(07 Sep 2019, 7:28 am)Rob44 wrote

I've mentioned this before, what if she starts at 530am on some days - no matter how you calculate that i'd like to see her use the bus for that journey..... and maybe once or twice a week they'ed rather go further afield than tyne and wear?

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I'd be very carefull about doing this. My mate work in M&S at metro centre and there have been tickets placed on cars when cameras have seen people parking then going for the bus/train.  It does say on the signage that you cannot use the carpark to park and ride.

I get that you also have to take into account the convenience factor. However I was just going off the point that she made about the bus being more expensive than the car. On the surface it may be, but once you start looking at the whole picture it might not necessarily be.

My mother for instance could save a lot of money travelling by bus, but she finishes work at 2am so it's impossible for her to use public transport.

(06 Sep 2019, 5:59 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

But the thing is if she is using the bus to commute to work every day, there is no way she would be buying a return ticket every day. It would be more cost effective to buy a weekly ticket as Martijn said. Then again, assuming a clean run, it'd probably cost her about £1.20 in petrol/diesel for her return journey, there is no way a bus could compete with that... or could it?

What people fail to take into account is by the time you add in all the extra expenses of running a car like buying/leasing the car, maintenance, insurance, the car does actually become quite expensive.

If for example we lease a base Vauxhall Corsa with maintenance included, that's probably going to cost around £160 a month, plus insurance that's taking it to about £200 a month just to have the car.

Then the price of the fuel for her journey on top of that would take it to about £225 a month.

If we then look at the price of a 2 Zone Network One pass, which is what she would need, that is only £86.50 for a 4 week ticket.

Less than half the cost per month for her journey, and that's assuming she only uses her car for commuting.

With a car, the more you travel, the more fuel you use, so the more it costs. With a bus pass, you can use it as much as you like and it costs the same

Appreciate we are going off topic slightly, but isn't time - money too?

Depending where she lives in Wallsend (regardless of the start times she could have), we are talking 2 or 3 buses and potentially a metro.

(06 Sep 2019, 6:31 pm)Arcticrossy92 wrote

The City Centre is a bit of a mess, you can argue its down to cuts, the council, lack of investment, Brexit, but the fact of the matter is over the past 10 years the City has seen a lot of changes to road layouts, a lot of businesses leave, and vain attempts at small investment in certain places.

The Road changes across the city have created more problems, than solved. John Dobson street is a complete joke, the high level bridge junction has been made worse! Somehow?

 A bridge should of been put in years ago between the tunnels and the main bridges across the tyne. This would of been a step in the right direction of keeping traffic away from the city & the coast road.

A Park & Ride system should of been set up to prevent cars entering the city, the council just can't be arsed to do anything that involves invoice management or any admin, which can be seen in the overall cleanliness of the City.

Closing Blackett street on a weekend, as much as I can see what is trying to be done, looks awful. The place looks like a chav ridden haven with tacky fairground rides and cheap furniture. It does not scream of a City Centre Location, and if I was a tourist to the city would be slightly confused as to what the hell was going on.

There are plenty things that can be done, that can generate money as well as solving the problem. Charging for buses/taxis etc is just a quick cash grab & solves nothing. If they do strip the tyne bridge down to one lane each way, they are essentially creating more standstill pollution, the mind boggles.

I was chatting with Mrs Constantopolous a few weeks back about using the river more.

Without trying to fall in to the trap of bringing London in to the equation, the river is used quite well down there.

A network of river boats travelling between key points surely will have some impact?

(06 Sep 2019, 9:28 pm)Storx wrote

There's already 4 park and rides to the north of Newcastle and they are carry fresh air most the day (Regent Centre / Great Park / Four Lane Ends / Northumberland Park) you can't blame Newcastle City Council for that and they can be blamed for a lot of things.

There's a common theme around here lately and a few people have basically done it on here where everyone seems to assume that everyone is going to/from Newcastle and that's your problem. They aren't.

The fact the traffic jams at rush runs from the Coast Road / Gosforth / Cowgate towards the Tyne Bridge suggest this isn't where people are coming from/going too. Infact most people are more likely travelling from Quorum / Cobalt / Regent Centre / The Ministry to Gateshead and beyond try doing those routes using buses especially Quorum / Cobalt and then you'll see why people aren't using them.

https://road.cc/content/news/175356-map-...ghbourhood (Click link on there can't post direct link) - The focus should be on the areas on the map which are orange / red but they're not. The bus services on the coast particular are shockingly bad in areas and you have no choice to use a car. North Whitley Bay / Marsden in particular similar story in most of washington people can't be bothered to use the local buses to connect to another bus to get to places and it's no surprise they're your high car areas.

