(27 Sep 2013, 12:35 pm)Andreos1 wrote So that is at least three different demographic groups - using the services in certain areas, at least once a week, possibly (and in some cases certainly) more?
From those demographics, you personally know individuals which fall into two of the categories and presumably have told you (or you have witnessed), they use these services.

Quite different to eezypeazy's report, based on his observation...
Unless the pensioner that uses the bus 3-4 times a week, is one of the people eezypeazy has seen

Eezypeazy may have well witnessed what he witnessed, as I've said the bus is poorly used on certain sections of the route at certain times of the day so I'm not saying that he's wrong. But unless he's following the bus across the whole of it's route throughout the entire day, his 'report' is flawed as it only represents a brief snapshot. I'm not suggesting that my observations represent a true reflection of how the 'R' series of services as I'm just going off what I've been told and witnessed; my observations may be as similarly flawed.

(27 Sep 2013, 12:26 pm)AdamY wrote ...Now, I know at least one pensioner who uses this service at least three or four times a week. Could it be possible that other pensioners use this bus more than once or twice a week? Also, the R3/R4 and R6 are used by schoolchildren travelling between Highfield/High Spen/Rowlands Gill and Blaydon and Winlaton (for St Thomas More School). So there's another demographic potentially using the service more than once or twice per week. Also some people I know use this bus to travel to work in Blaydon, perhaps others do too.

An interesting debate, and I'll be the first to admit that none of us has the full picture here.

But one pensioner, four times a week, does not a viable service make. Indeed, a 70 seater full of pensioners every hour of every day would not a viable service make, because of the 'no better, no worse off' rule imposed on bus operators. Ditto children travelling at reduced fares.

I did some maths in the Spirit Buses thread suggesting that a bus needs to make about £30 an hour to be viable and that this could be achieved with about eight passengers per hour at an average fare of £3.75. I've no idea what the fares are on the R services, nor what the concessionary reimbursement rate is. IIRC, the PVR is 4, so between them they need 32 boardings per hour (more if the average fare is lower, less if the operating costs are less than £30 per hour per bus). If its not viable, then the ITA, at its discretion, can meet the shortfall, on the basis that this provides important links for the people who do use it, and that's their right - ie., they can run buses as empty as they wish as long as they can afford it.

Apologies if this has drifted off from "GNE - latest" somewhat... Anyone care to bring us back on topic with some Latest news?

(27 Sep 2013, 3:23 pm)Liam wrote http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/busin...-1-6090430

In the 3 or 4 Times I have used the 27X there has no more than 5 Passengers on it which I think is ridiculous considering the community of Hebburn moaned and groaned for this Service, and what happens they don't use it and in turn costing GNE/Nexus a lot of money for the cost of running the Service.

The only way I can see Passenger Numbers and the Service being Viable is by doing this. Have it Serve Market Street/Grainger Street like the 27 along with Gateshead Interchange and an Extension to Jarrow

Did I read somewhere on here that the bus that does the 27X in the day then does the 40A on an evening? That being the case, maybe the fixed cost of providing the bus is covered so it's just a variable cost to provide the 27X? I don't know, never costed a bus service before. An extension is likely to increase PVR and hence cost so I'd be surprised to see it. Pity though.

(27 Sep 2013, 1:06 pm)eezypeazy wrote An interesting debate, and I'll be the first to admit that none of us has the full picture here.

But one pensioner, four times a week, does not a viable service make. Indeed, a 70 seater full of pensioners every hour of every day would not a viable service make, because of the 'no better, no worse off' rule imposed on bus operators. Ditto children travelling at reduced fares.

I did some maths in the Spirit Buses thread suggesting that a bus needs to make about £30 an hour to be viable and that this could be achieved with about eight passengers per hour at an average fare of £3.75. I've no idea what the fares are on the R services, nor what the concessionary reimbursement rate is. IIRC, the PVR is 4, so between them they need 32 boardings per hour (more if the average fare is lower, less if the operating costs are less than £30 per hour per bus). If its not viable, then the ITA, at its discretion, can meet the shortfall, on the basis that this provides important links for the people who do use it, and that's their right - ie., they can run buses as empty as they wish as long as they can afford it.

Apologies if this has drifted off from "GNE - latest" somewhat... Anyone care to bring us back on topic with some Latest news?

Sorry. Just one quick rebuttal before we draw a line under this debate.

