(07 Jun 2021, 7:19 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Yeah that's a fair point, think it's around 12 for the Q1 / Q2 unless there's plans to reduce it to 20 minute frequency.

Think another idea is the 49/49A which takes 7 vehicles, so leaves 2 new ones spare plus 8809 making 3 spares, so perhaps used on the 33/33A contract

What would the PVR be for the Q1/2 with it terminating in Gateshead?
It would be very hard to stick a positive spin on a reduction in frequency along with the rumoured curtailment at Gateshead

The Yutong E10's from the video posted by Geoff have a battery life to operate 170KM per day so I decided to do a few calculations.

Service 57 is approximate an 8 mile journey between Newcastle and Wardley via Q.E. Hospital "Quoting Google Maps" which equates to 12.8748 Kilometres.

170 divided by 12 = 14 meaning the E10 could do 7 round trips on the 57 per day on a single charge.

For the 49 from Gateshead to Winlaton via Blaydon & MetroCentre is approximately 13 Mile journey meaning the E10 could do again around 7 round trips per day on a single charge.

I do think the 49 is top contender for the new order of Yutongs as it will release the Euro 6 Streetlites onto other services such as 6/12/12A/33N or 57 thus allowing the Citaros to be withdrawn.

(07 Jun 2021, 9:48 pm)Malarkey wrote The Yutong E10's from the video posted by Geoff have a battery life to operate 170KM per day so I decided to do a few calculations.

Service 57 is approximate an 8 mile journey between Newcastle and Wardley via Q.E. Hospital "Quoting Google Maps" which equates to 12.8748 Kilometres.

170 divided by 12 = 14 meaning the E10 could do 7 round trips on the 57 per day on a single charge.

For the 49 from Gateshead to Winlaton via Blaydon & MetroCentre is approximately 13 Mile journey meaning the E10 could do again around 7 round trips per day on a single charge.

I do think the 49 is top contender for the new order of Yutongs as it will release the Euro 6 Streetlites onto other services such as 6/12/12A/33N or 57 thus allowing the Citaros to be withdrawn.

I never thought of the 49 but now you mention it, it could work.

I wonder if the banks in Blaydon would have much affect on the range, although I suppose it probably wouldn't be that bad when you take into account the regen coming back down

Not sure they'd put them on the 49/49A considering its the only bus not going into the ULEZ. Seems a bit wasteful.

This is complete pie in the sky but what about the X66 extended to Newcastle via the Q1/Q2 giving direct links from the Metro Centre to Newcastle Quayside and Central Station with the B7's on for now until they come so the Streetlites can be moved to wherever their new home is.

Also could explain why Quaycity is branded using the Voltra design rather than the road stripes and also the mock-up for the Voltra was green and orange which everyone at the time just assumed Citylink but the orange could easily have been Intu aswell.

Means you can keep the older Versas which I don't believe have Euro Mods on what was the Orbit and then the X66 Streetlites can do the 57 maybe.

What about the 28/28A?,is that completely out of the question for VOLTRA's?,thats the only other single deck vehicle operated service i can think of in that kind of area

(07 Jun 2021, 11:31 pm)V514DFT wrote What about the 28/28A?,is that completely out of the question for VOLTRA's?,thats the only other single deck vehicle operated service i can think of in that kind of area

The only problem I see with that is that the 28/A are operated by CLS which don't have the charging facilities, however, Riverside do have facilities which leads me to think that the new electrics will be for Riverside. I think the 6/12/12A could be good options for electrics providing they are good at Hill climb.

(07 Jun 2021, 8:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote What would the PVR be for the Q1/2 with it terminating in Gateshead?
It would be very hard to stick a positive spin on a reduction in frequency along with the rumoured curtailment at Gateshead

Stopping this service at Gateshead??? Blimey they would have to put a great spin on that as they made such a song and dance about taking over the route when the council/nexus said they couldn't subsidise it anymore!! They used this as an example as to why bus subsidy wouldnt work. They had sign on their bus and in bus stops!

When they were talking about continued investment i think they meant quite far into the future. I cannot see any plans for brand new buses in the fleet in the next few years. Might get a few second hand buses from somewhere maybe.

(08 Jun 2021, 7:49 am)Rob44 wrote Stopping this service at Gateshead??? Blimey they would have to put a great spin on that as they made such a song and dance about taking over the route when the council/nexus said they couldn't subsidise it anymore!! They used this as an example as to why bus subsidy wouldnt work. They had sign on their bus and in bus stops!

I'm sure the rumour was about sending the 53 and 54 on to the Quayside portion of the route.

No idea how true it is or if it's just waffle mind.

that would make sense to save a few £££

(08 Jun 2021, 10:26 am)Rob44 wrote that would make sense to save a few £££

If/when the lez comes in to play in Newcastle, it also has the potential for a bit of give/flexibility with vehicles that don't meet the emissions levels too.

