What about this
1 Slatyford-Cobalt Every 30 mins
1A Slatyford to Quorum and Balliol Business Park Every 30 mins
Combined 15 mins service between Coach Lane and Slatyford

New service X36 Hartlepool Interchange- Middlesbrough via North Tees Hospital 

service 36 reduced to half hourly with new service X36 combining to keep 15 minute service Between Hartlepool and Middlesbrough. 

X36 Hartlepool Interchange then 36 route to Billingham Town Centre A19 Norton North Tees Hospital direct to Middlesbrough.  All 36 journeys to terminate at Hartlepool Interchange via original route of York Road and Victoria Road.  

Service X1 High Tunstall - James Cook Hospital via Seaton Cares. 
Hartlepool service 1 back to Hourly towards Middlesbrough with new service X1 combining to keep 30 minutes service to Middlesbrough.  
X1 Current service 1 route between High Tunstall and Hartlepool Town Centre then Park Road, Huckelovan Way, Mainsforth Terrace, Coronation Drive, Warrior Park, Station Lane, Seaton Carew Bus Station, Tees Road then current service 1 route to Middlesbrough bus station then limited stop to James Cook hospital via Linthorpe     

Service 1 rerouted via Current route but no longer serving Warrior Park operating via Elizabeth Way to Bus Station then current route to Middlesbrough.   

Hartlepool Town services 

Service 2 Throston Grange - Seaton Carew
Via University Hospital, Raby Road Town Centre Brenda Road, Teesbay Retail Park, Seaton Lane and Warrior Park.   

Service 5 Clavering - South Fens  Via Service 6 route to Mill House then Raby Road, Victoria Road, York Road, Stockton Road, Oxford Road, Caledonian Road, Westbrook Avenue, Tynebrook Avenue, Catcote Road. 

Service 7 Will operate via Interchange to connect with rail services every 30 minutes.  

Teesside 

Stockton Services 
New Service 53 Low Grange - Billingham - Billingham Green - Norton - Stockton - Portrack Lane.   Will link with service 52 at Low Grange and no longer link with 58. Both service 52 and 53 Will run every 20 minutes   Service 52 will extend to Teesside Park.   

Middlesbrough services 

New Service 3 Middlesbrough - Eston via Middleheaven 
Service 4 Middleheaven - Thornaby via Middlesbrough  
Service 39. Extended to Teesside Park.

(18 Apr 2020, 5:29 pm)col87 wrote New service X36 Hartlepool Interchange- Middlesbrough via North Tees Hospital 

service 36 reduced to half hourly with new service X36 combining to keep 15 minute service Between Hartlepool and Middlesbrough. 

X36 Hartlepool Interchange then 36 route to Billingham Town Centre A19 Norton North Tees Hospital direct to Middlesbrough.  All 36 journeys to terminate at Hartlepool Interchange via original route of York Road and Victoria Road.  

Service X1 High Tunstall - James Cook Hospital via Seaton Cares. 
Hartlepool service 1 back to Hourly towards Middlesbrough with new service X1 combining to keep 30 minutes service to Middlesbrough.  
X1 Current service 1 route between High Tunstall and Hartlepool Town Centre then Park Road, Huckelovan Way, Mainsforth Terrace, Coronation Drive, Warrior Park, Station Lane, Seaton Carew Bus Station, Tees Road then current service 1 route to Middlesbrough bus station then limited stop to James Cook hospital via Linthorpe     

Service 1 rerouted via Current route but no longer serving Warrior Park operating via Elizabeth Way to Bus Station then current route to Middlesbrough.   

Hartlepool Town services 

Service 2 Throston Grange - Seaton Carew
Via University Hospital, Raby Road Town Centre Brenda Road, Teesbay Retail Park, Seaton Lane and Warrior Park.   

Service 5 Clavering - South Fens  Via Service 6 route to Mill House then Raby Road, Victoria Road, York Road, Stockton Road, Oxford Road, Caledonian Road, Westbrook Avenue, Tynebrook Avenue, Catcote Road. 

Service 7 Will operate via Interchange to connect with rail services every 30 minutes.  

Teesside 

Stockton Services 
New Service 53 Low Grange - Billingham - Billingham Green - Norton - Stockton - Portrack Lane.   Will link with service 52 at Low Grange and no longer link with 58. Both service 52 and 53 Will run every 20 minutes   Service 52 will extend to Teesside Park.   

Middlesbrough services 

New Service 3 Middlesbrough - Eston via Middleheaven 
Service 4 Middleheaven - Thornaby via Middlesbrough  
Service 39. Extended to Teesside Park.

There should be evening services in the Throston and High Tunstall areas. The 1, 3, 3A finish around 6pm which is far too early.

(18 Apr 2020, 7:23 pm)Economic505 wrote There should be evening services in the Throston and High Tunstall areas. The 1, 3, 3A finish around 6pm which is far too early.

I agree the 1 was meant to be getting an evening service again but then nothing happened about it.

Another idea I am surprised stagecoach or any other operator has tried is an open Top service Between the Marina and Seaton Carew.  