You can put as many bike lanes through Gateshead / Gosforth but if they don't go where people want then what's the point and no-one is going to be biking from Whitley Bay / South Gateshead. Surely the point should be to put the bike lanes towards a metro station / bus station with some form of secure bike rack in place where you can change to go to your work.

I get the point you're making about the traffic jams and agree that something needs doing in those areas.

However the council themselves state that within the city centre, there are 4 areas that fall foul of emissions targets and that is where they have installed facilities to monitor emissions.

Monitoring station locations:

• St. Mary’s Place (Automatic Urban Network monitors PM2.5, PM10, NO2, benzene and polyarormatic hydrocarbons (e.g. flourene and pyrene)

• Percy Street (monitors NO2)

• Jesmond Road (monitors NO2 and PM10)

• Pilgrim Street, off Swan House roundabout (monitors NO2)

More than happy for someone to point out if I'm in the wrong, but aren't each of those locations key sections of our bus network?

I'm not saying buses are the root of the problem, but if cars arent the dominant mode of transport in the majority of those areas, then why should car drivers be penalised elsewhere - such as the Tyne Bridge?

(06 Sep 2019, 5:59 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

But the thing is if she is using the bus to commute to work every day, there is no way she would be buying a return ticket every day. It would be more cost effective to buy a weekly ticket as Martijn said. Then again, assuming a clean run, it'd probably cost her about £1.20 in petrol/diesel for her return journey, there is no way a bus could compete with that... or could it?

What people fail to take into account is by the time you add in all the extra expenses of running a car like buying/leasing the car, maintenance, insurance, the car does actually become quite expensive.

If for example we lease a base Vauxhall Corsa with maintenance included, that's probably going to cost around £160 a month, plus insurance that's taking it to about £200 a month just to have the car.

Then the price of the fuel for her journey on top of that would take it to about £225 a month.

If we then look at the price of a 2 Zone Network One pass, which is what she would need, that is only £86.50 for a 4 week ticket.

Less than half the cost per month for her journey, and that's assuming she only uses her car for commuting.

With a car, the more you travel, the more fuel you use, so the more it costs. With a bus pass, you can use it as much as you like and it costs the same

I would look at it the opposite way.  Yes, your fuel is a variable cost.  But the more you use your car, the more your sunk cost is recovered.

Hearing that the CAZ scheme has been postponed by Defra.
All schemes have been delayed until next year at the earliest - even the ones due to start this year, such as Leeds and Birmingham.

(08 Apr 2020, 1:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote Hearing that the CAZ scheme has been postponed by Defra.
All schemes have been delayed until next year at the earliest - even the ones due to start this year, such as Leeds and Birmingham.

Makes sense. The problem's probably temporarily resolved with the lack of traffic, anyhow. I know that Framwellgate Peth, which is usually one of the most polluted streets in the NE, has never smelled so sweet.

Major doubts over Newcastle Clean Air Zone as leaders warn cash offer falls 'significantly' short

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-18064280

Cycled across Tyne Bridge today to Gosforth. Cycle infrastructure is great now! Only slight thing is sensors could do with some improvement on cycle lights.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...h-18681528

Warning of ‘absolute chaos’ on roads amid battle over plans to shut Newcastle rat run bridges


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(30 Jul 2020, 7:19 pm)TEN 6083 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...h-18681528

Warning of ‘absolute chaos’ on roads amid battle over plans to shut Newcastle rat run bridges


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‘Absolute chaos’ = slight inconvenience for some, but beneficial for many.

Anyway, these plans don’t affect buses though as far as I can tell. Unless I’m missing something, TEN6083?

(30 Jul 2020, 7:47 pm)ne14ne1 wrote ‘Absolute chaos’ = slight inconvenience for some, but beneficial for many.

Anyway, these plans don’t affect buses though as far as I can tell. Unless I’m missing something, TEN6083?

Not familiar with that area so wasn’t sure if buses use it


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(30 Jul 2020, 7:19 pm)TEN 6083 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...h-18681528

Warning of ‘absolute chaos’ on roads amid battle over plans to shut Newcastle rat run bridges


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This is blatently so they don't have to maintain them as much to save money. It's no-coincidence that it's all bridges.

Haldane and Stoneyhurst aren't rat runs and there's no houses anywhere near Argyle Street and Castle Road Farm so it's nonsense blaming residents.

Have there been any updates recently on when the Newcastle Clean Air Zone could be introduced?

(10 Jan 2021, 11:43 am)Metroline1511 wrote Have there been any updates recently on when the Newcastle Clean Air Zone could be introduced?

No, still postponed for the foreseeable future.


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(10 Jan 2021, 11:57 am)Dan wrote No, still postponed for the foreseeable future.


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Hopefully with the evidence that buses aren't the problem, and the fact without all the cars the air was suddenly very clean, they may reconsider charging buses and not cars...