(08 Jun 2021, 11:44 am)Andreos1 wrote If/when the lez comes in to play in Newcastle, it also has the potential for a bit of give/flexibility with vehicles that don't meet the emissions levels too.

Yeh never though of that either. Although didn't GNE want to send more services across the Swing bridge but were told no but NCC? this may have been a while ago and my memory is going. Just thinking the 53/54 is a more regular service than the q1 and 2?

(08 Jun 2021, 9:58 am)Andreos1 wrote I'm sure the rumour was about sending the 53 and 54 on to the Quayside portion of the route.

No idea how true it is or if it's just waffle mind.

It would make sense as they could easily incorporate that in to the existing 53/54 route.

With the q1/q2, they've already curtailed it at Gateshead on evenings anyway, which in my opinion makes a bit of a mockery of the Quaylink branding. How can the brand be named after a place that the route doesn't even serve all of the time?


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(08 Jun 2021, 1:01 pm)big mac wrote It would make sense as they could easily incorporate that in to the existing 53/54 route.

With the q1/q2, they've already curtailed it at Gateshead on evenings anyway, which in my opinion makes a bit of a mockery of the Quaylink branding.  How can the brand be named after a place that the route doesn't even serve all of the time?


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I used to use the evening service to get to Gateshead to catch my connection after a few pints in the crown prasada...... now i have to walk up that steep bank... its a killer

(08 Jun 2021, 1:01 pm)big mac wrote It would make sense as they could easily incorporate that in to the existing 53/54 route.

With the q1/q2, they've already curtailed it at Gateshead on evenings anyway, which in my opinion makes a bit of a mockery of the Quaylink branding.  How can the brand be named after a place that the route doesn't even serve all of the time?


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Aye, was genuinely surprised to see that the Q1/Q2 didn't bother crossing the river on a night, when I was in the town a few weeks back.
Or, there wasn't a service (like the 53/54) which was diverted down to the Quayside/Sage to fill the gaps.
The Q3 doesn't cover enough of the town and obviously doesn't touch the Gateshead Quays at all.
Imagine stopping at one of the many hotels on the Quayside and on getting off the train at Newcastle, finding you have to get a taxi down or walk (with bags)?

(08 Jun 2021, 1:37 pm)Rob44 wrote I used to use the evening service to get to Gateshead to catch my connection after a few pints in the crown prasada...... now i have to walk up that steep bank... its a killer

Sure that hill is getting steeper.
I blame global warming.

(08 Jun 2021, 1:56 pm)Andreos1 wrote Aye, was genuinely surprised to see that the Q1/Q2 didn't bother crossing the river on a night, when I was in the town a few weeks back.
Or, there wasn't a service (like the 53/54) which was diverted down to the Quayside/Sage to fill the gaps.
The Q3 doesn't cover enough of the town and obviously doesn't touch the Gateshead Quays at all.
Imagine stopping at one of the many hotels on the Quayside and on getting off the train at Newcastle, finding you have to get a taxi down or walk (with bags)?


Sure that hill is getting steeper.
I blame global warming.

They did fill the gap (sort of) with the 58A, although that was only towards Newcastle rather than towards Gateshead as well. I wonder if when eventually concerts resume and there's stuff on at the Sage whether a service will be reintroduced on an evening.

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(08 Jun 2021, 1:56 pm)Andreos1 wrote Aye, was genuinely surprised to see that the Q1/Q2 didn't bother crossing the river on a night, when I was in the town a few weeks back.
Or, there wasn't a service (like the 53/54) which was diverted down to the Quayside/Sage to fill the gaps.
The Q3 doesn't cover enough of the town and obviously doesn't touch the Gateshead Quays at all.
Imagine stopping at one of the many hotels on the Quayside and on getting off the train at Newcastle, finding you have to get a taxi down or walk (with bags)?


Sure that hill is getting steeper.
I blame global warming.

I blame to much strong lager

(07 Jun 2021, 5:47 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote It was mentioned by Martijn that there for Gateshead Depot so yea. Could be for the Q1/Q2

They would have to be for Riverside depot, because that is where the infrastructure is. 

The initial infrastructure cost is one of the barriers to EVs in the first place.

(08 Jun 2021, 2:22 pm)big mac wrote They did fill the gap (sort of) with the 58A, although that was only towards Newcastle rather than towards Gateshead as well.  I wonder if when eventually concerts resume and there's stuff on at the Sage whether a service will be reintroduced on an evening.

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The ironic thing is, because buses are so irregular down there on a night, I've seen the Q3 getting delayed by the ever number of increasing taxis - that park at the bottom of Dean St, blocking the road and bus stops. 
There probably wouldn't be the need for as many taxis, if the public transport provision in the area was better.
Made even more attractive by these fantastic £1 fares.

