(21 Jun 2020, 2:38 pm)deanmachine wrote They may have said that, but they've given them no powers to enforce it, and I don't think they've actually told anybody else with the correct powers (council or police) to enforce it either.

The power they have given them is the ability to refuse travel, unfortunately operators and unions have decided to ignore that because it's between passengers and their drivers are protected behind a screen.
MG even said as much during his updates on Facebook Live.

Like I said, if someone got on the bus without paying, they'd have no issue reporting them to the police, but not wearing a face mask (which is against the law) is a free pass.
Goes to show they're only interested in enforcing rules when their bottom line is at risk, and refusing travel means not making money.

I'm usually quick to defend operators in situations like this, but I think it's ridiculous

(21 Jun 2020, 2:50 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The power they have given them is the ability to refuse travel, unfortunately operators and unions have decided to ignore that because it's between passengers and their drivers are protected behind a screen.
MG even said as much during his updates on Facebook Live.

Like I said, if someone got on the bus without paying, they'd have no issue reporting them to the police, but not wearing a face mask (which is against the law) is a free pass.
Goes to show they're only interested in enforcing rules when their bottom line is at risk, and refusing travel means not making money.

I'm usually quick to defend operators in situations like this, but I think it's ridiculous

 

(21 Jun 2020, 2:50 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The power they have given them is the ability to refuse travel, unfortunately operators and unions have decided to ignore that because it's between passengers and their drivers are protected behind a screen.
MG even said as much during his updates on Facebook Live.

Like I said, if someone got on the bus without paying, they'd have no issue reporting them to the police, but not wearing a face mask (which is against the law) is a free pass.
Goes to show they're only interested in enforcing rules when their bottom line is at risk, and refusing travel means not making money.

I'm usually quick to defend operators in situations like this, but I think it's ridiculous

Of all the shifts I have done since the policy was introduced, personally I've only had to ask 3 people to wear a face covering, 99% are accepting this new phase. Mixed messages from government I'm afraid, can't remember seeing a BTP officer on buses who can enforce the fine.

It’s disappointing it’s been so easy to self-exempt. I would have thought face shields would have been suitable for most who are medically except from a mask?

Possibly not effective as a mask but better than nothing and sports direct sell them for £3.

(21 Jun 2020, 3:20 pm)Stanleyone wrote Of all the shifts I have done since the policy was introduced, personally I've only had to ask 3 people to wear a face covering, 99% are accepting this new phase. Mixed messages from government I'm afraid, can't remember seeing a BTP officer on buses who can enforce the fine.

IIRC, the transport police have no authority on buses, so it would be down to local police to enforce it

(21 Jun 2020, 3:23 pm)James101 wrote It’s disappointing it’s been so easy to self-exempt. I would have thought face shields would have been suitable for most who are medically except from a mask?

Possibly not effective as a mask but better than nothing and sports direct sell them for £3.

Wasn't there a study that showed a homemade mask with 2 layers of cotton were considerably more effective than a surgical mask?

The issue for me with wearing any face covering is it restricts the airflow too much, and when it's quite humid like it is now, I can barely breathe properly even without covering my face.

For me, it's the breathing out that causes the most issues with a face covering, usually that wouldn't be a problem because I can use the vented dust masks, but the reason we have to use face coverings is to stop the things on the way out rather than on the way in, which is what vented masks are designed for, so that would defeat the purpose.

If we were to enforce it, it's not something that, as a driver, I really want to be doing. I don't want to put myself into a conflict situation at all, I don't come into work to boss around grown people. It's bad enough having to drive past people standing at bus stops when you've got a bus that's not even at 25% capacity, never mind tell someone they can't travel home because they don't have something covering their face.

(21 Jun 2020, 4:10 pm)deanmachine wrote If we were to enforce it, it's not something that, as a driver, I really want to be doing. I don't want to put myself into a conflict situation at all, I don't come into work to boss around grown people. It's bad enough having to drive past people standing at bus stops when you've got a bus that's not even at 25% capacity, never mind tell someone they can't travel home because they don't have something covering their face.