In my original post in the Quality Contracts thread regarding the patronage of the 'R' series of services, I too doubted the commercial viability of these services by stating something along the lines of 'I doubt these services are money spinners'. This debate was never about commercial viability, something which we can both actually agree upon, but rather about how these services were used. I don't profess to be much of a mathematician so I'm happy to accept the figures provided, however, if a service is well-used, it's well-used regardless of whether it produces a profitable return. In the context of this debate, commercial viability and patronage should not be conflated to mean one and the same.

(27 Sep 2013, 9:52 am)Andreos1 wrote Not sure of the exact in's and out's, but it appears some of the runs are not doing the full journey.

you are right the timetable changes are on the GoNorth East site. some of the early morning and late journeys are cancelled, some only doing part of the route.

It has been confirmed that the final two Citaros arrived earlier today, though the registrations are unknown at present.
Can anyone shed any light on the registrations today, so we can compile a list of all arrivals and assign assumed fleet numbers (providing they're in alphabetical/numerical order)?

I was passing Peterlee bus station at 19:40 in the car, there was a East Durham branded mpd starting to be towed by the tow truck, didn't catch fleet number to far away.

(27 Sep 2013, 6:59 pm)Daniel wrote It has been confirmed that the final two Citaros arrived earlier today, though the registrations are unknown at present.
Can anyone shed any light on the registrations today, so we can compile a list of all arrivals and assign assumed fleet numbers (providing they're in alphabetical/numerical order)?

Based on the info in post #938, it doesn't sound like they are doing them in alphabetical order.

(27 Sep 2013, 7:04 pm)cbma06 wrote I was passing Peterlee bus station at 19:40 in the car, there was a East Durham branded mpd starting to be towed by the tow truck, didn't catch fleet number to far away.

East Durham 501 was been driven by an engineer not in service along Stockton road at around 1:50.

Thanks to a post on the National Express yahoo group I have been able to make a list of all of the NX services being taken over by GNE in the next few months

The 561s transfer from 14th October, and they also take over the 410/420 from Natex themselves, plus the operation of the 024 route to Eastbourne from Chalfont, who will operate the 023 Bexhill instead (this being Yourbus at present).
The journeys below on the 425/426 will transfer to GNE operation in December (date tbc) and I'm assuming anything not listed here (other 425/426s, the overnight 435/436, 591) has been won by Jim Hughes from December?
The 563 Whitby-London will transfer to EYMS from 14th October.

GNE won services as follows:
561 0750 Skipton-London
561 0900 Ripon-London
561 1020 Skipton-London
561 1155 Knaresborough-London
561 1300 London-Knaresborough
561 1400 London-Skipton
561 1600 London-Ripon
561 1700 London-Skipton
024 0805 Eastbourne-London
024 1900 London-Eastbourne
420 0630 London-Birmingham
410 1100 Birmingham-London
410 1700 London-Birmingham
420 2100 Birmingham-London
425 0715 Newcastle-London
425 1430 Newcastle-London
426 0645 Sunderland-London
426 1400 S.Shields-London
425 0930 London-Newcastle
425 1600 London-Newcastle
426 0930 London-S.Shields
426 1630 London-Sunderland

(28 Sep 2013, 8:09 am)tyresmoke wrote Thanks to a post on the National Express yahoo group I have been able to make a list of all of the NX services being taken over by GNE in the next few months

The 561s transfer from 14th October, and they also take over the 410/420 from Natex themselves, plus the operation of the 024 route to Eastbourne from Chalfont, who will operate the 023 Bexhill instead (this being Yourbus at present).
The journeys below on the 425/426 will transfer to GNE operation in December (date tbc) and I'm assuming anything not listed here (other 425/426s, the overnight 435/436, 591) has been won by Jim Hughes from December?
The 563 Whitby-London will transfer to EYMS from 14th October.

GNE won services as follows:
561 0750 Skipton-London
561 0900 Ripon-London
561 1020 Skipton-London
561 1155 Knaresborough-London
561 1300 London-Knaresborough
561 1400 London-Skipton
561 1600 London-Ripon
561 1700 London-Skipton
024 0805 Eastbourne-London
024 1900 London-Eastbourne
420 0630 London-Birmingham
410 1100 Birmingham-London
410 1700 London-Birmingham
420 2100 Birmingham-London
425 0715 Newcastle-London
425 1430 Newcastle-London
426 0645 Sunderland-London
426 1400 S.Shields-London
425 0930 London-Newcastle
425 1600 London-Newcastle
426 0930 London-S.Shields
426 1630 London-Sunderland

The 425 & 426 from n/cle & shiels at 14.30 & 14.00 work onto the 435/436 also the 09.30 departures work off the overnights 435/436 so i'd assume the overnights have been won by gne aswell. The only 425 thats missing is the morning ashington which when classic had the contract ran onto a 040 to overnight in bristol and the 2nd 426 from shields/s'land which ran onto a felixstowe overnight, presume theses and the 591s have been won by jim hughes.