---

(08 Jun 2021, 2:45 pm)Rob44 wrote I blame to much strong lager

Lager from the Crown Posada?! 
Sacrilegious.

(08 Jun 2021, 3:37 pm)Andreos1 wrote The ironic thing is, because buses are so irregular down there on a night, I've seen the Q3 getting delayed by the ever number of increasing taxis - that park at the bottom of Dean St, blocking the road and bus stops. 
There probably wouldn't be the need for as many taxis, if the public transport provision in the area was better.
Made even more attractive by these fantastic £1 fares.

The £1 fare will help although I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make to the taxis even if the bus services were better around that area.  I think it's more of a case of people simply don't use buses to go drinking like they used to.  I remember people absolutely piling on services like the 27 and the 639 on Low Fell in the 90s which just simply doesn't happen any more.

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(07 Jun 2021, 8:29 pm)mb134 wrote Not sure on the specifics, but I know First here use B7RLEs on all day boards on services which are generally Streetlite/E200MMC operated very frequently. I'd suggest that points to the fuel economy not being significantly worse, as there's not a chance in hell First (of all companies) are throwing away that much money if they can help it. 

Capacity wise I'm not sure on the exact numbers of the X66 Streetlites, but the B7s would be a small increase regardless - especially in terms of forward facing seating. 

All that said, it would be a strange one to go from branded Streetlites to older, second hand B7RLEs (unless it's part of a bigger plan). Personally any move which sees B7s replace Streetlites would be a smart one, they're absolutely fantastic.

Maybe they can be converted to euro 6, and maybe as a result they're more suited to Gateshead area than EYMS. Who knows.

(08 Jun 2021, 3:46 pm)big mac wrote The £1 fare will help although I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make to the taxis even if the bus services were better around that area.  I think it's more of a case of people simply don't use buses to go drinking like they used to.  I remember people absolutely piling on services like the 27 and the 639 on Low Fell in the 90s which just simply doesn't happen any more.

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I think that's part of the bigger problem and something operators need to address.
I've mentioned the 194 missing out a section of route in Fatfield at chucking out time and I'm sure the 27 was the same along Kells Lane/Dryden Road at one point.
It was as though operators didn't want to have to deal with passengers and discouraged people using them back from the pub.
Surely counterproductive?

As it stood until very recently, we all know it was often cheaper getting a taxi back from the pub. Especially if there's a group of friends out.
The evening deal last year and now the £1 fare are both cracking initiatives and along with a flexible, attractive network it may go a long way in repairing some legacies of decisions made in the past.

The Quayside seems to be having a bit of a renaissance (from what I've witnessed anyway) and even if it doesn't get back to 90s levels of popularity, I do still think there's enough people down there to sustain some sort of network. 

Taxi drivers are like bees to a honeypot. They go where the demand is.
If there's taxis, there's potential bus passengers.

We've seen soft improvements (fares and on-board features).
Let's see some hard improvements to the network.

(09 Jun 2021, 9:14 am)Andreos1 wrote I think that's part of the bigger problem and something operators need to address.
I've mentioned the 194 missing out a section of route in Fatfield at chucking out time and I'm sure the 27 was the same along Kells Lane/Dryden Road at one point.
It was as though operators didn't want to have to deal with passengers and discouraged people using them back from the pub.
Surely counterproductive?

As it stood until very recently, we all know it was often cheaper getting a taxi back from the pub. Especially if there's a group of friends out.
The evening deal last year and now the £1 fare are both cracking initiatives and along with a flexible, attractive network it may go a long way in repairing some legacies of decisions made in the past.

The Quayside seems to be having a bit of a renaissance (from what I've witnessed anyway) and even if it doesn't get back to 90s levels of popularity, I do still think there's enough people down there to sustain some sort of network. 

Taxi drivers are like bees to a honeypot. They go where the demand is.
If there's taxis, there's potential bus passengers.

We've seen soft improvements (fares and on-board features).
Let's see some hard improvements to the network.

Personally I think the difference is people's drinking habits. Over the last few decades we've got from drinking in the early evening to 11pm so buses we're still running so they were an option. Nowadays there's a large chunk of people who'd rather drink in there house and won't hit the clubs until 10pm'ish and stay out until 3am so there's no option to use the bus if they even wanted to. I can't see it ever changing personally as there'll never be demand for a full network at 2/3am in the morning for a few punters especially in town.

The evening fare is a great idea but I'm not sure it's targeted at the target market who go down the Quayside and will be more for your mature audience who stick to local pubs and possibly the likes of Grey Street who aren't there to get mortal lets say.

You'd be better off having later journeys on the Q3 rather than running the Q1/Q2 imo.

(09 Jun 2021, 9:14 am)Andreos1 wrote I think that's part of the bigger problem and something operators need to address.
I've mentioned the 194 missing out a section of route in Fatfield at chucking out time and I'm sure the 27 was the same along Kells Lane/Dryden Road at one point.
It was as though operators didn't want to have to deal with passengers and discouraged people using them back from the pub.