I get that, but it's the exact same situation as if someone doesn't have any money, most drivers wouldn't let them on anyway would they?

(21 Jun 2020, 4:13 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I get that, but it's the exact same situation as if someone doesn't have any money, most drivers wouldn't let them on anyway would they?

Much less likely to encounter someone without any money. Even currently with no change given, there's nearly always some way for them to pay. Honestly, my biggest worry about is making someone with a hidden disability have to disclose something they'd rather not with a random bus driver. Most people are compliant however. (At least when we're looking)

(21 Jun 2020, 4:18 pm)deanmachine wrote Much less likely to encounter someone without any money. Even currently with no change given, there's nearly always some way for them to pay. Honestly, my biggest worry about is making someone with a hidden disability have to disclose something they'd rather not with a random bus driver. Most people are compliant however. (At least when we're looking)

Which is why they can make use of the different card schemes that they can just show the driver.

I know when I was travelling without wearing a mask I purposely didn't say anything to the driver to see if I would be asked about it, and I wasn't (I did try on the first bus I got but I had to take it off as I literally couldn't breathe)

I'd be interested to see what would happen if a load of people on a bus caught COVID from a passenger not wearing a mask and the driver hadn't questioned it, who would be at fault? (hypothetically speaking of course!) I'd lean towards the operator being at fault as it is a condition of travel to wear a face covering, and the passenger was not, so they shouldn't have been allowed to travel

(21 Jun 2020, 4:54 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Which is why they can make use of the different card schemes that they can just show the driver.

I know when I was travelling without wearing a mask I purposely didn't say anything to the driver to see if I would be asked about it, and I wasn't (I did try on the first bus I got but I had to take it off as I literally couldn't breathe)

I'd be interested to see what would happen if a load of people on a bus caught COVID from a passenger not wearing a mask and the driver hadn't questioned it, who would be at fault? (hypothetically speaking of course!) I'd lean towards the operator being at fault as it is a condition of travel to wear a face covering, and the passenger was not, so they shouldn't have been allowed to travel

There's 2 current drivers telling you how it is in the real world of public transport. It's not part of our conditions of travel, I know you've highlighted what government said, but it's simply not the case.

(21 Jun 2020, 6:11 pm)Stanleyone wrote There's 2 current drivers telling you how it is in the real world of public transport. It's not part of our conditions of travel, I know you've highlighted what government said, but it's simply not the case.

The fact of the matter though is it is against the law to not wear a face covering on public transport (without a valid reason), the operators are choosing not to enforce it.

If them choosing not to enforce it (when they have the right to) causes people to die from COVID then I think they should be held responsible.

(21 Jun 2020, 6:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The fact of the matter though is it is against the law to not wear a face covering on public transport (without a valid reason), the operators are choosing not to enforce it.

If them choosing not to enforce it (when they have the right to) causes people to die from COVID then I think they should be held responsible.

Ok you know best.

(21 Jun 2020, 6:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The fact of the matter though is it is against the law to not wear a face covering on public transport (without a valid reason), the operators are choosing not to enforce it.

If them choosing not to enforce it (when they have the right to) causes people to die from COVID then I think they should be held responsible.

The person not wearing the mask would be held responsible...

I'd like to see you tell a toned 40 year old bloke or a group of 5 chavs who have no interest to wear a mask, actively saying he's / they're not wearing a mask to either put one on or get off the bus with the police having no interest in solving the issue as it's petty at best.

That's the position some driver's would end up being in. It's all good saying stuff like that behind a keyboard but it's different in the real world.