101 Seaton Carew Bus Station - Navigation Point.  Via Seaton SeaFront and Church Street.  

102. Seaton Carew Bus Station - National Musuem of the Royal Navy.    

103 Seaton Carew Bus Station - Headland via Marina and Navigation Point 

PVR 4.  Weekends and School Holidays only ( weather Permitting).   
I think it would be worth a try.

I would like to see south shields 30 extended to Newcastle.

(04 May 2020, 4:11 pm)gwarnes87 wrote I would like to see south shields 30 extended to Newcastle.

Been done before under a different number, there’s no demand to put service 30 to Newcastle, as passengers can transfer onto the X34 at Boldon.


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(18 Apr 2020, 9:51 pm)col87 wrote Another idea I am surprised stagecoach or any other operator has tried is an open Top service Between the Marina and Seaton Carew.  

101 Seaton Carew Bus Station - Navigation Point.  Via Seaton SeaFront and Church Street.  

102. Seaton Carew Bus Station - National Musuem of the Royal Navy.    

103 Seaton Carew Bus Station - Headland via Marina and Navigation Point 

PVR 4.  Weekends and School Holidays only ( weather Permitting).   
I think it would be worth a try.

Can’t see that happening due to the cost with no demand, Hartlepool is not Scarborough


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(04 May 2020, 4:53 pm)cbma06 wrote Can’t see that happening due to the cost with no demand, Hartlepool is not Scarborough


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The council ran their own service connecting all these points a few summers back using their in-house fleet. I heard it was popular but there was controversy over how many were genuine users and how many were just using it as a free bus since most of the attractions are handy stops for the town centre and marina shops anyway. 

Not sure how big the council fleet is now but they had a few Optare Solos and E300s at one point, could have been a useful asset to the town filling in the gaps left by the commercial network if current legislation hadn’t prevented them doing so.

(04 May 2020, 8:16 pm)James101 wrote The council ran their own service connecting all these points a few summers back using their in-house fleet. I heard it was popular but there was controversy over how many were genuine users and how many were just using it as a free bus since most of the attractions are handy stops for the town centre and marina shops anyway. 

Not sure how big the council fleet is now but they had a few Optare Solos and E300s at one point, could have been a useful asset to the town filling in the gaps left by the commercial network if current legislation hadn’t prevented them doing so.

There is definitely merit in linking a number of attractions up but the idea I have is spread over a wider area, linking much of Teesside estates direct to the seaside where direct links don't currently exist. It would only really be viable in high summer though, perhaps something for school buses to do.

(04 May 2020, 8:39 pm)tyresmoke wrote There is definitely merit in linking a number of attractions up but the idea I have is spread over a wider area, linking much of Teesside estates direct to the seaside where direct links don't currently exist. It would only really be viable in high summer though, perhaps something for school buses to do.

There’s a lot of car-less families on Teesside that would value a cheap day out. Mind £1.50 family day saver might be a bit  optimistic!  

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/7...st-ticket/

(04 May 2020, 8:51 pm)James101 wrote There’s a lot of car-less families on Teesside that would value a cheap day out. Mind £1.50 family day saver might be a bit  optimistic!  

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/7...st-ticket/

Absolutely, there's plenty of families who don't have access to a car who are not able to catch the train to the likes of Seaton Carew or Saltburn... just needs someone with some idea of how to make it work. £1.50 day ticket sounds ideal back when the councils had money to throw at buses!

(04 May 2020, 9:23 pm)tyresmoke wrote Absolutely, there's plenty of families who don't have access to a car who are not able to catch the train to the likes of Seaton Carew or Saltburn... just needs someone with some idea of how to make it work. £1.50 day ticket sounds ideal back when the councils had money to throw at buses!

Or money to throw at anything for that matter

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(04 May 2020, 9:23 pm)tyresmoke wrote Absolutely, there's plenty of families who don't have access to a car who are not able to catch the train to the likes of Seaton Carew or Saltburn... just needs someone with some idea of how to make it work. £1.50 day ticket sounds ideal back when the councils had money to throw at buses!

I seem to remember £1.50 bought my family a ride on the floor of a VR with a crush load when we caught it the year Continental ran it! Can’t say it wasn’t popular at those prices! 

I think they ended up putting a dupe on the last return journey as we got on a Lynx which went semi-express to Hartlepool. Remember my Gran scorning the driver for chucking a plastic bottle out of the open door.

The Navy Museums now operate the Historic Quay in Hartlepool. Administrated by the MoD they’re probably one of the more well heeled public bods who would be open to contributing to a service it was orientated around them? Small contributions from councillors budgets and some decent marketing could see something along those lines work?

Not to drag the same old subject up but it’s a good example of a service that makes sense, would be popular and good for the community and businesses. It’s a non-starter due to a system that demands a direct commercial return from a public service where the benefits should be measured in the benign it gives to the people and businesses en route.

Following on from the discussion of a service from Hartlepool and Billingham to North Tees I've thought about re-working the Stockon - Norton corridor. Crucially I've tried to rework current PVRs rather than adding in extra resources which is unlikely to happen:

6 (Hartlepool)
Route to operate Owton Manor to Marina only. Operates every 15 minutes to provided a 7/8 minute frequency with revised 36/37 below. Service 7 becomes standalone. 

