C265XEF only joined the forum last month, so it's an easy mistake to make given that all forums have different 'posting rules' as it were.
I have merged both threads together, so that the post about the Versa demonstrator vehicle appears in the "Arriva North East - Latest" thread.

(10 Dec 2013, 12:46 pm)andreos1 wrote Read somewhere they were running light from Jesmond - inc the one from Carlisle!

Believe the one from Carlisle runs light from Hexham, rather than Jesmond.

Why has the Arriva North East Latest Thread moved from Important Threads to Normal Threads Dan? Surely it should be at the top of the Important Threads for Arriva Notrh East?

(10 Dec 2013, 6:05 pm)peter wrote Why has the Arriva North East Latest Thread moved from Important Threads to Normal Threads Dan? Surely it should be at the top of the Important Threads for Arriva Notrh East?

Sorted - it's from when I merged the threads earlier, it was automatically demoted to a 'normal thread' again.

(10 Dec 2013, 4:56 pm)tyresmoke wrote Believe the one from Carlisle runs light from Hexham, rather than Jesmond.

So do they keep vehicles overnight in Hexham?

(10 Dec 2013, 7:12 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote So do they keep vehicles overnight in Hexham?

No everything runs from Jesmond, though I'm told that one does run light from Hexham to Carlisle to pick up service. Looking at the timetable I can't work out how they work. I think it might be the 0926 arrival in Hexham running to Carlisle to run the 1107 back to Newcastle. I'm not sure what would do the 0927 short back to Newcastle though, possibly one off a scholars working?

(10 Dec 2013, 7:56 pm)tyresmoke wrote No everything runs from Jesmond, though I'm told that one does run light from Hexham to Carlisle to pick up service. Looking at the timetable I can't work out how they work. I think it might be the 0926 arrival in Hexham running to Carlisle to run the 1107 back to Newcastle. I'm not sure what would do the 0927 short back to Newcastle though, possibly one off a scholars working?

Seems an awful amount of dead mileage, but for what reason?

(10 Dec 2013, 7:56 pm)tyresmoke wrote No everything runs from Jesmond, though I'm told that one does run light from Hexham to Carlisle to pick up service. Looking at the timetable I can't work out how they work. I think it might be the 0926 arrival in Hexham running to Carlisle to run the 1107 back to Newcastle. I'm not sure what would do the 0927 short back to Newcastle though, possibly one off a scholars working?

It must be uneconomic then, with the equivalent of three light runs a.m. Jesmond to Hexham and one to Carlisle, plus three in the evening Hexham to Jesmond. It's just Arriva's obsession with competing with Northern's Tynedalexpress. Although I generally agree with competition and am opposed to the Tyne & Wear "Quality Contracts" which would in the long run be unaffordable and give a worse service than now, Hexham to Newcastle is an example of where competition becomes silly, even more so than Arriva's 1/X1 v Northern's OK1 was.

Losing the service completely through Gilsland? Absolutely horrible. I live in a nearby village which has a lot of people that rely on the service; not any more. I love how Arriva describe these changes as 'improvements' - they're clearly not. I also like how they seem to express the changes as beneficial to everyone... the only people it is beneficial to is Arriva themselves as they are biting back to Go North East's X84/X85 competition!

Losing the 0555 ex-Newcastle straight through to Carlisle because of 'low passenger numbers' is complete nonsense. I get that bus into Carlisle to get to work whenever I can't get a lift - was perfect, got into Carlisle at 8, 30 minutes before I start work. Every time I've used that bus it has been very well used, especially from Low Row onwards.

In their message ( http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedImage...20new2.jpg ) they have said that "an alternative Stagecoach bus is available between Brampton and Carlisle" - what about the people that live inbetween Hexham and Brampton (ie me)? The earliest I can get into Carlisle by bus is now 9am so I will be using the train from now on.

The local area manager was on a bus I was on once and he was explaining the changes; how Arriva are going to liaise with Cumbria County Council for the likes of Gilsland and Low Row to put on a mini-bus connecting the A69 with the villages. Not a word has been said since, as I said they are in it for the money. Not the people.
He also suggested Arriva would work the Sunday service straight through to Carlisle instead of having a non-guaranteed connection between Arriva and Stagecoach at Hexham. That hasn't changed so no doubt people will still miss their bus. Same with the 1845 ex-Newcastle! Daft!

