(13 Aug 2020, 5:45 pm)Dan wrote Best practice under PSVAR guidance is to have the route number on the nearside of the vehicle, but this will be an experiment to show the route number on the offside instead, as it's particularly difficult to see the route number on the nearside on this vehicle type due to the destination glass masking (which is also what Reading Buses did with their StreetDecks which have a similar set up).

Yeah, I get that. It's just I'd not seen (or noticed) the displays the 'other way around' anywhere since PSVAR came in.
Then following on from the conversation on here last week, the first bus I'd taken notice of in the UK since returning, was the Sanders Pulsar.

(13 Aug 2020, 10:23 pm)streetdeckfan wrote To be honest, I think the 6 cylinder is overkill for even the X21. The 4 cylinder with more suitable gearing (whether or not that is available, I don't know) would be more than adequate

4 pot engines are rather lacklustre top-end, and by nature have to work harder than a 6 pot varient; especially in heavy double-deckers. More cylinders = more explosions = more power. You can't change or hideaway from this fact.
A route full of NSL and motorway grade roads on hills screams for extra power, to reduce mechanical strain more than anything else. 

I'm of course not saying all 6-pot engines are going to be fast, nor that all 4-pot engines are going to be slow. But it's a lot more uncommon to hear of 6-pot engines putting holes through the blocks, opposed to 4-pot systems, like Streetlites.

---

(14 Aug 2020, 10:17 am)Andreos1 wrote Yeah, I get that. It's just I'd not seen (or noticed) the displays the 'other way around' anywhere since PSVAR came in.
Then following on from the conversation on here last week, the first bus I'd taken notice of in the UK since returning, was the Sanders Pulsar.

I find that the X-Lines B5TLs also suffer from the same issue. I'm not sure why the location of the route number needs to be stipulated, so long as it's substantially large and visible. The location should be of a suitable place, to the operator's suitability.

(14 Aug 2020, 10:17 am)Andreos1 wrote Yeah, I get that. It's just I'd not seen (or noticed) the displays the 'other way around' anywhere since PSVAR came in.
Then following on from the conversation on here last week, the first bus I'd taken notice of in the UK since returning, was the Sanders Pulsar.

(14 Aug 2020, 10:25 am)Jamie M wrote 4 pot engines are rather lacklustre top-end, and by nature have to work harder than a 6 pot varient; especially in heavy double-deckers. More cylinders = more explosions = more power. You can't change or hideaway from this fact.
A route full of NSL and motorway grade roads on hills screams for extra power, to reduce mechanical strain more than anything else. 

I'm of course not saying all 6-pot engines are going to be fast, nor that all 4-pot engines are going to be slow. But it's a lot more uncommon to hear of 6-pot engines putting holes through the blocks, opposed to 4-pot systems, like Streetlites.

---

I find that the X-Lines B5TLs also suffer from the same issue. I'm not sure why the location of the route number needs to be stipulated, so long as it's substantially large and visible. The location should be of a suitable place, to the operator's suitability.

There is a few operators that prefer their numbers to be on the left, Transdev do it and First Leeds (which is to do with the bus station design in Leeds I'm told!). Personally I prefer it on the right (nearside next to the kerb) as when you have a line of 2 or 3 buses coming towards you it can be impossible to see which route the ones behind the front bus is on. It's a matter of personal taste for sure but I think it helps more people out set up like that.

(14 Aug 2020, 10:25 am)Jamie M wrote 4 pot engines are rather lacklustre top-end, and by nature have to work harder than a 6 pot varient; especially in heavy double-deckers. More cylinders = more explosions = more power. You can't change or hideaway from this fact.
A route full of NSL and motorway grade roads on hills screams for extra power, to reduce mechanical strain more than anything else. 

I'm of course not saying all 6-pot engines are going to be fast, nor that all 4-pot engines are going to be slow. But it's a lot more uncommon to hear of 6-pot engines putting holes through the blocks, opposed to 4-pot systems, like Streetlites.

