(29 Dec 2021, 12:51 am)jason85 wrote Had a look at the timetable for 1 Feb and it seems a 6 min turnaround in Middlesbrough. The old TTX had 10 minutes and was often very late leaving, hence the 25 min turnaround in 2017. Could lead to some problems. 

Can’t help wondering what happens when numbers increase again (which they will, especially when Northern are cancelling services so frequently)

Just looked at the timetable myself and the turnaround appears to be 16 not 6 - gets in at :54 and leaves :10

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the X9 could return in the future if things picked up. It's already been mentioned that there are spare MMC's at Consett or some could be ordered new in the future if things really were on the up. While these changes are 'permanent' as opposed to a temporary measure, it doesn't mean they won't be reversed in the future - we've seen plenty of other service changes made by GNE that end up being reversed - the changes in South Tyneside with the stretch from Jarrow to Lukes Lane as part of the 9 springs to mind.

You'd think if the demand returns then the service will too - GNE have probably held out running it as long as they can at a loss for the sake of consistency but it's gotta be acknowledged that covid repercussions will happen for years to come, if not permanently with regard to working from home etc.

(29 Dec 2021, 1:19 am)peter wrote Just looked at the timetable myself and the turnaround appears to be 16 not 6 - gets in at :54 and leaves :10

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the X9 could return in the future if things picked up. It's already been mentioned that there are spare MMC's at Consett or some could be ordered new in the future if things really were on the up. While these changes are 'permanent' as opposed to a temporary measure, it doesn't mean they won't be reversed in the future - we've seen plenty of other service changes made by GNE that end up being reversed - the changes in South Tyneside with the stretch from Jarrow to Lukes Lane as part of the 9 springs to mind.

You'd think if the demand returns then the service will too - GNE have probably held out running it as long as they can at a loss for the sake of consistency but it's gotta be acknowledged that covid repercussions will happen for years to come, if not permanently with regard to working from home etc.

I always preferred the X9 over the X10 if I could choose between the two. 

Forgetting about leasing costs, vehicle reliability, driver availability, roadworks on the A19 and Covid for a moment, I've got to ask the question about the decision to get rid of the X9 temporarily during the pandemic and look at the part that decision has made on getting rid of it permanently.

Consolidation in to one vehicle and reducing costs may look good on paper, but I can't see it paying off longer term.

(29 Dec 2021, 1:29 am)Andreos1 wrote Consolidation in to one vehicle and reducing costs may look good on paper, but I can't see it paying off longer term.

I agree with this tbh, It has put me off using the X10, unless I get it from Newcastle or Middlesbrough, or after 7pm. I would much rather get the train as I can imagine some of those buses getting pretty full.

(29 Dec 2021, 12:51 am)jason85 wrote Had a look at the timetable for 1 Feb and it seems a 6 min turnaround in Middlesbrough. The old TTX had 10 minutes and was often very late leaving, hence the 25 min turnaround in 2017. Could lead to some problems. 

Can’t help wondering what happens when numbers increase again (which they will, especially when Northern are cancelling services so frequently)

I might be wrong, but I'm fairly sure it's 16 minutes at both ends?

That's still fairly decent. Some of Arriva Alnwick 'X' routes have less at both ends.

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(29 Dec 2021, 1:29 am)Andreos1 wrote I always preferred the X9 over the X10 if I could choose between the two. 

Forgetting about leasing costs, vehicle reliability, driver availability, roadworks on the A19 and Covid for a moment, I've got to ask the question about the decision to get rid of the X9 temporarily during the pandemic and look at the part that decision has made on getting rid of it permanently.

Consolidation in to one vehicle and reducing costs may look good on paper, but I can't see it paying off longer term.

It's not something GNE would've done without much consideration.

Times have changed and GNE need to adapt accordingly. And that doesn't just go for the X9/X10 or cutting other services where the demand has eased, but maybe actually exploiting other changes to travel pattern demands etc and potentially capitalising.

It’s a serious downgrade for the people that use that use those services between Newcastle and Hexham. I wonder if they’ll rectify it in a future order like E200MMCs or something similar.