36
Reduced to every 30 minutes throughout. Re routed 37 maintains current frequency on key corridors. 36 & 37 both extend from Hartlepool Town Centre to Clavering along current 6 route so northern parts of the town benefit from extended services. 

37
Rerouted from Stockton. Along Durham Rd to North Tees, resumes current route through to Norton. Continues to Hartlepool along 36 route. Passengers in Roseworth now catch bus on the other side of the road to head to Stockton & Boro but all links and frequencies are maintained in this area. 

The map shows how key corridors have frequencies maintained:



There's a lot shared corridors here so it may not be possible to have totally even frequencies on all sections but if it was orientated around having the 15 minute corridors on even headways it's less inconvenient if the 10 6 buses per hour corridors run at 8/12 minute intervals, for example. The only real downgrade buses between Boro and Norton direct via Stockton go from every 6/7 mins to every 10 but it's still a well served run.

I think the main provlem with that is you’d end up with the 36 and new 37 on top of each other from Norton through to Hartlepool as it wouldn’t lose half hour to go via the hospital I wouldn’t think.

(05 May 2020, 8:57 pm)James101 wrote Following on from the discussion of a service from Hartlepool and Billingham to North Tees I've thought about re-working the Stockon - Norton corridor. Crucially I've tried to rework current PVRs rather than adding in extra resources which is unlikely to happen:

6 (Hartlepool)
Route to operate Owton Manor to Marina only. Operates every 15 minutes to provided a 7/8 minute frequency with revised 36/37 below. Service 7 becomes standalone. 

36
Reduced to every 30 minutes throughout. Re routed 37 maintains current frequency on key corridors. 36 & 37 both extend from Hartlepool Town Centre to Clavering along current 6 route so northern parts of the town benefit from extended services. 

37
Rerouted from Stockton. Along Durham Rd to North Tees, resumes current route through to Norton. Continues to Hartlepool along 36 route. Passengers in Roseworth now catch bus on the other side of the road to head to Stockton & Boro but all links and frequencies are maintained in this area. 

The map shows how key corridors have frequencies maintained:



There's a lot shared corridors here so it may not be possible to have totally even frequencies on all sections but if it was orientated around having the 15 minute corridors on even headways it's less inconvenient if the 10 6 buses per hour corridors run at 8/12 minute intervals, for example. The only real downgrade buses between Boro and Norton direct via Stockton go from every 6/7 mins to every 10 but it's still a well served run.

(05 May 2020, 11:17 pm)tyresmoke wrote I think the main provlem with that is you’d end up with the 36 and new 37 on top of each other from Norton through to Hartlepool as it wouldn’t lose half hour to go via the hospital I wouldn’t think.

Working on current times
37 gets 10 minutes from Norton Red Lion to the Hospital, then the 58 and Arriva's X22 both get 10 minutes from the Hospital down Durham Road into Stockton so looking at about 20 minutes if the 37 was revised to the above idea.
BUT why then sabotage the current 8 buses an hour down Norton Road to Middlesbrough by reducing the 36 to half hourly and taking the 37 away to try and cover a link that has previously been proven not to be commercially viable overwise somebody would have commercially registered the H1 when the funding was withdrawn.
You aren't going to push away your bread-and-butter passengers along Norton Road to provide a direct journey that is probably only required by a handful of people.
A better solution would be, once this is over and once things have settled down, is to allow journeys on Tees Flex from the Hartlepool Zone to North Tees Hospital. It's a damn sight easier than destroying a sustainable network for a handful of people.

(05 May 2020, 11:17 pm)tyresmoke wrote I think the main provlem with that is you’d end up with the 36 and new 37 on top of each other from Norton through to Hartlepool as it wouldn’t lose half hour to go via the hospital I wouldn’t think.

(06 May 2020, 8:17 am)Kuyoyo wrote Working on current times
37 gets 10 minutes from Norton Red Lion to the Hospital, then the 58 and Arriva's X22 both get 10 minutes from the Hospital down Durham Road into Stockton so looking at about 20 minutes if the 37 was revised to the above idea.
BUT why then sabotage the current 8 buses an hour down Norton Road to Middlesbrough by reducing the 36 to half hourly and taking the 37 away to try and cover a link that has previously been proven not to be commercially viable overwise somebody would have commercially registered the H1 when the funding was withdrawn.
You aren't going to push away your bread-and-butter passengers along Norton Road to provide a direct journey that is probably only required by a handful of people.
A better solution would be, once this is over and once things have settled down, is to allow journeys on Tees Flex from the Hartlepool Zone to North Tees Hospital. It's a damn sight easier than destroying a sustainable network for a handful of people.

I've thought it through a bit more based on these comments, all times based on regular timetables:



There is a drop in direct buses to Boro from 5 bus stops along Norton Road, from 8 buses per hour to 4. That said, all stops on Norton Road are still served at every 6/7 minutes from Norton to Stockton when combined with service 52.  I'd argue 4 buses per hour extending to Boro would be sufficient for 5 stops which have no other competitor operator. 