---

I find that the X-Lines B5TLs also suffer from the same issue. I'm not sure why the location of the route number needs to be stipulated, so long as it's substantially large and visible. The location should be of a suitable place, to the operator's suitability.

But wouldn't having an extra, taller gear mean less strain on the engine as it could go faster at a lower RPM? 

That's exactly what you see in cars, particularly in the past you would see the same engine with a 5 speed and 6 speed gearbox, and the 6 speed would pretty much always be more efficient, and smoother on the motorway as it allowed the engine to sit at pretty much idle at 70mph.
It's why you now see cars with 9 or 10 gears. When was the last time you saw a car with a 4 speed gearbox?

(14 Aug 2020, 11:37 am)tyresmoke wrote There is a few operators that prefer their numbers to be on the left, Transdev do it and First Leeds (which is to do with the bus station design in Leeds I'm told!). Personally I prefer it on the right (nearside next to the kerb) as when you have a line of 2 or 3 buses coming towards you it can be impossible to see which route the ones behind the front bus is on. It's a matter of personal taste for sure but I think it helps more people out set up like that.

I agree. It's a consistent approach, which can only benefit passengers. 
If there's a design flaw with the display, then that's something that needs addressing.

(14 Aug 2020, 12:03 pm)streetdeckfan wrote But wouldn't having an extra, taller gear mean less strain on the engine as it could go faster at a lower RPM? 

That's exactly what you see in cars, particularly in the past you would see the same engine with a 5 speed and 6 speed gearbox, and the 6 speed would pretty much always be more efficient, and smoother on the motorway as it allowed the engine to sit at pretty much idle at 70mph.
It's why you now see cars with 9 or 10 gears. When was the last time you saw a car with a 4 speed gearbox?

It doesn't, however, take away from the fact that a larger engine will be under less stress when coupled with the same gearing.

My, admittedly limited, understanding of engines tells me that a higher capacity engine (i.e a 6.7L) will generally produce the same amount of power as a lower capacity engine (i.e 5L) at a lower RPM if gearing is the same. Therefore as well as it having more at the top end, it's also under less stress for the most part.

(14 Aug 2020, 1:28 pm)mb134 wrote It doesn't, however, take away from the fact that a larger engine will be under less stress when coupled with the same gearing.

My, admittedly limited, understanding of engines tells me that a higher capacity engine (i.e a 6.7L) will generally produce the same amount of power as a lower capacity engine (i.e 5L) at a lower RPM if gearing is the same. Therefore as well as it having more at the top end, it's also under less stress for the most part.

Either way, regardless of the engine, it'll still be spinning at the same RPM if the gearing is the same, so say the StreetDeck is sitting at 2000RMP at 50mph, so would the B9. 

It's not really about the stress put on the engine, but the fact that the gearing just isn't suitable for higher speeds.

6350 (YX20OKK) has arrived - https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrah...datetaken/


6356 has been branded - https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrah...datetaken/


Photo's by Dan.

(14 Aug 2020, 4:58 pm)Michael wrote 6350 (YX20OKK) has arrived - https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrah...datetaken/


6356 has been branded - https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielgrah...datetaken/


Photo's by Dan.

I just noticed how tiny the illuminated Go North East logo is on the StreetDecks compared to the E400s, looks a bit silly!

(14 Aug 2020, 5:10 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I just noticed how tiny the illuminated Go North East logo is on the StreetDecks compared to the E400s, looks a bit silly!

Probably not illuminated so doesn't look as bright, sharp or clear

(14 Aug 2020, 5:13 pm)JP6004 wrote Probably not illuminated so doesn't look as bright, sharp or clear

The E400s in the other pictures aren't illuminated either but still look twice the size.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

(14 Aug 2020, 2:29 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Either way, regardless of the engine, it'll still be spinning at the same RPM if the gearing is the same, so say the StreetDeck is sitting at 2000RMP at 50mph, so would the B9. 