(28 Sep 2013, 8:43 am)nk55 wrote The 425 & 426 from n/cle & shiels at 14.30 & 14.00 work onto the 435/436 also the 09.30 departures work off the overnights 435/436 so i'd assume the overnights have been won by gne aswell. The only 425 thats missing is the morning ashington which when classic had the contract ran onto a 040 to overnight in bristol and the 2nd 426 from shields/s'land which ran onto a felixstowe overnight, presume theses and the 591s have been won by jim hughes.

Cheers wasn't sure which routes interworked but did see a 040 Bristol and 481 Felixstowe on the list down as Yourbus so that would be a pretty good assumption The 591s also work in with the overnight 594s I gather.

(28 Sep 2013, 10:39 am)tyresmoke wrote Cheers wasn't sure which routes interworked but did see a 040 Bristol and 481 Felixstowe on the list down as Yourbus so that would be a pretty good assumption The 591s also work in with the overnight 594s I gather.

Yes the 591/594 interworks. Have yourbus lost everything or retained some?

(28 Sep 2013, 11:16 am)nk55 wrote Yes the 591/594 interworks. Have yourbus lost everything or retained some?

As far as I know they're losing everything that runs from Hetton depot, so I'm assuming the Bradford based 561s are run by their Bradford depot.
I'm not sure whether they've lost said work or they've handed it back to NX. They're also giving up the Durhan Cathedral bus which is up for tender to start in October at some point (can't remember the exact date).

(28 Sep 2013, 11:23 am)tyresmoke wrote As far as I know they're losing everything that runs from Hetton depot, so I'm assuming the Bradford based 561s are run by their Bradford depot.
I'm not sure whether they've lost said work or they've handed it back to NX. They're also giving up the Durhan Cathedral bus which is up for tender to start in October at some point (can't remember the exact date).

I am led to believe they have thrown it in rather than lost on tender

(28 Sep 2013, 11:51 am)citaro5284 wrote I am led to believe they have thrown it in rather than lost on tender

Cheers - that would make sense. I've heard from others that NX were giving them the boot but that wouldn't explain why they've constantly extended the handover dates or why they're allowing them to keep the other depots' work!
Getting it back on topic... Are we to assume that GNE will have to lease some coaches temporarily pending new deliveries if they're starting in 2 weeks on some of the routes?

(28 Sep 2013, 11:56 am)tyresmoke wrote Cheers - that would make sense. I've heard from others that NX were giving them the boot but that wouldn't explain why they've constantly extended the handover dates or why they're allowing them to keep the other depots' work!
Getting it back on topic... Are we to assume that GNE will have to lease some coaches temporarily pending new deliveries if they're starting in 2 weeks on some of the routes?

I think that the additional coaches might have already arrived. I added a post to this thread on 4th September indicating that 3 new tri-axle coaches were at Chester le Street with contractors on site applying National Express livery to them.
There were no registration numbers or fleet numbers visible at the time but I understand that one of them has now been registered as K2VDV.

I know one of the plaxton premier coaches was registered K2 VOY but last time i seen the plaxton it was still registered as above and i've not seen any new triaxles in chester depot. I do believe national express have a large standing area with ordered and delivered coaches, but that haven't been moved on to operators. It would seem unusual to have 11 plate coaches taken off the network (yourbus) and replaced by 63 plate coaches as will be the case with all new contracts being taken over.

4912 being towed away by an alpha recovery truck at the galleries

(28 Sep 2013, 12:47 pm)nk55 wrote I know one of the plaxton premier coaches was registered K2 VOY but last time i seen the plaxton it was still registered as above and i've not seen any new triaxles in chester depot. I do believe national express have a large standing area with ordered and delivered coaches, but that haven't been moved on to operators. It would seem unusual to have 11 plate coaches taken off the network (yourbus) and replaced by 63 plate coaches as will be the case with all new contracts being taken over.