I'm not sure it's as black and white as saying the H1 link isn't viable as it was withdrawn. The H1 was a standalone route with a low and uneven frequency. No ticket integration with Stagecoach or Arriva was available and Compass Royston offered no further network connections. This proposal largely runs on established corridors with existing resources. If anything I'd say the biggest barrier to this ever happening is how the current ENCTS system incentivises operators to break up journeys which are used by pass holders (i.e. hospital services) as it generates two journeys for reimbursement rather than one.

(06 May 2020, 11:49 am)James101 wrote I've thought it through a bit more based on these comments, all times based on regular timetables:



There is a drop in direct buses to Boro from 5 bus stops along Norton Road, from 8 buses per hour to 4. That said, all stops on Norton Road are still served at every 6/7 minutes from Norton to Stockton when combined with service 52.  I'd argue 4 buses per hour extending to Boro would be sufficient for 5 stops which have no other competitor operator. 

I'm not sure it's as black and white as saying the H1 link isn't viable as it was withdrawn. The H1 was a standalone route with a low and uneven frequency. No ticket integration with Stagecoach or Arriva was available and Compass Royston offered no further network connections. This proposal largely runs on established corridors with existing resources. If anything I'd say the biggest barrier to this ever happening is how the current ENCTS system incentivises operators to break up journeys which are used by pass holders (i.e. hospital services) as it generates two journeys for reimbursement rather than one. 

The irony being, that having to change buses can be so unattractive, that it puts people off using the bus to get to/from the hospital.

(06 May 2020, 8:17 am)Kuyoyo wrote A better solution would be, once this is over and once things have settled down, is to allow journeys on Tees Flex from the Hartlepool Zone to North Tees Hospital. It's a damn sight easier than destroying a sustainable network for a handful of people.

I agree expanding the journeys possible using Tees Flex would be good for the entire region. I get the feeling Tees Flex is very consciously avoiding any clash with Stagecoach's commercial operation. The current Hartlepool zone is very restrictive, so the zone would need to be more flexible, threatening Stagecoach's commercial operation. Or passengers would need to travel into one of the small pick up zones, being just as inconvenient as the current requirement to change in Norton or Stockton.

(06 May 2020, 11:49 am)James101 wrote I've thought it through a bit more based on these comments, all times based on regular timetables:



There is a drop in direct buses to Boro from 5 bus stops along Norton Road, from 8 buses per hour to 4. That said, all stops on Norton Road are still served at every 6/7 minutes from Norton to Stockton when combined with service 52.  I'd argue 4 buses per hour extending to Boro would be sufficient for 5 stops which have no other competitor operator. 

I'm not sure it's as black and white as saying the H1 link isn't viable as it was withdrawn. The H1 was a standalone route with a low and uneven frequency. No ticket integration with Stagecoach or Arriva was available and Compass Royston offered no further network connections. This proposal largely runs on established corridors with existing resources. If anything I'd say the biggest barrier to this ever happening is how the current ENCTS system incentivises operators to break up journeys which are used by pass holders (i.e. hospital services) as it generates two journeys for reimbursement rather than one.

From a turn-up-and-go frequency to 4 buses an hour that won't be evenly spaced. You also fail to recall that the 35 and 38 swapped routes in Norton back in November and it's unlikely they will be swapped back over since the 35's reliability has seen an improvement since the change. So that means 2 stops (Red Lion plus another as the 37 will most likely have to go straight into Norton High Street) go from effectively 6 buses an hour direct to Middlesbrough (4 36s and 2 37s) to a bus every 30 minutes, while the rest of the stops go to 4 buses an hour direct effectively half what they currently have.
Not to mention the confusion this would cause along Norton High Street - instead of 4 buses an hour to Middlesbrough (6 an hour to Stockton) from one side, you'd have 2 an hour on the 38 to Middlesbrough and 2 35s to Stockton going from the current side of the road while the 37s towards Middlesbrough would be going from the opposite side to the 35/38. Not to mention in Roseworth - don't forget the 37 technically has the 15 for competition from Redhill Road Shops. People will use the first bus that gets there but if the 37 towards Stockton is going from the opposite side of the road to the 15, that's going to push passengers onto the 15 travelling towards Stockton (and connections for Middlesbrough in Stockton - another key area this 'idea' destroys, seeing as Arriva would boast the higher frequency from Stockton to Middlesbrough of 7 buses an hour vs Stagecoach's 6 buses whereas at present Stagecoach have the more frequent service).
Simple thing here - they aren't broken so why mess your regulars about for the sake of what might be a handful of passengers a week?
And as for the 36 replacing the 6 from Hartlepool to Clavering - just why? Why take that section off Hartlepool depot and give it to Stockton depot? The mess it would make of Stockton's duties (a shift on 36s during the week now can do 2 round trips in the maximum driving hours) plus the amount of route learning that would be needed. Was fine back when a handful of trips extended up to Clavering and Hart Village at peak time as the trips could be allocated to a set rota to reduce the number of drivers that needed route learning but if it goes up there all day, you're talking having to route learn every driver in the depot more-or-less. And what does that do for Hartlepool depot itself? It's already the smallest depot in the division in terms of allocation and PVR (South Shields' PVR and allocation pre-Covid-19 is only just higher than Hartlepool's - by 5) so by how much would having a 15 minutely 6 from Owton Manor to the Marina only reduce Hartlepool's 26 vehicle PVR down to? And if that is culled down further, is there much point in keeping Hartlepool depot open?
Simple solution is as I said - open North Tees Hospital as a destination on Tees Flex for the Hartlepool Zone as well as the Stockton and Darlington zone. If there are people wanting to travel from Hartlepool to North Tees, then that will give them a quick, flexible and direct link without messing with established corridors