It's not really about the stress put on the engine, but the fact that the gearing just isn't suitable for higher speeds.

Yes, but the point is if you have 2 more cylinders, that's 6 cylinders producing the same revolutions as a 4 cylinder engine.

Therefore the 6 cylinder engine will be under less strain at the same given RPM. This is mechanics for you, not opinion.

There's also factors like differential (final) gear ratios and tyre size that affect true speed. The gearing is fine on those 4 speed gearboxes. Voith's approach is less gears = less gear changing = more stable. Voith don't make a gearbox for buses with more than 4 speed, and this technology serves well in Pulsars, Cadets, some Citaros and some older B7s, a variety of 4 and 6 pot engines.

In this case, it has less to do with the gearing, more to do with cost to engine health over a prolonged time. This is why 4 pot coaches aren't a thing, even with advanced systems such as i-Shift. They aren't suitable for that sort of work over a large period of time due to the lacklustre properties of using less cylinders.

Following on from the topic of E400 MMCs I've been reliably informed that some of the newest 20 regs E400 MMCs for a London operator are already falling apart, they've been in service less than a month. Not sure if London models are built to a lower premium than provinces models due to the structure needing to fit the dual doors, air-con, electric wheelchair ramp etc but London seems to get really bad ADL products.

What are 6308-14 getting done at Bus & Coach world?

(16 Aug 2020, 4:48 pm)Big O wrote Following on from the topic of E400 MMCs I've been reliably informed that some of the newest 20 regs E400 MMCs for a London operator are already falling apart, they've been in service less than a month. Not sure if London models are built to a lower premium than provinces models due to the structure needing to fit the dual doors, air-con, electric wheelchair ramp etc but London seems to get really bad ADL products.

Probably due to them trying to get them out the door to clear the backlog. Then again, ADL products falling apart isn't exactly unheard of!

(16 Aug 2020, 5:34 pm)L469 YVK wrote What are 6308-14 getting done at Bus & Coach world?

I believe it's just a repaint, everything else is being done internally

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

If my calculations are correct, assuming the Citaros do leave as expected, once the StreetDecks, E400s, Oxford coaches and Yutongs arrive it should bring the average fleet age down to 7 years, that's compared to Stagecoach's 9 years, and Arriva's 11 years

Had my first little jaunt on the X21 with the ex demo B5s and I must admit around Woodhouse estate bit felt a lot smoother, and quicker than the StreetDecks, if a bit rattly.

Haven't had a chance to try them out on the motorway yet but so far I'm impressed. Although that doesn't say the 67 plated will be the same.

Are these taller than the StreetDecks, downstairs feels like the ceiling is a lot higher than the StreetDeck I've just been on.

I also really like the look of the V3 seats with the new design, really looks smart, unlike the Keil seats in the ADLs

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

When will the new buses enter service?

(18 Aug 2020, 1:29 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Had my first little jaunt on the X21 with the ex demo B5s and I must admit around Woodhouse estate bit felt a lot smoother, and quicker than the StreetDecks, if a bit rattly.

Haven't had a chance to try them out on the motorway yet but so far I'm impressed. Although that doesn't say the 67 plated will be the same.

Are these taller than the StreetDecks, downstairs feels like the ceiling is a lot higher than the StreetDeck I've just been on.

I also really like the look of the V3 seats with the new design, really looks smart, unlike the Keil seats in the ADLs

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Same height externally, but it could be bigger internally due to it being on a Volvo chassis and packaging rather than Wrightbus's own effort.

(18 Aug 2020, 1:29 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Had my first little jaunt on the X21 with the ex demo B5s and I must admit around Woodhouse estate bit felt a lot smoother, and quicker than the StreetDecks, if a bit rattly.

Haven't had a chance to try them out on the motorway yet but so far I'm impressed. Although that doesn't say the 67 plated will be the same.