(Don't mean to be rude there but it's the point 2 drivers have told you and you ignored it)

(21 Jun 2020, 4:18 pm)deanmachine wrote Much less likely to encounter someone without any money. Even currently with no change given, there's nearly always some way for them to pay. Honestly, my biggest worry about is making someone with a hidden disability have to disclose something they'd rather not with a random bus driver. Most people are compliant however. (At least when we're looking)

I made a similar point a week or two back. 
Barely above minimum wage, but having the responsibility of a vehicle carrying x number of passengers. To then potentially face the challenge of a disability discrimination claim thrown at you... 
No thanks. 

(21 Jun 2020, 6:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The fact of the matter though is it is against the law to not wear a face covering on public transport (without a valid reason), the operators are choosing not to enforce it.

If them choosing not to enforce it (when they have the right to) causes people to die from COVID then I think they should be held responsible.

So it's against the law? Which law is this? How would you prove that you caught coronavirus on the bus and not off someone leaning over you at asda?

(21 Jun 2020, 7:07 pm)Storx wrote The person not wearing the mask would be held responsible...

I'd like to see you tell a toned 40 year old bloke or a group of 5 chavs who have no interest to wear a mask, actively saying he's / they're not wearing a mask to either put one on or get off the bus with the police having no interest in solving the issue as it's petty at best.

That's the position some driver's would end up being in. It's all good saying stuff like that behind a keyboard but it's different in the real world.

(Don't mean to be rude there but it's the point 2 drivers have told you and you ignored it)

My issue isn't with the drivers, my issue is that it's company policy that drivers aren't allowed to refuse travel to someone for not wearing a face covering. I get that drivers may not want to interfere, and that's fine, but if a driver does, they're not allowed.

(21 Jun 2020, 7:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote I made a similar point a week or two back. 
Barely above minimum wage, but having the responsibility of a vehicle carrying x number of passengers. To then potentially face the challenge of a disability discrimination claim thrown at you... 
No thanks. 


So it's against the law? Which law is this? How would you prove that you caught coronavirus on the bus and not off someone leaning over you at asda?

I would imagine one of the questions contact tracers ask is if they've used public transport, if a number of people respond that they'd used the X21 on a certain day then it could be concluded that is where the outbreak occurred. Then I would assume they'd want to check who else was on board, and if in that situation they find out it's company policy to not make passengers comply then I would expect something to happen

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

(21 Jun 2020, 3:23 pm)James101 wrote It’s disappointing it’s been so easy to self-exempt. I would have thought face shields would have been suitable for most who are medically except from a mask?

Possibly not effective as a mask but better than nothing and sports direct sell them for £3.

Some of the reasons for exception include people who cannot cope with anything on their face. Neither of my boys could. I can't even get a coat on my youngest when it's pissing down. 

And last I checked, face Shields weren't widely available in supermarkets.

Durham Park and Ride starting up again from June 29th. Only PR1, though. Howlands will remain as "Park and stride"

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e-18453701

(21 Jun 2020, 8:20 pm)streetdeckfan wrote My issue isn't with the drivers, my issue is that it's company policy that drivers aren't allowed to refuse travel to someone for not wearing a face covering. I get that drivers may not want to interfere, and that's fine, but if a driver does, they're not allowed.


I would imagine one of the questions contact tracers ask is if they've used public transport, if a number of people respond that they'd used the X21 on a certain day then it could be concluded that is where the outbreak occurred. Then I would assume they'd want to check who else was on board, and if in that situation they find out it's company policy to not make passengers comply then I would expect something to happen 

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

But definitely on the X21 and not the bus stop or the shops? That's some drilling down that mind.
Then when the police get involved to chase it all up like you suggested...

(22 Jun 2020, 1:42 pm)Andreos1 wrote But definitely on the X21 and not the bus stop or the shops? That's some drilling down that mind.
Then when the police get involved to chase it all up like you suggested...

All I'm saying is with a bit of investigation, it's fairly easy to figure out the source of an outbreak. I doubt they'd go through that much effort but it is possible

Boris on tonight announcing further places can open, such as cinema's and museums, dropping from 2m to 1m for social distancing, and how pubs will work.

