(20 Dec 2021, 7:21 pm)Jimmi wrote Similar issues have fallen on the X85 except with that one they've tried to go against the train by making it faster and running it into the evening but at the expense of omitting Heddon & Horsley which resulted into the passengers being left with the longer journey on the X84 into Hexham or the 685 and whilst there may be three buses an hour between Hexham and Newcastle (excluding 10 & 74) they leave Hexham Bus Station within the space of 6 minutes during off peak hours (X85: 39 mins past, 685: 44 mins past, X84: 45 mins past) what use is that?! It's actually the thing that's stopped me going to Hexham as there's times I've thought about doing some of the other runs around Hexham but put off when I find I have something like 40 minutes to wait for a bus because all three leave at virtually the same time.

This is the same for me, even if I could quickly get off the X84, and jump onto the X85 I would miss the X85, and I would have to wait a hour and it was just a pain. Its not like there is a McDonalds or KFC near by. And for your comment about eldon square I have heard people ask what buses to go to Middlesborough the nexus person says X12.

Can't see the X85 doing Blaydon and Metrocentre because the 10 already does, but it would allow direct travel from Denton Burn/Fenham to Blaydon/Metrocentre without going into town, as well as being a quick, direct route to Hexham. I hope the X84 survives for Heddon & Throckley and wherever else. Serving Central Station could be useful.

Would it be possible to run the X85 through Ponteland and Kingston Park into town instead of Denton Burn/Fenham/Benwell or would that add too much time on? 74A used to do Ponteland & Kingston Park between Hexham and Newcastle.

To be honest, going back to deckers for the X10 (X9) maybe a good move, since they are quicker at unloading and loading passengers, and more likely the pensioners may return to using the service since they don't have an awkward staircase to climb to access a dark dingy seating area. Plus the deckers will be more brighter and airy inside.

(20 Dec 2021, 8:47 pm)Rapidsnap wrote To be honest, going back to deckers for the X10 (X9) maybe a good move, since they are quicker at unloading and loading passengers, and more likely the pensioners may return to using the service since they don't have an awkward staircase to climb to access a dark dingy seating area. Plus the deckers will be more brighter and airy inside.

And the awkward senario when you don't think anyone is at the front, so you walk to the front and there is someone there...

(20 Dec 2021, 12:12 pm)Storx wrote Train: 1 hour 20 mins
Bus: 1 hour 45 mins

There's quite a big difference between Middlesbrough and Newcastle and a train will very likely take 1 hour 20 mins, a bus on the otherhand is linked to other traffic so could take much much longer and on such a long route it's not rare.

Neither have connections either. There's nothing at all in Middlesbrough and there's very little North of Newcastle either. Durham / Sunderland passengers won't be travelling via the X10 and would use the X12 or train instead. Passengers in Peterlee are more likely to have Arriva day tickets aswell since they offer more services and could use the X22 especially if they live on the route, the time it takes to change will knock off the 20 minutes in time difference.

I don't care what anyone says on here the worst train (excluding buses on rails) is better than the best conventional bus. There's more space, there's toilets, there's tables, the ride is better generally, they rarely break down, there's rarely traffic issues.

I'd take a Class 156 or Class 158 anyday over any Alexander Dennis or Wright bus with as many fancy mod cons they can attempt to squeeze on even if it cost 40% more and most of the GP will agree. As soon as the Newcastle to Middlesbrough eventually go every 30 minutes, then it's incomparable.

It's not a co-incidence the two routes competing against trains are struggling.

The route the trains take between Heworth/Pelaw - Sunderland etc... is already at max capacity due to the line being used for frieght, metro, Northern, LNER, Grand Central trains. The only way to be able to do this 30 min freq would be revamp the Leamside Line as Frieght would be diverted down there and metro is eager to expand  (preCOVID) once the current 'Metro Flow' project is completed by end of next year. In time for new trains. Which will allow 10 min freq of both yellow and green lines, 5 min comb.

It's a shame to see the X9 X10 not recovering. Can remember when the B5s were on, quite a few times taking one of the last couple of seats on the peak afternoons back to Middlesbrough. Im not a fan of coaches so maybe a bit biased but parking up round the corner like many have said just doesn't make sense. Enviros would be good and maybe should've been considered first time round. Would be a shame to lose the half hourly frequency as so much work was done on marketing it (and it worked). It seems to just be forgotten about the last 18 months or so.

On a side note, will X21 ever go back to every 15 mins? I guess the PVR is gone for that too.

Before anyone says, I completely understand the financial side, but can't understanding not giving chance to a once highly profitable route when Covid is still very much in the present.

Why not bring back a service between Middlesbrough & Sunderland via Peterlee, and make it the X8 or something.