Are these taller than the StreetDecks, downstairs feels like the ceiling is a lot higher than the StreetDeck I've just been on.

I also really like the look of the V3 seats with the new design, really looks smart, unlike the Keil seats in the ADLs

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Be careful.....you will be changing your name to volvob5fan next 

(18 Aug 2020, 9:07 pm)deanmachine wrote Same height externally, but it could be bigger internally due to it being on a Volvo chassis and packaging rather than Wrightbus's own effort.

It definitely felt taller, whether not it was down to the different colours inside. Upstairs felt identical you wouldn't be able to tell the difference other than the different windscreen.

(18 Aug 2020, 9:17 pm)citaro5284 wrote Be careful.....you will be changing your name to volvob5fan next 

I do somewhat regret my choice in name, it means whenever I'm critical of things like the E400 people assume I have some agenda against it. Quite honestly there are plenty of things I don't like about the StreetDeck and I've made them pretty clear.
Then again I'm just petty and think of the negatives in everything!

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

6310 now Xlines
Another E400 has arrived. Branded 6350 has bicycle advertisement under windscreen
Generic Xlines streetdeck has arrived. Possibly the 6 cylinder?

(19 Aug 2020, 11:24 pm)JP6004 wrote 6310 now Xlines
Another E400 has arrived. Branded 6350 has bicycle advertisement under windscreen
Generic Xlines streetdeck has arrived. Possibly the 6 cylinder?

The 6 cylinder is apparently still the last one to arrive, so presumably it'll arrive after the X1 StreetDecks

(19 Aug 2020, 11:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The 6 cylinder is apparently still the last one to arrive, so presumably it'll arrive after the X1 StreetDecks

Well I lay generic Xlines to come are X1 spare and 6 cylinder...unless they painted it wrong colour

(19 Aug 2020, 11:50 pm)JP6004 wrote Well I lay generic Xlines to come are X1 spare and 6 cylinder...unless they painted it wrong colour

How many StreetDecks have arrived so far? Doesn't seem like there's been that many

It hasn't been registered yet so I can't even look it up!

(19 Aug 2020, 11:58 pm)streetdeckfan wrote How many StreetDecks have arrived so far? Doesn't seem like there's been that many

It hasn't been registered yet so I can't even look it up!

Unless it's not part of Consett allocation and will be reregistered before entering service gaining a 70 plate

(20 Aug 2020, 12:01 am)JP6004 wrote Unless it's not part of Consett allocation and will be reregistered before entering service gaining a 70 plate

I wouldn't be surprised if they held out registering them all for another week and a half so they all gain the 70 plates.

Still an absolute shame they missed out on 69 plates though!

(20 Aug 2020, 12:03 am)streetdeckfan wrote I wouldn't be surprised if they held out registering them all for another week and a half so they all gain the 70 plates.

Still an absolute shame they missed out on 69 plates though!

From what Dan said, consett will be in service asap to allow DD to go on to Crusader, leaving Hexham and Washington to be registered as 70s

(20 Aug 2020, 12:05 am)JP6004 wrote From what Dan said, consett will be in service asap to allow DD to go on to Crusader, leaving Hexham and Washington to be registered as 70s

I suppose there's not that much difference between the 20 and 70 plates. Going from a 70 to a 21, I think they might have waited it out

(20 Aug 2020, 12:10 am)streetdeckfan wrote I suppose there's not that much difference between the 20 and 70 plates. Going from a 70 to a 21, I think they might have waited it out

I'm sure it's been said recently (possibly by Dan, though I may be misremembering) that the gap in value between, for example, a 20 plate and a 70 plate is noticeable. From memory there have been numerous times that operators have reregistered vehicles to newer plates where they are able to do so - I believe the ex-X9/X10 B5TLs are an example of this. 

I don't see why a value gap from 20 to 70 would be any different than from 70 to 21 - the difference is surely identical in both situations.