(06 May 2020, 12:23 pm)James101 wrote I agree expanding the journeys possible using Tees Flex would be good for the entire region. I get the feeling Tees Flex is very consciously avoiding any clash with Stagecoach's commercial operation. The current Hartlepool zone is very restrictive, so the zone would need to be more flexible, threatening Stagecoach's commercial operation. Or passengers would need to travel into one of the small pick up zones, being just as inconvenient as the current requirement to change in Norton or Stockton.

The idea behind Tees Flex was to give areas that don't have a regular bus service a link to either the nearest location to connect into the Teesside network or a direct link to their nearest supermarket/hospital/town centre. Hence the restrictive Hartlepool zone - those are 'secondary' destination. The only 'primary' ones in Hartlepool zone are Hart (which now has the hourly Arriva 57), Elwick and Dalton Piercy. Wynyard also falls in the Hartlepool zone (as well as the Stockton/Darlington zone - the only example of a cross-zone location). Some of the 'Secondary' Destinations do leave something to be desired however - people in Wynyard and Wolviston wanting to go into Billingham Town Centre can't book that as a journey but they can travel to Billingham Railway Station. Another one - Summerville Tesco is listed as a 'secondary' destination but doesn't have one of the 'Bus Station' icons on the map (it's only recently been included in the zone as well!) and at one point after the launch, North Tees Hospital wasn't included as a destination - making it the only hospital not included originally.

(06 May 2020, 1:19 pm)Kuyoyo wrote The idea behind Tees Flex was to give areas that don't have a regular bus service a link to either the nearest location to connect into the Teesside network or a direct link to their nearest supermarket/hospital/town centre. Hence the restrictive Hartlepool zone - those are 'secondary' destination. The only 'primary' ones in Hartlepool zone are Hart (which now has the hourly Arriva 57), Elwick and Dalton Piercy. Wynyard also falls in the Hartlepool zone (as well as the Stockton/Darlington zone - the only example of a cross-zone location). Some of the 'Secondary' Destinations do leave something to be desired however - people in Wynyard and Wolviston wanting to go into Billingham Town Centre can't book that as a journey but they can travel to Billingham Railway Station. Another one - Summerville Tesco is listed as a 'secondary' destination but doesn't have one of the 'Bus Station' icons on the map (it's only recently been included in the zone as well!) and at one point after the launch, North Tees Hospital wasn't included as a destination - making it the only hospital not included originally.

Yes I understand the principle of Tees Flex. I’m just not understand how it is the simple solution of improving access to North Tees if passengers are required to make a journey to a limited choice of secondary destinations to commence a journey. The only way to make this suggestion work would be to make all of Hartlepool a primary zone with North Tees as a secondary destination. This then would require a change in the tech to prevent people making journeys wholly within the primary zone (I.E Intra-Hartlepool journeys).

Let’s not forget that the hospital shuttle bus is still running albeit on a very restrictive timetable that is no good for staff who used to use the service. It’s an opportunity that I’ve looked at but the NHS seem reluctant to look at despite a better service being possible than the current funded minibus.
I don’t think the market from Hartlepool is that big but certainly linking Billingham in would work better to make it pay. You’d probably have to work a school in with it too to make it worthwhile which then negates the effect of a standard timetable.

(06 May 2020, 12:28 pm)Kuyoyo wrote From a turn-up-and-go frequency to 4 buses an hour that won't be evenly spaced. You also fail to recall that the 35 and 38 swapped routes in Norton back in November and it's unlikely they will be swapped back over since the 35's reliability has seen an improvement since the change. So that means 2 stops (Red Lion plus another as the 37 will most likely have to go straight into Norton High Street) go from effectively 6 buses an hour direct to Middlesbrough (4 36s and 2 37s) to a bus every 30 minutes, while the rest of the stops go to 4 buses an hour direct effectively half what they currently have.
Not to mention the confusion this would cause along Norton High Street - instead of 4 buses an hour to Middlesbrough (6 an hour to Stockton) from one side, you'd have 2 an hour on the 38 to Middlesbrough and 2 35s to Stockton going from the current side of the road while the 37s towards Middlesbrough would be going from the opposite side to the 35/38. Not to mention in Roseworth - don't forget the 37 technically has the 15 for competition from Redhill Road Shops. People will use the first bus that gets there but if the 37 towards Stockton is going from the opposite side of the road to the 15, that's going to push passengers onto the 15 travelling towards Stockton (and connections for Middlesbrough in Stockton - another key area this 'idea' destroys, seeing as Arriva would boast the higher frequency from Stockton to Middlesbrough of 7 buses an hour vs Stagecoach's 6 buses whereas at present Stagecoach have the more frequent service).
Simple thing here - they aren't broken so why mess your regulars about for the sake of what might be a handful of passengers a week?
And as for the 36 replacing the 6 from Hartlepool to Clavering - just why? Why take that section off Hartlepool depot and give it to Stockton depot? The mess it would make of Stockton's duties (a shift on 36s during the week now can do 2 round trips in the maximum driving hours) plus the amount of route learning that would be needed. Was fine back when a handful of trips extended up to Clavering and Hart Village at peak time as the trips could be allocated to a set rota to reduce the number of drivers that needed route learning but if it goes up there all day, you're talking having to route learn every driver in the depot more-or-less. And what does that do for Hartlepool depot itself? It's already the smallest depot in the division in terms of allocation and PVR (South Shields' PVR and allocation pre-Covid-19 is only just higher than Hartlepool's - by 5) so by how much would having a 15 minutely 6 from Owton Manor to the Marina only reduce Hartlepool's 26 vehicle PVR down to? And if that is culled down further, is there much point in keeping Hartlepool depot open?
Simple solution is as I said - open North Tees Hospital as a destination on Tees Flex for the Hartlepool Zone as well as the Stockton and Darlington zone. If there are people wanting to travel from Hartlepool to North Tees, then that will give them a quick, flexible and direct link without messing with established corridors