(21 Dec 2021, 1:07 am)busesofthenortheast wrote Why not bring back a service between Middlesbrough & Sunderland via Peterlee, and make it the X8 or something.

Really you could send the X9 via Durham

(21 Dec 2021, 1:14 am)Keeiajs wrote Really you could send the X9 via Durham

Why? You've got the X21 and 21 running down there which are frequent. X21 is pretty much the quickest you're going to get so if you ran the X9 the same way you're just increasing the frequency with no guarantees of enough passengers to make both services cost effective. Then to run the X9 onto Peterlee, you'd probably have to send it along the A181 to Wingate and then back up the A19 to Peterlee to head back down to Boro. The alternative is sending it along B roads through villages already served by either Arriva (who probably won't take the competition too kindly) or GNE.

I like the idea of sending the X9 via Sunderland down to Boro, but again, the demand has never really seemed to be there. Anyone going from Sunderland to Newcastle (centre to centre) will almost always choose the Metro. You'd probably pick up a few in the Boldons, but the 9 serves the same route towards Sunderland and the X34 is never more than a 5/10m walk away to get to Newcastle. The demand may be better from Sunderland down, but I never noticed the Sunderland to Peterlee express loads so wouldn't like to comment.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

(21 Dec 2021, 2:30 am)6049 wrote Why? You've got the X21 and 21 running down there which are frequent. X21 is pretty much the quickest you're going to get so if you ran the X9 the same way you're just increasing the frequency with no guarantees of enough passengers to make both services cost effective. Then to run the X9 onto Peterlee, you'd probably have to send it along the A181 to Wingate and then back up the A19 to Peterlee to head back down to Boro. The alternative is sending it along B roads through villages already served by either Arriva (who probably won't take the competition too kindly) or GNE.

I like the idea of sending the X9 via Sunderland down to Boro, but again, the demand has never really seemed to be there. Anyone going from Sunderland to Newcastle (centre to centre) will almost always choose the Metro. You'd probably pick up a few in the Boldons, but the 9 serves the same route towards Sunderland and the X34 is never more than a 5/10m walk away to get to Newcastle. The demand may be better from Sunderland down, but I never noticed the Sunderland to Peterlee express loads so wouldn't like to comment.

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Realistically for the Durham route you could send it to leave Durham straight down the A1 till just past Team Valley, the A184 then to Gateshead Straight into Newcastle. 

Then you could have one that goes to Middlesbroguh, Dalton Park, then Seaham, A19, A690, Sunderland, Heworth, Gateshead, Newcastle.

(20 Dec 2021, 7:01 pm)Storx wrote Admit this is dragging the thread off topic a bit but the 42A should terminate at Killingworth.

Then there should be a new service running the 57 from Ashington to Cramlington, direct to Dudley, then the remaining of the 42A route.

The 54 should then be downgraded to Solo's permanently (it's ran by them on a Sunday now anyway) and interwork with the 57A which would run every 30 minutes (no 57 as it's not needed south of Cramlington, the 19 does it).

Would reintroduce a bus service from SE Northumberland to the airport and there's no need for the 19/57 both doing Wansbeck through Seaton Valley to North Tyneside it's overkill and Seaton Valley would get a link to North Tyneside hospital on a connecting bus.

Doesn't help your GNE buses but the 42A is totally out of zone and really needs to be an Arriva or Stagecoach service (it's contracted North of Killingworth).

You know alot more than me but i thought it was only secured from dinington to the airport? GNE only wanted to run it to diniington from sheilds at the time?

(21 Dec 2021, 2:59 am)Keeiajs wrote Realistically for the Durham route you could send it to leave Durham straight down the A1 till just past Team Valley, the A184 then to Gateshead Straight into Newcastle. 

Then you could have one that goes to Middlesbroguh, Dalton Park, then Seaham, A19, A690, Sunderland, Heworth, Gateshead, Newcastle.

You don't really want to send anything down the A1 over the next 4 years - congestion is horrific

(21 Dec 2021, 11:44 am)Ambassador wrote You don't really want to send anything down the A1 over the next 4 years - congestion is horrific

Maybe that is why you need a bus service.

(21 Dec 2021, 11:12 am)Rob44 wrote You know alot more than me but i thought it was only secured from dinington to the airport? GNE only wanted to run it to diniington from sheilds at the time?

Ah I could be wrong there I always thought it was from Killingworth. It might be to Dinnington though, I just assumed Killingworth as it replaced the old 3 and 101 before that from Blyth.

(21 Dec 2021, 12:12 pm)Storx wrote Ah I could be wrong there I always thought it was from Killingworth. It might be to Dinnington though, I just assumed Killingworth as it replaced the old 3 and 101 before that from Blyth.