Anyway, slight rant over - I notice in that flyer, Arriva said that they have got another Omnicity spare at Newcastle for a replacement instead of the Pulsars (I don't blame them) - is this 4663 and has it moved to Jesmond yet?



Re dead mileage...
The Mon-Fri 0632 Hexham Dickson Drive X85 to Newcastle seems to run empty from Newcastle,

Mon-Fri and Sat (10 mins later) 0635 85/685 ex-Newcastle surely can't then form the 0907 out from Carlisle with it terminating at 0846 due to drivers needing their break?

The last Arriva service out of Newcastle for Carlisle direct is the 1745 which gets to Carlisle for 1956. This surely can't form the 2007 out (the last service of the day) so if so, it must then run to Jesmond(!)

The last Arriva service out of Newcastle for Hexham is the 1945, which gets to Hexham for 2030. There are no Hexham to Newcastle journeys after 1937 which means that would have to run back to Jesmond too!


---

Going on that basis that 2 buses run empty to/from Hexham and Jesmond and one from Carlisle to Jesmond;
Hexham to Jesmond is 22.5 miles or 31mins and
Carlisle to Jesmond is 58.3 miles or 1hour 17mins.

In total that is approximately 105 'dead' miles every day!


Sean

(10 Dec 2013, 9:45 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote It must be uneconomic then, with the equivalent of three light runs a.m. Jesmond to Hexham and one to Carlisle, plus three in the evening Hexham to Jesmond. It's just Arriva's obsession with competing with Northern's Tynedalexpress. Although I generally agree with competition and am opposed to the Tyne & Wear "Quality Contracts" which would in the long run be unaffordable and give a worse service than now, Hexham to Newcastle is an example of where competition becomes silly, even more so than Arriva's 1/X1 v Northern's OK1 was.

Arriva's obsession with competing with the Tynedale Express?! I thought I had mis-read that ridiculous comment, but upon re-reading it I realised I hadn't. So what you are saying is that Arriva should pack up and leave as soon as competition appears? I suspect not. GNE have decided to have a bite on this, so surely they have the obsession for competing (like with the OK1).

I agree competition does become silly from the passenger perspective, but both the recent 1/X1 v OK1 and the recent 685 v X85 service battles were instigated by one operator and one operator alone, who evidently saw a perceived gap in the market. Arriva are simply responding to the competition. Any company out in the real world would do the same, whether it be a bus company responding to a bus company or a supermarket responding to a competitor building a store next door.

The Hexham to Newcastle corridor cannot and will not support the level of competition that exists now. Arriva, Stagecoach and GNE will definitely be hitting minimal profit margins or more likely taking a loss. Come 18 months time, I suspect 1 or more operators will have withdrawn from this section as it cannot be sustainable in the current form for all operators involved.

(10 Dec 2013, 9:57 pm)northern156 wrote Losing the service completely through Gilsland? Absolutely horrible. I live in a nearby village which has a lot of people that rely on the service; not any more. I love how Arriva describe these changes as 'improvements' - they're clearly not. I also like how they seem to express the changes as beneficial to everyone... the only people it is beneficial to is Arriva themselves as they are biting back to Go North East's X84/X85 competition!

Losing the 0555 ex-Newcastle straight through to Carlisle because of 'low passenger numbers' is complete nonsense. I get that bus into Carlisle to get to work whenever I can't get a lift - was perfect, got into Carlisle at 8, 30 minutes before I start work. Every time I've used that bus it has been very well used, especially from Low Row onwards.

In their message ( http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedImage...20new2.jpg ) they have said that "an alternative Stagecoach bus is available between Brampton and Carlisle" - what about the people that live inbetween Hexham and Brampton (ie me)? The earliest I can get into Carlisle by bus is now 9am so I will be using the train from now on.

The local area manager was on a bus I was on once and he was explaining the changes; how Arriva are going to liaise with Cumbria County Council for the likes of Gilsland and Low Row to put on a mini-bus connecting the A69 with the villages. Not a word has been said since, as I said they are in it for the money. Not the people.
He also suggested Arriva would work the Sunday service straight through to Carlisle instead of having a non-guaranteed connection between Arriva and Stagecoach at Hexham. That hasn't changed so no doubt people will still miss their bus. Same with the 1845 ex-Newcastle! Daft!