Yes this is a down side but we are only talking about 5 bus stops over about a mile distance that still retain a high frequency to the nearest town centre. We're only talking about a reduction in service for passengers specifically wishing to travel to Middlesbrough. All stops still have a good service through to Stockton. Whilst I can see there's a demand for a turn up & go between Norton & Stockton and then Stockton & Middlesbrough I really don't believe a 6/7 min frequency for specifically Norton - Middlesbrough.

I understand your point re Redhill Road shops but I don't understand the logic behind claiming Arriva would be more popular as they offer connections to Middlesbrough in Stockton whilst also arguing the people of Norton desperately need all of their direct buses to Middlesbrough and wouldn't want to change in Stockton? I'm also not sure the frequency claims on the Stockton - Boro corridor would hold water as I don't think people would put the X12 in the fast bus category since the Teesside Park diversion. Every 10 minutes from the same bus stand in Middlesbrough Bus Station & Stockton (X66/7 & X22 are split across 2 stands) sells better. 

Edit: is the current 37 through Redhill shops a genuine competitor to Arriva through to Stockton? It's journey times through Norton make it an impractical choice vs the 15. The proposed change at least makes the 37 a reasonable alternative to Arriva as a fast bus down Durham Rd whilst keeping the links to Norton and new links through to Billingham and Hartlepool.

I'm of the opinion that Stagecoach's operation in Hartlepool should be more integrated with Teesside. All of the reasons you've listed for not integrating the 36/7 into the town services are oriented around the business and not the customer. This is the attitude that has led to the stale and decline in the bus industry. Even so, the extension to Clavering seems no more complex than when they were extended to Park End on the other end. With Stagecoach having an office and break facilities in Hartlepool Market place drivers shifts ands breaks shouldn't be too much of an issue. The network in the south of Hartlepool could be more efficient if the 36 was integrated into the town services rather than overlapping them. Should this lead to PVR reductions then yes, I do think Hartlepool should be downgraded to an outstation of Stockton - if this makes the operation more sustainable in the long term. Hartlepool and Stockton driver duties could be pooled with breaks at any rest point on the network (depots, bus stations or high streets) as long as start and end points were in the driver's 'home' town. 

(06 May 2020, 2:08 pm)tyresmoke wrote Let’s not forget that the hospital shuttle bus is still running albeit on a very restrictive timetable that is no good for staff who used to use the service. It’s an opportunity that I’ve looked at but the NHS seem reluctant to look at despite a better service being possible than the current funded minibus.
I don’t think the market from Hartlepool is that big but certainly linking Billingham in would work better to make it pay. You’d probably have to work a school in with it too to make it worthwhile which then negates the effect of a standard timetable.

This is the problem with a lot of NHS hospital shuttles. They tend to run directly between hospitals which is next to useless as very few staff or patients need to travel between hospitals during the same shift or appointment. If the point of the service is to provide access to jobs and services that have been transferred to another hospital, the service needs to pick up through the catchment area of the original hospital. 

Do the CCAD (or whatever they're called now) still run student buses from Teesside into Hartlepool? This could be something for them do do during the day?

(06 May 2020, 2:29 pm)James101 wrote Yes this is a down side but we are only talking about 5 bus stops over about a mile distance that still retain a high frequency to the nearest town centre. We're only talking about a reduction in service for passengers specifically wishing to travel to Middlesbrough. All stops still have a good service through to Stockton. Whilst I can see there's a demand for a turn up & go between Norton & Stockton and then Stockton & Middlesbrough I really don't believe a 6/7 min frequency for specifically Norton - Middlesbrough.

I understand your point re Redhill Road shops but I don't understand the logic behind claiming Arriva would be more popular as they offer connections to Middlesbrough in Stockton whilst also arguing the people of Norton desperately need all of their direct buses to Middlesbrough and wouldn't want to change in Stockton? I'm also not sure the frequency claims on the Stockton - Boro corridor would hold water as I don't think people would put the X12 in the fast bus category since the Teesside Park diversion. Every 10 minutes from the same bus stand in Middlesbrough Bus Station & Stockton (X66/7 & X22 are split across 2 stands) sells better. 