Would it be possible for an admin to move the topic of the 42A into its own thread

On a note, on GNE website both Route Map, and PDF have been removed, with all mention of the X9 gone.

(21 Dec 2021, 2:11 pm)Keeiajs wrote On a note, on GNE website both Route Map, and PDF have been removed, with all mention of the X9 gone.

I just wish GNE would confirm its staying withdrawn. Stagecoach are the same with the 100. Just say it's staying withdrawn. We all know this now

(21 Dec 2021, 3:58 pm)Train8261 wrote I just wish GNE would confirm its staying withdrawn. Stagecoach are the same with the 100. Just say it's staying withdrawn. We all know this now

Tbh, I am very surprised Dan has been quite silent on this.

What is the history of the x10 route over the years?

(21 Dec 2021, 5:24 pm)idiot wrote What is the history of the x10 route over the years?

It got the G1's, then a mix of them and coaches + Some Volvo Olympians used as spares, got some 12' G2's, Then the now X21's, and now back to coaches then E400 MMC.

(21 Dec 2021, 3:58 pm)Train8261 wrote I just wish GNE would confirm its staying withdrawn. Stagecoach are the same with the 100. Just say it's staying withdrawn. We all know this now

In both cases, why would they? 

For the X9, there are multiple reasons why it *could* have been suspended aside from the passenger numbers not picking up (driver shortage, reliability). Ultimately it's of benefit to nobody at this time to say it's withdrawn forever, but would arguably cause more confusion saying it's gone forever then suddenly reinstating it in April (for example) if the X10 picks up. I'm not saying that's likely, I have no way of knowing what the numbers were like, but from a business POV it makes more sense to keep options open at a time where people understand why routes might not be running - see Arriva with taking their time to fully withdraw the X16 as a similar example.

For the 100 - wasn't this temporarily withdrawn due to driver shortages? Again, this should be something that can be rectified and it's not as if folk aren't going to the MetroCentre.

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(21 Dec 2021, 4:02 pm)Keeiajs wrote Tbh, I am very surprised Dan has been quite silent on this.

I mean, I doubt he's going to come on here and spill what is likely sensitive commercial information weeks/months ahead of when any final decision on the route would be made?

(21 Dec 2021, 6:45 pm)mb134 wrote In both cases, why would they? 

For the X9, there are multiple reasons why it *could* have been suspended aside from the passenger numbers not picking up (driver shortage, reliability). Ultimately it's of benefit to nobody at this time to say it's withdrawn forever, but would arguably cause more confusion saying it's gone forever then suddenly reinstating it in April (for example) if the X10 picks up. I'm not saying that's likely, I have no way of knowing what the numbers were like, but from a business POV it makes more sense to keep options open at a time where people understand why routes might not be running - see Arriva with taking their time to fully withdraw the X16 as a similar example.

For the 100 - wasn't this temporarily withdrawn due to driver shortages? Again, this should be something that can be rectified and it's not as if folk aren't going to the MetroCentre.

---

I mean, I doubt he's going to come on here and spill what is likely sensitive commercial information weeks/months ahead of when any final decision on the route would be made?

The 100 was withdrawn way back in July and hasn't been reintroduced not even for Boxing day 
We already know from this thread the X9 is being withdrawn and the X10 is becoming it full time with the 4 E400MMC going onto the X10

(21 Dec 2021, 7:04 pm)Train8261 wrote The 100 was withdrawn way back in July and hasn't been reintroduced not even for Boxing day 
We already know from this thread the X9 is being withdrawn and the X10 is becoming it full time with the 4 E400MMC going onto the X10

So you ask why GNE haven't confirmed it yet, then when possible reasons are given as to why, you reply with this?? Bizarre.

(21 Dec 2021, 6:11 pm)Keeiajs wrote It got the G1's, then a mix of them and coaches + Some Volvo Olympians used as spares, got some 12' G2's, Then the now X21's, and now back to coaches then E400 MMC.

Sorry I meant the route it self.

(21 Dec 2021, 7:04 pm)Train8261 wrote The 100 was withdrawn way back in July and hasn't been reintroduced not even for Boxing day 
We already know from this thread the X9 is being withdrawn and the X10 is becoming it full time with the 4 E400MMC going onto the X10

This feed isn't Gospel

X10 allocations from when GNE took full responibility of the route....
Leyland National Mk2, MCW Metrobus Mk2 or Leyland Olympian / ECW - usually vehicles that were DP seated, though bus seated Cummins L10 engined Leyland Olympians did appear.
DAF DB250 - Optare Spectra - spare vehicles were normally DP ECW bodied Leyland Olympians.
Volvo Olympian - N-C Palatine 2 (3828-3831) - spare vehicles were normally the N-C Palatine 1 bodied Volvo Olympians (3940 being one), though MCW Metrobus Mk2 (bus seated versions, much speed down the A19.... not) and Scania L94UB - Wright Solars or Volvo B10BLE - Wright Renowns appeared.
Volvo B7TL - Wright Eclipse Gemini 1 (3941-3943) - with Volvo Olympian - N-C Palatine 2 spare. Single deck subs were Renowns or Solars.