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(29 Dec 2021, 1:19 am)peter wrote Just looked at the timetable myself and the turnaround appears to be 16 not 6 - gets in at :54 and leaves :10

My mistake, apologies

(29 Dec 2021, 7:25 pm)jason85 wrote My mistake, apologies

No worries, easily made! Must say I prefer the pdf timetables to flicking between inbound and outbound on the GNE site!

Has anyone been on the x10 since the X9 had been withdrawn, what are the passenger numbers like, I was at Heworth the other day and the coach looked pretty full going both ways. 

I saw on FB on one of the GNE Posts about the service reductions and someone said that a X10 drove past them...not sure if this was due to the capacity or whether they put their hand out at the wrong stop.

(29 Dec 2021, 10:28 pm)Bus3888 wrote Has anyone been on the x10 since the X9 had been withdrawn, what are the passenger numbers like, I was at Heworth the other day and the coach looked pretty full going both ways. 

I saw on FB on one of the GNE Posts about the service reductions and someone said that a X10 drove past them...not sure if this was due to the capacity or whether they put their hand out at the wrong stop.

I am not sure what passenger numbers are like but apparently on the coaches there is an at-seat service where the hostess serves you bacon sandwiches


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(29 Dec 2021, 10:32 pm)Dan wrote I am not sure what passenger numbers are like but apparently on the coaches there is an at-seat service where the hostess serves you bacon sandwiches


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I do love a good bacon sandwich. What time are they served? Do the pigs sneak onto the coach after being banned?

I not sure Go north east really know what they are doing here. I have used the X10 a few times this year and seen it at Dalton Park while waiting for 23 a few times and it always seems busy.
I agree as well I don’t like the coaches have been on it at different with both my friend and my daughter and it was agreed they are just awful and not very good for people with disabilities so I welcome the return to double deck buses as will several other people. So I don’t think getting rid of the X9 and reducing the service to every hour is a good idea as I can see it getting capacity before it even gets to Stockton or Heworth. They really need to rethink this.

(30 Dec 2021, 1:54 am)col87 wrote I not sure Go north east really know what they are doing here. I have used the X10 a few times this year and seen it at Dalton Park while waiting for 23 a few times and it always seems busy.
I agree as well I don’t like the coaches have been on it at different with both my friend and my daughter and it was agreed they are just awful and not very good for people with disabilities so I welcome the return to double deck buses as will several other people. So I don’t think getting rid of the X9 and reducing the service to every hour is a good idea as I can see it getting capacity before it even gets to Stockton or Heworth. They really need to rethink this.

They can always up the frequency back to half hourly if needed, but don't the E400s have a higher capacity than the coaches?

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(30 Dec 2021, 2:27 am)streetdeckfan wrote They can always up the frequency back to half hourly if needed, but don't the E400s have a higher capacity than the coaches?

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They might be able to...but what would they use there isn't enough spare same spec E400's

(30 Dec 2021, 2:27 am)streetdeckfan wrote They can always up the frequency back to half hourly if needed, but don't the E400s have a higher capacity than the coaches?

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66 seated capacity on coaches going off the fleet list, while the E400s have 73.

It's not unheard-of for dupes to be put on when high passenger loads are expected, such as match days.

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(30 Dec 2021, 2:30 am)Bus3888 wrote They might be able to...but what would they use there isn't enough spare same spec E400's

6377 will no doubt be the spare. I'm sure GNE will love to have the headache of sourcing buses for an increase in the PVR if demand returns.

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(30 Dec 2021, 2:30 am)Bus3888 wrote They might be able to...but what would they use there isn't enough spare same spec E400's

I'm too lazy to scroll back up and read, but isn't there talks about there being other spare E400s? Maybe I'm wrong though

(30 Dec 2021, 2:42 am)6049 wrote 66 seated capacity on coaches going off the fleet list, while the E400s have 73.

It's not unheard-of for dupes to be put on when high passenger loads are expected, such as match days.

