(05 Feb 2021, 7:37 pm)Dan wrote Yes, that was the presentation used at the launch of the NEbus initiative, back in August 2019, at the Life Science Centre in Newcastle. Stakeholders were invited to watch the presentation, with the three Managing Directors of Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach all spoke, along with Andrew Scott from Stanley Travel representing SME operators.

The Durham SmartZone ticket was postponed, but is still planned to be introduced, now early this year, and the 'fare capping' trial has been introduced by Go North East (on the VOLTRA electric buses) but not adopted more widely yet. Go North East plans a further extension on another route very soon.

A lot of work went into the leaflet and route maps for Newcastle City Centre - Go North East led on their production (as Martijn is the Chair of the NEbus panel). Very time-consuming and arguably something that ought to be led by Nexus, given they control what is shown and where.

The Durham SmartZone would have to be bloody enormous for it to make sense though, it'd have to take into account people travelling from both Bishop Auckland and Consett, unless they break it down even further.

I like the idea of TOTO, but it'll be a no-go for me if it it's only available for full priced fares. I think the 21 would be quite a good route to test it on.

Saw one of the Interdecks pass earlier on driver training. What an impressive beast!

(05 Feb 2021, 7:37 pm)Dan wrote .

Starting next week; the OmniDekkas will be replaced gradually by Volvo B9s, which become available on return of the Volvo B9s from refurbishment.

Go North East plans a further extension on another route very soon.

Wonder what route that could be, 21 extension happening?, not sure where the extra Streetdecks will come from though.

So I take it that means Deptford will start to lose the GNE livery B9's to Riverside.

(05 Feb 2021, 5:20 pm)Dan wrote Nice analogy, and perhaps the best points you've made in this debate yet... but the point you're missing is that the beans (bus) are actually better than they used to be.

Through all the upgrades undertaken over the last 12 months the product has improved (albeit mainly just better comfort and quality):

• services X70/X71 upgraded from ex-London Volvo B9 with lacklustre quality seating to brand new, Euro 6 double-deck buses, with more comfortable seats, tables, next stop announcements, wireless/USB charging points (and previous free Wi-Fi offering still maintained)
  
• due to the above, services 93/94 upgraded from aged Scania L94s to double-deck Volvo B9, with free Wi-Fi and next stop announcements (a first for these routes).
  
• services X45/X46/X47 upgraded from Wright Streetlites to brand new, Euro 6 buses, crucially double-deck instead of the previous single-deck to offer passengers a more comfortable journey during busier periods, with all the same (and better) mod-cons than the previous buses.
  
• service X20 upgraded from Optare Solo SRs to Wright Streetlites, offering more space than the previous buses allocated.
  
• service 35 upgraded from Scania L94s to Mercedes Citaros, bringing Wi-Fi, USB charging points and next stop announcements to this route for the first time.
  
• service X1 upgraded from Volvo B9 to brand new Euro 6 double-decks, with all the same (and better) features than the previous buses, including tables and charging points.
  
• due to the above, services 26/27 upgraded from single-deck to refurbished double-deck Volvo B9, offering better capacity to passengers on this route during busier periods, and quality internally.
  
• services X9/X10 upgraded from buses to more purpose-built coaches
  
• buses on service 4 given a light refurbishment due to 'below-par' quality standards
  
• buses on service 56 given a light refurbishment due to 'below-par' quality standards
  

All of this cannot just be dismissed, as it is being currently. These are very clear benefits and improvements to passengers, which, when paired with better/cheaper ticketing options (unlike other operators, Go North East hasn't increased the price of its tickets - Stagecoach and Arriva still undertook the same traditional fares increase, when Go North East decided to reduce fares and introduce new tickets) and better cleaning regimes (which we should all hope remain in place, post-COVID), do provide a better quality product than what was offered previously.

I really am not dismissing your point about network improvements, and I do agree that more can and should be done, but I go back to what I have alluded several times now... Is it best that operators take the 'do nothing' approach and make no network improvements (because they can't afford to) or do they try and improve the product through a cheaper method in order to drive growth and build the route back in order to allow them to make network improvements?