(23 Jun 2020, 10:43 am)Michael wrote Boris on tonight announcing further places can open, such as cinema's and museums, dropping from 2m to 1m for social distancing, and how pubs will work.

List of what's opening on the 4th July.

Got on the bus for the first time since February today as I had to go into Newcastle to go to Max Spielmann to get a slide converted to a photo, everyone wore a face covering on the way in (including myself and my gf) but on the way back 3 lads got on with them on and they took them off when they sat down and we were not amused, luckily we weren’t sitting near them


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So I was out and about earlier today, I used 2 GNE and 2 Arriva buses and not once was I questioned why I wasn't wearing a face covering. I thought drivers were supposed to at least ask you to wear one, even if they aren't enforcing it.

There were a lot of people who either weren't wearing the mask properly (ie. not covering the nose), took it off once they sat down, or pulled it down whenever they spoke, totally defeating the point of wearing one.

(01 Jul 2020, 12:40 am)streetdeckfan wrote So I was out and about earlier today, I used 2 GNE and 2 Arriva buses and not once was I questioned why I wasn't wearing a face covering. I thought drivers were supposed to at least ask you to wear one, even if they aren't enforcing it.

There were a lot of people who either weren't wearing the mask properly (ie. not covering the nose), took it off once they sat down, or pulled it down whenever they spoke, totally defeating the point of wearing one.

You do seem rather unlucky that 4 drivers haven't questioned your lack of face covering. It's up to the travelling public to adhere to the rules, not for drivers to enforce it (we have been here before).

Quite a few bus stop laybys have been infilled to increase the opportunities for social distancing for waiting passengers. This pRticular stop is problematic, at the best of times, often with 3 buses arriving at once. Arguably, it needs to be 2 bus stops but that would take a bit of planning and cost a fair bit. This, hopefully temporary solution isn't universally popular, though, as roads are back to almost normal levels of busyness.

New Covid-19 compliant Durham bus stop is an 'accident waiting to happen'

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...p_AppShare

(01 Jul 2020, 7:51 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Quite a few bus stop laybys have been infilled to increase the opportunities for social distancing for waiting passengers. This pRticular stop is problematic, at the best of times, often with 3 buses arriving at once. Arguably, it needs to be 2 bus stops but that would take a bit of planning and cost a fair bit. This, hopefully temporary solution isn't universally popular, though, as roads are back to almost normal levels of busyness.

New Covid-19 compliant Durham bus stop is an 'accident waiting to happen'

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...p_AppShare

Yeah, they've started doing it in Spennymoor and Bishop as well. Not so bad in Bishop where most of the traffic is buses anyway, but in Spennymoor, between filling in the stops and blocking off the parking bays, it's a complete nightmare!

(01 Jul 2020, 7:51 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Quite a few bus stop laybys have been infilled to increase the opportunities for social distancing for waiting passengers. This pRticular stop is problematic, at the best of times, often with 3 buses arriving at once. Arguably, it needs to be 2 bus stops but that would take a bit of planning and cost a fair bit. This, hopefully temporary solution isn't universally popular, though, as roads are back to almost normal levels of busyness.

New Covid-19 compliant Durham bus stop is an 'accident waiting to happen'

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...p_AppShare

Just in time for social distancing to be reduced to 1M. Don't think I've ever been compelled to get within 1M of anyone at a bus stop of any type. What a waste of time.

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(01 Jul 2020, 12:40 am)streetdeckfan wrote So I was out and about earlier today, I used 2 GNE and 2 Arriva buses and not once was I questioned why I wasn't wearing a face covering. I thought drivers were supposed to at least ask you to wear one, even if they aren't enforcing it.

There were a lot of people who either weren't wearing the mask properly (ie. not covering the nose), took it off once they sat down, or pulled it down whenever they spoke, totally defeating the point of wearing one.