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So that puts them at around 55% of the seated capacity per hour. However, if we include standing, then it's at 80% of the total previous capacity, which I believe is around where passenger numbers are at compared to pre-covid.
I'd guess that for the X10, it's probably somewhere around 50% of pre-covid numbers for them to be willing to drop the capacity by that much. And, to be fair, whenever I've used the X9/X10 with the coaches, I've never seen it more than half full!

(30 Dec 2021, 2:51 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'm too lazy to scroll back up and read, but isn't there talks about there being other spare E400s? Maybe I'm wrong though


So that puts them at around 55% of the seated capacity per hour. However, if we include standing, then it's at 80% of the total previous capacity, which I believe is around where passenger numbers are at compared to pre-covid.
I'd guess that for the X10, it's probably somewhere around 50% of pre-covid numbers for them to be willing to drop the capacity by that much. And, to be fair, whenever I've used the X9/X10 with the coaches, I've never seen it more than half full!

I was at Gateshead the other week and X10 stand was packed (friday night) and the 19:10 or 19:20 apparently was full. And Spare E400 I think 6338-6340 are but they have different tables, you could use 6337/6377/6335.

(30 Dec 2021, 1:54 am)col87 wrote I not sure Go north east really know what they are doing here. I have used the X10 a few times this year and seen it at Dalton Park while waiting for 23 a few times and it always seems busy. 
I agree as well I don’t like the coaches have been on it at different with both my friend and my daughter and it was agreed they are just awful and not very good for people with disabilities so I welcome the return to double deck buses as will several other people. So I don’t think getting rid of the X9 and reducing the service to every hour is a good idea as I can see it getting capacity before it even gets to Stockton or Heworth.  They really need to rethink this.

I really don't think that's a fair comment which looks at the bigger picture. That's an isolated example of one journey or a few journeys.

Surely Go North East know how many people are travelling on each service, and what capacity is required?

With 'both' 6336 & 37 soon to be now available as Consett spares, 6338-40 with a slight fleet re-jigg (to ensure suitable Euro 6 spares at Consett) could be deployed should demand increase to ever re-introduce the X9 in the future. That however is a long way off.

6377 or a B9TL will likely stand in as a spare should any of 6352-55 become unavailable.

(30 Dec 2021, 10:11 am)L469 YVK wrote With 'both' 6336 & 37 soon to be now available as Consett spares, 6338-40 with a slight fleet re-jigg (to ensure suitable Euro 6 spares at Consett) could be deployed should demand increase to ever re-introduce the X9 in the future. That however is a long way off.

6377 or a B9TL will likely stand in as a spare should any of 6352-55 become unavailable.

Nah I think the X9 is done for. It's been withdrawn way to many times now and so might as well keep it withdrawn

(30 Dec 2021, 10:42 am)Train8261 wrote Nah I think the X9 is done for. It's been withdrawn way to many times now and so might as well keep it withdrawn

X9 could maybe return one day but if it were to happen it won't be any time soon, be years down the line by which time everything will have been moved around and services changed a hundred times so its pointless suggesting such and such a bus will go on a service that ain't returning any time soon.

I think X84 (684) will be stuck with Versas, especially if my theory that the 684 will interwork with the 680/688 turns out to be true or at very least until whenever the new tenders for the Hexham services are awarded.

(30 Dec 2021, 10:11 am)L469 YVK wrote With 'both' 6336 & 37 soon to be now available as Consett spares, 6338-40 with a slight fleet re-jigg (to ensure suitable Euro 6 spares at Consett) could be deployed should demand increase to ever re-introduce the X9 in the future. That however is a long way off.

6377 or a B9TL will likely stand in as a spare should any of 6352-55 become unavailable.

How would you re-jig them?

Is there anything else you would repaint if the opportunity presented itself?

(30 Dec 2021, 11:33 am)MurdnunoC wrote How would you re-jig them?

Is there anything else you would repaint if the opportunity presented itself?