Why thank you. I'll take that as a compliment. 

I liked the Heinz analogy too. Was quite impressed when I came up with it. 

Are the beans different though? It's still the same core ingredients, nothing much has changed with the recipe and it still does the same thing. They're a little bit more expensive than they used to be too. Granted there's been a positive move with the pricing, so they haven't increased as much as they used to.
The rest of the Heinz range is still the same too. 57 varieties. Some in tins and some in bottles. 
I reckon if they mixed things up a bit and offered something different. Something which takes customers somewhere different or offers something else.
You can still have the beans or spaghetti hoops (with a new coloured label and font), but have the option to mix it up a bit. Sampling something else that has different ingredients or a different recipe which will also attract a different audience.

Consistently changing the colours of the label and maybe changing the type of ring pull doesn't really do that much for people.

As I said before, the network is as it was however many years ago. It hasn't really changed. Despite peoples work, shopping and other habits changing. I said elsewhere in the forum that SNE still operate an estate to town centre model in places like Shields and its the same network that's existed since the PTE days or earlier - despite Shields town centre dying on its ar$e.
GNE aren't far behind with some of their routes and regardless of all the titivating that might go on - if people done travel between those points any more, I can't see the titivating making much difference at all.

(05 Feb 2021, 8:59 pm)Michael wrote Wonder what route that could be,  21 extension happening?, not sure where the extra Streetdecks will come from though.

So I take it that means Deptford will start to lose the GNE livery B9's to Riverside.

Or...........maybe an extention of the 309 to Cambois in readiness for the new battery plant opening soon as well as opening up new links from other parts of Blyth to North Tyneside.

(05 Feb 2021, 7:37 pm)Dan wrote Yes, that was the presentation used at the launch of the NEbus initiative, back in August 2019, at the Life Science Centre in Newcastle. Stakeholders were invited to watch the presentation, with the three Managing Directors of Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach all spoke, along with Andrew Scott from Stanley Travel representing SME operators.

The Durham SmartZone ticket was postponed, but is still planned to be introduced, now early this year, and the 'fare capping' trial has been introduced by Go North East (on the VOLTRA electric buses) but not adopted more widely yet. Go North East plans a further extension on another route very soon.

A lot of work went into the leaflet and route maps for Newcastle City Centre - Go North East led on their production (as Martijn is the Chair of the NEbus panel). Very time-consuming and arguably something that ought to be led by Nexus, given they control what is shown and where.

Definitely an interesting thing, I always thought the tap in tap out was just a GNE scheme but guessing it's going to be something that's more regionwide especially since it was under Knox's part. Definitely agreed with Nexus though tbf.

(05 Feb 2021, 8:59 pm)Michael wrote Wonder what route that could be,  21 extension happening?, not sure where the extra Streetdecks will come from though.

So I take it that means Deptford will start to lose the GNE livery B9's to Riverside.

Might want to reread that, it's not an extension to a route

(05 Feb 2021, 10:06 pm)Storx wrote Might want to reread that, it's not an extension to a route

Go North East plans a further extension on another route very soon.

That to me indicated a route will be extended.

(05 Feb 2021, 10:20 pm)Michael wrote Go North East plans a further extension on another route very soon.

That to me indicated a route will be extended.

Nah it's another route for the tap in tap out that's on the Voltra as I mentioned that it must've been abandoned as it was supposed to be done in 2019 (forgot about it on there ngl).

(05 Feb 2021, 10:22 pm)Storx wrote Nah it's another route for the tap in tap out that's on the Voltra as I mentioned that it must've been abandoned as it was supposed to be done in 2019 (forgot about it on there ngl).

Ohhh *facepalm*

Have I missed sommat then? Are the B9TLs at Deptford coming to Riverside, once the Cityriders return, to permanently replace the 2003 Scania OmniDekkas? I thought the B9s would be required at other depots as they were just on loan to Deptford and that the Scania OmniDekkas were preferred over the dual door Presidents.

(05 Feb 2021, 11:28 pm)cnjb800 wrote Have I missed sommat then? Are the B9TLs at Deptford coming to Riverside, once the Cityriders return, to permanently replace the 2003 Scania OmniDekkas? I thought the B9s would be required at other depots as they were just on loan to Deptford and that the Scania OmniDekkas were preferred over the dual door Presidents.