Yeah, that won't happen!

but they are only charging the really polluting buses aren't they? You want to charge all cars even fully electric or part electric ones?

(10 Jan 2021, 2:37 pm)Rob44 wrote but they are only charging the really polluting buses aren't they?  You want to charge all cars even fully electric or part electric ones?

I wouldn't say Euro 5 buses are 'really polluting', especially per passenger, yet they're going to be charged to enter.

I'd apply exactly the same criteria to cars as they are to buses.
With the current proposals, 50 people could drive into Newcastle in 25 year old diesel and they aren't bothered, but if those same 50 people get on an 8 year old Euro 5 bus suddenly the world is ending and they need to pay £50 to enter.

Just doesn't make any sense to me!

(10 Jan 2021, 11:57 am)Dan wrote No, still postponed for the foreseeable future.


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Thank you for letting me know.  If it's unlikely to be taking place before late summer I would probably come before then.  I want to time my visit carefully to avoid any blockade on the Metro and not to narrowly miss out any changes resulting from the CAZ.  Unlikely before May at the earliest.

(10 Jan 2021, 3:29 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I wouldn't say Euro 5 buses are 'really polluting', especially per passenger, yet they're going to be charged to enter.

I'd apply exactly the same criteria to cars as they are to buses.
With the current proposals, 50 people could drive into Newcastle in 25 year old diesel and they aren't bothered, but if those same 50 people get on an 8 year old Euro 5 bus suddenly the world is ending and they need to pay £50 to enter.

Just doesn't make any sense to me!

You need to build a suitable bypass around Newcastle before you can do stuff like that. It's all good charging people, 'going into Newcastle'. The problem is they aren't. They're doing journeys such as Byker to Team Valley or Felling to Killingworth. Without something built like the Friars Goose Crossing, there's no alternative for these people and the charges would be unfair. You just need to travel along the Coast Road or Central Motorway now there is still a fair chuck of traffic yet Newcastle is a ghost town.

(10 Jan 2021, 5:38 pm)Storx wrote You need to build a suitable bypass around Newcastle before you can do stuff like that. It's all good charging people, 'going into Newcastle'. The problem is they aren't. They're doing journeys such as Byker to Team Valley or Felling to Killingworth. Without something built like the Friars Goose Crossing, there's no alternative for these people and the charges would be unfair. You just need to travel along the Coast Road or Central Motorway now there is still a fair chuck of traffic yet Newcastle is a ghost town.

But equally charging buses that aren't Euro 6 to enter Newcastle isn't going to do anything either!
If the problem is the sheer volume of people travelling through, then they need to solve that

(10 Jan 2021, 5:47 pm)streetdeckfan wrote But equally charging buses that aren't Euro 6 to enter Newcastle isn't going to do anything either!
If the problem is the sheer volume of people travelling through, then they need to solve that

Yeah agreed really but then again is there much left that isn't Euro 6 now anyway. Believe pretty much everything at GNE and Arriva is done now bar a the odd route or 2. Not a clue with Stagecoach though. If it's the kick up the arse to do something for the bus companies I'm not complaining it's better for everyone.

just seen on FB the worsick streets old bus station has eventually come down. Anyone know what's going up in its place or has it just ben taken down for some other reason like safty?

(16 Jan 2021, 12:12 pm)Rob44 wrote just seen on FB the worsick streets old bus station has eventually come down. Anyone know what's going up in its place or has it just ben taken down for some other reason like safty?

A shame it's gone and a shame it stood empty for so long.
I didn't use it much pre-86, as like most, I made the switch to the Metro with the bus feeding in to the metro at Gateshead.
Post-86 and the extension of buses over the river, meant I used it more often.

There was always something about it that I liked.
Whether it was the danger aspect, the fact H&S had obviously missed it when doing their rounds or something else.
The left hand turn in off Market Street, the dip in the road as it entered Worswick Street and the ramp up in to the bus station...

Then straight out and back over the bridge and no faffing about with traffic lights across the town. 
The time and resource saved compared to now and the 15mins in/15mins out it takes must be massive.

A shame.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...r-22033508

An interesting one. 
Whilst I agree with the idea in principle, in reality it's going to have a negative effect on the city. 
Relying on public transport to get home at the end of the night - that doesn't exist for a huge part of the region or is slow, awkward, cumbersome, involves changes and doesn't allow for much shopping bag space - isn't going to be attractive to the majority of those people who choose to drive/park in the city centre on an evening.

Forcing people out of their cars isn't the way forward imo.

(03 Nov 2021, 10:27 am)Andreos1 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...r-22033508

An interesting one. 
Whilst I agree with the idea in principle, in reality it's going to have a negative effect on the city. 
Relying on public transport to get home at the end of the night - that doesn't exist for a huge part of the region or is slow, awkward, cumbersome, involves changes and doesn't allow for much shopping bag space - isn't going to be attractive to the majority of those people who choose to drive/park in the city centre on an evening.