Anyway, slight rant over - I notice in that flyer, Arriva said that they have got another Omnicity spare at Newcastle for a replacement instead of the Pulsars (I don't blame them) - is this 4663 and has it moved to Jesmond yet?



Re dead mileage...
The Mon-Fri 0632 Hexham Dickson Drive X85 to Newcastle seems to run empty from Newcastle,

Mon-Fri and Sat (10 mins later) 0635 85/685 ex-Newcastle surely can't then form the 0907 out from Carlisle with it terminating at 0846 due to drivers needing their break?

The last Arriva service out of Newcastle for Carlisle direct is the 1745 which gets to Carlisle for 1956. This surely can't form the 2007 out (the last service of the day) so if so, it must then run to Jesmond(!)

The last Arriva service out of Newcastle for Hexham is the 1945, which gets to Hexham for 2030. There are no Hexham to Newcastle journeys after 1937 which means that would have to run back to Jesmond too!


---

Going on that basis that 2 buses run empty to/from Hexham and Jesmond and one from Carlisle to Jesmond;
Hexham to Jesmond is 22.5 miles or 31mins and
Carlisle to Jesmond is 58.3 miles or 1hour 17mins.

In total that is approximately 105 'dead' miles every day!


Sean

Without looking at the timetables fully, if there isn't an empty run to Carlisle, is one bus stabled in Carlisle overnight?
The only other idea without doing any maths, is a second driver tags along, taking over at some point.

(10 Dec 2013, 9:58 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Arriva's obsession with competing with the Tynedale Express?! I thought I had mis-read that ridiculous comment, but upon re-reading it I realised I hadn't. So what you are saying is that Arriva should pack up and leave as soon as competition appears? I suspect not. GNE have decided to have a bite on this, so surely they have the obsession for competing (like with the OK1).

I agree competition does become silly from the passenger perspective, but both the recent 1/X1 v OK1 and the recent 685 v X85 service battles were instigated by one operator and one operator alone, who evidently saw a perceived gap in the market. Arriva are simply responding to the competition. Any company out in the real world would do the same, whether it be a bus company responding to a bus company or a supermarket responding to a competitor building a store next door.

The Hexham to Newcastle corridor cannot and will not support the level of competition that exists now. Arriva, Stagecoach and GNE will definitely be hitting minimal profit margins or more likely taking a loss. Come 18 months time, I suspect 1 or more operators will have withdrawn from this section as it cannot be sustainable in the current form for all operators involved.

It baffles me more than coming across silly. Competing on routes which aren't massively profitable to begin with, whilst penny pinching is rife on some of the most popular services in each operators portfolio.

(10 Dec 2013, 7:56 pm)tyresmoke wrote No everything runs from Jesmond, though I'm told that one does run light from Hexham to Carlisle to pick up service. Looking at the timetable I can't work out how they work. I think it might be the 0926 arrival in Hexham running to Carlisle to run the 1107 back to Newcastle. I'm not sure what would do the 0927 short back to Newcastle though, possibly one off a scholars working?

The word on the street is that the bus that arrives at Hexham at 9.26 then runs light to Carlisle, meanwhile a bus runs empty from Newcastle to Hexham to run the journey at 9.27 from Hexham to Newcastle. Good eh !

There's comments about poor reliability on the ANE Facebook page already on the revised timetable to improve reliability introduced a couple of days ago - not good.

They turn most of the 685's straight round as they dont need a break due to it being taken off tacho, so it works out they can run Newcastle-Carlise-Newcastle within 5 hours 30 which is the legal limit on domestic driving rules.

There isnt one stabled at Carlise overnight.
It Does
Light To Hexham
X85 to Newcastle
85 To Hexham
Light To Carlise
Then Back as 685/85 Newcastle
Then at the end of the day it runs back light from Hexham.

Company trying to save money haha

(10 Dec 2013, 9:58 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Arriva's obsession with competing with the Tynedale Express?! I thought I had mis-read that ridiculous comment, but upon re-reading it I realised I hadn't. So what you are saying is that Arriva should pack up and leave as soon as competition appears? I suspect not. GNE have decided to have a bite on this, so surely they have the obsession for competing (like with the OK1).