Nothing mentioned about Riverside, just they're replacing Omnidekkas. Imagine them going to Chester Le Street for the 25, the Omni's have been in daily service on there the past few days and they were rumoured to be going there awhile back. Possibly some for Percy Main to see off the DFDS bunch aswell for when the LEZ comes in. Think they're the only frontline Omnidekka's left now.

(05 Feb 2021, 11:36 pm)Storx wrote Nothing mentioned about Riverside, just they're replacing Omnidekkas. Imagine them going to Chester Le Street for the 25, the Omni's have been in daily service on there the past few days and they were rumoured to be going there awhile back. Possibly some for Percy Main to see off the DFDS bunch aswell for when the LEZ comes in. Think they're the only frontline Omnidekka's left now.

You could be right about the 25 but, it would be the original Tyne Tees Xpress examples that would most likely go. Would cover a PVR of 6x should the 14 go standalone (if not already).

• 6071-6083 & 6084-6086 refurbished for Tyne Valley Ten
  
• 6001 spare at Hexham covering PVR 7x (TVT Hexham Boards)
  
• 6049 & 6050 spare at Riverside covering PVR of 20x (TVT 9x & Crusader 11x) - 6377 also available should it not be needed on X9 & X10
  
• 6043-48 repainted, deep cleaned and put on 25
  

(05 Feb 2021, 11:43 pm)L469 YVK wrote You could be right about the 25 but, it would be the original Tyne Tees Xpress examples that would most likely go. Would cover a PVR of 6x should the 14 go standalone (if not already).

• 6071-6083 & 6084-6086 refurbished for Tyne Valley Ten
  
• 6001 spare at Hexham covering PVR 7x (TVT Hexham Boards)
  
• 6049 & 6050 spare at Riverside covering PVR of 20x (TVT 9x & Crusader 11x) - 6377 also available should it not be needed on X9 & X10
  
• 6043-48 repainted, deep cleaned and put on 25
  

Ah ngl I thought it would've been the rest of the Toonlink batch that would've went (6149 - 6154) leaving 6155 - 6161 for the 93/94. They still don't have a home and they've got Euro 6 mods so it seems they won't be going onto schools so need to go somewhere and they were the ones Dan mentioned a long time ago (obviously plans can change).

(05 Feb 2021, 11:43 pm)L469 YVK wrote You could be right about the 25 but, it would be the original Tyne Tees Xpress examples that would most likely go. Would cover a PVR of 6x should the 14 go standalone (if not already).

• 6071-6083 & 6084-6086 refurbished for Tyne Valley Ten
  
• 6001 spare at Hexham covering PVR 7x (TVT Hexham Boards)
  
• 6049 & 6050 spare at Riverside covering PVR of 20x (TVT 9x & Crusader 11x) - 6377 also available should it not be needed on X9 & X10
  
• 6043-48 repainted, deep cleaned and put on 25
  

13 is still tied onto the 25 (13 hourly, 25 half hourly) so I believe the PVR is 7 for this cycle.

*this is subject to services returning to previous levels prior to the current lockdown.

(05 Feb 2021, 11:53 pm)Storx wrote Ah ngl I thought it would've been the rest of the Toonlink batch that would've went (6149 - 6154) leaving 6155 - 6161 for the 93/94. They still don't have a home and they've got Euro 6 mods so it seems they won't be going onto schools so need to go somewhere and they were the ones Dan mentioned a long time ago (obviously plans can change).

If they were going to refurbish any vehicles, it would make more sense to use 6084-86 to form the TVT PVR as they've had less of a hard life.

And with 6001, 6049 and 6050 available as spares plus 6377, all the spares for the TVT & Crusader are covered.

The 25 doesn't need anything "fancy" allocated to the service.  A deep clean and repaint would suffice.

A few shots of them at HD trim
https://twitter.com/pompey4ever007/statu...41026?s=21

(06 Feb 2021, 2:08 pm)ne14ne1 wrote A few shots of them at HD trim
https://twitter.com/pompey4ever007/statu...41026?s=21

I spy a coach in 2019 livery.