It's a strange world - Rotala have a bunch of 14 Volvo B9Rs sat around doing nothing and EYMS have been loaning in various Bovas and other assorted coaches to cover their commitments.

Regarding the Q1 - I've noticed for a few months now, that the Q1 (towards Central Station) now tends to operate via Bottle Bank and up the hill to The Sage rather than through the bus only junction. Not sure that's worth a registration though, as there are no stops on either route it takes.

(28 Sep 2013, 7:20 pm)BJ10VUS wrote Regarding the Q1 - I've noticed for a few months now, that the Q1 (towards Central Station) now tends to operate via Bottle Bank and up the hill to The Sage rather than through the bus only junction. Not sure that's worth a registration though, as there are no stops on either route it takes.

The Q1 has been doing Bottle Bank due to a problem with the traffic lights at the end of the Tyne Bridge as the loop is knackered for them to turn right as they head from Gateshead Interchange towards the Sage

(26 Sep 2013, 9:59 pm)tyresmoke wrote Shame to see GNE cost cutting on the X7 already (and adding extra stops into it) in a desperate attempt to make it profitable. Not exactly surprising, though!

Or lots of pushing of Arriva's X1 group - 3 extra buses and fares gone from £6.50 returns down to £4 day tickets. You do the maths !

(28 Sep 2013, 8:05 pm)busman101 wrote Or lots of pushing of Arriva's X1 group - 3 extra buses and fares gone from £6.50 returns down to £4 day tickets. You do the maths !

Sorry my original post probably sounded a bit blunt!
What I meant was its a shame to see it being cut so soon, thought you might have left it a bit longer to see it grow a bit more before taking a look at it? Having said that I'm not surprised by some of the trips being cut as they do have no-one on (the last one out of Middlesbrough for example).

(28 Sep 2013, 8:17 pm)tyresmoke wrote Sorry my original post probably sounded a bit blunt!
What I meant was its a shame to see it being cut so soon, thought you might have left it a bit longer to see it grow a bit more before taking a look at it? Having said that I'm not surprised by some of the trips being cut as they do have no-one on (the last one out of Middlesbrough for example).

A little bit of backtracking there Scott

Does anyone have an allocation list for these
Raymond

(28 Sep 2013, 7:53 pm)busman101 wrote The Q1 has been doing Bottle Bank due to a problem with the traffic lights at the end of the Tyne Bridge as the loop is knackered for them to turn right as they head from Gateshead Interchange towards the Sage

Ah right, thanks for clearing that up. They must have been broken for quite a while!

(28 Sep 2013, 8:35 pm)citaro5284 wrote A little bit of backtracking there Scott

Haha you could say that....
Then again it only started on 25th March, so that's only 6 months running... Surely just starting to get going in terms of building a commercially viable service? To introduce cuts so quickly seems a bit strange to me, not in terms of the actual trips being cut (I can understand that) but to change a service so soon into its life won't inspire customer confidence surely? I still think they missed a trick by not sending it via Dalton Park, a shopping park that tends to get forgotten by people in Teesside due to the poor transport links. Contrast that to the amount that use the X9/X10 to get to Metrocentre/Newcastle... The X7 could have had an extra slice of revenue by serving the shopping park there.

(28 Sep 2013, 9:29 pm)tyresmoke wrote Haha you could say that....
Then again it only started on 25th March, so that's only 6 months running... Surely just starting to get going in terms of building a commercially viable service? To introduce cuts so quickly seems a bit strange to me, not in terms of the actual trips being cut (I can understand that) but to change a service so soon into its life won't inspire customer confidence surely? I still think they missed a trick by not sending it via Dalton Park, a shopping park that tends to get forgotten by people in Teesside due to the poor transport links. Contrast that to the amount that use the X9/X10 to get to Metrocentre/Newcastle... The X7 could have had an extra slice of revenue by serving the shopping park there.

This dalton park argument always get me wondering. I think dalton park does need more transport links, but the X7 to serve dalton park would increase timings and possibly the PVR. It's a funny one a bus from Middlesbrough, Stockton, Wingate, Station Town to Dalton Park would be good but logistically I'm not sure. One thought crossed my mind as to how well used the X7 is on Teeside. Obviously could be difficult to market, but an hourly express from Station Town-Sunderland via Wingate, Peterlee, Dalton Park, Seaham, Grangetown sounds like a nice idea and that would probably give a PVR of 2. But then that's take away Teeside links to Dalton Park the issue we were trying to resolve. Difficult one.