I agree competition does become silly from the passenger perspective, but both the recent 1/X1 v OK1 and the recent 685 v X85 service battles were instigated by one operator and one operator alone, who evidently saw a perceived gap in the market. Arriva are simply responding to the competition. Any company out in the real world would do the same, whether it be a bus company responding to a bus company or a supermarket responding to a competitor building a store next door.

The Hexham to Newcastle corridor cannot and will not support the level of competition that exists now. Arriva, Stagecoach and GNE will definitely be hitting minimal profit margins or more likely taking a loss. Come 18 months time, I suspect 1 or more operators will have withdrawn from this section as it cannot be sustainable in the current form for all operators involved.

So sod the regular long standing customers for the sake of a bit of retaliation?

I believe the spare Scania at Jesmond is 4653 as planned but good luck trying to use that on the 685...

Stockton MPD now has a front LED presumably out of withdrawn 4072, which is dumped in Stockton's yard and has already donated various parts to other vehicles.

(11 Dec 2013, 11:12 am)Richard Smiles wrote Which MPD? Scott. Regards Richard

1756

(11 Dec 2013, 11:20 am)Kuyoyo wrote 1756

Woops!! Never post when tired! lol

Still spending money on them awful Urban 90 MPDs. You'd think they would have held on to refurbished 1736/8 in preference to them.

(11 Dec 2013, 6:06 pm)Roland Pratt wrote Still spending money on them awful Urban 90 MPDs. You'd think they would have held on to refurbished 1736/8 in preference to them.

Hardly spending money on it... It's a hardly a massive job to swap a flipdot for an LED Hanover screen. They're still due to go next year.

Not sure if it has been noted, but 4051 is at Jesmond. Was on the 306 yesterday.

(11 Dec 2013, 9:14 am)Roland Pratt wrote So sod the regular long standing customers for the sake of a bit of retaliation?

Exactly. It's a question of SERVICE v COMPETITION. I agree that Northern starting the X84/85 between Hexham and Newcastle was opportunistic (although they did run the 684 hourly, albeit slower), more so than the introduction of the OK1 which did fill a gap in the market with a fast bus Crook - Bishop - Darlington and on a different route than Arriva's 1/1B ie via the new shops at St Helens and West Auckland rather than Shildon. But Arriva's response to the Tynedalexpress has put competition before service, as northern156 has lost his early SERVICE to Carlisle, so Arriva can COMPETE with GNE between Hexham and Newcastle, even though to do this they now have five light workings between Jesmond and Hexham and one all the way to Carlisle, instead of the one they had before (the return of the evening X85). Why didn't they just retime their X85's to run in front of Northern? Yes, they've saved three long layovers in Carlisle in the morning (assuming the word on the street is correct that the empty bus works the 1107) and two in the evening, but there must still be four long breaks in Carlisle between 1256 and 1707, unless the Tardis has regenerated as an OmniCity! It's silly, illogical and commercially it can't be financially viable as the revenue Arriva may claw back from GNE will be gobbled up by all the empty running.

(11 Dec 2013, 6:59 pm)Tom wrote Not sure if it has been noted, but 4051 is at Jesmond. Was on the 306 yesterday.

Yes, it has replaced 4072 hence the references to that being striped of parts in Stockton.

(11 Dec 2013, 6:59 pm)Tom wrote Not sure if it has been noted, but 4051 is at Jesmond. Was on the 306 yesterday.

I'm told 4004 is still on the road too! 4054 is now withdrawn but believed to still reside in Jesmond.

(11 Dec 2013, 7:49 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'm told 4004 is still on the road too! 4054 is now withdrawn but believed to still reside in Jesmond.

Indeed it is, Seen on the 52 to Cramlington @ Haymarket Last Friday
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/11300810633/

4075 was seen dumped at Ashington on Tuesday

The Sapphire Launch:

"A Captains Tale 6" was on the 42 and the Versa Demo was out Today on the 64

(12 Dec 2013, 7:44 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote "A Captains Tale 6" was on the 42 and the Versa Demo was out Today on the 64

6 and 42 interwork, so not rare really.

(12 Dec 2013, 8:00 pm)Tom wrote 6 and 42 interwork, so not rare really.

Do think it's a bit backward... Introducing branding on a service which interworks with another - especially when branding isn't a common thing in the Arriva North East network.
I'll jump in before people say, "Go North East have services which do that too". To those people - I've criticised GNE's services which do that too.