X9 was introduced adding Volvo B10M - Plaxton coaches (1x Expressliner and 2x Paragons), spare vehicles were often Volvo Olympian / N-C Palatine 2

Coaches were found unsuitable due to extended loading times and accessibility so the allocation for X9 / X10 was streamlined into one vehicle type starting with....
Volvo B7TL - Wright Eclipse Gemini 1 (3941-3943 / 3962 - 3965) with Volvo Olympian - N-C Palatine 2s being the ever reliable spares.
Volvo B9TL - Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (6043 - 6048) spare was B7TL 3963 in Tyne Tees Express livery and 3964 in a variety of liveries. Volvo Olympians still appeared.
Volvo B5TL - Wright Gemini 3 (6308 - 6314) with fleet livered Volvo B9TLs as spares, though anything could appear like Solars and Citaros.
Volvo B11RT - Caetano Levante - Intrim vehicles until the Elite-i were ready for service.
Volvo B11RT - Plaxton Elite-i (7150 - 7156) with various Volvo / Caetano Levante Coaches acting as spares, along with Wright Streetdeck.
ADL Enviro 400MMC - The next residents of the A19 Express?

(21 Dec 2021, 9:45 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Coaches were found unsuitable due to extended loading times and accessibility so the allocation for X9 / X10 was streamlined into one vehicle type starting with....
Volvo B7TL - Wright Eclipse Gemini 1 (3941-3943 / 3962 - 3965) with Volvo Olympian - N-C Palatine 2s being the ever reliable spares.
Volvo B9TL - Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (6043 - 6048) spare was B7TL 3963 in Tyne Tees Express livery and 3964 in a variety of liveries. Volvo Olympians still appeared.
Volvo B5TL - Wright Gemini 3 (6308 - 6314) with fleet livered Volvo B9TLs as spares, though anything could appear like Solars and Citaros.
Volvo B11RT - Caetano Levante - Intrim vehicles until the Elite-i were ready for service.
Volvo B11RT - Plaxton Elite-i (7150 - 7156) with various Volvo / Caetano Levante Coaches acting as spares, along with Wright Streetdeck.
ADL Enviro 400MMC - The next residents of the A19 Express?

Out of all of that, arguably the best vehicles of the last 16 years on the route were the B7TLs. The B9s that succeeded them were dead after about 5 years, the B5s were dead on their feet early doors, and the Elites didn't work particularly well either...

(21 Dec 2021, 10:14 pm)mb134 wrote Out of all of that, arguably the best vehicles of the last 16 years on the route were the B7TLs. The B9s that succeeded them were dead after about 5 years, the B5s were dead on their feet early doors, and the Elites didn't work particularly well either...

And the ones which were the best supply buses were the Olympian 2, tbh they would probs last longer than the elites, or the B5's on the X21 and X10

(21 Dec 2021, 9:45 pm)Rapidsnap wrote X10 allocations from when GNE took full responibility of the route....
Leyland National Mk2, MCW Metrobus Mk2 or Leyland Olympian / ECW

Those Superliner liveried MCWs were immense. Felt like they could take off at any point. Those Spectras were pretty special too once they got going.

The best vehicles for the X10 for me would be joint between Leyland Olympian - ECW and Volvo Olympian - N-C Palatine 2. Honestly if those Palatine 2s had DP seating, they would have pipped the Olympians.

The Volvo B7TLs were ok but age caught up to them quicker due to their smaller engine (similar can be said of B9TL and B5TL). As for the Spectras, they were good to except they were hindered by their gearing which was more intended for London routes which meant it took longer for them to get into their stride.

It's a difficult route to get the right vehicle for these days, and the closest GNE has got is one 6 Cylinder Streetdeck, though from travelling on the Enviro 400MMCs on the X84, they are a pretty good shout, probably why one was on loan to Riverside last month.

If the X9 is gone for good, and the X10 does parts of both route, they should renumber the service to X19 to highlight it that it runs up the A19 serving locations along said route.

But I wouldn't be suprised if the numbers of OAP / Disabled passes do pick up again with the introduction of the double deckers with the vehicles being 100% easier to board than the coaches. A lot of the time old people only want to use a coach for when they are going on their holidays or on a day trip. Not to go shopping with their shopping trolley.