEMSA owned within the franchise area, so there's no way one of the operators that win the lot could then run this as a side venture from that depot.

Without the access to the NEMSA area, the service would pretty much be a Middlesbrough to Billingham via Stockton service, and there's already the 34/36 commercially covering those links.