(06 Feb 2021, 4:17 pm)GNE6312 wrote I spy a coach in 2019 livery.

Are you looking at something different...

(05 Feb 2021, 11:43 pm)L469 YVK wrote You could be right about the 25 but, it would be the original Tyne Tees Xpress examples that would most likely go. Would cover a PVR of 6x should the 14 go standalone (if not already).

Is the 14 being reintroduced?

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

(06 Feb 2021, 4:17 pm)GNE6312 wrote I spy a coach in 2019 livery.

That would be the last livery rubbed down. They were last used by Carousel on the Chiltern Hundreds services which was a red based livery.

(06 Feb 2021, 4:17 pm)GNE6312 wrote I spy a coach in 2019 livery.

https://twitter.com/CarouselBus/status/1...63110?s=09

Makes the private plates make more sense,

Can’t have the potential car user passengers attracted to over half a decade old buses now can we ?

(06 Feb 2021, 4:43 pm)big mac wrote Is the 14 being reintroduced?

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

Don't think so as X20 replaced the 14, likely mistaken the 13 for the since withdrawn 14.

I'm surprised they've never somehow worked out how to make the 13 work with the Indigo services, having deckers on there seem overkill with some form of branding for the Durham local services (obviously interworking patterns would need to change).

The East Durham Indigo never really worked considering half of them never touch Peterlee so 'connections to Durham' makes no sense.

(06 Feb 2021, 7:15 pm)Storx wrote The East Durham Indigo never really worked considering half of them never touch Peterlee so 'connections to Durham' makes no sense.

Forgive me if I've misinterpreted you, but most of the indiGo East Durham network is actually based around Peterlee, let alone 'touches' it. 201, 202, 206 (before withdrawal), 208, 209/210 and 239 have all served around Peterlee.

I think 'connections to Durham' implied the connections available from Seaham and Dalton Park between the 202 and 265, and of course the 208 which goes directly to Durham.

(06 Feb 2021, 7:44 pm)BeachBoy99 wrote Forgive me if I've misinterpreted you, but most of the indiGo East Durham network is actually based around Peterlee, let alone 'touches' it. 201, 202, 206 (before withdrawal), 208, 209/210 and 239 have all served around Peterlee.

I think 'connections to Durham' implied the connections available from Seaham and Dalton Park between the 202 and 265, and of course the 208 which goes directly to Durham.

I worded that badly tbf. It was more the odd few routes namely the 59, 204/204A and 265 which don't serve Peterlee at all and the 208 which you could argue either way which are more Durham local services with the addition of the 13 and would be better branded for something Durham based with the rest of them as the Peterlee services as of now. Durham's quite a big place and doesn't really have anything local branded and it's a place that would deserve it's own branding rather than being lumped with the Peterlee locals.

As much as I hate the Little Coaster branding, Little Bishops really wouldn't sound too bad for a brand and is ideal for the area.

(05 Feb 2021, 7:37 pm)Dan wrote Yes, that was the presentation used at the launch of the NEbus initiative, back in August 2019, at the Life Science Centre in Newcastle. Stakeholders were invited to watch the presentation, with the three Managing Directors of Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach all spoke, along with Andrew Scott from Stanley Travel representing SME operators.

The Durham SmartZone ticket was postponed, but is still planned to be introduced, now early this year, and the 'fare capping' trial has been introduced by Go North East (on the VOLTRA electric buses) but not adopted more widely yet. Go North East plans a further extension on another route very soon.

A lot of work went into the leaflet and route maps for Newcastle City Centre - Go North East led on their production (as Martijn is the Chair of the NEbus panel). Very time-consuming and arguably something that ought to be led by Nexus, given they control what is shown and where.


That's not a permanent downgrade though? It's been done because there were temporary service reductions last month, where the removal of one car working meant that there were gaps in the timetable. Rather than run the risk of a single-deck being full, additional double-decks were allocated to the 58, to ensure nobody was left behind. Until those service reductions came in, service 58 was running with a mixed fleet of 10-plate Versas in fleet livery (those previously used on the Q3, which are to the same specification) and the three remaining 63-plate branded Versas.

