(19 Apr 2021, 11:55 am)Dan wrote Come on, Andreos1 - when has anyone ever suggested that?

What has been suggested in the past is that larger operators deal with drivers in these situations much better than some independent operators do - as we often find with independent operators, the issue keeps happening time and time again. I'd be VERY surprised if this happened again next weekend with the X11.

I don't understand why a driver would even cut part of the route out, sure they save half an hour, but then they get back suspiciously early, it's not as if they can just park up around the corner from the depot for half an hour as everything is tracked these days and would no doubt automatically be flagged even without nosy enthusiasts tracking their every move.

(19 Apr 2021, 12:03 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I don't understand why a driver would even cut part of the route out, sure they save half an hour, but then they get back suspiciously early, it's not as if they can just park up around the corner from the depot for half an hour as everything is tracked these days and would no doubt automatically be flagged even without nosy enthusiasts tracking their every move.

To an extent I'd understand (but not agree with) missing out Billingham if he's picked nobody up southbound and if he's thinking it's purely a special service. But it's timetable is widely available, folk may be alighting at a different place to where they boarded, and it doesn't excuse the ridiculous early running later on. 

Equally, after it happened on Saturday, it's alarming it was allowed to happen for a second day running. The sort of stuff you'd expect from GCT.

(19 Apr 2021, 12:36 pm)mb134 wrote To an extent I'd understand missing out Billingham if he's picked nobody up southbound and if he's thinking it's purely a special service. But it's timetable is widely available, folk may be alighting at a different place to where they boarded, and it doesn't excuse the ridiculous early running later on. 

Equally, after it happened on Saturday, it's alarming it was allowed to happen for a second day running. The sort of stuff you'd expect from GCT.

Exactly, I'd expect better from a larger operator.

Was it the same driver both days? If it was different drivers, I doubt it's a coincidence that they both had the same mindset missing parts out on the journey back.

(19 Apr 2021, 12:42 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Exactly, I'd expect better from a larger operator.

Was it the same driver both days? If it was different drivers, I doubt it's a coincidence that they both had the same mindset missing parts out on the journey back.

I think it was Jimmi that pointed out yesterday it also missed MBS on the return leg. Bizarrely, looking at the tracking, he sat on the Peterlee slip road for around 15 minutes - possible a message came through on Ticketer? 

You'd hope it was the same driver who had the wrong idea, rather than the messaging being interpreted by 2 separate drivers as "run it early and miss out sections of the route".

Possibly the driver asked passengers at Middlesbrough "is there anyone on here for Billingham?" and they've said no, so the driver has omitted it?

That's possible. Why would a driver serve Billingham. Pick no one up. Then serve that place on the way back. Maybe nobody needed picked up at Middlesbrough reason I'm thinking cause the coach didn't go any further than Middlesbrough yesterday. Maybe the coach is needed in case. That's probably the reason it didn't serve Middlesbrough on the way back. Its possible nobody got on at Middlesbrough

(19 Apr 2021, 6:11 pm)Micheal Aaron Parker wrote Why would a driver serve Billingham. Pick no one up. Then serve that place on the way back.

Because it's a bus service.

(19 Apr 2021, 6:11 pm)Micheal Aaron Parker wrote That's possible. Why would a driver serve Billingham. Pick no one up. Then serve that place on the way back. Maybe nobody needed picked up at Middlesbrough reason I'm thinking cause the coach didn't go any further than Middlesbrough yesterday. Maybe the coach is needed in case. That's probably the reason it didn't serve Middlesbrough on the way back. Its possible nobody got on at Middlesbrough

That's a novel way of running a bus service you've got there like.

It's a *registered* bus service, therefore should run to a timetable and route just as any other does.

(19 Apr 2021, 6:42 pm)mb134 wrote That's a novel way of running a bus service you've got there like.

It's a *registered* bus service, therefore should run to a timetable and route just as any other does.

You can forgive the driver, though - he probably thought he was doing right by the passengers on-board, asking them where they were alighting and missing out sections of the route to get them home quicker, not realising that this technically isn't permitted on a registered bus service, as it isn't actually a 'coach trip' despite it having many similarities. Given the very nature of the service, its ticketing arrangements etc, you will almost definitely see the service carry the exact same passengers in both directions, so the confusion is understandable.