Forcing people out of their cars isn't the way forward imo.

It's a terrible idea. The council are naive to believe people will change to public transport. All that'll happen is people will go to the Metro Centre, Morpeth, Silverlink, Boldon, Cramlington and so on instead where there's still free parking. They seem to forget that cars don't have to go into Newcastle and people driving in are very unlikely drinking anyway so the options are all over the place. There's plenty of nice restaurants and entertainment ie. cinemas throughout the region without touching Newcastle (most which are cheaper anyway).

(03 Nov 2021, 10:32 am)Storx wrote It's a terrible idea. The council are naive to believe people will change to public transport. All that'll happen is people will go to the Metro Centre, Morpeth, Silverlink, Boldon, Cramlington and so on instead where there's still free parking. They seem to forget that cars don't have to go into Newcastle and people driving in are very unlikely drinking anyway so the options are all over the place. There's plenty of nice restaurants and entertainment ie. cinemas throughout the region without touching Newcastle (most which are cheaper anyway).

Assuming those people parking after 5 are actually leisure customers and not people working in the night time economy.
It almost defeats the point of a low waged worker, going to work. Bearing in mind a chunk of their hourly wage will be spent on parking now. 

Then there's this:
https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2021-...ce=NewsApp&utm_medium=SocialShare



'weak public transport costing economy'. Yet they're wanting to get rid of free parking


There's also a quote from a bloke who lives in Crawcrook and relies on lifts to get to work 7 miles down the road.

(03 Nov 2021, 8:19 pm)Andreos1 wrote Assuming those people parking after 5 are actually leisure customers and not people working in the night time economy.
It almost defeats the point of a low waged worker, going to work. Bearing in mind a chunk of their hourly wage will be spent on parking now. 

Then there's this:
https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2021-...ce=NewsApp&utm_medium=SocialShare



'weak public transport costing economy'. Yet they're wanting to get rid of free parking


There's also a quote from a bloke who lives in Crawcrook and relies on lifts to get to work 7 miles down the road.

Yeah that's fair point but don't they all shut at 10pm/11pm so wouldn't be much use for people working late anyway. Think only Grainger Town is open 24/7 (or it used to be, that might have changed aswell now).

I think it's counter productive it was proven that the free parking improved the economy massively now all of the sudden removing it is going to improve the economy aswell. Something doesn't add up.

Can't argue about the poor public transport though tbh.

If the city has been told it needs to address it’s illegal levels of pollution as quickly as possible, and therefore encourage sustainable travel options, it would be ridiculous to meanwhile continue offer free parking which acts as a magnet drawing cars into the city centre.

Metro offering free parking at their Park & Ride sites is a good move to help regain patronage.

Many people can’t afford cars and Newcastle has a lower than average car ownership. It’s rather unfair free parking has been offered for so long but not free (or at least cheaper) public transport.

https://twitter.com/newcastlecc/status/1...00134?s=21

(04 Nov 2021, 1:26 pm)ne14ne1 wrote If the city has been told it needs to address it’s illegal levels of pollution as quickly as possible, and therefore encourage sustainable travel options, it would be ridiculous to meanwhile continue offer free parking which acts as a magnet drawing cars into the city centre.

Metro offering free parking at their Park & Ride sites is a good move to help regain patronage.

Many people can’t afford cars and Newcastle has a lower than average car ownership. It’s rather unfair free parking has been offered for so long but not free (or at least cheaper) public transport.

https://twitter.com/newcastlecc/status/1...00134?s=21

 I agree with all of the points you have made - but it doesn't alter the fact that we have public transport system which doesn't offer a viable alternative to parking the car for quite a large portion of the population.

Until there is some sort of joined up thinking, network development and whatever else - people are going to go where it is free (pollution problem solved for NCC) or continue parking in the city centre (pollution problem not solved but revenues are huge).

(04 Nov 2021, 6:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote  I agree with all of the points you have made - but it doesn't alter the fact that we have public transport system which doesn't offer a viable alternative to parking the car for quite a large portion of the population.

Until there is some sort of joined up thinking, network development and whatever else - people are going to go where it is free (pollution problem solved for NCC) or continue parking in the city centre (pollution problem not solved but revenues are huge).

Joined up thinking is something that is impossible in transport. Even individual bus companies cant timetable busses to connect .

(04 Nov 2021, 6:47 pm)54APhotography wrote Joined up thinking is something that is impossible in transport.  Even individual bus companies cant timetable busses to connect .

I don't think it's impossible.
Granted that's often in short supply within operators, but I reckon thet could muster up some joined up thinking if they really wanted to.