All Consett would need is 6336/37 (which they've got) plus 2-3 other Euro 6 deckers (don't need to be low height) as spares and that would then release 6338-40

(30 Dec 2021, 12:08 pm)L469 YVK wrote All Consett would need is 6336/37 (which they've got) plus 2-3 other Euro 6 deckers (don't need to be low height) as spares and that would then release 6338-40

But the 6338-40 are slightly lower spec, table wise they don't have the pull out tables. I know it is minor but. Also I think 6377 and 6337 would be a good spares, however I was on it i can't remember when using 6335 on both the X10 and X21 and it seems to be working really well with the motor ways so that could be a option.

(30 Dec 2021, 12:42 pm)Bus3888 wrote But the 6338-40 are slightly lower spec, table wise they don't have the pull out tables. I know it is minor but. Also I think 6377 and 6337 would be a good spares, however I was on it i can't remember when using 6335 on both the X10 and X21 and it seems to be working really well with the motor ways so that could be a option.

Are you just plucking random fleet numbers out the air at this stage? Three completely different vehicle types there, one of which has already proven itself to be a poor choice on the route you're suggesting it covers for...

(30 Dec 2021, 2:32 pm)mb134 wrote Are you just plucking random fleet numbers out the air at this stage? Three completely different vehicle types there, one of which has already proven itself to be a poor choice on the route you're suggesting it covers for...

I agree. Irrespective of minor differences, 6338-40 would likely be the natural choice if they decided to bring back the X9.

Spares, 6377 or a B9TL is more than fine for that given purpose.

(30 Dec 2021, 12:08 pm)L469 YVK wrote All Consett would need is 6336/37 (which they've got) plus 2-3 other Euro 6 deckers (don't need to be low height) as spares and that would then release 6338-40

we lost 6337 as that went to act as the spare bus for the X84/85.

We are gaining Under Euro 6 Buses such as the B5LH's and losing Streetdecks from 6302-7. probably gonna lose 6301. However i have seen on bustimes.org that we (Consett) may be keeping 3963, the Volvo B7TL Wright Gemini as it was caught doing the Red Kite Ranger 47 to Consett. However, this could of been a ticketer swap.
we will have lost all of our Charcoal spares.
6336 - Possibly to be a spare for the X10
6337 - Spare for the X84/85
6376 - Washington General Spare
6377 - Chester-Le-Street for the X21.

Would be ideal to have 6334 & 5 to trial on the Red Kite Ranger 47/47A or the X-Lines X45 & X46 or really just become a General Spare to see how they would run on the routes they were gonna be apart of in the original X-Lines Investment plan.

Consett could do with some ''New'' Spare buses like Optare Versas or 2005/6 Reg Geminis like 3963 if they were allocated onto the 16/16A or X5/X15. So that Euro 5 Buses can still work on longer whilst avoiding LEZ's Such as Newcastle's soon. But obviously its not gonna very easy to strategize for what depot get's what bus as Go North East have got to look at which Vehicles need to go where like the movement of 6942 the Ex GAL Plaxton President which can do the Odd 56 so it would need either moved or stay at Deptford but can't do the CityRider 56. Another example of the Scania Omnicitys which had to be moved to Riverside to replace the Euro 5 Wright Streetlites but then they will have to work out what buses can replace those Omnicitys when they are withdrawn along with the Omnidekkas by 2023 if that is still the plan.

i know i went off topic there but it is about how to plan vehicle movement's and what routes they are allowed on. It cant be that bus you want come to your depot as it would need Strict allocations so like the Euro 4 Voyager Scania N270UD OmniDekkas which will have to become a spare for the 26/50 as it will not be allowed to Enter Newcastle for free and it will have to be the route GNE takes to pay to have their Under Euro 6 Vehicles in Newcastle for about 10 Minutes or so for them to leave and then repeat that process when it comes back which will cost more. So thats why buses like the former Coaster B5LH's got took off the Coaster 1 and got replaced by the Daimler Euro 6 Streetlites as the B5's are Euro 5 and like i said the Streetlites are Euro 6. Its not that GNE don't like the bus on the route its that they need to prepare for the LEZ.

(30 Dec 2021, 5:17 pm)KingSlayerRBLX wrote we lost 6337 as that went to act as the spare bus for the X84/85.