It has already been pointed out that the service waited its time at Peterlee - clearly someone intervened at this point and advised the driver of the correct procedure. Isn't it commendable Go North East has a central control room which monitors bus services to ensure something like this doesn't happen - even other larger operators, such as Arriva, cannot boast about that.

Not sure the comparison to Gateshead Central Taxis was fair. It was the first weekend of operation, and there was bound to be some minor teething issues, no matter how much training happened prior to the launch date. The same driver will be doing this run every weekend until the service goes daily (at which point three drivers will be required to operate the service). As I say, I'd be very surprised to see a repeat of the issues from the weekend gone again this weekend. I'm sure Gateshead Central Taxis had similar teething issues on their first day of operation of the SNS service yesterday, but far fewer people will know because they don't have tracking information available online for us enthusiasts to go over with a fine tooth comb. Not relevant to this thread, but on that note: they seemed to be operating the 20-minute frequency service requiring three buses with two buses which actually ran in tandem yesterday afternoon, so a 60-minute frequency instead of 20. I'd argue the impacts of that are far greater than a bit of naivety and confusion.

(20 Apr 2021, 6:05 am)Dan wrote Isn't it commendable Go North East has a central control room which monitors bus services to ensure something like this doesn't happen - even other larger operators, such as Arriva, cannot boast about that.

Based on that the bus didn't return to Billingham, I'd assume that it had already passed Wolviston (where it could leave the A19 to easily serve Billingham) before someone spotted it and decided to take action? Do GNE not have a system which alerts controllers to vehicles running so early/late or missing stops? Or does it rely on someone randomly checking that specific vehicle?

Arriva do constantly monitor vehicles (albeit from the depot, and have done since 2014) and have the ability to use Ticketer to contact drivers, so I don't get why you're comparing them seeing as GNE still managed to slip up from their nice control centre?

(20 Apr 2021, 8:33 am)omnicity4659 wrote Based on that the bus didn't return to Billingham, I'd assume that it had already passed Wolviston (where it could leave the A19 to easily serve Billingham) before someone spotted it and decided to take action? Do GNE not have a system which alerts controllers to vehicles running so early/late or missing stops? Or does it rely on someone randomly checking that specific vehicle?

Arriva do constantly monitor vehicles (albeit from the depot, and have done since 2014) and have the ability to use Ticketer to contact drivers, so I don't get why you're comparing them seeing as GNE still managed to slip up from their nice control centre?

I think it's when you run early enough, the bus pops up to the attention of the SDC. They can then look back at the tracking to see if you've missed anything out. Mind the X11 being a new service they were probably monitoring it with a bit more attention to see if it got stuck anywhere.

(20 Apr 2021, 10:38 am)deanmachine wrote I think it's when you run early enough, the bus pops up to the attention of the SDC. They can then look back at the tracking to see if you've missed anything out. Mind the X11 being a new service they were probably monitoring it with a bit more attention to see if it got stuck anywhere.

So if a bus runs late, say the 28a its ok to miss say 4 stops in Kibblesworth village out and no one bar the driver and the punters would know but do the same but running early would mean questions are asked?

(20 Apr 2021, 11:08 am)Rob44 wrote So if a bus runs late, say the 28a its ok to miss say 4 stops in Kibblesworth village out and no one bar the driver and the punters would know but do the same but running early would mean questions are asked?

The 775/778/78 was notorious for missing out the Market Place back in the mid 00's. Possibly prior to and since. 

Would drop off at Corals coming from Sunderland and leave those standing, waiting for the next one.

(20 Apr 2021, 11:08 am)Rob44 wrote So if a bus runs late, say the 28a its ok to miss say 4 stops in Kibblesworth village out and no one bar the driver and the punters would know but do the same but running early would mean questions are asked?

No. A driver probably could risk that, but if someone was standing in one of those stops, and you would never know if they were, then they complain, the driver would end up in disciplinary proceedings. As good as the SDC are they can't track every vehicle all the time, they also don't know the full routes of every bus after all. Most drivers know not to risk such things as no matter how remote bus stops are, they've probably picked a passenger up from there at one point, and if they miss it out, that passenger might be there, and complain. It's not worth it.