Starting next week; the OmniDekkas will be replaced gradually by Volvo B9s, which become available on return of the Volvo B9s from refurbishment.

CPT - who act as a voice for the bus and coach sector and liaison with the government - recently carried out some research, which suggested that the biggest influencing factor for bus users not using buses right now, relates to the perception that there isn't adequate social distancing measures on-board buses. If operators can do something to challenge that perception, i.e. by running some larger buses, albeit of a lower quality than the normal ones, then that is a good thing. I think Arriva have been doing similar using their surplus double-decks too.

So have Stagecoach on the 30/31/36 with the allocation of E400's.

(06 Feb 2021, 8:33 pm)Storx wrote I worded that badly tbf. It was more the odd few routes namely the 59, 204/204A and 265 which don't serve Peterlee at all and the 208 which you could argue either way which are more Durham local services with the addition of the 13 and would be better branded for something Durham based with the rest of them as the Peterlee services as of now. Durham's quite a big place and doesn't really have anything local branded and it's a place that would deserve it's own branding rather than being lumped with the Peterlee locals.

As much as I hate the Little Coaster branding, Little Bishops really wouldn't sound too bad for a brand and is ideal for the area.

I can imagine the rascals that vandalise the buses around Peterlee would get off on saying I've bashed the bishop 

(06 Feb 2021, 7:15 pm)Storx wrote I'm surprised they've never somehow worked out how to make the 13 work with the Indigo services, having deckers on there seem overkill with some form of branding for the Durham local services (obviously interworking patterns would need to change).

The East Durham Indigo never really worked considering half of them never touch Peterlee so 'connections to Durham' makes no sense.

From what I can tell prior to the brand being revised the tagline tended to indicate frequent buses for connections to: either Hartlepool, Dalton Park, Teesside & beyond or Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle & beyond which seemed to indicate to connect with another bus somewhere to reach another destination such as Newcastle on X9/X10 or the 61 to Sunderland at Dalton Park, Durham is a slightly odd one as it doesn't really connect with anything so let's assume it's alluding to the fact some of the services go to Durham.
Photo of branding before the slight refresh/removal of vinyls especially on windows: https://flic.kr/p/GFTwTR

Think fitting the 13 into the IndiGo cycle could be tricky as the interworking on some of those especially the ones into Durham are fairly complex and to add anything else in would be getting close to maximum driving hours before a break has to be taken, think some is around a 4 hour cycle between departing and arriving back into Peterlee with the 13 taking an hour.

(06 Feb 2021, 8:48 pm)JP6004 wrote I can imagine the rascals that vandalise the buses around Peterlee would get off on saying I've bashed the bishop 

I shouldn't find that funny but I did

(06 Feb 2021, 9:15 pm)Jimmi wrote From what I can tell prior to the brand being revised the tagline tended to indicate frequent buses for connections to: either Hartlepool, Dalton Park, Teesside & beyond or Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle & beyond which seemed to indicate to connect with another bus somewhere to reach another destination such as Newcastle on X9/X10 or the 61 to Sunderland at Dalton Park, Durham is a slightly odd one as it doesn't really connect with anything so let's assume it's alluding to the fact some of the services go to Durham.
Photo of branding before the slight refresh/removal of vinyls especially on windows: https://flic.kr/p/GFTwTR

Think fitting the 13 into the IndiGo cycle could be tricky as the interworking on some of those especially the ones into Durham are fairly complex and to add anything else in would be getting close to maximum driving hours before a break has to be taken, think some is around a 4 hour cycle between departing and arriving back into Peterlee with the 13 taking an hour.

Just tried to work it out there see what you mean now, seems to work on a 208 -> 204 -> 265 -> 202 circle by the looks of things with the reverse in the same skipping the 204 but the driver doing down to Station Town and back. Then again you could probably get arid of the 13 altogether and bar a few grumbles at first no-one would really care, the X20 does the same service even knowing it's a bit slow for Langley Park. Sacriston having the 16 and Witton Gilbert the X5/X15

Makes sense with the branding though tbf.