We are gaining Under Euro 6 Buses such as the B5LH's and losing Streetdecks from 6302-7. probably gonna lose 6301. However i have seen on bustimes.org that we (Consett) may be keeping 3963, the Volvo B7TL Wright Gemini as it was caught doing the Red Kite Ranger 47 to Consett. However, this could of been a ticketer swap.
we will have lost all of our Charcoal spares.
6336 - Possibly to be a spare for the X10
6337 - Spare for the X84/85
6376 - Washington General Spare
6377 - Chester-Le-Street for the X21.

Would be ideal to have 6334 & 5 to trial on the Red Kite Ranger 47/47A or the X-Lines X45 & X46 or really just become a General Spare to see how they would run on the routes they were gonna be apart of in the original X-Lines Investment plan.

Neither 6336 or 6337 will be required at Hexham after the 30th January due to the X84/X85 being withdrawn in their current form. The revised X10 doesn't need a low height decker and can be covered by 6377 or a B9TL.

Therefore, the most natural option (unless GNE have other plans) will be to put both of them at Consett where low height Euro 6 deckers are needed as spares.

Volvo B5TLs were never part of the original XLines investment plan, only StreetDecks and E400MMCs. There were plans for the B5TLs when on the X9/X10 to eventually be cascaded on to the X84/X85 when the intention was to purchase more suitable deckers for the X9/X10. However, COVID changed all the original plans.

i know i went off topic there but it is about how to plan vehicle movement's and what routes they are allowed on. It cant be that bus you want come to your depot as it would need Strict allocations so like the Euro 4 Voyager Scania N270UD OmniDekkas which will have to become a spare for the 26/50 as it will not be allowed to Enter Newcastle for free and it will have to be the route GNE takes to pay to have their Under Euro 6 Vehicles in Newcastle for about 10 Minutes or so for them to leave and then repeat that process when it comes back which will cost more. So thats why buses like the former Coaster B5LH's got took off the Coaster 1 and got replaced by the Daimler Euro 6 Streetlites as the B5's are Euro 5 and like i said the Streetlites are Euro 6. Its not that GNE don't like the bus on the route its that they need to prepare for the LEZ.

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For this, for the X1/56 with them being every 15 mins respectively they could just turn around at gateshead same with the 21 and make sure passengers get on the right service. 

The only issue I am thinking of is if that X1 is going to Peterlee or Dalton park, or the 21 Durham or Brandon.

(30 Dec 2021, 5:17 pm)KingSlayerRBLX wrote Consett could do with some ''New'' Spare buses like Optare Versas or 2005/6 Reg Geminis like 3963 if they were allocated onto the 16/16A or X5/X15. 

I don't think there's any issue with 'new' spare buses at Consett. In theory they'll end up with 6064/69/70, 6336/8/9/40, I reckon one of 6356-63 will be spare with the X45/6 PVR decrease and then it looks like 5409/10 might stay for the 78 - not really sure why they would need non-standardised Versa's on top of all that

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(30 Dec 2021, 10:59 am)Jimmi wrote X9 could maybe return one day but if it were to happen it won't be any time soon, be years down the line by which time everything will have been moved around and services changed a hundred times so its pointless suggesting such and such a bus will go on a service that ain't returning any time soon.

I think X84 (684) will be stuck with Versas, especially if my theory that the 684 will interwork with the 680/688 turns out to be true or at very least until whenever the new tenders for the Hexham services are awarded.

I had the same theory about Versa's interworking on the 680/684/688 - with X84 taking over an hour it would make sense and the 680/688 already interwork with the 687 using Versa's (with it being said elsewhere the 687 isn't going to do so anymore).

(30 Dec 2021, 5:42 pm)Bus3888 wrote --------------------------------
For this, for the X1/56 with them being every 15 mins respectively they could just turn around at gateshead same with the 21 and make sure passengers get on the right service. 

The only issue I am thinking of is if that X1 is going to Peterlee or Dalton park, or the 21 Durham or Brandon.

And I strongly doubt GNE would ever do that. That is why they're backfilling accordingly to ensure there are enough Euro 6 spares to go around.