I see no reason why there wouldn't be a system in place where it's immediately flagged if a bus misses stops since they're GPS tracked. In fact, on the app you can actually see any stops that are missed out as they're not 'ticked off'

You'd never get these type of shenanigans from Srriva North East.

(20 Apr 2021, 6:05 am)Dan wrote It has already been pointed out that the service waited its time at Peterlee - clearly someone intervened at this point and advised the driver of the correct procedure. Isn't it commendable Go North East has a central control room which monitors bus services to ensure something like this doesn't happen - even other larger operators, such as Arriva, cannot boast about that.

"To ensure something like this doesn't happen" - yet it happened for two consecutive days, even missing out an additional location on the Sunday? Clearly this control room isn't all it's cracked out to be.

---

(20 Apr 2021, 10:38 am)deanmachine wrote I think it's when you run early enough, the bus pops up to the attention of the SDC. They can then look back at the tracking to see if you've missed anything out. Mind the X11 being a new service they were probably monitoring it with a bit more attention to see if it got stuck anywhere.

Evidently not, or places wouldn't have been missed on the Sunday trip. Unless communication to the driver was via carrier pigeon once they'd realised he'd ran early and missed places out on Saturday. 

On the Saturday trip the bus passed the following points early:
Billingham - Did not serve
Peterlee Slip Road - Did not serve/10 minutes early
Washington Galleries - 10 minutes early
Heworth - 17 minutes early
Gateshead Interchange - 17 minutes early

If they've been monitoring it closely, and missed all that, then I'd argue the person in charge of monitoring that nights services is not particularly good at their job.

(20 Apr 2021, 1:22 pm)mb134 wrote "To ensure something like this doesn't happen" - yet it happened for two consecutive days, even missing out an additional location on the Sunday? Clearly this control room isn't all it's cracked out to be.

---

Evidently not, or places wouldn't have been missed on the Sunday trip. Unless communication to the driver was via carrier pigeon once they'd realised he'd ran early and missed places out on Saturday. 

On the Saturday trip the bus passed the following points early:
Billingham - Did not serve
Peterlee Slip Road - Did not serve/10 minutes early
Washington Galleries - 10 minutes early
Heworth - 17 minutes early
Gateshead Interchange - 17 minutes early

If they've been monitoring it closely, and missed all that, then I'd argue the person in charge of monitoring that nights services is not particularly good at their job.

It seems to me like the X11 was very rushed.

There seems to have been little preparation done in time for the launch, the branding wasn't done in time for the announcement so it ended up being promoted as Xlines to start with before being switched to Seasider, and the driver for the route didn't seem to be familiar with how the route works (ie. actually having to serve the stops and not do a GCT)

You're definitely right in that if they were actually doing their job and monitoring the route, it should have been caught the first day and wouldn't have happened the second day.  You'd think that even if they weren't monitoring it live they'd at least have a look at the tracking to make sure everything ran smoothly before the next journey. 

There's absolutely no excuse unless I'm missing something...

Don’t know how the ticketing works on the X11, just trying to get my head round it, if no passengers board the X11 at billingham to East Yorkshire for example , why would the bus serve billingham on the way back up north if there’s no passenger to alight from said bus stop, I understand it’s a commercial service , but if a passenger boards the X11 at billingham northbound etc... if it’s an adult passenger for example there would have to pay £15 to get on the bus, I think the X11 purpose going back up north is mostly a drop off service


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont think drivers should need to be constantly monitored from central control all the time, to see if they're running early or omitting stops. They have to be trusted to do their job properly.

But that said, when issues come to light they need to be sorted. The driver needs to be aware not to miss out Billingham and run early, and also depart from the correct stand in Scarborough.

If he keeps leaving from Stand S at Scarborough, its only a matter of time before a bus is parked in stand T and passengers in the correct stand U dont see it and are left behind.

Cutting corners from day one isnt a good look.

(20 Apr 2021, 8:33 am)omnicity4659 wrote Arriva do constantly monitor vehicles (albeit from the depot, and have done since 2014) and have the ability to use Ticketer to contact drivers, so I don't get why you're comparing them seeing as GNE still managed to slip up from their nice control centre?