Edit: is the current 37 through Redhill shops a genuine competitor to Arriva through to Stockton? It's journey times through Norton make it an impractical choice vs the 15. The proposed change at least makes the 37 a reasonable alternative to Arriva as a fast bus down Durham Rd whilst keeping the links to Norton and new links through to Billingham and Hartlepool.

I'm of the opinion that Stagecoach's operation in Hartlepool should be more integrated with Teesside. All of the reasons you've listed for not integrating the 36/7 into the town services are oriented around the business and not the customer. This is the attitude that has led to the stale and decline in the bus industry. Even so, the extension to Clavering seems no more complex than when they were extended to Park End on the other end. With Stagecoach having an office and break facilities in Hartlepool Market place drivers shifts ands breaks shouldn't be too much of an issue. The network in the south of Hartlepool could be more efficient if the 36 was integrated into the town services rather than overlapping them. Should this lead to PVR reductions then yes, I do think Hartlepool should be downgraded to an outstation of Stockton - if this makes the operation more sustainable in the long term. Hartlepool and Stockton driver duties could be pooled with breaks at any rest point on the network (depots, bus stations or high streets) as long as start and end points were in the driver's 'home' town. 


This is the problem with a lot of NHS hospital shuttles. They tend to run directly between hospitals which is next to useless as very few staff or patients need to travel between hospitals during the same shift or appointment. If the point of the service is to provide access to jobs and services that have been transferred to another hospital, the service needs to pick up through the catchment area of the original hospital. 

Do the CCAD (or whatever they're called now) still run student buses from Teesside into Hartlepool? This could be something for them do do during the day?

Yes it's now the Northern School of Art, but I suspect they will be finishing once the new campus opens opposite the bus station similar to Middlesbrough College - though that was for a different reason (and they do run a network of dedicated services for students to college albeit smaller than before).
Using school buses to build a service commercially is often the best way to start - it's how I did it before and how I intend to do it again. The best way would be to run the St Michaels contracts which are closer to this potential operation, but that would depend on getting the contracts from the councils.

The idea of shortening to the 6 and rerouting it the Marina and replacing it with the 36 and extended 37 is just daft.  Even now since the 36 was shortened in 2014 and then again in 2017 it still often runs 5 - 10 minutes late and often comes in twos so how would extending it to be the only cross town service help.  Clavering goes from a decent 10 minute service that is reliable to that service that already struggles to be on time.  It won't help.   

Revised ideas for stage coach Hartlepool / Teesside 

Hartlepool service 1 

High Tunstall - James Cook Hospital via Current route  except runs via Elizabeth Way and no longer serves Warrior Park.  Every 30 minutes still but runs limited stop from Middlesbrough Bus station to James Cook Hospital. 

Service 1A. High Tunstall - Seaton Carew 
runs Every 30 minutes via service 1 route except via Wiltshire Way and Warrior Park instead of Elizabeth Way.  

Service 2 Bishop Cuthbert - Seaton Carew 
Every 30 minutes will operate via Service 3 route between Bishop Cuthbert and Hart Lane but then via Chatham Road Raby Road then via Service 1 route to Seaton Carew 

Service 3/3A/4 
Service 3 will continue with current route but will go back to 30 minute frequency.  
Service 3A will operate as hourly Sunday and Evening service Between Bishop Cuthbert and Rift House only.  
Service 4 reinstated between South Fens and Clavering via Marina. 

Service 5/6 will continue as now but some journeys will be re numbered as service 5 and operate via Davison Drive, Warren Road, Winterbottom Avenue, Millbank Road, Broughm Terrace, Marina, Interchange, Victoria Road then as service 6 route to Owton Manor.    

Service 7 as now but some journeys to operate via Interchange. 

Teesside 

All services as now except 
Stockton. 
Service 13.  Hemlington - Stockton only.   Services towards Middlesbrough will be boarded from other side of Stockton High Street.  
58  Some journeys Extended to Salters Lane.

52 Extended to Teesside Park with New service 53 Low Grange - Portrack Lane via Stockton. Both will run every 20 Minutes with service 53 running via Billingham Green. 

Middlesbrough 
Service 11 Reinstated as a service every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime only 

Service 39 withdrawn.  Replaced by new services 2 and 3 

New service 2 Middleheaven - James Cook Hospital via Middlesbrough and Park End 

Service 3 Teesside Park - Park End via Middlesbrough.  

Service 18 Middlesbrough - Salters Lane -  Stockton - Stillington.  

Service 20 Middlesbrough - A19 - Norton - North Tees Hospital - Wolviston Village - Wolviston Court - Billingham - Low Grange Estate - Greatham - Catcote Road- Oxford Road - Hartlepool Town Centre - University Hospital of Hartlepool   limited stop service.

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(07 May 2020, 11:47 pm)col87 wrote The idea of shortening to the 6 and rerouting it the Marina and replacing it with the 36 and extended 37 is just daft.  Even now since the 36 was shortened in 2014 and then again in 2017 it still often runs 5 - 10 minutes late and often comes in twos so how would extending it to be the only cross town service help.  Clavering goes from a decent 10 minute service that is reliable to that service that already struggles to be on time.  It won't help.   