Meanwhile First Potteries have gone full bore on the mask front:

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/sto...er-4277612

(01 Jul 2020, 8:52 pm)James101 wrote Just in time for social distancing to be reduced to 1M. Don't think I've ever been compelled to get within 1M of anyone at a bus stop of any type. What a waste of time.

---

Meanwhile First Potteries have gone full bore on the mask front:

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/sto...er-4277612

Even before all this, I always went out of my way to make sure I was as far away from other people as physically possible!

The thing is, if the operators are saying that they are not going to be enforcing the rules, then what incentive do passengers have to follow them.
As I've said before, it is the LAW to wear a face covering on public transport, if you're not exempt from wearing one, then you shouldn't be allowed on board without one!
Drivers might not want to enforce it, but they'd have no issue asking someone to get off if they can't pay, so why is wearing a face covering any different?

I get that it's a pretty hard thing to enforce without proof of exemption, but drivers should at least try and make an effort, as I said, yesterday I got 4 buses and not once was I asked why I wasn't wearing one. When they first started requiring it, I used several buses without a mask and it wasn't questioned then either. 

If this is going to go on for the foreseeable, then maybe they need to look into some sort of scheme like the blue badge for parking

(01 Jul 2020, 9:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Even before all this, I always went out of my way to make sure I was as far away from other people as physically possible!

The thing is, if the operators are saying that they are not going to be enforcing the rules, then what incentive do passengers have to follow them.
As I've said before, it is the LAW to wear a face covering on public transport, if you're not exempt from wearing one, then you shouldn't be allowed on board without one!
Drivers might not want to enforce it, but they'd have no issue asking someone to get off if they can't pay, so why is wearing a face covering any different?

I get that it's a pretty hard thing to enforce without proof of exemption, but drivers should at least try and make an effort, as I said, yesterday I got 4 buses and not once was I asked why I wasn't wearing one. When they first started requiring it, I used several buses without a mask and it wasn't questioned then either. 

If this is going to go on for the foreseeable, then maybe they need to look into some sort of scheme like the blue badge for parking

What can the driver realistically do though?

’You should be wearing a mask’

’Nah you’re alright’, beeps pass, sits down.

Whole world of safety and liability issues if the driver is expected to leave the cab to deal with the passenger. Refuse to proceed and the ensuing disruption is greater than just allowing the passenger to ride. The police can take a week to follow up a burglary, good luck getting them to come out for an errant face covering.
 

Bet you’re over the moon you’ll finally be able to leave the house at the end of the month when the advice on shielding with those for severe asthma comes to an end.

(01 Jul 2020, 10:03 pm)James101 wrote What can the driver realistically do though?

’You should be wearing a mask’

’Nah you’re alright’, beeps pass, sits down.

Whole world of safety and liability issues if the driver is expected to leave the cab to deal with the passenger. Refuse to proceed and the ensuing disruption is greater than just allowing the passenger to ride. The police can take a week to follow up a burglary, good luck getting them to come out for an errant face covering.
 

Bet you’re over the moon you’ll finally be able to leave the house at the end of the month when the advice on shielding with those for severe asthma comes to an end.

Well, for start they could actually bother asking them to wear a mask!
Seriously though, if they then respond saying they're exempt, the driver lets them sit down, if they feel comfortable asking why they're exempt, then they should.
If they respond "Nah, you're alright", the driver should say "It's the law to wear a face covering when using public transport, unless you're exempt I'm going to have to ask you to leave".
If they then proceed to sit down, they should follow the same policy they use when someone boards without paying (whether it's a case of 'get over it and move on', or report them the police).

My main issue isn't necessarily with the people not wearing the face coverings, but the fact they're picking and choosing which rules to enforce

I mean, my asthma isn't severe enough to be shielding, but bad enough where I can't breathe through a mask.
Although if I'm not mistaken, they can leave the house from the 6th July as they don't fall under the ones that need to keep shielding until the end of July