Not as effective as two way radios though. With GNE, if a trunk route (21, X1, 56) or group of routes (10's, Cobalts) running on exact common sections heading to a common terminus are running late, they can be regulated with passengers transfering on one behind or that plus passengers heading to terminus taken "non stop".

Arriva still has to rely on driver discretion for that to happen.

(20 Apr 2021, 3:49 pm)L469 YVK wrote Not as effective as two way radios though. With GNE, if a trunk route (21, X1, 56) or group of routes (10's, Cobalts) running on exact common sections heading to a common terminus are running late, they can be regulated with passengers transfering on one behind or that plus passengers heading to terminus taken "non stop".

Arriva still has to rely on driver discretion for that to happen.

Personally I prefer the way that Arriva do it with regulating things at a certain point; Ashington - Ashington Bus Station, Blyth - Blyth Bus Station, Jesmond - Haymarket Bus Station, Durham - Durham Bus Station and when a service running late just running an extra bus out or sending out a bus which is sitting around for 10 minutes in a layover straight away and sending the bus 10 minutes late on the bus which was on a layover.

It's much less of a piss on than buses terminating early ie at Gateshead and leaving customers dumped to get another bus or having to wait an extra 20 minutes at the terminus because the late one turned round short.

It's one of the worst things about GNE imo and why brands are crap as it forces you to do it that way unless you don't care about buses being on wrong routes (Arriva Blyth / Jesmond). Sometimes it's better to have someone on the ground regulating things rather than sitting in an office 10 mile away from where the buses are.

---

Also I still don't understand why the X11 serves Middlesbrough and Billingham, surely it would be better to save the 25 mins or so than diverting through 2 points which people won't get on - in particular with Middlesbrough because of the cost.

(20 Apr 2021, 3:49 pm)L469 YVK wrote Not as effective as two way radios though. With GNE, if a trunk route (21, X1, 56) or group of routes (10's, Cobalts) running on exact common sections heading to a common terminus are running late, they can be regulated with passengers transfering on one behind or that plus passengers heading to terminus taken "non stop".

Arriva still has to rely on driver discretion for that to happen.

if the arriva 44 to town was late it always took me to the place i wanted to go - not kicking me off a regent centre to change to another bus so it can do a quick turn around..... the number of times ive been told to alight a GNE bus at gateshead ( all had Newcastle as destination) and been made to get on another one.... got to be 20-30 time and once waited 15 minutes for a Newcastle service to come cause the driver lett 3 buses toward tome pull out.

(20 Apr 2021, 4:03 pm)Storx wrote Also I still don't understand why the X11 serves Middlesbrough and Billingham, surely it would be better to save the 25 mins or so than diverting through 2 points which people won't get on - in particular with Middlesbrough because of the cost.

The passengers who boarded in Middlesbrough on Saturday clearly had a reason for choosing the X11 over the X93/4!

(20 Apr 2021, 4:32 pm)Dan wrote The passengers who boarded in Middlesbrough on Saturday clearly had a reason for choosing the X11 over the X93/4!

I think the more telling thing will be how many passengers board next week and the week after. 

I'd hazard a guess and say a good proportion of the passengers who used it were enthusiasts wanting to give it a go. As with everything, a good launch doesn't necessarily mean loadings will continue to be good once the novelty wears off

(20 Apr 2021, 4:56 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I think the more telling thing will be how many passengers board next week and the week after. 

I'd hazard a guess and say a good proportion of the passengers who used it were enthusiasts wanting to give it a go. As with everything, a good launch doesn't necessarily mean loadings will continue to be good once the novelty wears off

It seems that most of the users on Saturday were genuine passengers. Most enthusiasts travelled on the X9/X10 and X93/4 services and took photos of the bus at Whitby or Scarborough, as it was either free, better value to do so (i.e. on an Explorer ticket), or they required a toilet break (so had to split their journey).

(20 Apr 2021, 5:02 pm)Dan wrote It seems that most of the users on Saturday were genuine passengers. Most enthusiasts travelled on the X9/X10 and X93/4 services and took photos of the bus at Whitby or Scarborough, as it was either free, better value to do so, or they required a toilet break.