Bloody hell, it's been a long time since the 194!

Going back to when i was a lad it used to be 45p adult from where i lived to Newcastle. Its now £3.20. that a increase if my maths is correct of around 890%. Around the same period we once got a taxi to town to get to hospital urgently and i think it cost 6 quid ( compared to 45p on the bus). Now it around 12-14 quid in a taxi compared to 3.20. You dont need a genius to work out why people use taxi's instead of the bus!

(09 Jun 2021, 9:36 am)Storx wrote Personally I think the difference is people's drinking habits. Over the last few decades we've got from drinking in the early evening to 11pm so buses we're still running so they were an option. Nowadays there's a large chunk of people who'd rather drink in there house and won't hit the clubs until 10pm'ish and stay out until 3am so there's no option to use the bus if they even wanted to. I can't see it ever changing personally as there'll never be demand for a full network at 2/3am in the morning for a few punters especially in town.

The evening fare is a great idea but I'm not sure it's targeted at the target market who go down the Quayside and will be more for your mature audience who stick to local pubs and possibly the likes of Grey Street who aren't there to get mortal lets say.

You'd be better off having later journeys on the Q3 rather than running the Q1/Q2 imo.

See, I know others who are going out earlier and coming back earlier.
You've got BTRBC under the Tyne Bridge plus the Baltic, Sage and the hotels along there too. Hard Rock has just opened. 
It's not all the Livello or Aveika crowd.

For all the Q3 does a job, it's not very attractive for those on the Quayside who are needing to head south or connect with something at Gateshead.
Adrian mentioned the 56 a week or two back, there's the 53/54 which could easily be sent down there on an evening or even a 21.
Very little outlay or expenditure to do so, but there is the potential for an increase in revenue and custom.

As an example, it's often easier me climbing up to Shields Road or New Bridge St and getting the first bus in to the town (before coming back out again) if I'm down the Ouseburn.
A reliable connection between the Q3 and something south at the bottom of Dean Street could be a lot easier (and cheaper) for me and many others.

(09 Jun 2021, 9:44 am)JP6004 wrote Bloody hell, it's been a long time since the 194!

Isn't it just. Yet the legacy and habits created back then, still last now.
I remember the last 194 from Heworth that left at 23.15 and terminated at Newbottle was always heaving on a weekend.
It would pick up and drop off at various points, but always (like 2 or 3 other runs prior) miss out Fatfield and chucking out time there.

Some people are stuck in their habits and even if we have a few quiet ones in the club, the idea that the 4 runs down there near chucking out time still surprises some. They still remember the void 25/30 years ago.
Mind, they're probably the same folks that would call the 49, the 649!

(09 Jun 2021, 10:49 am)Andreos1 wrote See, I know others who are going out earlier and coming back earlier.
You've got BTRBC under the Tyne Bridge plus the Baltic, Sage and the hotels along there too. Hard Rock has just opened. 
It's not all the Livello or Aveika crowd.

For all the Q3 does a job, it's not very attractive for those on the Quayside who are needing to head south or connect with something at Gateshead.
Adrian mentioned the 56 a week or two back, there's the 53/54 which could easily be sent down there on an evening or even a 21.
Very little outlay or expenditure to do so, but there is the potential for an increase in revenue and custom.

As an example, it's often easier me climbing up to Shields Road or New Bridge St and getting the first bus in to the town (before coming back out again) if I'm down the Ouseburn.
A reliable connection between the Q3 and something south at the bottom of Dean Street could be a lot easier (and cheaper) for me and many others.


Isn't it just. Yet the legacy and habits created back then, still last now.
I remember the last 194 from Heworth that left at 23.15 and terminated at Newbottle was always heaving on a weekend.
It would pick up and drop off at various points, but always (like 2 or 3 other runs prior) miss out Fatfield and chucking out time there.

Some people are stuck in there habits and even if we have a few quiet ones in the club, the idea that the 4 runs down there near chucking out time still surprises some. They still remember the void 25/30 years ago.
Mind, they're probably the same folks that would call the 49, the 649!

I keep hearing all these 3 digit route numbers mentioned on here, is there a reason they were phased out?

(09 Jun 2021, 11:52 am)streetdeckfan wrote I keep hearing all these 3 digit route numbers mentioned on here, is there a reason they were phased out?

It was supposed to make things simpler for passengers - but nothing other than ideology imo.

631 632 633 648 648 all used by me as a child in the 80's when off to my grandparents every Saturday

(09 Jun 2021, 12:14 pm)Rob44 wrote 631 632 633 648 648 all used by me as a child in the 80's when off to my grandparents every Saturday

So did the first number signify that the bus route was in a certain area?