Revised ideas for stage coach Hartlepool / Teesside 

Hartlepool service 1 

High Tunstall - James Cook Hospital via Current route  except runs via Elizabeth Way and no longer serves Warrior Park.  Every 30 minutes still but runs limited stop from Middlesbrough Bus station to James Cook Hospital. 

Service 1A. High Tunstall - Seaton Carew 
runs Every 30 minutes via service 1 route except via Wiltshire Way and Warrior Park instead of Elizabeth Way.  

Service 2 Bishop Cuthbert - Seaton Carew 
Every 30 minutes will operate via Service 3 route between Bishop Cuthbert and Hart Lane but then via Chatham Road Raby Road then via Service 1 route to Seaton Carew 

Service 3/3A/4 
Service 3 will continue with current route but will go back to 30 minute frequency.  
Service 3A will operate as hourly Sunday and Evening service Between Bishop Cuthbert and Rift House only.  
Service 4 reinstated between South Fens and Clavering via Marina. 

Service 5/6 will continue as now but some journeys will be re numbered as service 5 and operate via Davison Drive, Warren Road, Winterbottom Avenue, Millbank Road, Broughm Terrace, Marina, Interchange, Victoria Road then as service 6 route to Owton Manor.    

Service 7 as now but some journeys to operate via Interchange. 

Teesside 

All services as now except 
Stockton. 
Service 13.  Hemlington - Stockton only.   Services towards Middlesbrough will be boarded from other side of Stockton High Street.  
58  Some journeys Extended to Salters Lane.

52 Extended to Teesside Park with New service 53 Low Grange - Portrack Lane via Stockton. Both will run every 20 Minutes with service 53 running via Billingham Green. 

Middlesbrough 
Service 11 Reinstated as a service every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime only 

Service 39 withdrawn.  Replaced by new services 2 and 3 

New service 2 Middleheaven - James Cook Hospital via Middlesbrough and Park End 

Service 3 Teesside Park - Park End via Middlesbrough.  

Service 18 Middlesbrough - Salters Lane -  Stockton - Stillington.  

Service 20 Middlesbrough - A19 - Norton - North Tees Hospital - Wolviston Village - Wolviston Court - Billingham - Low Grange Estate - Greatham - Catcote Road- Oxford Road - Hartlepool Town Centre - University Hospital of Hartlepool   limited stop service.

Will point out service 20 would be an hourly one year trial service to test demand.

Service Suggestions:

30: This service will be replaced by a revised X30 service, which will extend to Newcastle making the service more appealing to use by those in South Tyneside.

X24: This service will be extended to Darras Hall via the Airport to replace service X77/X78/X79. Services will continue with their normal frequency.

This service will also operate hourly on Sunday's, aswell as a revision to the final departure from Newcastle being changed to 21:00 to make it more flexible returning to Sunderland. The changes match the current frequency's of service X78, therefore offering many advantages, including later evening buses to Sunderland, aswell as a full hourly Sunday service between Sunderland, Newcastle, Airport and Darras Hall.

In Newcastle this service will observe Pilgrim Street and Saint Mary's Place in both directions. The service will no longer serve Eldon Square.

X24A: To ensure reliability this service will be revised to operate non-stop to Doxford International from Sunderland, this comes as a result of the continued congestion at the Broadway during peak times. This will help assist the reliability of this service, especially when the service will operate cross-city in Newcastle.

X30: This new service will replace the current service 30, with some minor changes to the route and timetable. With the extension to Newcastle, many more people will find this service useful compared to it's current mode of operating. Combining with service X34, means passengers from South Shields, Horsley, Harton and Boldon are more likely to choose this service as much as service X34 for their journeys.

Sunday and Evening journeys will continue in their current format, and will not serve Horsley Hill.

Route Map: South Shields - Westoe - Marsden Road - Horsley Hill - Harton Nook - Cleadon - East Boldon - Boldon Asda - A184 - Gateshead High Street - Newcastle

X34: This service will be reduced to hourly, although will be revised to operate to South Shields Interchange and operate in both directions via Marsden and Horsley Hill. This service will be combined with service X30 to offer 2 buses per hour between South Shields, Horsley Hill, Harton Nook, Boldon, Gateshead and Newcastle.

Route Map: South Shields - Westoe - Marsden Road - Horsley Hill - Harton Nook - Whitleas - Boldon Asda - A184 - Gateshead High Street - Newcastle

X77/78/79: Withdrawn, replaced by an extended X24/X24A service offering improved Cross-City links to Gateshead and Sunderland.

These changes would make travelling across the region more easier, aswell as more convenient without the need to change buses for journeys now. The introduction of new direct express services from South Shields to Newcastle will make journeys much more easier, without having to catch a local bus to connect with the Newcastle service.

X30 and X34 will probably lose out still to the metro. X24 idea is good though.

Have Stagecoach Ever Operated a Regular Service in Washington?

(24 Jun 2020, 1:48 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Have Stagecoach Ever Operated a Regular Service in Washington?

Favourite had a service which ran through the Galleries. 
Vaguelly remember Busways having a TWPTE/Nexus contract for the 186 on a Sunday morning. Think that's been it.