Don't forget a coffee break!

This service isn't for us enthusiasts to get so high up about it. This is a holiday service bus. I don't see such a big fuss. If the X11 serves said stop. Nobody gets on. Why would it serve that stop on the way back. You have to think. Its a nearly 3 hour bus journey. Plus that driver is doing Newcastle to Scarborough then Scarborough to Whitby and back to Scarborough then back to Newcastle. Like someone said before. Why would a driver serve a stop and picks Nobody up. Why do u think the coach wasn't needed after Middlesbrough. Why compare Go North East to GCT. Its a first weekend service. Of course not everything is gonna be great first time. It could have been worse. 6377 could have broken down halfway down to Scarborough say it broke down in Whitby. That means you would have to wait for a new bus or be advised to take another bus. Missing one stop possible because Nobody had gotten on the way down. If it was a public service that was used everyday. Yes I could understand. But its a holiday service. Nobody bar us enthusiasts and the person motoring the bus would care. To a normal person. Its not gonna bother them. After a day out and your tired. Do you really think a regular person is gonna care that they missed out a stop thay Nobody got on the way down. Its just something us enthusiasts have pointed out.

It's a brand new service and yet nearly everyone is picking it to bits already. Yes if it did it over the next coming weekends yes I'd understand but it's a brand new service. Obviously there is gonna be a slight bit of problem

(20 Apr 2021, 5:09 pm)Micheal Aaron Parker wrote This service isn't for us enthusiasts to get so high up about it. This is a holiday service bus. I don't see such a big fuss. If the X11 serves said stop. Nobody gets on. Why would it serve that stop on the way back. You have to think. Its a nearly 3 hour bus journey. Plus that driver is doing Newcastle to Scarborough then Scarborough to Whitby and back to Scarborough then back to Newcastle. Like someone said before. Why would a driver serve a stop and picks Nobody up. Why do u think the coach wasn't needed after Middlesbrough. Why compare Go North East to GCT. Its a first weekend service. Of course not everything is gonna be great first time. It could have been worse. 6377 could have broken down halfway down to Scarborough say it broke down in Whitby. That means you would have to wait for a new bus or be advised to take another bus. Missing one stop possible because Nobody had gotten on the way down. If it was a public service that was used everyday. Yes I could understand. But its a holiday service. Nobody bar us enthusiasts and the person motoring the bus would care. To a normal person. Its not gonna bother them. After a day out and your tired. Do you really think a regular person is gonna care that they missed out a stop thay Nobody got on the way down. Its just something us enthusiasts have pointed out.

It's a brand new service and yet nearly everyone is picking it to bits already. Yes if it did it over the next coming weekends yes I'd understand but it's a brand new service. Obviously there is gonna be a slight bit of problem

Because not everybody gets off at the same stop they got on. What if after my day trip to Scarborough I wanted to visit a friend in Billingham?

(20 Apr 2021, 4:03 pm)Storx wrote Personally I prefer the way that Arriva do it with regulating things at a certain point; Ashington - Ashington Bus Station, Blyth - Blyth Bus Station, Jesmond - Haymarket Bus Station, Durham - Durham Bus Station and when a service running late just running an extra bus out or sending out a bus which is sitting around for 10 minutes in a layover straight away and sending the bus 10 minutes late on the bus which was on a layover.

It's much less of a piss on than buses terminating early ie at Gateshead and leaving customers dumped to get another bus or having to wait an extra 20 minutes at the terminus because the late one turned round short.

It's one of the worst things about GNE imo and why brands are crap as it forces you to do it that way unless you don't care about buses being on wrong routes (Arriva Blyth / Jesmond). Sometimes it's better to have someone on the ground regulating things rather than sitting in an office 10 mile away from where the buses are.

But what about if you have 2x 308's chasing each other at Billy Mill towards Newcastle? If Arriva had radios, communication could be established to do the following:
* Any punters wanting stops en route go on bus behind
* Any punters wanting St Mary's / Haymarket stay on but bus is non stoo.

That way it's a win win. Punters heading to town will be less late and outbound journey will leave on time.